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Re: Significant Battles of US History

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  • Ed Seufert
    ... at North ... 44th ... viewed the ... create a ... may ships ... Tim, I beg to differ. The bombardment of Ft McHenry had already started when the British
    Message 1 of 22 , Mar 21, 2003
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      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, BritcomHMP@a... wrote:
      > In a message dated 3/21/2003 11:28:48 AM Central Standard Time,
      > ciefranche21e@m... writes:
      >
      >
      > Yes, the probes towards the fort happened after the British victory
      at North
      > Point, however Ross was killed during that action and Brooke (of the
      44th
      > next senior officer) was a bit unsure of what to do after he had
      viewed the
      > defenses Adm. Cochraine basically told him retreat and we will
      create a
      > diversion, attack and you are on your own (because as you said not
      may ships
      > could get close enough to be realy effective).
      >
      > Cheers
      >
      > Tim
      >
      Tim,

      I beg to differ. The bombardment of Ft McHenry had already started
      when the British forces (minus Ross) approached the land defenses on
      the east side of Baltimore. It was quickly ascertained that over 100
      pieces of artillery were positioned along this line and an attempt was
      made to probe what was believed to be a hanging left flank. The
      defenses bent back along the north side of Baltimore and positioned
      there were at least two brigades of infantry, one of which was the
      same one that had bloodied the British at North Point.

      Brooke called a council and decided to attack the defenses at night
      with an assault column through the centre of the American line and
      requested that a diversion be created by the Royal Navy to pull out
      some of the estimated 12-15000 American troops.

      The Royal Navy was well aware of Ft McHenry and due to the shallowness
      of the Patapsco River that it would not be able to get the larger
      ships in a position for a bombardment. (Cockburn had probed and
      mapped the Patapsco the year before.) Thus the use of Bomb vessels
      and the rocket ship to reduce the fort. The one time that they did
      attempt to close with the fort was to try and hit the southern flank
      of the defenses that faced Brooke. The fort quickly proved it was not
      ready to give up and the vessels retired to their former positions.

      For the diversion, the Royal Navy assembled a small flotilla of ship's
      boats and other vessels and attempted a landing to the right flank and
      rear of the Fort McHenry peninsula sometime after midnight. Half the
      flotilla got lost when the boats had to cross a chain of sunken
      vessels in the south branch. Those that did make it through were
      spotted and the assault was repulsed with no boat reaching the shore.

      Meanwhile Brooke had already changed his mind and decided that it
      wasn't worth the human loss to capture Baltimore. The assault column
      which was already in position was turned around and started marching
      back to North Point. He notified Cochrane of this decision. Shortly
      after this, Cochrane's message arrived about the failure of the
      diversion. Brooke's message to Cochrane convinced him that it was no
      longer any point to the bombardment as the navy would not be able to
      carry the town without the help of the army.

      The bombardment of Ft McHenry continued until 7AM on the morning of
      the 14th by which time, British troops were well on their way back to
      the anchorage.

      Ed Seufert
      LCpl 1812 Royal Marines
    • ggalloway5@aol.com
      Dear Dave: I agree with you that The Battle of Plattsburg was, indeed, a battle that should have been included. It was as significant as Arnold s Battle of
      Message 2 of 22 , Mar 21, 2003
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        Dear Dave:
        I agree with you that The Battle of Plattsburg was, indeed, a battle that
        should have been included. It was as significant as Arnold's Battle of
        Valcour Island (although, I don't know if that was included either).
        Historians continue to make the mistake of dismissing the War of 1812 as a
        war that should be ignored by the student of history. And yet, this war was
        the continuation and conclusion of the original revolutionary effort against
        the British. MacDonough's defense was brilliant and his victory stymied any
        attempt to even discuss secession at Hartford. This war jump-started
        American nationalism and the nation's sense of destiny. Macomb and
        MacDonough may not have their courageous feats listed in the pages of our
        history books (outside of a token paragraph), but their place in history is
        firmly entrenched in the minds and hearts of true students. Not a bad legacy
        after all.
        George Galloway


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Brian Howard
        I am going to put on the table for this discussion the Battle of Craney Island , June 22 of 1813 in Hampton Roads Virginia. Admiral Cockburn had assembled a
        Message 3 of 22 , Mar 21, 2003
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          I am going to put on the table for this discussion the
          "Battle of Craney Island", June 22 of 1813 in Hampton
          Roads Virginia. Admiral Cockburn had assembled a
          force of 2500 soldiers, sailors and marines with the
          goal of capturing the town of Portsmouth and the City
          of Norfolk along with the USF Constellation which was
          bottled up in Norfolk harbor.

          The significant point to make here is that a force of
          approximately 600 Virginia Militia, 100 sailors and
          marines from the Constellation and about 30 US
          regulars from the 20th Infantry Regiment defended the
          island. Cochburn had split his forces into two groups,
          one to assault the island across a narrow bridge and
          the second to assault the island in a boat landing.

          Due to the accurate canon fire from the seven pieces
          of artillery on the island, four of which belonged to
          the Portsmouth Light Artillery, the British forces
          never made it to within musket range. Some of the
          militia did wade out to get a shot off at the
          retreating British. By the way, seems the British
          officers blamed the failure of the naval assault on
          the three to four feet of mud near the island. Seems
          that none of the wading militia had a problem with
          this mud.

          Unfortunately for the town of Hampton, across the
          roads, the British did attack and capture the town
          three days later after driving off the militia that
          were encamped on the shore south of Hampton. Seems
          they just did not have the same resolve.

          One other point to make is the only casualty on the
          American side at Craney Island was the guard on the
          magazine. Seems he entered the magazine with a open
          candle which sent him and the magazine up. He was
          found a great distance away stripped nude by the force
          of the blast.

          Your Humble Servant
          BAH
          2nd Virginia Regiment, 1813-1815
          http://members.cox.net/2varegiment



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        • dancingbobd@webtv.net
          Great story! THANKS for sharing it. Bob
          Message 4 of 22 , Mar 21, 2003
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            Great story!

            THANKS for sharing it.

            Bob
          • mdhistorybooks@aol.com
            In a message dated 3/21/03 6:46:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, ... How many times was a magazine explosion an important part of a battle? Explosions at: York in
            Message 5 of 22 , Mar 24, 2003
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              In a message dated 3/21/03 6:46:59 PM Pacific Standard Time,
              chippokes@... writes:


              > One other point to make is the only casualty on the
              > American side at Craney Island was the guard on the
              > magazine. Seems he entered the magazine with a open
              > candle which sent him and the magazine up. He was
              > found a great distance away stripped nude by the force
              > of the blast.
              >
              >

              How many times was a magazine explosion an important part of a battle?
              Explosions at: York in 1813, Ft. Erie in 1814 and now Craney Island.
              Any explosions I missed?


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • ANDREW BATEMAN
              ... Almeida. Andrew Bateman, 41st Foot [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 22 , Mar 24, 2003
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                >How many times was a magazine explosion an important part of a battle?
                >Explosions at: York in 1813, Ft. Erie in 1814 and now Craney Island.
                >Any explosions I missed?


                Almeida.

                Andrew Bateman, 41st Foot


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ray Hobbs
                L/Cpl Bateman - Almeida (1810) was not exactly a Significant Battle of US History ! But we all know who blew that place up anyway - twas Richard Sharpe
                Message 7 of 22 , Mar 24, 2003
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                  L/Cpl Bateman - Almeida (1810) was not exactly a "Significant Battle of
                  US History"! But we all know who blew that place up anyway - 'twas
                  Richard Sharpe (Sharpe's Gold) ;->)
                  Ray Hobbs
                  41st Regt. of Foot



                  On Monday, March 24, 2003, at 09:55 AM, ANDREW BATEMAN wrote:

                  >
                  > >How many times was a magazine explosion an important part of a battle?
                  > >Explosions at: York in 1813, Ft. Erie in 1814 and now Craney Island.
                  > >Any explosions I missed?
                  >
                  >
                  > Almeida.
                  >
                  > Andrew Bateman, 41st Foot
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  <image.tiff>
                  >
                  >
                  > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
                  > of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                  > THOUSANDS of square miles...
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Len Heidebrecht
                  Actually there were two signifigant magazine explosions at the Battle of York; the mobile magazine and the grand magazine. Cheers, Len ... battle? ... Island.
                  Message 8 of 22 , Mar 24, 2003
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                    Actually there were two signifigant magazine explosions at the Battle
                    of York; the mobile magazine and the grand magazine.
                    Cheers,
                    Len
                    --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, ANDREW BATEMAN <abateman@f...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > >How many times was a magazine explosion an important part of a
                    battle?
                    > >Explosions at: York in 1813, Ft. Erie in 1814 and now Craney
                    Island.
                    > >Any explosions I missed?
                    >
                    >
                    > Almeida.
                    >
                    > Andrew Bateman, 41st Foot
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • mdhistorybooks@aol.com
                    I forgot the explosion at the Washington Arsenal during the Burning of D.C. . I think that was a well filled with powder kegs, though. Same end result, though.
                    Message 9 of 22 , Mar 24, 2003
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                      I forgot the explosion at the Washington Arsenal during the Burning of D.C. .
                      I think that was a well filled with powder kegs, though. Same end result,
                      though. We have to remember that these folks didn't use flash guards, however
                      ....:)

                      Ted Yeatman
                      1st Md. Rifle Bn.
                      Fell's Point Rifles


                      In a message dated 3/24/03 4:21:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                      lheidebrecht@... writes:


                      > Actually there were two signifigant magazine explosions at the Battle
                      > of York; the mobile magazine and the grand magazine.
                      > Cheers,
                      > Len
                      > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, ANDREW BATEMAN <abateman@f...>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > >How many times was a magazine explosion an important part of a
                      > battle?
                      > > >Explosions at: York in 1813, Ft. Erie in 1814 and now Craney
                      > Island.
                      > > >Any explosions I missed?
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Almeida.
                      > >
                      > > Andrew Bateman, 41st Foot
                      > >
                      >




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                      In a message dated 3/24/2003 11:21:39 PM Central Standard Time, ... No, THEY used a manual and trained ;-) [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      Message 10 of 22 , Mar 24, 2003
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                        In a message dated 3/24/2003 11:21:39 PM Central Standard Time,
                        mdhistorybooks@... writes:


                        > We have to remember that these folks didn't use flash guards, however
                        > ....:)
                        >

                        No, THEY used a manual and trained ;-)


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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