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1813 Tombstone Shako

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  • Bill Jordan
    I am looking for any info concerning the 1813 Tombstone shako. In particular measurements (height (front and back), construction (with or without bag liner),
    Message 1 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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      I am looking for any info concerning the 1813 Tombstone shako. In
      particular measurements (height (front and back), construction (with
      or without bag liner), etc. Any info would be helpful. Also,
      suggestions as to who makes the best repro.

      Bill
    • Steve Abolt
      Bill, Please contact me off list and I ll see what I can do to help. S. ... ===== Cottonbalers, By God! visit our website at www.cottonbalers.lynchburg.net
      Message 2 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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        Bill,
        Please contact me off list and I'll see what I can do
        to help.

        S.

        --- Bill Jordan <wavey1us@...> wrote:
        > I am looking for any info concerning the 1813
        > Tombstone shako. In
        > particular measurements (height (front and back),
        > construction (with
        > or without bag liner), etc. Any info would be
        > helpful. Also,
        > suggestions as to who makes the best repro.
        >
        > Bill
        >
        >


        =====
        Cottonbalers, By God!

        visit our website at www.cottonbalers.lynchburg.net

        __________________________________
        Do you Yahoo!?
        The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
        http://search.yahoo.com
      • Susan Spencer McLean
        My highest recommendation on repro hats goes to John McMicking of Dundas, Ontario -- phone 905-627-7492. He is very busy, especially at this time of year
        Message 3 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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          My highest recommendation on repro hats goes to John McMicking of
          Dundas, Ontario -- phone 905-627-7492. He is very busy, especially at
          this time of year (he's making all of the hats for the Stratford and
          Shaw Festivals), so you will need to be prepared to wait a bit, and he
          is not inexpensive but also not overpriced -- he does produce excellent,
          hand-done work in any style and pretty well any material you wish. He
          is also probably the most knowledgeable person on hats that I have ever met.

          Best regards,
          -- Sioux McLean
          Mrs. McLean's Mercantile
        • Larry Lozon
          From: Bill Jordan I am looking for any info concerning the 1813 Tombstone shako. ... Bill As I know not where you are located, in New
          Message 4 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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            From: "Bill Jordan" <wavey1us@...>



            I am looking for any info concerning the 1813 Tombstone shako.

            ------------------------

            Bill

            As I know not where you are located, in New Zealand, Japan, UK or North
            America?!

            On this 1812 Yahoo List we have subscribers from all these locations and
            more.

            I offer this Canadian source for a leather USA 1813 Tombstone shako.

            Tom Harstine
            63 Aylmer Crescent
            Stoney Creek Ontario
            Canada L8J 1J9
            (905) 573 - 9197
            harstine@...

            Please advise your location when posting to this list, especially when
            wanting a product


            The latest list of

            Sutlers & Merchants who are subscribers
            to this War Of 1812 Yahoo Group

            = = = = = = = = = =

            Allegheny Arsenal

            Steve Abolt + Cynda
            423 W. Cadbury Dr.
            Lynchburg Va 24501
            sacbg7@...

            Purveyors of fine military uniforms and clothing of
            distinction for discerning gentlemen
            Sundries of the finest sorts at fair prices
            ___________________________________

            Ashley Grange Traders

            Ken & Elsie Fisher
            RR #1
            22799 Kintyre Line
            Rodney, Ontario
            Canada N0L 2C0
            (519) 785 - 2215
            ashleygrange@...


            Purveyors of buttons, bugles, rope drums,
            tents, wool melton, leather products,etc.
            ____________________________________

            The Discriminating General

            Providing an exclusive line of top quality military heritage
            products that range from custom-made replicas, historical
            research services and rentals.
            http://www.militaryheritage.com/product.htm

            sales@...
            ____________________________________

            Five Rivers Chapmanry

            82 Parkview Drive
            Orangeville, Ontario
            Canada L9W 3J2
            (419) 942-2548, fax (519) 941-7627

            Purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage
            fine hand-sewn embroidered garments
            historical sewing patterns & embroidery supplies
            http://www.5rivers.org
            email: info@...
            ________________________

            Len The Cooper

            149 Tupper st E #116
            Alliston Ontario,
            Canada L9R 1G2
            (705) 435-7864
            leonard.heidebrecht@...

            Cooper to Trade.
            ______________

            Mike Dollinger

            Tailor
            Indianapolis Indiana
            smokingiron@...
            ____________________________________

            Mrs. McLean's Mercantile

            Purveyor of finest quality goods for lovers of
            heritage, historical, and reproduction items.
            Rural Route One
            Hillsburgh, Ontario, N0B 1Z0
            Dominion of Canada
            Telephone (+1) 519.855.6507
            Facsimile (+1) 519.855.6037
            E-mail: Info@...
            www.mrsmcleans.com/
            ____________________________________

            Past Reflections
            Creators of quality historic clothing and
            leather work for the time period 1740 to 1910.
            Karen & Stephen Posner
            18 Great Oak Court
            Brampton, Ontario L6S 2J9
            905-792-2770
            sposner@...

            _______________________________________

            Penelope's Pots

            Penni Stoddart
            326 Winnipeg Blvd.
            London, Ont. N5W 4V2
            penelopepots@...
            ~wheel thrown and hand built historical pottery
            mugs, bowls, table top butter churns,
            whistles/ocarinas, jugs and lidded pots
            Items also made to order.
            _______________________________

            Tim Pickles

            New Orleans
            Purveyor of military uniforms
            and accoutrements
            BritcomHMP@...
            _____________________________

            Peter Monahan, Cobbler
            15 Colbeck cres.
            Alliston, ON L9R 1B7
            petemonahan@...
            705-435-0953

            I hobnail and heelplate boots and shoes,
            repair brogans and make ghillie brogues and
            Eastern Woodland mocassins to order.
            _________________________

            Regimental Supply

            Purveyors of tents, highland clothing and
            accoutrements for the re-enactor.
            Larry Lozon
            34 Greenock Drive
            Kitchener, Ontario
            Canada N2E 2H2
            (519) 741 - 1814
            lalozon@...

            ________________________________

            If you are a supplier of 1812 goods and a subscriber
            to this Yahoo Group please add your info to this list.

            This list is in alphabetical order.

            Please add and 'reply to all'

            Thank you LL ~ AdC
            Crown Forces
            Kitchener Ontario Canada

            .-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
          • Calvin Arnt
            Slight disagreement here, and just my own opinion. I found his prices to be VERY expensive. Yes, his work is great and the hat will probably last me all my
            Message 5 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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              Slight disagreement here, and just my own opinion. I found his prices
              to be VERY expensive. Yes, his work is great and the hat will
              probably last me all my reenacting life, but $500 for a beaver hat? I
              bit the bullet because I am an officer, but for an average soldier
              who wants a well-made round hat or something like it, I'd send them
              to Clearwater Hats. They have a large selection (I'm not sure about
              shakos), and you can special order too, like if you want an extra
              wide brim or whatever. Just my 2 cents.

              Calvin.

              --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Susan Spencer McLean <susan@m...>
              wrote:
              > My highest recommendation on repro hats goes to John McMicking of
              > Dundas, Ontario -- phone 905-627-7492. He is very busy, especially
              at
              > this time of year (he's making all of the hats for the Stratford
              and
              > Shaw Festivals), so you will need to be prepared to wait a bit, and
              he
              > is not inexpensive but also not overpriced -- he does produce
              excellent,
              > hand-done
            • Larry Lozon
              From: Calvin Arnt Slight disagreement here, and just my own opinion. I found his prices to be VERY expensive. ......but $500 for a beaver
              Message 6 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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                From: "Calvin Arnt" <arnt@...>

                Slight disagreement here, and just my own opinion. I found his prices
                to be VERY expensive. ......but $500 for a beaver hat? I'd send them
                to Clearwater Hats

                -----------------------

                Calvin,

                ~ and a lovely hat you have !!
                ......................


                Now, as per:
                http://www.clearwaterhats.com/furtradetwo.htm

                Clearwater Hats advertised a

                Chapeau Bras for $325 USA dollars

                Today, Tuesday, May 6, 2003 the amount

                $325.00 US Dollars = $458.64 Canadian Dollars

                and that is not counting in the shipping, the Canadian Goods and Services
                Tax
                or the Ontario Provincial Sales Tax. Then of course there is the Canadian
                Duties
                and Excise Taxes

                Thus John McMicking of Dundas, Ontario offers his Chapeau Bras cheaper?!?!


                And then we move on to the "1813 Tombstone Shako"

                I cannot find the 1813 Tombstone Shako on their website ?!?

                Did you?

                As that is the hat that was being asked about ......


                Larry Lozon
                "Who owns a number of McMicking Hats
                and well worth the monies paid"

                "Quality is remembered after Price is forgotten"


                =============================
                From: "Calvin Arnt" <arnt@...>

                > Slight disagreement here, and just my own opinion. I found his prices
                > to be VERY expensive. Yes, his work is great and the hat will
                > probably last me all my reenacting life, but $500 for a beaver hat? I
                > bit the bullet because I am an officer, but for an average soldier
                > who wants a well-made round hat or something like it, I'd send them
                > to Clearwater Hats. They have a large selection (I'm not sure about
                > shakos), and you can special order too, like if you want an extra
                > wide brim or whatever. Just my 2 cents.
                >
                > Calvin.
                > ------------------------
                > Susan Spencer McLean wrote:
                > >
                > > My highest recommendation on repro hats goes to John McMicking of
                > > Dundas, Ontario -- phone 905-627-7492. He is very busy, especially
                > at
                > > this time of year (he's making all of the hats for the Stratford
                > and
                > > Shaw Festivals), so you will need to be prepared to wait a bit, and
                > he
                > > is not inexpensive but also not overpriced -- he does produce
                > excellent,
                > > hand-done
                ------------------------
              • Annette and Lloyd
                BiLL , Please contact me off net ,and I will measure out my tombstone shako for you and as well give you two manufacturers names and addresses . Remember the
                Message 7 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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                  BiLL ,
                  Please contact me off net ,and I will measure out my tombstone shako for
                  you and as well give you two manufacturers names and addresses .
                  Remember the School of the Soldier ,I had the Lherbetts packs with me .
                  Lloyd Gower
                  agower@....
                • Susan Spencer McLean
                  Calvin, as I said in my original notes, John McMicking is not inexpensive. But he is by no means overpriced. I invite you to explore the prices of similar
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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                    Calvin, as I said in my original notes, John McMicking is not
                    inexpensive. But he is by no means overpriced. I invite you to explore
                    the prices of similar quality and construction hats of all types (i.e.
                    completely hand-made, to order, with customs sizing and finishes (also
                    hand-done), from finest quality materials, made to be indistinguishable
                    from the originals in terms of techniques used, quality produced, and
                    types of materials used -- that are built to last a lifetime and more)
                    anywhere in the world. In London (England), top hats of a similar
                    quality to the shako that you mention go for a minimum of 400 pounds
                    sterling (about CDN$800 today), and are usually priced closer to 500
                    pounds (CDN$1000) each. The fact that the London hat shop who supplies
                    the Queen, Prince Chas., the rest of the Royal Family, and all those who
                    attend Ascot in their proper hats and toppers thinks highly enough of
                    John's work to send their most difficult repairs to him -- from England!
                    -- will attest to the quality of his work and the respect that he has
                    garnered on the worldwide stage of hatters.

                    John's beaver hats start at CDN$300 and go up from there -- apparently
                    your shako must have some additional features to the basic beaver model.
                    Of course, his wool hats are priced in a lower range.

                    All of that being said, Clearwater Hats does indeed produce a nice hat
                    of very respectable quality. But comparing them to a McMicking handmade
                    hat is like comparing apples and oranges.

                    2 cents from my end.

                    -- Sioux
                    Mrs. McLean's Mercantile
                  • JGIL1812@aol.com
                    In a message dated 5/6/03 11:29:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ... To One and All, There is no comparison. John s shako s are superb! JG/RE [Non-text portions of
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 6, 2003
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                      In a message dated 5/6/03 11:29:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
                      susan@... writes:

                      > But comparing them to a McMicking handmade
                      > hat is like comparing apples and oranges.
                      >

                      To One and All,

                      There is no comparison. John's shako's are superb!

                      JG/RE


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Calvin Arnt
                      Dear Larry and Susan. Thank you Mr. Lorzon on my hat; alas, that is only how people know me right now: the guy with the big hat. For both of you, we have to
                      Message 10 of 15 , May 7, 2003
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                        Dear Larry and Susan.

                        Thank you Mr. Lorzon on my hat; alas, that is only how people know me
                        right now: the guy with the big hat.

                        For both of you, we have to watch we are talking about the same
                        thing. This original thread was about shakos and I don't own one, so
                        I can't compare. Also, I wasn't talking about Chapeau Bras. Those are
                        what Peter wore on the weekend; my hat is called a Round hat or some
                        other varient at times depending on the region.

                        Comparing round hats between McMicking and Clearwater, there is a
                        difference. First, let me say that Clearwater could not produce the
                        exact hat that I got from McMicking. They could not get the brim as
                        wide, and mine ended up being 3 1/2 inches wide. However, they could
                        do a round hat with a 2 1/4 inch brim, and when you compare the cost
                        of those, I paid in total $511 CDN for my McMicking hat, and
                        Clearwater could have made me that beaver hat with 2 1/4 inch brim
                        for about $150 US. These prices are about a year old, so may have
                        increased some by now.

                        In no way do I want this to mean I am dissatisfied with my hat or its
                        quality. I just think it was too expensive, and that is my opinion
                        Sue. If yours is different, then you are welcome to your opinion as
                        well, but mine is that he is overpriced. Cheers!

                        Calvin.
                      • Larry Lozon
                        From: Calvin Arnt Dear Mr. Arent I agree, You are the guy with the big hat! And as well YOU have to watch that YOU are talking about the
                        Message 11 of 15 , May 7, 2003
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                          From: "Calvin Arnt" <arnt@...>

                          Dear Mr. Arent

                          I agree, You are the guy with the big hat!

                          And as well YOU have to watch that YOU are talking about the same
                          thing as well.......

                          The original thread WAS about shakos and you state that you don't own one,
                          so you can't compare, therefore should not have posted to this thread since
                          your
                          email was about another hat all together.

                          My post of a Chapeau was an example to disprove your price comparison, which
                          it did.

                          Ms. Sioux and I know that your hat is called a 'Round hat' as I own three
                          of them and she sells them

                          Your comparison of pricing is not valid, as you say that Clearwater cannot
                          manufacture the hat you required. I know you must have researched the hat
                          you required and wanted it to be a exact copy of an historical hat so no
                          matter what you paid, it was the historical hat you ended up with. It would
                          be interesting to read your research on your hat, possibly you could give me
                          a copy?

                          'Overpriced' is a very harsh word when some one makes something by hand, I
                          wonder how much that works out to an hour?

                          Always Your Most Humble & Obedient Servant

                          Larry L o z o n
                        • Craig Williams
                          ... Actually Calvin, I believe that Peter wears a cocked hat or bi-corn. It is a heavy hat with a stiff foundation. As compared to a chapeau bras (fr. arm
                          Message 12 of 15 , May 7, 2003
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                            >
                            > For both of you, we have to watch we are talking about the same
                            > thing. This original thread was about shakos and I don't own one, so
                            > I can't compare. Also, I wasn't talking about Chapeau Bras. Those are
                            > what Peter wore on the weekend;

                            Actually Calvin, I believe that Peter wears a cocked hat or bi-corn. It is a
                            heavy hat with a stiff foundation.
                            As compared to a chapeau bras (fr. "arm hat" literally), so named because
                            when it's not in use one can flatten it and tuck it under ones arm.

                            Craig
                          • Bill Jordan
                            I did not mean for this to be hot or controversial topic. All I wanted was information concerning the particulars of the 1813 Tombstone Shako. Being a FNG to
                            Message 13 of 15 , May 7, 2003
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                              I did not mean for this to be hot or controversial topic. All I
                              wanted was information concerning the particulars of the 1813
                              Tombstone Shako. Being a FNG to this time period, I was trying
                              garner as much info as possible. I am having a hard time finding the
                              right reference materials to begin searching the construction
                              techniques, dimensions, etc. I appreciate all the response from
                              everyone. No intention to start a heated discussion. Please let's
                              limit thread to the construction/dimensions of the 1813 shako.
                            • Calvin Arnt
                              Dearest Mr. Lorzon. thank you for your reply. May I interject at the start that my last name is not Arent but rather Arnt. From the original German Arndt
                              Message 14 of 15 , May 8, 2003
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                                Dearest Mr. Lorzon.

                                thank you for your reply. May I interject at the start that my last
                                name is not "Arent" but rather "Arnt." From the original
                                German "Arndt" the English equivalent being Arnold. My Grandpa
                                decided to Anglocize it when we immigrated to Canada, but taking out
                                the "d" didn't change the pronunciation. Anyhoo....

                                I spoke up about this issue because a comment was made about
                                McMicking that I disagreed with. I said, that although I don't own a
                                shako, I can make a comment if you want to compare round hats. And I
                                did that. I wasn't confusing anything, at least not intentially, but
                                I recongnize that the thread did get a little muddy and I am partly
                                to blame for that. I still stand behind my comment on price.

                                As far as the research for my hat, well take a look at the men at
                                arms book for BNA 1793-1815. Other than that, I can see this issue
                                turning into another debate, which I care not to have, so good luck
                                with all that. Cheers!

                                Calvin.
                              • Tom Apple
                                ... Hello Bill, We happen to have one of Tim Wilson s 1813 shako s in stock at the moment. It is a size 7-1/8 to 7-1/4. I don t know if Tim Wilson is the
                                Message 15 of 15 , May 8, 2003
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                                  --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Jordan" <wavey1us@y...> wrote:
                                  >Also,
                                  > suggestions as to who makes the best repro.

                                  Hello Bill,

                                  We happen to have one of Tim Wilson's 1813 shako's in stock at the
                                  moment. It is a size 7-1/8 to 7-1/4. I don't know if Tim Wilson is the
                                  "best" but his research and workmanship are top notch as he is
                                  classicly trained as a journeyman cordwainer at Colonial Williamsburg.
                                  I believe it is based off of a hat in Troiani's collection.

                                  The shako as well as other ca. 1812 accouterments are located near the
                                  bottom of this page:
                                  http://www.tuckahoetradingco.com/leather.html

                                  Regards,

                                  Tom Apple
                                  Tuckahoe Trading Company
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