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Re: [WarOf1812] Commissary Tunic

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  • Kevin Windsor
    ... Nope they are/were breeches and just below the knee the material changes. Very ingenious actually because the boots hide all of the other material. I
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 22, 2003
      BritcomHMP@... wrote:

      > kevin.windsor@... writes:
      >
      > (actually breeches turned into trouser)
      >
      > Did you get that the wrong way round Kevin? I can see how trousers (ankle
      > length and loose) could be turned into breeches (knee length and tight) but
      > not vice versa!
      >

      Nope they are/were breeches and just below the knee the material changes. Very ingenious actually because the boots hide all of the other material. I have never seen
      this on anything else before. Really nice coat!

      >
      >
      >

      That's the stuff. It is silver, but the typical ADC stuff. He has the embroidery on the cuff, collar, but elsewhere is twist.

      >
      > When you say lace there Kevin do you mean embroidery? Staff lace (OTTOMH) is
      > a check with a diagonal vellum and zig zag velum outer stripes inside a
      > scalloped edge, the embroidery is a saw edged scroll with a 'frog drop' on
      > the outer end, and yes, I can supply it!
    • BritcomHMP@aol.com
      In a message dated 2/22/2003 5:11:30 PM Central Standard Time, ... Aha! I have, all now becomes clear! They are pantaloons. I have a pair rather like this but
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 22, 2003
        In a message dated 2/22/2003 5:11:30 PM Central Standard Time,
        kevin.windsor@... writes:


        > > Did you get that the wrong way round Kevin? I can see how trousers (ankle
        > > length and loose) could be turned into breeches (knee length and tight)
        > but
        > > not vice versa!
        > >
        >
        > Nope they are/were breeches and just below the knee the material changes.
        > Very ingenious actually because the boots hide all of the other material.
        > I have never seen
        > this on anything else before

        Aha! I have, all now becomes clear! They are pantaloons.
        I have a pair rather like this but they are leather from the knees up which
        gives an obvious reason why the material would change. I would be interested
        to know weather the material below the knees is the same as that above,
        netherwear is so rare and difficult to get to examine.
        Do the buttons continue down the leg below the knee or are they laced? Or
        (most exciting of all) are they kerseymere with no fastenings at all? I have
        never actually seen an example of that kind for our period.

        Cheers

        Tim


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Kevin Windsor
        I didn t think they were pantaloons because they didn t have the stirrup, but they are rather tight looking. I am not familiar with kerseymere, but I will take
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 22, 2003
          I didn't think they were pantaloons because they didn't have the stirrup, but they are rather tight looking.
          I am not familiar with kerseymere, but I will take some good pics of the bottoms. Lorina you have seen them. Do they look like kerseymere to you?

          BritcomHMP@... wrote:

          >
          > Aha! I have, all now becomes clear! They are pantaloons.
          > I have a pair rather like this but they are leather from the knees up which
          > gives an obvious reason why the material would change. I would be interested
          > to know weather the material below the knees is the same as that above,
          > netherwear is so rare and difficult to get to examine.
          > Do the buttons continue down the leg below the knee or are they laced? Or
          > (most exciting of all) are they kerseymere with no fastenings at all? I have
          > never actually seen an example of that kind for our period.
          >
          > Cheers
          >
          > Tim
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • BritcomHMP@aol.com
          In a message dated 2/22/2003 8:17:30 PM Central Standard Time, ... Pantaloons don t have a stirrup, that s overalls and (usually but not always) trousers.
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 22, 2003
            In a message dated 2/22/2003 8:17:30 PM Central Standard Time,
            kevin.windsor@... writes:


            > I didn't think they were pantaloons because they didn't have the stirrup,
            > but they are rather tight looking.
            > I am not familiar with kerseymere, but I will take some good pics of the
            > bottoms. Lorina you have seen them. Do they look like kerseymere to you?
            >
            >

            Pantaloons don't have a stirrup, that's overalls and (usually but not always)
            trousers. Pantaloons are usually held down by being drawn tight around the
            lower calf.

            Kerseymere looks like a doeskin but is a jersey weave so that it stretches in
            two directions, when leg wear was made with it, it was cut on the bias and
            the cloth will cling to the leg with no wrinkles (just like to old paintings)!

            I have handled breeches made in it but they were c 1870 so the cut was very
            different.

            Cheers

            Tim


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • celer_et_audax_7_60th <fullerfamily@spri
            ... Commissary s ... Hello, Dave, the first question one would get in our period would be what s a tunic? Unless we re watching ZULU, the term would have
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 23, 2003
              --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "David Lynch <dave8365@a...>"
              <dave8365@a...> wrote:
              > Hi all,
              >
              > I am attempting to find details for a British Assistant
              Commissary's
              > tunic.


              Hello, Dave, the first question one would get in our period would be
              "what's a tunic?" Unless we're watching ZULU, the term would have
              been coat, or if it had short (or no) tails, and was cut high,
              jacket. "Tunic" is a much later term in the British Army. (Crimean
              War, I think.) Remember, the army doesn't like more than one disaster
              in a day. Looks bad in the newspapers and upsets civilians at their
              breakfast. :^)

              RF


              "Careful! Pot that chap somebody! Good fellow, good fellow!"
              (Commissary Dalton, ZULU, 1964)
            • David Lynch <dave8365@aol.com>
              Hi Kevin, Thanks so much for the kind offer of pictures - I gladly accept. And if, at some point, I find myself travelling from the left coast to Niagra
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 23, 2003
                Hi Kevin,

                Thanks so much for the kind offer of pictures - I gladly accept. And
                if, at some point, I find myself travelling from the left coast to
                Niagra Falls, I will also happily drop in the museum!

                After having the chance to see the photographs, I would be greatful
                for a continued discussion vis-a-vis the lace.

                And thanks for your input too, Tim.

                Cheers,
                Dave Lynch

                --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Windsor <kevin.windsor@s...>
                wrote:
                > Dave, I have one at work. It is from the 1820's, but is still the
                same make up of our period.
                > Just off the top. It is blue long skirted single breasted with
                white trouser (actually breeches turned into trouser) I am not sure
                about the lace since this guy was also
                > the ADC to the Gov General so he has the scroll lace (which I think
                Tim sells?)
                > I will take some pictures of it. BTW this guy was a commissary
                officer and not a civilian. He was a Captain.
                > I will take some photos and post them to the list or if there is
                not enough room I will email them to you.
                > Or you can hop on a plane fly to Niagara Falls and look at it
                yourself?
                > It is only $3 admission!
                >
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