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1813 Tombstone Shako

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  • Larry Lozon
    From: Calvin Arnt Slight disagreement here, and just my own opinion. I found his prices to be VERY expensive. ......but $500 for a beaver
    Message 1 of 15 , May 6, 2003
      From: "Calvin Arnt" <arnt@...>

      Slight disagreement here, and just my own opinion. I found his prices
      to be VERY expensive. ......but $500 for a beaver hat? I'd send them
      to Clearwater Hats

      -----------------------

      Calvin,

      ~ and a lovely hat you have !!
      ......................


      Now, as per:
      http://www.clearwaterhats.com/furtradetwo.htm

      Clearwater Hats advertised a

      Chapeau Bras for $325 USA dollars

      Today, Tuesday, May 6, 2003 the amount

      $325.00 US Dollars = $458.64 Canadian Dollars

      and that is not counting in the shipping, the Canadian Goods and Services
      Tax
      or the Ontario Provincial Sales Tax. Then of course there is the Canadian
      Duties
      and Excise Taxes

      Thus John McMicking of Dundas, Ontario offers his Chapeau Bras cheaper?!?!


      And then we move on to the "1813 Tombstone Shako"

      I cannot find the 1813 Tombstone Shako on their website ?!?

      Did you?

      As that is the hat that was being asked about ......


      Larry Lozon
      "Who owns a number of McMicking Hats
      and well worth the monies paid"

      "Quality is remembered after Price is forgotten"


      =============================
      From: "Calvin Arnt" <arnt@...>

      > Slight disagreement here, and just my own opinion. I found his prices
      > to be VERY expensive. Yes, his work is great and the hat will
      > probably last me all my reenacting life, but $500 for a beaver hat? I
      > bit the bullet because I am an officer, but for an average soldier
      > who wants a well-made round hat or something like it, I'd send them
      > to Clearwater Hats. They have a large selection (I'm not sure about
      > shakos), and you can special order too, like if you want an extra
      > wide brim or whatever. Just my 2 cents.
      >
      > Calvin.
      > ------------------------
      > Susan Spencer McLean wrote:
      > >
      > > My highest recommendation on repro hats goes to John McMicking of
      > > Dundas, Ontario -- phone 905-627-7492. He is very busy, especially
      > at
      > > this time of year (he's making all of the hats for the Stratford
      > and
      > > Shaw Festivals), so you will need to be prepared to wait a bit, and
      > he
      > > is not inexpensive but also not overpriced -- he does produce
      > excellent,
      > > hand-done
      ------------------------
    • Annette and Lloyd
      BiLL , Please contact me off net ,and I will measure out my tombstone shako for you and as well give you two manufacturers names and addresses . Remember the
      Message 2 of 15 , May 6, 2003
        BiLL ,
        Please contact me off net ,and I will measure out my tombstone shako for
        you and as well give you two manufacturers names and addresses .
        Remember the School of the Soldier ,I had the Lherbetts packs with me .
        Lloyd Gower
        agower@....
      • Susan Spencer McLean
        Calvin, as I said in my original notes, John McMicking is not inexpensive. But he is by no means overpriced. I invite you to explore the prices of similar
        Message 3 of 15 , May 6, 2003
          Calvin, as I said in my original notes, John McMicking is not
          inexpensive. But he is by no means overpriced. I invite you to explore
          the prices of similar quality and construction hats of all types (i.e.
          completely hand-made, to order, with customs sizing and finishes (also
          hand-done), from finest quality materials, made to be indistinguishable
          from the originals in terms of techniques used, quality produced, and
          types of materials used -- that are built to last a lifetime and more)
          anywhere in the world. In London (England), top hats of a similar
          quality to the shako that you mention go for a minimum of 400 pounds
          sterling (about CDN$800 today), and are usually priced closer to 500
          pounds (CDN$1000) each. The fact that the London hat shop who supplies
          the Queen, Prince Chas., the rest of the Royal Family, and all those who
          attend Ascot in their proper hats and toppers thinks highly enough of
          John's work to send their most difficult repairs to him -- from England!
          -- will attest to the quality of his work and the respect that he has
          garnered on the worldwide stage of hatters.

          John's beaver hats start at CDN$300 and go up from there -- apparently
          your shako must have some additional features to the basic beaver model.
          Of course, his wool hats are priced in a lower range.

          All of that being said, Clearwater Hats does indeed produce a nice hat
          of very respectable quality. But comparing them to a McMicking handmade
          hat is like comparing apples and oranges.

          2 cents from my end.

          -- Sioux
          Mrs. McLean's Mercantile
        • JGIL1812@aol.com
          In a message dated 5/6/03 11:29:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ... To One and All, There is no comparison. John s shako s are superb! JG/RE [Non-text portions of
          Message 4 of 15 , May 6, 2003
            In a message dated 5/6/03 11:29:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
            susan@... writes:

            > But comparing them to a McMicking handmade
            > hat is like comparing apples and oranges.
            >

            To One and All,

            There is no comparison. John's shako's are superb!

            JG/RE


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Calvin Arnt
            Dear Larry and Susan. Thank you Mr. Lorzon on my hat; alas, that is only how people know me right now: the guy with the big hat. For both of you, we have to
            Message 5 of 15 , May 7, 2003
              Dear Larry and Susan.

              Thank you Mr. Lorzon on my hat; alas, that is only how people know me
              right now: the guy with the big hat.

              For both of you, we have to watch we are talking about the same
              thing. This original thread was about shakos and I don't own one, so
              I can't compare. Also, I wasn't talking about Chapeau Bras. Those are
              what Peter wore on the weekend; my hat is called a Round hat or some
              other varient at times depending on the region.

              Comparing round hats between McMicking and Clearwater, there is a
              difference. First, let me say that Clearwater could not produce the
              exact hat that I got from McMicking. They could not get the brim as
              wide, and mine ended up being 3 1/2 inches wide. However, they could
              do a round hat with a 2 1/4 inch brim, and when you compare the cost
              of those, I paid in total $511 CDN for my McMicking hat, and
              Clearwater could have made me that beaver hat with 2 1/4 inch brim
              for about $150 US. These prices are about a year old, so may have
              increased some by now.

              In no way do I want this to mean I am dissatisfied with my hat or its
              quality. I just think it was too expensive, and that is my opinion
              Sue. If yours is different, then you are welcome to your opinion as
              well, but mine is that he is overpriced. Cheers!

              Calvin.
            • Larry Lozon
              From: Calvin Arnt Dear Mr. Arent I agree, You are the guy with the big hat! And as well YOU have to watch that YOU are talking about the
              Message 6 of 15 , May 7, 2003
                From: "Calvin Arnt" <arnt@...>

                Dear Mr. Arent

                I agree, You are the guy with the big hat!

                And as well YOU have to watch that YOU are talking about the same
                thing as well.......

                The original thread WAS about shakos and you state that you don't own one,
                so you can't compare, therefore should not have posted to this thread since
                your
                email was about another hat all together.

                My post of a Chapeau was an example to disprove your price comparison, which
                it did.

                Ms. Sioux and I know that your hat is called a 'Round hat' as I own three
                of them and she sells them

                Your comparison of pricing is not valid, as you say that Clearwater cannot
                manufacture the hat you required. I know you must have researched the hat
                you required and wanted it to be a exact copy of an historical hat so no
                matter what you paid, it was the historical hat you ended up with. It would
                be interesting to read your research on your hat, possibly you could give me
                a copy?

                'Overpriced' is a very harsh word when some one makes something by hand, I
                wonder how much that works out to an hour?

                Always Your Most Humble & Obedient Servant

                Larry L o z o n
              • Craig Williams
                ... Actually Calvin, I believe that Peter wears a cocked hat or bi-corn. It is a heavy hat with a stiff foundation. As compared to a chapeau bras (fr. arm
                Message 7 of 15 , May 7, 2003
                  >
                  > For both of you, we have to watch we are talking about the same
                  > thing. This original thread was about shakos and I don't own one, so
                  > I can't compare. Also, I wasn't talking about Chapeau Bras. Those are
                  > what Peter wore on the weekend;

                  Actually Calvin, I believe that Peter wears a cocked hat or bi-corn. It is a
                  heavy hat with a stiff foundation.
                  As compared to a chapeau bras (fr. "arm hat" literally), so named because
                  when it's not in use one can flatten it and tuck it under ones arm.

                  Craig
                • Bill Jordan
                  I did not mean for this to be hot or controversial topic. All I wanted was information concerning the particulars of the 1813 Tombstone Shako. Being a FNG to
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 7, 2003
                    I did not mean for this to be hot or controversial topic. All I
                    wanted was information concerning the particulars of the 1813
                    Tombstone Shako. Being a FNG to this time period, I was trying
                    garner as much info as possible. I am having a hard time finding the
                    right reference materials to begin searching the construction
                    techniques, dimensions, etc. I appreciate all the response from
                    everyone. No intention to start a heated discussion. Please let's
                    limit thread to the construction/dimensions of the 1813 shako.
                  • Calvin Arnt
                    Dearest Mr. Lorzon. thank you for your reply. May I interject at the start that my last name is not Arent but rather Arnt. From the original German Arndt
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 8, 2003
                      Dearest Mr. Lorzon.

                      thank you for your reply. May I interject at the start that my last
                      name is not "Arent" but rather "Arnt." From the original
                      German "Arndt" the English equivalent being Arnold. My Grandpa
                      decided to Anglocize it when we immigrated to Canada, but taking out
                      the "d" didn't change the pronunciation. Anyhoo....

                      I spoke up about this issue because a comment was made about
                      McMicking that I disagreed with. I said, that although I don't own a
                      shako, I can make a comment if you want to compare round hats. And I
                      did that. I wasn't confusing anything, at least not intentially, but
                      I recongnize that the thread did get a little muddy and I am partly
                      to blame for that. I still stand behind my comment on price.

                      As far as the research for my hat, well take a look at the men at
                      arms book for BNA 1793-1815. Other than that, I can see this issue
                      turning into another debate, which I care not to have, so good luck
                      with all that. Cheers!

                      Calvin.
                    • Tom Apple
                      ... Hello Bill, We happen to have one of Tim Wilson s 1813 shako s in stock at the moment. It is a size 7-1/8 to 7-1/4. I don t know if Tim Wilson is the
                      Message 10 of 15 , May 8, 2003
                        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Jordan" <wavey1us@y...> wrote:
                        >Also,
                        > suggestions as to who makes the best repro.

                        Hello Bill,

                        We happen to have one of Tim Wilson's 1813 shako's in stock at the
                        moment. It is a size 7-1/8 to 7-1/4. I don't know if Tim Wilson is the
                        "best" but his research and workmanship are top notch as he is
                        classicly trained as a journeyman cordwainer at Colonial Williamsburg.
                        I believe it is based off of a hat in Troiani's collection.

                        The shako as well as other ca. 1812 accouterments are located near the
                        bottom of this page:
                        http://www.tuckahoetradingco.com/leather.html

                        Regards,

                        Tom Apple
                        Tuckahoe Trading Company
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