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Re: [WarOf1812] "Partisan" comments

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  • PEGGY MATHEWS
    I remember at Crysler s Farm in 02 getting lustily booed by the public while marching with the US forces. Frankly didn t bother me one bit. We represented
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 2, 2003
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      I remember at Crysler's Farm in '02 getting lustily booed by the public while marching with the US forces. Frankly didn't bother me one bit. We represented an invading force and the victory was something to be proud of, plus there was a cheerleader of sorts going up and down the rope line from what I heard. (I didn't see him.)

      Thanks to all the AWI "lobsterback" images and movies like "Patriot" we have nurtured and sustained a dislike for redcoats. At Fort Meigs last year I didn't notice the public showing such poor manners though.

      Michael M.
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Kevin & Allison Windsor
      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 7:56 AM
      Subject: [WarOf1812] "Partisan" comments


      I have noticed that at events south of the border I (we) usually get booed going off or coming on the field, and at one event I was asked why a good American would want
      to be a red coat. (he was surprised when I told him we were Canadians)
      Do the American forces get this treatment when they come up here? (I know there are a couple of spectators on this list) Do Canadians who portray US forces get this? I
      know we never have when we switch teams, but it could be because we are good looking!!

      Kevin
      89th

      hq93rd wrote:

      > What a novel concept!
      > You mean I can now, and finally -- after too many years, look forward
      > to attending events and not having snide comments and looks directed
      > my way (and usually behind my back) simply because I (a born and bred
      > USA-ian) wear a red uniform?



      The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

      Unit Contact information for North America:
      ---------------------------------
      Crown Forces Unit Listing:
      http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

      American Forces Unit Lisiting
      http://usforces1812.tripod.com

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    • Terry Lubka
      ... wrote: Do the American forces get this treatment when they come up here? (I know there are a couple of spectators on this list) Do
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 2, 2003
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        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Kevin & Allison Windsor
        <kevin.windsor@s...> wrote:
        Do the American forces get this treatment when they come up here?
        (I know there are a couple of spectators on this list) Do Canadians
        who portray US forces get this?

        Kevin,
        My group (all Cdn) portray the 25th US. rarely get boo'd. Usually
        when it does happen it's due to the commentator getting the audience
        to boo the "invaders". The crowd when doing this is doing it in fun
        and no malice is meant. I've never really experienced outright ill
        will hissing and booing from the crowd.



        Terry
      • Tom Fournier
        Hi Kevin I am not challenging, merely seeking clarification ...good natured booing in the spirit of the event or nasty, don t like you booing? My experience is
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 2, 2003
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          Hi Kevin

          I am not challenging, merely seeking clarification ...good natured
          booing in the spirit of the event or nasty, don't like you booing?

          My experience is limited to my just completed first season of re-
          enacting but it did encompass events south of the border at Fort
          Meigs and Mississinewa. There would be a few jokes about the "enemy"
          but typically the public at both events were extremely welcoming and
          gracious. I was really struck by how appreciative they were that a
          group of Canadians would travel so far to help them celebrate their
          local event and local history. At both events, it really made the
          trip worth while!

          Tom, 41st Regiment


          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Kevin & Allison Windsor
          <kevin.windsor@s...> wrote:
          > I have noticed that at events south of the border I (we) usually
          get booed going off or coming on the field, and at one event I was
          asked why a good American would want
          > to be a red coat. (he was surprised when I told him we were
          Canadians)
          > Do the American forces get this treatment when they come up here?
          (I know there are a couple of spectators on this list) Do Canadians
          who portray US forces get this? I
          > know we never have when we switch teams, but it could be because we
          are good looking!!
          >
          > Kevin
          > 89th
        • Peter Catley
          To broaden the perspective a little, in the UK we find that the public do sometimes take an anti-French attitude at the Battlefield but rarely or never away
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 2, 2003
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            To broaden the perspective a little, in the UK we find that the public do
            sometimes take an anti-French attitude at the Battlefield but rarely or
            never away from the field so I've not heard of anti-sentiments being
            expressed around the French camps although you do get the occasional
            jingoistic comments when talking to members of the public.



            I have never knowingly heard any spontaneous anti-Redcoat reactions when
            abroad, even in the Republic of Ireland, we did an event in 1998 at
            Collooney, in County Sligo which is pretty close to the boarder with
            Northern Ireland. The reactions to us in most European countries is
            excellent, I have often thought that this is mainly due to the fact that
            most crowds are used to the darker uniforms of the Imperial army and the red
            and our flowing Colours do make a strong contrast. However the strongest
            visual, impression is always made by the cavalry, their uniforms, horses
            and general appearance is stunning (but don't they know it :-))



            The role of the Commentators is often significant. We come across one chap
            in Northern France who is extremely rude (and inaccurate!) about the British
            Army and the British people, eventually we got one of our French speaking
            colleagues to talk to the crowd over the PA and he has been noticeably
            better since then! But the language does cause us difficulties. In the UK we
            try to be very careful to ensure that the crowd get a balanced view of the
            action and the history and avoid anti-French rhetoric. The difficulty is
            always avoiding giving the impression that the Reds are always good and the
            Blues always bad.



            However in France one section of the British Army have been raised to
            Sainthood and that is the Highlanders, but only those in kilts I'm afraid
            Benton. It is quite entertaining to watch the faces of the public when they
            discover that most of our Highlanders come from either the South of England
            (The men of Kent!) or from the Netherlands!!



            Cheers now.



            P**







            -----Original Message-----
            From: Terry Lubka [mailto:tlubka@...]
            Sent: 02 November 2003 16:06
            To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: "Partisan" comments



            --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Kevin & Allison Windsor
            <kevin.windsor@s...> wrote:
            Do the American forces get this treatment when they come up here?
            (I know there are a couple of spectators on this list) Do Canadians
            who portray US forces get this?

            Kevin,
            My group (all Cdn) portray the 25th US. rarely get boo'd. Usually
            when it does happen it's due to the commentator getting the audience
            to boo the "invaders". The crowd when doing this is doing it in fun
            and no malice is meant. I've never really experienced outright ill
            will hissing and booing from the crowd.



            Terry






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            The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
            square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
            square miles...

            Unit Contact information for North America:
            ---------------------------------
            Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

            American Forces Unit Lisiting
            http://usforces1812.tripod.com

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
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          • Peter Catley
            I agree with Tom, I certainly don t mind the public taking sides in good fun, but occasionally the sentiment slips a bit over the line and we have to do our
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 2, 2003
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              I agree with Tom,



              I certainly don't mind the public taking sides in good fun, but occasionally
              the sentiment slips a bit over the line and we have to do our best to
              prevent that.



              Generally the public are very appreciative of the efforts we make to bring
              our re-enactments to them and we were made especially welcome by the Irish
              when we took 70 redcoats to Collooney in Co. Sligo in 1998, the criac was
              superb. On the Continent of Europe the public make clear their appreciation
              of our efforts to go to their events. Perhaps the best reactions we get are
              in Spain where re-enacting is little known, at A Coruna in 1999 the crowd
              was reported by the papers as being over 35,000 and the British column
              returning to barracks, a march of perhaps a mile and a half, it was only the
              Colour party that retuned (complaining bitterly that they were "on duty")
              The rest had disappeared into the bars along the way at the invitation of
              the locals, such indiscipline is of course totally authentic!!



              Perhaps my best story was from Mississinewa in 2000. The public were very
              appreciative not to say staggered to find that a small number of us had
              travelled by air so soon after the 11th September 2000 attack, however one
              teacher asked me how often I practiced my English accent? I explained to her
              it wasn't an accent merely the way English was spoken, but she refused to
              believe me and suggested to her class that I was from Texas and was keeping
              up my in role character. Well, at that point a colleague joined me and asked
              a question and I replied colloquially, and the kids were convinced, but I'm
              not sure she was :-)



              Cheers




              P**



              -----Original Message-----
              From: Tom Fournier [mailto:tom4141fournier@...]
              Sent: 02 November 2003 16:51
              To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: "Partisan" comments



              Hi Kevin

              I am not challenging, merely seeking clarification ...good natured
              booing in the spirit of the event or nasty, don't like you booing?

              My experience is limited to my just completed first season of re-
              enacting but it did encompass events south of the border at Fort
              Meigs and Mississinewa. There would be a few jokes about the "enemy"
              but typically the public at both events were extremely welcoming and
              gracious. I was really struck by how appreciative they were that a
              group of Canadians would travel so far to help them celebrate their
              local event and local history. At both events, it really made the
              trip worth while!

              Tom, 41st Regiment


              --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Kevin & Allison Windsor
              <kevin.windsor@s...> wrote:
              > I have noticed that at events south of the border I (we) usually
              get booed going off or coming on the field, and at one event I was
              asked why a good American would want
              > to be a red coat. (he was surprised when I told him we were
              Canadians)
              > Do the American forces get this treatment when they come up here?
              (I know there are a couple of spectators on this list) Do Canadians
              who portray US forces get this? I
              > know we never have when we switch teams, but it could be because we
              are good looking!!
              >
              > Kevin
              > 89th







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              The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
              square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
              square miles...

              Unit Contact information for North America:
              ---------------------------------
              Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

              American Forces Unit Lisiting
              http://usforces1812.tripod.com

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
              <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Kevin & Allison Windsor
              I could have misunderstood, but it did seem like a don t like you. don t get me wrong, most are great people, but some are real red coat haters.
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 2, 2003
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                I could have misunderstood, but it did seem like a don't like you. don't get me wrong, most are great people, but some are real red coat haters.

                Tom Fournier wrote:

                > Hi Kevin
                >
                > I am not challenging, merely seeking clarification ...good natured
                > booing in the spirit of the event or nasty, don't like you booing?
              • ebclemson
                I would not be suprised that sometimes the crowd may boo,etc. It is human nature, if in jest and fun understandable, and if in hate, in ignorance but not
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 2, 2003
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                  I would not be suprised that sometimes the crowd may boo,etc. It is human nature, if in jest and fun understandable, and if in hate, in ignorance but not suprising.

                  In my civil War days, I was not only booed but physically attack while at an event in Arkansas, simply because I was talking to "Yanks". What was I thinking! <g>

                  It may also depend on what event is being detected. Perhaps....maybe....the Americans would be booed if depicting the attack on York or reenacting the battle of Chippewa. Generally, most people respect the living historians from all sides.

                  It is good to read Mike Mathews account at Fort Miegs, that even though the British were "invaders" that he was not booed.

                  Dave Bennett

                  1st U. States Infy.



                  --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "PEGGY MATHEWS" <ciefranche21e@m...> wrote:
                  > I remember at Crysler's Farm in '02 getting lustily booed by the public while marching with the US forces. Frankly didn't bother me one bit. We represented an invading force and the victory was something to be proud of, plus there was a cheerleader of sorts going up and down the rope line from what I heard. (I didn't see him.)
                  >
                  > Thanks to all the AWI "lobsterback" images and movies like "Patriot" we have nurtured and sustained a dislike for redcoats. At Fort Meigs last year I didn't notice the public showing such poor manners though.
                  >
                  > Michael M.
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Kevin & Allison Windsor
                  > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 7:56 AM
                  > Subject: [WarOf1812] "Partisan" comments
                  >
                  >
                  > I have noticed that at events south of the border I (we) usually get booed going off or coming on the field, and at one event I was asked why a good American would want
                  > to be a red coat. (he was surprised when I told him we were Canadians)
                  > Do the American forces get this treatment when they come up here? (I know there are a couple of spectators on this list) Do Canadians who portray US forces get this? I
                  > know we never have when we switch teams, but it could be because we are good looking!!
                  >
                  > Kevin
                  > 89th
                  >
                  > hq93rd wrote:
                  >
                  > > What a novel concept!
                  > > You mean I can now, and finally -- after too many years, look forward
                  > > to attending events and not having snide comments and looks directed
                  > > my way (and usually behind my back) simply because I (a born and bred
                  > > USA-ian) wear a red uniform?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
                  >
                  > Unit Contact information for North America:
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                  > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                  >
                  > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                  > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • PEGGY MATHEWS
                  Well actually I was in the American camp with Plauche s battalion, so may have missed some crowd reactions. However, I would have to say that in my experience
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 2, 2003
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                    Well actually I was in the American camp with Plauche's battalion, so may have missed some crowd reactions. However, I would have to say that in my experience the area fans are very knowledgeable and polite. That plus the fine way reenactors are treated there accounts for the ten hour drive I take one or two times each year.

                    Michael Mathews
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: ebclemson
                    To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 8:05 PM
                    Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: "Partisan" comments


                    (snip)
                    It is good to read Mike Mathews account at Fort Miegs, that even though the British were "invaders" that he was not booed.

                    Dave Bennett

                    1st U. States Infy.

                    (snip)

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Tracy
                    Kevin us spectators on the side lines sometimes boo the American forces and being a spectator we don t know if it an actual American or a cross dresser we boo
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 2, 2003
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                      Kevin us spectators on the side lines sometimes boo the American
                      forces and being a spectator we don't know if it an actual American
                      or a "cross dresser we boo in a jokingly tone of voice.
                      Tracy



                      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Kevin & Allison Windsor
                      <kevin.windsor@s...> wrote:
                      > I have noticed that at events south of the border I (we) usually
                      get booed going off or coming on the field, and at one event I was
                      asked why a good American would want
                      > to be a red coat. (he was surprised when I told him we were
                      Canadians)
                      > Do the American forces get this treatment when they come up here?
                      (I know there are a couple of spectators on this list) Do Canadians
                      who portray US forces get this? I
                      > know we never have when we switch teams, but it could be because we
                      are good looking!!
                      >
                      > Kevin
                      > 89th
                      >
                      > hq93rd wrote:
                      >
                      > > What a novel concept!
                      > > You mean I can now, and finally -- after too many years, look
                      forward
                      > > to attending events and not having snide comments and looks
                      directed
                      > > my way (and usually behind my back) simply because I (a born and
                      bred
                      > > USA-ian) wear a red uniform?
                    • hm95thfoot
                      ... American ... At War of 1812 events we have always, as American citizens celebrating the accomplishments and memories of those who fought on the side of the
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 3, 2003
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                        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Tracy" <tracyforsyth@h...> wrote:
                        > Kevin us spectators on the side lines sometimes boo the American
                        > forces and being a spectator we don't know if it an actual
                        American
                        > or a "cross dresser we boo in a jokingly tone of voice.
                        > Tracy
                        >


                        At War of 1812 events we have always, as American citizens
                        celebrating the accomplishments and memories of those who fought on
                        the side of the Crown, been treated with the utmost courtesy, at
                        least by the site staffs and visitors. The people at Ft. Niagara,
                        Ft. Erie and Ft. George, as well as the NPS staff at Chalmette
                        Battlefield stand out in my mind as being especially courteous and
                        respectful.

                        Every once in a while we encounter a somewhat misinformed visitor
                        (rifle units tend to attract those....), whom we politely let ramble
                        on, but most, just about all, really, were tickled pink that we,
                        like all the other reenactors, had come to these places. When they
                        learned where we were from, some were quite astounded that we had
                        come so far, and were all the more appreciative as a result.

                        On the Rev War side, if I may, it was especially delicious irony to
                        be in French Quebec City and having les citoyens go absolutely mad
                        in cheering us British redcoats a few years ago. Something I thought
                        I'd never live to see. (Of course, they might have been cheering us
                        because "we" saved them from the American invaders in 1775....)

                        RWF
                      • Larry Lozon
                        From: Peter Catley The role of the Commentators is often significant. ________________ I have found, since doing the narration
                        Message 11 of 13 , Nov 3, 2003
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                          From: "Peter Catley" <peter.catley@...>

                          The role of the Commentators is often significant.

                          ________________

                          I have found, since doing the narration at a number of
                          events that the commentator's remarks should be equal
                          about both sides and remember where you are ......

                          It is not nice to pee in the other guys sandbox!

                          I also make sure that they understand in order to have a
                          battle you need an enemy and some of the enemy are actually
                          "YOUR GUYS" cross dressing.

                          This usually deters the cat calls. Also with the march past at
                          the end of the tactical, especially if I can help it, both sides
                          receive good rounds of applause.

                          Larry Lozon
                        • HQ93rd@aol.com
                          ... My dear Peter, Are you insinuating I do not have, nor wear a kilt? Tish tosh! I lead the Highland Brigade on the death marches of 1990 and 1995 through
                          Message 12 of 13 , Nov 6, 2003
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                            In a message dated 2/11/2003 9:47:29 AM, peter.catley@... writes:


                            > However in France one section of the British Army have been raised to
                            > Sainthood and that is the Highlanders, but only those in kilts I'm afraid
                            > Benton.
                            >

                            My dear Peter,
                            Are you insinuating I do not have, nor wear a kilt?
                            Tish tosh!
                            I lead the Highland Brigade on the "death marches" of 1990 and 1995 through
                            the ways and backways of Waterloo and Braine A'llude (sic) clad in kilt,
                            sporran and kilt-hose. Being at the head of the column I heard first off the
                            ecstatic cries of "Eccosais!!" from the locals, and watched the glasses of beer
                            appear out of pubs and houses to be offered the lads. I was also present at Boulgne
                            in '95, seeing more of the same.
                            Now, as I follow regs and as an Highland officer wear trousers and boots in
                            the field, does not mean I know nothing of kilts!

                            Yours, most bombastically,
                            B
                            93rd SHRoFLHU
                            THE Thin Red Line
                            www.93rdhighlanders.com



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