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1813 Tombstone Shako

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  • Larry Lozon
    From: Bill Jordan I am looking for any info concerning the 1813 Tombstone shako. ... Bill As I know not where you are located, in New
    Message 1 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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      From: "Bill Jordan" <wavey1us@...>



      I am looking for any info concerning the 1813 Tombstone shako.

      ------------------------

      Bill

      As I know not where you are located, in New Zealand, Japan, UK or North
      America?!

      On this 1812 Yahoo List we have subscribers from all these locations and
      more.

      I offer this Canadian source for a leather USA 1813 Tombstone shako.

      Tom Harstine
      63 Aylmer Crescent
      Stoney Creek Ontario
      Canada L8J 1J9
      (905) 573 - 9197
      harstine@...

      Please advise your location when posting to this list, especially when
      wanting a product


      The latest list of

      Sutlers & Merchants who are subscribers
      to this War Of 1812 Yahoo Group

      = = = = = = = = = =

      Allegheny Arsenal

      Steve Abolt + Cynda
      423 W. Cadbury Dr.
      Lynchburg Va 24501
      sacbg7@...

      Purveyors of fine military uniforms and clothing of
      distinction for discerning gentlemen
      Sundries of the finest sorts at fair prices
      ___________________________________

      Ashley Grange Traders

      Ken & Elsie Fisher
      RR #1
      22799 Kintyre Line
      Rodney, Ontario
      Canada N0L 2C0
      (519) 785 - 2215
      ashleygrange@...


      Purveyors of buttons, bugles, rope drums,
      tents, wool melton, leather products,etc.
      ____________________________________

      The Discriminating General

      Providing an exclusive line of top quality military heritage
      products that range from custom-made replicas, historical
      research services and rentals.
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      sales@...
      ____________________________________

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      82 Parkview Drive
      Orangeville, Ontario
      Canada L9W 3J2
      (419) 942-2548, fax (519) 941-7627

      Purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage
      fine hand-sewn embroidered garments
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      ________________________

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      149 Tupper st E #116
      Alliston Ontario,
      Canada L9R 1G2
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      Cooper to Trade.
      ______________

      Mike Dollinger

      Tailor
      Indianapolis Indiana
      smokingiron@...
      ____________________________________

      Mrs. McLean's Mercantile

      Purveyor of finest quality goods for lovers of
      heritage, historical, and reproduction items.
      Rural Route One
      Hillsburgh, Ontario, N0B 1Z0
      Dominion of Canada
      Telephone (+1) 519.855.6507
      Facsimile (+1) 519.855.6037
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      www.mrsmcleans.com/
      ____________________________________

      Past Reflections
      Creators of quality historic clothing and
      leather work for the time period 1740 to 1910.
      Karen & Stephen Posner
      18 Great Oak Court
      Brampton, Ontario L6S 2J9
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      sposner@...

      _______________________________________

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      Penni Stoddart
      326 Winnipeg Blvd.
      London, Ont. N5W 4V2
      penelopepots@...
      ~wheel thrown and hand built historical pottery
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      Items also made to order.
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      New Orleans
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      15 Colbeck cres.
      Alliston, ON L9R 1B7
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      Regimental Supply

      Purveyors of tents, highland clothing and
      accoutrements for the re-enactor.
      Larry Lozon
      34 Greenock Drive
      Kitchener, Ontario
      Canada N2E 2H2
      (519) 741 - 1814
      lalozon@...

      ________________________________

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      Thank you LL ~ AdC
      Crown Forces
      Kitchener Ontario Canada

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    • Calvin Arnt
      Slight disagreement here, and just my own opinion. I found his prices to be VERY expensive. Yes, his work is great and the hat will probably last me all my
      Message 2 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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        Slight disagreement here, and just my own opinion. I found his prices
        to be VERY expensive. Yes, his work is great and the hat will
        probably last me all my reenacting life, but $500 for a beaver hat? I
        bit the bullet because I am an officer, but for an average soldier
        who wants a well-made round hat or something like it, I'd send them
        to Clearwater Hats. They have a large selection (I'm not sure about
        shakos), and you can special order too, like if you want an extra
        wide brim or whatever. Just my 2 cents.

        Calvin.

        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Susan Spencer McLean <susan@m...>
        wrote:
        > My highest recommendation on repro hats goes to John McMicking of
        > Dundas, Ontario -- phone 905-627-7492. He is very busy, especially
        at
        > this time of year (he's making all of the hats for the Stratford
        and
        > Shaw Festivals), so you will need to be prepared to wait a bit, and
        he
        > is not inexpensive but also not overpriced -- he does produce
        excellent,
        > hand-done
      • Larry Lozon
        From: Calvin Arnt Slight disagreement here, and just my own opinion. I found his prices to be VERY expensive. ......but $500 for a beaver
        Message 3 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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          From: "Calvin Arnt" <arnt@...>

          Slight disagreement here, and just my own opinion. I found his prices
          to be VERY expensive. ......but $500 for a beaver hat? I'd send them
          to Clearwater Hats

          -----------------------

          Calvin,

          ~ and a lovely hat you have !!
          ......................


          Now, as per:
          http://www.clearwaterhats.com/furtradetwo.htm

          Clearwater Hats advertised a

          Chapeau Bras for $325 USA dollars

          Today, Tuesday, May 6, 2003 the amount

          $325.00 US Dollars = $458.64 Canadian Dollars

          and that is not counting in the shipping, the Canadian Goods and Services
          Tax
          or the Ontario Provincial Sales Tax. Then of course there is the Canadian
          Duties
          and Excise Taxes

          Thus John McMicking of Dundas, Ontario offers his Chapeau Bras cheaper?!?!


          And then we move on to the "1813 Tombstone Shako"

          I cannot find the 1813 Tombstone Shako on their website ?!?

          Did you?

          As that is the hat that was being asked about ......


          Larry Lozon
          "Who owns a number of McMicking Hats
          and well worth the monies paid"

          "Quality is remembered after Price is forgotten"


          =============================
          From: "Calvin Arnt" <arnt@...>

          > Slight disagreement here, and just my own opinion. I found his prices
          > to be VERY expensive. Yes, his work is great and the hat will
          > probably last me all my reenacting life, but $500 for a beaver hat? I
          > bit the bullet because I am an officer, but for an average soldier
          > who wants a well-made round hat or something like it, I'd send them
          > to Clearwater Hats. They have a large selection (I'm not sure about
          > shakos), and you can special order too, like if you want an extra
          > wide brim or whatever. Just my 2 cents.
          >
          > Calvin.
          > ------------------------
          > Susan Spencer McLean wrote:
          > >
          > > My highest recommendation on repro hats goes to John McMicking of
          > > Dundas, Ontario -- phone 905-627-7492. He is very busy, especially
          > at
          > > this time of year (he's making all of the hats for the Stratford
          > and
          > > Shaw Festivals), so you will need to be prepared to wait a bit, and
          > he
          > > is not inexpensive but also not overpriced -- he does produce
          > excellent,
          > > hand-done
          ------------------------
        • Annette and Lloyd
          BiLL , Please contact me off net ,and I will measure out my tombstone shako for you and as well give you two manufacturers names and addresses . Remember the
          Message 4 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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            BiLL ,
            Please contact me off net ,and I will measure out my tombstone shako for
            you and as well give you two manufacturers names and addresses .
            Remember the School of the Soldier ,I had the Lherbetts packs with me .
            Lloyd Gower
            agower@....
          • Susan Spencer McLean
            Calvin, as I said in my original notes, John McMicking is not inexpensive. But he is by no means overpriced. I invite you to explore the prices of similar
            Message 5 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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              Calvin, as I said in my original notes, John McMicking is not
              inexpensive. But he is by no means overpriced. I invite you to explore
              the prices of similar quality and construction hats of all types (i.e.
              completely hand-made, to order, with customs sizing and finishes (also
              hand-done), from finest quality materials, made to be indistinguishable
              from the originals in terms of techniques used, quality produced, and
              types of materials used -- that are built to last a lifetime and more)
              anywhere in the world. In London (England), top hats of a similar
              quality to the shako that you mention go for a minimum of 400 pounds
              sterling (about CDN$800 today), and are usually priced closer to 500
              pounds (CDN$1000) each. The fact that the London hat shop who supplies
              the Queen, Prince Chas., the rest of the Royal Family, and all those who
              attend Ascot in their proper hats and toppers thinks highly enough of
              John's work to send their most difficult repairs to him -- from England!
              -- will attest to the quality of his work and the respect that he has
              garnered on the worldwide stage of hatters.

              John's beaver hats start at CDN$300 and go up from there -- apparently
              your shako must have some additional features to the basic beaver model.
              Of course, his wool hats are priced in a lower range.

              All of that being said, Clearwater Hats does indeed produce a nice hat
              of very respectable quality. But comparing them to a McMicking handmade
              hat is like comparing apples and oranges.

              2 cents from my end.

              -- Sioux
              Mrs. McLean's Mercantile
            • JGIL1812@aol.com
              In a message dated 5/6/03 11:29:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ... To One and All, There is no comparison. John s shako s are superb! JG/RE [Non-text portions of
              Message 6 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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                In a message dated 5/6/03 11:29:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
                susan@... writes:

                > But comparing them to a McMicking handmade
                > hat is like comparing apples and oranges.
                >

                To One and All,

                There is no comparison. John's shako's are superb!

                JG/RE


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Calvin Arnt
                Dear Larry and Susan. Thank you Mr. Lorzon on my hat; alas, that is only how people know me right now: the guy with the big hat. For both of you, we have to
                Message 7 of 15 , May 7, 2003
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                  Dear Larry and Susan.

                  Thank you Mr. Lorzon on my hat; alas, that is only how people know me
                  right now: the guy with the big hat.

                  For both of you, we have to watch we are talking about the same
                  thing. This original thread was about shakos and I don't own one, so
                  I can't compare. Also, I wasn't talking about Chapeau Bras. Those are
                  what Peter wore on the weekend; my hat is called a Round hat or some
                  other varient at times depending on the region.

                  Comparing round hats between McMicking and Clearwater, there is a
                  difference. First, let me say that Clearwater could not produce the
                  exact hat that I got from McMicking. They could not get the brim as
                  wide, and mine ended up being 3 1/2 inches wide. However, they could
                  do a round hat with a 2 1/4 inch brim, and when you compare the cost
                  of those, I paid in total $511 CDN for my McMicking hat, and
                  Clearwater could have made me that beaver hat with 2 1/4 inch brim
                  for about $150 US. These prices are about a year old, so may have
                  increased some by now.

                  In no way do I want this to mean I am dissatisfied with my hat or its
                  quality. I just think it was too expensive, and that is my opinion
                  Sue. If yours is different, then you are welcome to your opinion as
                  well, but mine is that he is overpriced. Cheers!

                  Calvin.
                • Larry Lozon
                  From: Calvin Arnt Dear Mr. Arent I agree, You are the guy with the big hat! And as well YOU have to watch that YOU are talking about the
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 7, 2003
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                    From: "Calvin Arnt" <arnt@...>

                    Dear Mr. Arent

                    I agree, You are the guy with the big hat!

                    And as well YOU have to watch that YOU are talking about the same
                    thing as well.......

                    The original thread WAS about shakos and you state that you don't own one,
                    so you can't compare, therefore should not have posted to this thread since
                    your
                    email was about another hat all together.

                    My post of a Chapeau was an example to disprove your price comparison, which
                    it did.

                    Ms. Sioux and I know that your hat is called a 'Round hat' as I own three
                    of them and she sells them

                    Your comparison of pricing is not valid, as you say that Clearwater cannot
                    manufacture the hat you required. I know you must have researched the hat
                    you required and wanted it to be a exact copy of an historical hat so no
                    matter what you paid, it was the historical hat you ended up with. It would
                    be interesting to read your research on your hat, possibly you could give me
                    a copy?

                    'Overpriced' is a very harsh word when some one makes something by hand, I
                    wonder how much that works out to an hour?

                    Always Your Most Humble & Obedient Servant

                    Larry L o z o n
                  • Craig Williams
                    ... Actually Calvin, I believe that Peter wears a cocked hat or bi-corn. It is a heavy hat with a stiff foundation. As compared to a chapeau bras (fr. arm
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 7, 2003
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                      >
                      > For both of you, we have to watch we are talking about the same
                      > thing. This original thread was about shakos and I don't own one, so
                      > I can't compare. Also, I wasn't talking about Chapeau Bras. Those are
                      > what Peter wore on the weekend;

                      Actually Calvin, I believe that Peter wears a cocked hat or bi-corn. It is a
                      heavy hat with a stiff foundation.
                      As compared to a chapeau bras (fr. "arm hat" literally), so named because
                      when it's not in use one can flatten it and tuck it under ones arm.

                      Craig
                    • Bill Jordan
                      I did not mean for this to be hot or controversial topic. All I wanted was information concerning the particulars of the 1813 Tombstone Shako. Being a FNG to
                      Message 10 of 15 , May 7, 2003
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                        I did not mean for this to be hot or controversial topic. All I
                        wanted was information concerning the particulars of the 1813
                        Tombstone Shako. Being a FNG to this time period, I was trying
                        garner as much info as possible. I am having a hard time finding the
                        right reference materials to begin searching the construction
                        techniques, dimensions, etc. I appreciate all the response from
                        everyone. No intention to start a heated discussion. Please let's
                        limit thread to the construction/dimensions of the 1813 shako.
                      • Calvin Arnt
                        Dearest Mr. Lorzon. thank you for your reply. May I interject at the start that my last name is not Arent but rather Arnt. From the original German Arndt
                        Message 11 of 15 , May 8, 2003
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                          Dearest Mr. Lorzon.

                          thank you for your reply. May I interject at the start that my last
                          name is not "Arent" but rather "Arnt." From the original
                          German "Arndt" the English equivalent being Arnold. My Grandpa
                          decided to Anglocize it when we immigrated to Canada, but taking out
                          the "d" didn't change the pronunciation. Anyhoo....

                          I spoke up about this issue because a comment was made about
                          McMicking that I disagreed with. I said, that although I don't own a
                          shako, I can make a comment if you want to compare round hats. And I
                          did that. I wasn't confusing anything, at least not intentially, but
                          I recongnize that the thread did get a little muddy and I am partly
                          to blame for that. I still stand behind my comment on price.

                          As far as the research for my hat, well take a look at the men at
                          arms book for BNA 1793-1815. Other than that, I can see this issue
                          turning into another debate, which I care not to have, so good luck
                          with all that. Cheers!

                          Calvin.
                        • Tom Apple
                          ... Hello Bill, We happen to have one of Tim Wilson s 1813 shako s in stock at the moment. It is a size 7-1/8 to 7-1/4. I don t know if Tim Wilson is the
                          Message 12 of 15 , May 8, 2003
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                            --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Jordan" <wavey1us@y...> wrote:
                            >Also,
                            > suggestions as to who makes the best repro.

                            Hello Bill,

                            We happen to have one of Tim Wilson's 1813 shako's in stock at the
                            moment. It is a size 7-1/8 to 7-1/4. I don't know if Tim Wilson is the
                            "best" but his research and workmanship are top notch as he is
                            classicly trained as a journeyman cordwainer at Colonial Williamsburg.
                            I believe it is based off of a hat in Troiani's collection.

                            The shako as well as other ca. 1812 accouterments are located near the
                            bottom of this page:
                            http://www.tuckahoetradingco.com/leather.html

                            Regards,

                            Tom Apple
                            Tuckahoe Trading Company
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