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Re: [WarOf1812] 1813 Tombstone Shako

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  • Annette and Lloyd
    BiLL , Please contact me off net ,and I will measure out my tombstone shako for you and as well give you two manufacturers names and addresses . Remember the
    Message 1 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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      BiLL ,
      Please contact me off net ,and I will measure out my tombstone shako for
      you and as well give you two manufacturers names and addresses .
      Remember the School of the Soldier ,I had the Lherbetts packs with me .
      Lloyd Gower
      agower@....
    • Susan Spencer McLean
      Calvin, as I said in my original notes, John McMicking is not inexpensive. But he is by no means overpriced. I invite you to explore the prices of similar
      Message 2 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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        Calvin, as I said in my original notes, John McMicking is not
        inexpensive. But he is by no means overpriced. I invite you to explore
        the prices of similar quality and construction hats of all types (i.e.
        completely hand-made, to order, with customs sizing and finishes (also
        hand-done), from finest quality materials, made to be indistinguishable
        from the originals in terms of techniques used, quality produced, and
        types of materials used -- that are built to last a lifetime and more)
        anywhere in the world. In London (England), top hats of a similar
        quality to the shako that you mention go for a minimum of 400 pounds
        sterling (about CDN$800 today), and are usually priced closer to 500
        pounds (CDN$1000) each. The fact that the London hat shop who supplies
        the Queen, Prince Chas., the rest of the Royal Family, and all those who
        attend Ascot in their proper hats and toppers thinks highly enough of
        John's work to send their most difficult repairs to him -- from England!
        -- will attest to the quality of his work and the respect that he has
        garnered on the worldwide stage of hatters.

        John's beaver hats start at CDN$300 and go up from there -- apparently
        your shako must have some additional features to the basic beaver model.
        Of course, his wool hats are priced in a lower range.

        All of that being said, Clearwater Hats does indeed produce a nice hat
        of very respectable quality. But comparing them to a McMicking handmade
        hat is like comparing apples and oranges.

        2 cents from my end.

        -- Sioux
        Mrs. McLean's Mercantile
      • JGIL1812@aol.com
        In a message dated 5/6/03 11:29:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ... To One and All, There is no comparison. John s shako s are superb! JG/RE [Non-text portions of
        Message 3 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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          In a message dated 5/6/03 11:29:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
          susan@... writes:

          > But comparing them to a McMicking handmade
          > hat is like comparing apples and oranges.
          >

          To One and All,

          There is no comparison. John's shako's are superb!

          JG/RE


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Calvin Arnt
          Dear Larry and Susan. Thank you Mr. Lorzon on my hat; alas, that is only how people know me right now: the guy with the big hat. For both of you, we have to
          Message 4 of 15 , May 7, 2003
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            Dear Larry and Susan.

            Thank you Mr. Lorzon on my hat; alas, that is only how people know me
            right now: the guy with the big hat.

            For both of you, we have to watch we are talking about the same
            thing. This original thread was about shakos and I don't own one, so
            I can't compare. Also, I wasn't talking about Chapeau Bras. Those are
            what Peter wore on the weekend; my hat is called a Round hat or some
            other varient at times depending on the region.

            Comparing round hats between McMicking and Clearwater, there is a
            difference. First, let me say that Clearwater could not produce the
            exact hat that I got from McMicking. They could not get the brim as
            wide, and mine ended up being 3 1/2 inches wide. However, they could
            do a round hat with a 2 1/4 inch brim, and when you compare the cost
            of those, I paid in total $511 CDN for my McMicking hat, and
            Clearwater could have made me that beaver hat with 2 1/4 inch brim
            for about $150 US. These prices are about a year old, so may have
            increased some by now.

            In no way do I want this to mean I am dissatisfied with my hat or its
            quality. I just think it was too expensive, and that is my opinion
            Sue. If yours is different, then you are welcome to your opinion as
            well, but mine is that he is overpriced. Cheers!

            Calvin.
          • Larry Lozon
            From: Calvin Arnt Dear Mr. Arent I agree, You are the guy with the big hat! And as well YOU have to watch that YOU are talking about the
            Message 5 of 15 , May 7, 2003
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              From: "Calvin Arnt" <arnt@...>

              Dear Mr. Arent

              I agree, You are the guy with the big hat!

              And as well YOU have to watch that YOU are talking about the same
              thing as well.......

              The original thread WAS about shakos and you state that you don't own one,
              so you can't compare, therefore should not have posted to this thread since
              your
              email was about another hat all together.

              My post of a Chapeau was an example to disprove your price comparison, which
              it did.

              Ms. Sioux and I know that your hat is called a 'Round hat' as I own three
              of them and she sells them

              Your comparison of pricing is not valid, as you say that Clearwater cannot
              manufacture the hat you required. I know you must have researched the hat
              you required and wanted it to be a exact copy of an historical hat so no
              matter what you paid, it was the historical hat you ended up with. It would
              be interesting to read your research on your hat, possibly you could give me
              a copy?

              'Overpriced' is a very harsh word when some one makes something by hand, I
              wonder how much that works out to an hour?

              Always Your Most Humble & Obedient Servant

              Larry L o z o n
            • Craig Williams
              ... Actually Calvin, I believe that Peter wears a cocked hat or bi-corn. It is a heavy hat with a stiff foundation. As compared to a chapeau bras (fr. arm
              Message 6 of 15 , May 7, 2003
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                >
                > For both of you, we have to watch we are talking about the same
                > thing. This original thread was about shakos and I don't own one, so
                > I can't compare. Also, I wasn't talking about Chapeau Bras. Those are
                > what Peter wore on the weekend;

                Actually Calvin, I believe that Peter wears a cocked hat or bi-corn. It is a
                heavy hat with a stiff foundation.
                As compared to a chapeau bras (fr. "arm hat" literally), so named because
                when it's not in use one can flatten it and tuck it under ones arm.

                Craig
              • Bill Jordan
                I did not mean for this to be hot or controversial topic. All I wanted was information concerning the particulars of the 1813 Tombstone Shako. Being a FNG to
                Message 7 of 15 , May 7, 2003
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                  I did not mean for this to be hot or controversial topic. All I
                  wanted was information concerning the particulars of the 1813
                  Tombstone Shako. Being a FNG to this time period, I was trying
                  garner as much info as possible. I am having a hard time finding the
                  right reference materials to begin searching the construction
                  techniques, dimensions, etc. I appreciate all the response from
                  everyone. No intention to start a heated discussion. Please let's
                  limit thread to the construction/dimensions of the 1813 shako.
                • Calvin Arnt
                  Dearest Mr. Lorzon. thank you for your reply. May I interject at the start that my last name is not Arent but rather Arnt. From the original German Arndt
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 8, 2003
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                    Dearest Mr. Lorzon.

                    thank you for your reply. May I interject at the start that my last
                    name is not "Arent" but rather "Arnt." From the original
                    German "Arndt" the English equivalent being Arnold. My Grandpa
                    decided to Anglocize it when we immigrated to Canada, but taking out
                    the "d" didn't change the pronunciation. Anyhoo....

                    I spoke up about this issue because a comment was made about
                    McMicking that I disagreed with. I said, that although I don't own a
                    shako, I can make a comment if you want to compare round hats. And I
                    did that. I wasn't confusing anything, at least not intentially, but
                    I recongnize that the thread did get a little muddy and I am partly
                    to blame for that. I still stand behind my comment on price.

                    As far as the research for my hat, well take a look at the men at
                    arms book for BNA 1793-1815. Other than that, I can see this issue
                    turning into another debate, which I care not to have, so good luck
                    with all that. Cheers!

                    Calvin.
                  • Tom Apple
                    ... Hello Bill, We happen to have one of Tim Wilson s 1813 shako s in stock at the moment. It is a size 7-1/8 to 7-1/4. I don t know if Tim Wilson is the
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 8, 2003
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                      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Jordan" <wavey1us@y...> wrote:
                      >Also,
                      > suggestions as to who makes the best repro.

                      Hello Bill,

                      We happen to have one of Tim Wilson's 1813 shako's in stock at the
                      moment. It is a size 7-1/8 to 7-1/4. I don't know if Tim Wilson is the
                      "best" but his research and workmanship are top notch as he is
                      classicly trained as a journeyman cordwainer at Colonial Williamsburg.
                      I believe it is based off of a hat in Troiani's collection.

                      The shako as well as other ca. 1812 accouterments are located near the
                      bottom of this page:
                      http://www.tuckahoetradingco.com/leather.html

                      Regards,

                      Tom Apple
                      Tuckahoe Trading Company
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