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US/UK Crown Forces

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  • usmarine1814
    Is the recent collection of Unit names and info and the increased references to these forces perhaps the begining of umbrella groups. I dont mind personally
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 28, 2003
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      Is the recent collection of Unit names and info and the increased
      references to these "forces" perhaps the begining of umbrella
      groups. I dont mind personally I think it could be good for the 1812
      hobby for communication and coordination purposes. I also believe in
      authenticity standards, but many feel this may be a "slippery slope".
      Just wondering.
      CM
    • Gord_1812
      ... Personally I think a more informal coordination between units is best. I shudder when I read the word umbrella . I think the individually of units is
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 28, 2003
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        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "usmarine1814" <usmarine1812@a...>
        wrote:
        > Is the recent collection of Unit names and info and the increased
        > references to these "forces" perhaps the begining of umbrella
        > groups. I dont mind personally I think it could be good for the
        >1812 hobby for communication and coordination purposes.

        Personally I think a more informal coordination between units is
        best. I shudder when I read the word umbrella . I think the
        individually of units is what makes this hobby interesting.

        Some of us love to do drill. Some just want to dress up an look nice.
        Some just want to talk to the public.

        My fear is that a "umbrella" group would kill the individuality of
        seprate units. You all know my view of the Crown Forces idea.
        It's a great way to coordinate events and battles, BUT lets keep it a
        hobby and not a job.


        >I also believe in
        > authenticity standards, but many feel this may be a "slippery
        slope".

        Authenticity standards are good to a point! Just remeber a lot of us
        do the hobby for recreation. I'm the first to suggest that someone
        put that Coke in a period mug or hide a cooler. But I'll be the first
        to tell a " authenticity standards cop" to bugger off if he/she
        tells me my tent is to big for my rank or that I have to replace my
        air mattress with straw. Or my boots have to be replaced with brogans.

        (don't laugh) It happened to me at a F&I event at FT. Ticondroga
        (SP?) ((I never went back!))

        Gord
      • dancingbobd@webtv.net
        Hey Man, It s just a couple of lists that let us figure out how to contact other groups. We all know, by now, how everyone feels about umbrella groups. I
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 28, 2003
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          Hey Man,

          It's just a couple of lists that let us figure out how to contact other
          groups. We all know, by now, how everyone feels about umbrella groups.
          I repeat, we all KNOW how everybody feels about umbrella groups. This
          ain't one.

          Bob Dorian
          Independence, Missouri
          USA
        • celer_et_audax_7_60th
          ... us ... someone ... first ... my ... brogans. ... A good move for both sides, who were obviously uncomfortable with each other. Why am I suddenly reminded
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 29, 2003
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            --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Gord_1812" <gord_1812@y...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Authenticity standards are good to a point! Just remeber a lot of
            us
            > do the hobby for recreation. I'm the first to suggest that
            someone
            > put that Coke in a period mug or hide a cooler. But I'll be the
            first
            > to tell a " authenticity standards cop" to bugger off if he/she
            > tells me my tent is to big for my rank or that I have to replace
            my
            > air mattress with straw. Or my boots have to be replaced with
            brogans.
            >
            > (don't laugh) It happened to me at a F&I event at FT. Ticondroga
            > (SP?) ((I never went back!))
            >
            > Gord


            A good move for both sides, who were obviously uncomfortable with
            each other.

            Why am I suddenly reminded of a comment by a CO of a Boston area AWI
            Crown Forces reenactment group who told me, in all seriousness, a
            few years ago,

            "Documentation and authenticity are all right- as long as they
            confirm what it is we are already doing...." /;^D

            And yes, they are members of an umbrella group. An umbrella group is
            not a guarantor of conscientiousness. The individual member is.

            RWF
          • Kevin & Allison Windsor
            So should those who don t like drill and just want to look nice be allowed on the field for a battle? That would be the quickest way to kill the hobby. just
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 29, 2003
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              So should those who don't "like" drill and just want to look nice be allowed on the field for a battle? That would be the quickest way to kill the hobby.

              just in case it happens put them on my right so I can hear them about to kill each other, my left ear isn't so good because of someones lack of training!



              Gord_1812 wrote:

              > Some of us love to do drill. Some just want to dress up an look nice.
              > Some just want to talk to the public.
            • Larry Lozon
              From: usmarine1814 Subject: [WarOf1812] US/UK Crown Forces Is the recent collection of Unit names and info and the increased
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 29, 2003
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                From: "usmarine1814" <usmarine1812@...>
                Subject: [WarOf1812] US/UK Crown Forces


                Is the recent collection of Unit names and info and the increased
                references to these "forces" perhaps the begining of umbrella
                groups.
                __________________

                Sir, Please be advised ........

                1.
                Your Subject infers a US Uk Crown Forces,
                this is in fact incorrect.

                Crown Forces North America 1812 are units representing
                BRITISH ~ CANADIAN ~ MILITIAS ~ ALLIES
                and are listed at:
                http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                The United States Forces of the War of 1812
                are listed at:
                http://usforces1812.tripod.com

                2.
                You and all 1812 'NEWBEE' subscribers to this Yahoo List,
                and all those who have forgotten, should refer to the Archives
                at the War Of 1812 Yahoo Group Web Site
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
                and see that we have discussed 'UMBRELLA GROUPS"
                in their entirety.

                3. You will also see in the Archives that I have assembled and
                try to maintain an 1812 Events List. It is merle to enable the
                subscribers to know what 1812 events are being held in North America.

                4. You will also see that Betsy Bayshore and myself have compiled
                a list of War of 1812 USA and Crown Forces. It is used by sites for
                their invitations to events and for the new recruits to contact said units.
                And for the subscribers of this Yahoo Group to know what units are
                being re-enacted.

                After this research, you and all will see there is NO UMBRELLA GROUP
                and those who are afraid of them should sit down, hold on, calm down,
                and we really don't give a damn if you like them or not as there ain't none
                in 1812 !!!

                With this said, I will state that they work like a charm in the other time
                periods
                but only for those who want to do those impressions correctly.

                Without prejudice or tact,

                Larry Lozon

                a War of 1812 Yahoo Group "member"
              • Gord_1812
                ... be allowed on the field for a battle? Don t be silly! I go on the field and also don t like drill. But I do it. Just because we don t like is no reason to
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 29, 2003
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                  --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Kevin & Allison Windsor
                  <kevin.windsor@s...> wrote:
                  > So should those who don't "like" drill and just want to look nice
                  be allowed on the field for a battle?

                  Don't be silly! I go on the field and also don't like drill. But I
                  do it. Just because we don't like is no reason to bar me or any other
                  re-enactor from the field. I know some guys that haven't done drill
                  in years but still know it better than a lot of us. And yes I'd
                  stand to the right of them in line.


                  >
                  > just in case it happens put them on my right so I can hear them
                  about to kill each other, my left ear isn't so good because of
                  someones lack of training!
                  Your an officer right? So you stand on the right of your unit? Looks
                  to me you should look in your back yard.

                  Gord
                • Gord_1812
                  Thanks Larry I m sitting and I m calm. Thanks for the clarification and thanks for hosting this group. I think this is a great way for all of us to post our
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 29, 2003
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                    Thanks Larry

                    I'm sitting and I'm calm.
                    Thanks for the clarification and thanks for hosting this group.
                    I think this is a great way for all of us to post our opinions on
                    what is happening in the hobby.
                    Gord





                    --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Lozon" <lalozon@n...> wrote:
                    > From: "usmarine1814" <usmarine1812@a...>
                    > Subject: [WarOf1812] US/UK Crown Forces
                    >
                    >
                    > Is the recent collection of Unit names and info and the increased
                    > references to these "forces" perhaps the begining of umbrella
                    > groups.
                    > __________________
                    >
                    > Sir, Please be advised ........
                    >
                    > 1.
                    > Your Subject infers a US Uk Crown Forces,
                    > this is in fact incorrect.
                    >
                    > Crown Forces North America 1812 are units representing
                    > BRITISH ~ CANADIAN ~ MILITIAS ~ ALLIES
                    > and are listed at:
                    > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                    >
                    > The United States Forces of the War of 1812
                    > are listed at:
                    > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                    >
                    > 2.
                    > You and all 1812 'NEWBEE' subscribers to this Yahoo List,
                    > and all those who have forgotten, should refer to the Archives
                    > at the War Of 1812 Yahoo Group Web Site
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/
                    > and see that we have discussed 'UMBRELLA GROUPS"
                    > in their entirety.
                    >
                    > 3. You will also see in the Archives that I have assembled and
                    > try to maintain an 1812 Events List. It is merle to enable the
                    > subscribers to know what 1812 events are being held in North
                    America.
                    >
                    > 4. You will also see that Betsy Bayshore and myself have compiled
                    > a list of War of 1812 USA and Crown Forces. It is used by sites for
                    > their invitations to events and for the new recruits to contact
                    said units.
                    > And for the subscribers of this Yahoo Group to know what units are
                    > being re-enacted.
                    >
                    > After this research, you and all will see there is NO UMBRELLA GROUP
                    > and those who are afraid of them should sit down, hold on, calm
                    down,
                    > and we really don't give a damn if you like them or not as there
                    ain't none
                    > in 1812 !!!
                    >
                    > With this said, I will state that they work like a charm in the
                    other time
                    > periods
                    > but only for those who want to do those impressions correctly.
                    >
                    > Without prejudice or tact,
                    >
                    > Larry Lozon
                    >
                    > a War of 1812 Yahoo Group "member"
                  • usmarine1814
                    Sorry for asking. Didn t think we would all get our panties in a twist. Questions are a dangerous thing. I suppose I should post only when posted to, or if
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 29, 2003
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                      Sorry for asking. Didn't think we would all get our panties in a
                      twist. Questions are a dangerous thing. I suppose I should post
                      only when posted to, or if some neat new movie comes out.

                      CM
                    • Larry Lozon
                      From: usmarine1814 ... ........... CM As I posted before my panties twisted ............ Take a visit to the Archives and most of your
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 30, 2003
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                        From: "usmarine1814" <usmarine1812@...>

                        > Sorry for asking. Didn't think we would all get our panties in a
                        > twist. Questions are a dangerous thing. I suppose I should post
                        > only when posted to, or if some neat new movie comes out.
                        >
                        ...........

                        CM

                        As I posted before my panties twisted ............

                        Take a visit to the Archives and most of your questions will be answered

                        " You and all 1812 'NEWBEE' subscribers to this Yahoo List,
                        and all those who have forgotten, should refer to the Archives
                        at the War Of 1812 Yahoo Group Web Site
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/ "

                        I musty also comment on Commander Harris's Post

                        Huzzah to you Sir!



                        Without prejudice or tact,

                        Larry Lozon

                        a War of 1812 Yahoo Group "member"
                      • Kevin & Allison Windsor
                        ... If some guy hasn t drilled in years I don t want him standing anywhere near me. If a doctor hasn t practiced in years do you want him to cut you open? This
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 30, 2003
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                          Gord_1812 wrote:

                          > Don't be silly! I go on the field and also don't like drill. But I
                          > do it. Just because we don't like is no reason to bar me or any other
                          > re-enactor from the field. I know some guys that haven't done drill
                          > in years but still know it better than a lot of us. And yes I'd
                          > stand to the right of them in line.
                          >

                          If some guy hasn't drilled in years I don't want him standing anywhere near me.
                          If a doctor hasn't practiced in years do you want him to cut you open?
                          This is a tool that people get sloppy on. If you don't know how to use it or don't want to be shown how to use it. Get off the field before you hurt someone!

                          > Your an officer right? So you stand on the right of your unit? Looks
                          > to me you should look in your back yard.

                          This injury happened when I was in line. (Yes I still do that) Someone who didn't know how to use his fire arm properly decided to fire a double when his barrel was 6"
                          to the side of my left ear. He wasn't from the 89th because the sergeant and I have tought them how to use their muskets. His number was much lower!

                          I am not fond of farb nazi either. I like my chair, my tent, my cooler, but I think an umbrella group to get us all trained to the same standard, from the same book is a
                          great idea. You hear many groups say we only use such and such a drill manual or we are too good we don't need drill.
                          What the crown forces are attempting to do is say 10 guys from three units show up. Put them in one group and they can all get along and do the same thing because they
                          have all been trained from the same book, by the same people and know what each other will and will not do.

                          Just a thought

                          Kevin
                          89th
                        • Gord_1812
                          ... Never do that. Qusetions are what make this group so intresting. It s great having a place where we can all ask a question or post a pet peev. Gord
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 30, 2003
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                            --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "usmarine1814" <usmarine1812@a...>
                            wrote:
                            > Sorry for asking. Didn't think we would all get our panties in a
                            > twist. Questions are a dangerous thing.
                            >I suppose I should post
                            > only when posted to, or if some neat new movie comes out.

                            Never do that. Qusetions are what make this group so intresting. It's
                            great having a place where we can all ask a question or post a pet
                            peev.

                            Gord

                            >
                          • Gord_1812
                            ... I ... anywhere near me. Nor I that s why each and every unit commander has to make sure his guys are up on drill. ... use it or don t want to be shown how
                            Message 13 of 16 , Sep 2 5:47 PM
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                              --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Kevin & Allison Windsor
                              <kevin.windsor@s...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > Gord_1812 wrote:
                              >
                              > > Don't be silly! I go on the field and also don't like drill. But
                              I
                              > > do it. > >
                              >
                              > If some guy hasn't drilled in years I don't want him standing
                              anywhere near me.
                              Nor I that's why each and every unit commander has to make sure his
                              guys are up on drill.

                              > This is a tool that people get sloppy on. If you don't know how to
                              use it or don't want to be shown how to use it. Get off the field
                              before you hurt someone!

                              Show me how to do the drill we need to be safe and I'll be there
                              every time. Show me how to march on colors or how to stand at a
                              church parade and I'll be off on a ice run. Unless there is a unsafe
                              way to stand. :)


                              >
                              > This injury happened when I was in line. (Yes I still do that)
                              Someone who didn't know how to use his fire arm properly decided to
                              fire a double when his barrel was 6"
                              > to the side of my left ear. He wasn't from the 89th because the
                              sergeant and I have tought them how to use their muskets. His number
                              was much lower!

                              Oh I was out of line (no pun intended) on that one.

                              >
                              > I am not fond of farb nazi either. I like my chair, my tent, my
                              cooler, but I think an umbrella group to get us all trained to the
                              same standard, from the same book is a
                              > great idea. You hear many groups say we only use such and such a
                              drill manual or we are too good we don't need drill.

                              No unit is too good for drill that will make them safer!


                              > What the crown forces are attempting to do is say 10 guys from
                              three units show up. Put them in one group and they can all get along
                              and do the same thing because they
                              > have all been trained from the same book, by the same people and
                              know what each other will and will not do.

                              Again good point Kevin. If it's saftey related.

                              Gord
                            • debsfuller
                              ... unsafe way to stand. :) Actually there is. Many a novice in marching band or the military has collapsed in the ranks from locking their knees while
                              Message 14 of 16 , Sep 4 3:41 PM
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                                --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Gord_1812" <gord_1812@y...> wrote:
                                > Show me how to do the drill we need to be safe and I'll be there
                                > every time. Show me how to march on colors or how to stand at a
                                > church parade and I'll be off on a ice run. Unless there is a
                                unsafe way to stand. :)

                                Actually there is. Many a novice in marching band or the military has
                                collapsed in the ranks from locking their knees while standing at
                                attention.

                                Someone might want to hold a safety class on this. And you know
                                sooner or later, the NPS will write strict regulations on it and
                                require anyone who stands at attention on their site to go through
                                their certification course. You'll have to walk around for at least 7
                                minutes between standing at attention and do several yoga positions
                                just to make sure that you are completely limber before standing at
                                attention again.

                                ;)

                                Deb
                              • Gord_1812
                                LOL I m happy to see someone has a great sence of humor. ... has ... Yep learned it the hard way in Cadets. ... 7 ... Hey guys Deb is only joking!!! Out down
                                Message 15 of 16 , Sep 4 7:10 PM
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                                  LOL I'm happy to see someone has a great sence of humor.

                                  > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Gord_1812" <gord_1812@y...>
                                  wrote:
                                  > > Show me how to do the drill we need to be safe and I'll be there
                                  > > every time. Show me how to march on colors or how to stand at a
                                  > > church parade and I'll be off on a ice run. Unless there is a
                                  > unsafe way to stand. :)
                                  >
                                  > Actually there is. Many a novice in marching band or the military
                                  has
                                  > collapsed in the ranks from locking their knees while standing at
                                  > attention.

                                  Yep learned it the hard way in Cadets.


                                  >
                                  > Someone might want to hold a safety class on this. And you know
                                  > sooner or later, the NPS will write strict regulations on it and
                                  > require anyone who stands at attention on their site to go through
                                  > their certification course. You'll have to walk around for at least
                                  7
                                  > minutes between standing at attention and do several yoga positions
                                  > just to make sure that you are completely limber before standing at
                                  > attention again.

                                  Hey guys Deb is only joking!!! Out down the pens!

                                  Gord
                                • HQ93rd@aol.com
                                  ... Ah, well then. Historic accuracy be damned. What ya think them 16 year old officers would a been a-doing? Dance class? (Well, yes, actually...) What ya
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Sep 8 10:48 PM
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                                    In a message dated 30/08/2003 9:32:39 PM, kevin.windsor@... writes:


                                    > If some guy hasn't drilled in years I don't want him standing anywhere near
                                    > me.
                                    >

                                    Ah, well then. Historic accuracy be damned. What ya think them 16 year old
                                    officers would a been a-doing? Dance class? (Well, yes, actually...)

                                    What ya think Sergeants are for?

                                    B
                                    A Major, and damn proud of it!
                                    And...bow, 2, 3 ...and turn 2,3... and shift 2, 3... and take hands 2,3...
                                    93rd SHRoFLHU
                                    THE Thin Red Line
                                    www.93rdhighlanders.com



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