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Re: "Partisan" comments

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  • Terry Lubka
    ... wrote: Do the American forces get this treatment when they come up here? (I know there are a couple of spectators on this list) Do
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 2, 2003
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      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Kevin & Allison Windsor
      <kevin.windsor@s...> wrote:
      Do the American forces get this treatment when they come up here?
      (I know there are a couple of spectators on this list) Do Canadians
      who portray US forces get this?

      Kevin,
      My group (all Cdn) portray the 25th US. rarely get boo'd. Usually
      when it does happen it's due to the commentator getting the audience
      to boo the "invaders". The crowd when doing this is doing it in fun
      and no malice is meant. I've never really experienced outright ill
      will hissing and booing from the crowd.



      Terry
    • Tom Fournier
      Hi Kevin I am not challenging, merely seeking clarification ...good natured booing in the spirit of the event or nasty, don t like you booing? My experience is
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 2, 2003
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        Hi Kevin

        I am not challenging, merely seeking clarification ...good natured
        booing in the spirit of the event or nasty, don't like you booing?

        My experience is limited to my just completed first season of re-
        enacting but it did encompass events south of the border at Fort
        Meigs and Mississinewa. There would be a few jokes about the "enemy"
        but typically the public at both events were extremely welcoming and
        gracious. I was really struck by how appreciative they were that a
        group of Canadians would travel so far to help them celebrate their
        local event and local history. At both events, it really made the
        trip worth while!

        Tom, 41st Regiment


        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Kevin & Allison Windsor
        <kevin.windsor@s...> wrote:
        > I have noticed that at events south of the border I (we) usually
        get booed going off or coming on the field, and at one event I was
        asked why a good American would want
        > to be a red coat. (he was surprised when I told him we were
        Canadians)
        > Do the American forces get this treatment when they come up here?
        (I know there are a couple of spectators on this list) Do Canadians
        who portray US forces get this? I
        > know we never have when we switch teams, but it could be because we
        are good looking!!
        >
        > Kevin
        > 89th
      • Peter Catley
        To broaden the perspective a little, in the UK we find that the public do sometimes take an anti-French attitude at the Battlefield but rarely or never away
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 2, 2003
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          To broaden the perspective a little, in the UK we find that the public do
          sometimes take an anti-French attitude at the Battlefield but rarely or
          never away from the field so I've not heard of anti-sentiments being
          expressed around the French camps although you do get the occasional
          jingoistic comments when talking to members of the public.



          I have never knowingly heard any spontaneous anti-Redcoat reactions when
          abroad, even in the Republic of Ireland, we did an event in 1998 at
          Collooney, in County Sligo which is pretty close to the boarder with
          Northern Ireland. The reactions to us in most European countries is
          excellent, I have often thought that this is mainly due to the fact that
          most crowds are used to the darker uniforms of the Imperial army and the red
          and our flowing Colours do make a strong contrast. However the strongest
          visual, impression is always made by the cavalry, their uniforms, horses
          and general appearance is stunning (but don't they know it :-))



          The role of the Commentators is often significant. We come across one chap
          in Northern France who is extremely rude (and inaccurate!) about the British
          Army and the British people, eventually we got one of our French speaking
          colleagues to talk to the crowd over the PA and he has been noticeably
          better since then! But the language does cause us difficulties. In the UK we
          try to be very careful to ensure that the crowd get a balanced view of the
          action and the history and avoid anti-French rhetoric. The difficulty is
          always avoiding giving the impression that the Reds are always good and the
          Blues always bad.



          However in France one section of the British Army have been raised to
          Sainthood and that is the Highlanders, but only those in kilts I'm afraid
          Benton. It is quite entertaining to watch the faces of the public when they
          discover that most of our Highlanders come from either the South of England
          (The men of Kent!) or from the Netherlands!!



          Cheers now.



          P**







          -----Original Message-----
          From: Terry Lubka [mailto:tlubka@...]
          Sent: 02 November 2003 16:06
          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: "Partisan" comments



          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Kevin & Allison Windsor
          <kevin.windsor@s...> wrote:
          Do the American forces get this treatment when they come up here?
          (I know there are a couple of spectators on this list) Do Canadians
          who portray US forces get this?

          Kevin,
          My group (all Cdn) portray the 25th US. rarely get boo'd. Usually
          when it does happen it's due to the commentator getting the audience
          to boo the "invaders". The crowd when doing this is doing it in fun
          and no malice is meant. I've never really experienced outright ill
          will hissing and booing from the crowd.



          Terry






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          square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
          square miles...

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        • Peter Catley
          I agree with Tom, I certainly don t mind the public taking sides in good fun, but occasionally the sentiment slips a bit over the line and we have to do our
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 2, 2003
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            I agree with Tom,



            I certainly don't mind the public taking sides in good fun, but occasionally
            the sentiment slips a bit over the line and we have to do our best to
            prevent that.



            Generally the public are very appreciative of the efforts we make to bring
            our re-enactments to them and we were made especially welcome by the Irish
            when we took 70 redcoats to Collooney in Co. Sligo in 1998, the criac was
            superb. On the Continent of Europe the public make clear their appreciation
            of our efforts to go to their events. Perhaps the best reactions we get are
            in Spain where re-enacting is little known, at A Coruna in 1999 the crowd
            was reported by the papers as being over 35,000 and the British column
            returning to barracks, a march of perhaps a mile and a half, it was only the
            Colour party that retuned (complaining bitterly that they were "on duty")
            The rest had disappeared into the bars along the way at the invitation of
            the locals, such indiscipline is of course totally authentic!!



            Perhaps my best story was from Mississinewa in 2000. The public were very
            appreciative not to say staggered to find that a small number of us had
            travelled by air so soon after the 11th September 2000 attack, however one
            teacher asked me how often I practiced my English accent? I explained to her
            it wasn't an accent merely the way English was spoken, but she refused to
            believe me and suggested to her class that I was from Texas and was keeping
            up my in role character. Well, at that point a colleague joined me and asked
            a question and I replied colloquially, and the kids were convinced, but I'm
            not sure she was :-)



            Cheers




            P**



            -----Original Message-----
            From: Tom Fournier [mailto:tom4141fournier@...]
            Sent: 02 November 2003 16:51
            To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: "Partisan" comments



            Hi Kevin

            I am not challenging, merely seeking clarification ...good natured
            booing in the spirit of the event or nasty, don't like you booing?

            My experience is limited to my just completed first season of re-
            enacting but it did encompass events south of the border at Fort
            Meigs and Mississinewa. There would be a few jokes about the "enemy"
            but typically the public at both events were extremely welcoming and
            gracious. I was really struck by how appreciative they were that a
            group of Canadians would travel so far to help them celebrate their
            local event and local history. At both events, it really made the
            trip worth while!

            Tom, 41st Regiment


            --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Kevin & Allison Windsor
            <kevin.windsor@s...> wrote:
            > I have noticed that at events south of the border I (we) usually
            get booed going off or coming on the field, and at one event I was
            asked why a good American would want
            > to be a red coat. (he was surprised when I told him we were
            Canadians)
            > Do the American forces get this treatment when they come up here?
            (I know there are a couple of spectators on this list) Do Canadians
            who portray US forces get this? I
            > know we never have when we switch teams, but it could be because we
            are good looking!!
            >
            > Kevin
            > 89th







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            The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
            square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
            square miles...

            Unit Contact information for North America:
            ---------------------------------
            Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

            American Forces Unit Lisiting
            http://usforces1812.tripod.com

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
            <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Kevin & Allison Windsor
            I could have misunderstood, but it did seem like a don t like you. don t get me wrong, most are great people, but some are real red coat haters.
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 2, 2003
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              I could have misunderstood, but it did seem like a don't like you. don't get me wrong, most are great people, but some are real red coat haters.

              Tom Fournier wrote:

              > Hi Kevin
              >
              > I am not challenging, merely seeking clarification ...good natured
              > booing in the spirit of the event or nasty, don't like you booing?
            • ebclemson
              I would not be suprised that sometimes the crowd may boo,etc. It is human nature, if in jest and fun understandable, and if in hate, in ignorance but not
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 2, 2003
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                I would not be suprised that sometimes the crowd may boo,etc. It is human nature, if in jest and fun understandable, and if in hate, in ignorance but not suprising.

                In my civil War days, I was not only booed but physically attack while at an event in Arkansas, simply because I was talking to "Yanks". What was I thinking! <g>

                It may also depend on what event is being detected. Perhaps....maybe....the Americans would be booed if depicting the attack on York or reenacting the battle of Chippewa. Generally, most people respect the living historians from all sides.

                It is good to read Mike Mathews account at Fort Miegs, that even though the British were "invaders" that he was not booed.

                Dave Bennett

                1st U. States Infy.



                --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "PEGGY MATHEWS" <ciefranche21e@m...> wrote:
                > I remember at Crysler's Farm in '02 getting lustily booed by the public while marching with the US forces. Frankly didn't bother me one bit. We represented an invading force and the victory was something to be proud of, plus there was a cheerleader of sorts going up and down the rope line from what I heard. (I didn't see him.)
                >
                > Thanks to all the AWI "lobsterback" images and movies like "Patriot" we have nurtured and sustained a dislike for redcoats. At Fort Meigs last year I didn't notice the public showing such poor manners though.
                >
                > Michael M.
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Kevin & Allison Windsor
                > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 7:56 AM
                > Subject: [WarOf1812] "Partisan" comments
                >
                >
                > I have noticed that at events south of the border I (we) usually get booed going off or coming on the field, and at one event I was asked why a good American would want
                > to be a red coat. (he was surprised when I told him we were Canadians)
                > Do the American forces get this treatment when they come up here? (I know there are a couple of spectators on this list) Do Canadians who portray US forces get this? I
                > know we never have when we switch teams, but it could be because we are good looking!!
                >
                > Kevin
                > 89th
                >
                > hq93rd wrote:
                >
                > > What a novel concept!
                > > You mean I can now, and finally -- after too many years, look forward
                > > to attending events and not having snide comments and looks directed
                > > my way (and usually behind my back) simply because I (a born and bred
                > > USA-ian) wear a red uniform?
                >
                >
                >
                > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
                >
                > Unit Contact information for North America:
                > ---------------------------------
                > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                >
                > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • PEGGY MATHEWS
                Well actually I was in the American camp with Plauche s battalion, so may have missed some crowd reactions. However, I would have to say that in my experience
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 2, 2003
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                  Well actually I was in the American camp with Plauche's battalion, so may have missed some crowd reactions. However, I would have to say that in my experience the area fans are very knowledgeable and polite. That plus the fine way reenactors are treated there accounts for the ten hour drive I take one or two times each year.

                  Michael Mathews
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: ebclemson
                  To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 8:05 PM
                  Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: "Partisan" comments


                  (snip)
                  It is good to read Mike Mathews account at Fort Miegs, that even though the British were "invaders" that he was not booed.

                  Dave Bennett

                  1st U. States Infy.

                  (snip)

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Tracy
                  Kevin us spectators on the side lines sometimes boo the American forces and being a spectator we don t know if it an actual American or a cross dresser we boo
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 2, 2003
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                    Kevin us spectators on the side lines sometimes boo the American
                    forces and being a spectator we don't know if it an actual American
                    or a "cross dresser we boo in a jokingly tone of voice.
                    Tracy



                    --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Kevin & Allison Windsor
                    <kevin.windsor@s...> wrote:
                    > I have noticed that at events south of the border I (we) usually
                    get booed going off or coming on the field, and at one event I was
                    asked why a good American would want
                    > to be a red coat. (he was surprised when I told him we were
                    Canadians)
                    > Do the American forces get this treatment when they come up here?
                    (I know there are a couple of spectators on this list) Do Canadians
                    who portray US forces get this? I
                    > know we never have when we switch teams, but it could be because we
                    are good looking!!
                    >
                    > Kevin
                    > 89th
                    >
                    > hq93rd wrote:
                    >
                    > > What a novel concept!
                    > > You mean I can now, and finally -- after too many years, look
                    forward
                    > > to attending events and not having snide comments and looks
                    directed
                    > > my way (and usually behind my back) simply because I (a born and
                    bred
                    > > USA-ian) wear a red uniform?
                  • hm95thfoot
                    ... American ... At War of 1812 events we have always, as American citizens celebrating the accomplishments and memories of those who fought on the side of the
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 3, 2003
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                      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Tracy" <tracyforsyth@h...> wrote:
                      > Kevin us spectators on the side lines sometimes boo the American
                      > forces and being a spectator we don't know if it an actual
                      American
                      > or a "cross dresser we boo in a jokingly tone of voice.
                      > Tracy
                      >


                      At War of 1812 events we have always, as American citizens
                      celebrating the accomplishments and memories of those who fought on
                      the side of the Crown, been treated with the utmost courtesy, at
                      least by the site staffs and visitors. The people at Ft. Niagara,
                      Ft. Erie and Ft. George, as well as the NPS staff at Chalmette
                      Battlefield stand out in my mind as being especially courteous and
                      respectful.

                      Every once in a while we encounter a somewhat misinformed visitor
                      (rifle units tend to attract those....), whom we politely let ramble
                      on, but most, just about all, really, were tickled pink that we,
                      like all the other reenactors, had come to these places. When they
                      learned where we were from, some were quite astounded that we had
                      come so far, and were all the more appreciative as a result.

                      On the Rev War side, if I may, it was especially delicious irony to
                      be in French Quebec City and having les citoyens go absolutely mad
                      in cheering us British redcoats a few years ago. Something I thought
                      I'd never live to see. (Of course, they might have been cheering us
                      because "we" saved them from the American invaders in 1775....)

                      RWF
                    • Larry Lozon
                      From: Peter Catley The role of the Commentators is often significant. ________________ I have found, since doing the narration
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 3, 2003
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                        From: "Peter Catley" <peter.catley@...>

                        The role of the Commentators is often significant.

                        ________________

                        I have found, since doing the narration at a number of
                        events that the commentator's remarks should be equal
                        about both sides and remember where you are ......

                        It is not nice to pee in the other guys sandbox!

                        I also make sure that they understand in order to have a
                        battle you need an enemy and some of the enemy are actually
                        "YOUR GUYS" cross dressing.

                        This usually deters the cat calls. Also with the march past at
                        the end of the tactical, especially if I can help it, both sides
                        receive good rounds of applause.

                        Larry Lozon
                      • HQ93rd@aol.com
                        ... My dear Peter, Are you insinuating I do not have, nor wear a kilt? Tish tosh! I lead the Highland Brigade on the death marches of 1990 and 1995 through
                        Message 11 of 13 , Nov 6, 2003
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                          In a message dated 2/11/2003 9:47:29 AM, peter.catley@... writes:


                          > However in France one section of the British Army have been raised to
                          > Sainthood and that is the Highlanders, but only those in kilts I'm afraid
                          > Benton.
                          >

                          My dear Peter,
                          Are you insinuating I do not have, nor wear a kilt?
                          Tish tosh!
                          I lead the Highland Brigade on the "death marches" of 1990 and 1995 through
                          the ways and backways of Waterloo and Braine A'llude (sic) clad in kilt,
                          sporran and kilt-hose. Being at the head of the column I heard first off the
                          ecstatic cries of "Eccosais!!" from the locals, and watched the glasses of beer
                          appear out of pubs and houses to be offered the lads. I was also present at Boulgne
                          in '95, seeing more of the same.
                          Now, as I follow regs and as an Highland officer wear trousers and boots in
                          the field, does not mean I know nothing of kilts!

                          Yours, most bombastically,
                          B
                          93rd SHRoFLHU
                          THE Thin Red Line
                          www.93rdhighlanders.com



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