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Re: [WarOf1812] Re: flashguards

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  • BritcomHMP@aol.com
    In a message dated 8/1/2003 11:31:36 PM Central Daylight Time, ... Yes of course they do, they invented them to try to make using a musket safe for people who
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 2, 2003
      In a message dated 8/1/2003 11:31:36 PM Central Daylight Time,
      gord_1812@... writes:


      > Yes Rev war events seem to really push the flash guard and hammer
      > stalls.

      Yes of course they do, they invented them to try to make using a musket safe
      for people who were either scared of the weapon or to lazy to get it right.


      But like some have said. "That's what they did." There are

      > some reports of the military trying out flash guards but it didn't
      > catch on. in The 1800's so why does the rev war crowd put them?
      > And is there actually documentation on hammer stalls?
      >
      >

      No, it is not what they did. There are limited reports of such devices being
      used on unserviceable weapon that could not be replaced. Flashguards on ones
      where the touch hole had become over enlarged and hammerstalls where the half
      cock was not operating properly.

      There were some experiments with the 'self priming' lock that the Prussians
      had developed but of course the flashguard was cast integral with the lock. As
      you rightly say they were never introduced into service.

      They are only in use today because the Rev War people introduced them for
      their bicentennial!

      Cheers

      Tim


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • David Webb
      Hello List, While flashguards are a highly debated bit of safety equipment, and I know of two people who have been hit by flying flashguards, they are less
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 3, 2003
        Hello List,
        While flashguards are a highly debated bit of safety equipment, and I know
        of two people who have been hit by flying flashguards, they are less
        intrusive than more conventional eye protection.
        It will never happen you say? I just learned of a historic site where
        the soldiers now wear construction goggles when they fire muskets.
        Increasingly labour laws in Canada are being very strictly interpreted,
        and some historic site managers are being told that not only could they get
        fired and be sued after an accident, but that they could also end up in
        jail if they do not demonstrate "due diligence" under the law. Insurance
        companies are less interested in taking risks these days. At Fort George,
        we used to be able to sign up the Fire Department as volunteers to fire off
        Canada Day fireworks when the Town's insurance company refused to cover the
        activity, but our policy will no longer cover this. It still covers
        participants at our events, but this may not last. Insurance companies,
        historic site safety committees, and nervous managers may well dictate
        safety equipment in the future.
        --Dave Webb At 09:42 AM 02/08/2003 -0400, you wrote:
        >In a message dated 8/1/2003 11:31:36 PM Central Daylight Time,
        >gord_1812@... writes:
        >
        >
        > > Yes Rev war events seem to really push the flash guard and hammer
        > > stalls.
        >
        >Yes of course they do, they invented them to try to make using a musket safe
        >for people who were either scared of the weapon or to lazy to get it right.
        >
        >
        > But like some have said. "That's what they did." There are
        >
        > > some reports of the military trying out flash guards but it didn't
        > > catch on. in The 1800's so why does the rev war crowd put them?
        > > And is there actually documentation on hammer stalls?
        > >
        > >
        >
        >No, it is not what they did. There are limited reports of such devices being
        >used on unserviceable weapon that could not be replaced. Flashguards on ones
        >where the touch hole had become over enlarged and hammerstalls where the half
        >cock was not operating properly.
        >
        >There were some experiments with the 'self priming' lock that the Prussians
        >had developed but of course the flashguard was cast integral with the
        >lock. As
        >you rightly say they were never introduced into service.
        >
        >They are only in use today because the Rev War people introduced them for
        >their bicentennial!
        >
        >Cheers
        >
        >Tim
        >
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
        >square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
        >of square miles...
        >
        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
      • Mark Dickerson
        Now before a big argument begins, let me state that I am NOT looking to start a debate on flashguards. I am neither endorsing or discrediting flashguards. I
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 9, 2009
          Now before a big argument begins, let me state that I am NOT looking to
          start a debate on flashguards. I am neither endorsing or discrediting
          flashguards. I am NOT attempting to incite a civil war. I am only posting
          this as an interesting tidbit of information. Do with it as you wish. We
          have all seen the various positive and negative arguments on both sides of
          the issue about flashguards, tilting muskets and safety and I don't think we
          need to revisit the issue. Please do NOT let this turn into another flurry
          of hundreds of emails about flashguards.



          My only reason for posting this is to show that some problems we have today,
          existed back then. History does indeed repeat itself.





          Taken from THE REGIMENTAL COMPANION, by Charles James, 7th edition, Vol 1,
          London, 1811. Page XXVII I do not believe that this book had official
          endorsement.



          ".naturally leads me to recommend, that a side-guard made of good tempered
          steel or iron should be attached to the outside of the pans of our musquets.
          Every musquet in the Prussian service is so fenced. The advantage is
          two-fold. First, it would protect the pan from the insinuation of the moist
          vapour through the side crevice; and secondly, the crude or coarse grains of
          powder, which invariable fly into the face of every right hand man, from the
          discharge of the musquet on his left, would be repelled by it."



          Mark D





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • BritcomHMP@aol.com
          Fascinating reference Mark and the first time I have seen anything in English to do with flashguards in British service. As you say this publication did not
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 9, 2009
            Fascinating reference Mark and the first time I have seen anything in
            English to do with flashguards in British service.

            As you say this publication did not have official endorsement. Many of
            these works pop up and they aimed towards the weekend warriors of the militia
            rather than the regulars who had the official manuals to work from.

            Personaly I don't think that anyone will ever convince me that a device
            which prevents the correct operation of a weapon is a 'safety device' but as
            you say this is most interesting, and period!

            Cheers

            Tim


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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