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Re: How common was hay?

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  • ebclemson <ebclemson@webtv.net>
    ... Scott, the only records I have found where bedsacks were issued in the U.States Army was in regards to Hospital stores. I can t find my papers on this
    Message 1 of 22 , Jan 1, 2003
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      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Raymond Hobbs <ray.hobbs@s...> wrote:
      > Scott et al.
      > I recall reading the journal of one US soldier who said that after a few
      > months of campaign he had gotten used to sleeping on the soft side of a
      > pine board! Don't have the reference at hand but I'll dig it out.
      > Anyway, this suggests that on campaign, the lads dossed down on anything
      > remotely comfortable.
      > Ray Hobbs
      > 41st
      >
      > Scott Jeznach wrote:
      >
      > I haven't seen any mention of soldiers in the US army being issued bed
      > sacks/ticks as individuals which they might take with them on campaign.
      > I must admit that this isfar from my area of expertise. Can anyone shed
      > more light on this?
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      Scott, the only records I have found where bedsacks were issued in the U.States Army was in regards to Hospital stores. I can't find my papers on this right now, but believe that sheets and bed sacks were issued to garrison hospitals.

      Dave B.
    • nappingcrow <nappingcrow@hotmail.com>
      ... the U.States Army was in regards to Hospital stores. I can t find my papers on this right now, but believe that sheets and bed sacks were issued to
      Message 2 of 22 , Jan 1, 2003
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        > Scott, the only records I have found where bedsacks were issued in
        the U.States Army was in regards to Hospital stores. I can't find
        my papers on this right now, but believe that sheets and bed sacks
        were issued to garrison hospitals.
        >
        > Dave B.

        In "These Relics of Barbarism: A History of Furniture in Barracks and
        Guardhouses of the United States Army, 1800-1880" the author (D. A.
        Clary) quotes Henry Dearborn (April 28th, 1801) as follows:
        "One truss of straw weighing thirty-six pounds, is allowed for each
        palliass for two men," and states that this appeared in the 1808
        regulations.

        I realize this isn't a receipt or orderly book, but wouldn't this
        seem to imply that bedsacks or bed-ticks were generally expected in
        winter quarters when the campaigning had settled down?

        Thanks,
        Brian S.
      • David S. Mallinak
        ... For use of straw in the Rev war period. It was part of the Von Stueben procedures in the American Rev War army to have the pioneers to mark out the camp
        Message 3 of 22 , Jan 1, 2003
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          > The use of straw during campaigns in the field is probably
          > "rarely happened" occurrence. It's something that just became
          > traditional with reenactors since the Civil War Centennial and
          > Rev War Bicentennial.

          For use of straw in the Rev war period. It was part of the Von Stueben
          procedures in the American Rev War army to have the pioneers to mark out
          the camp and drop off tool to cut the grass. The troops doing the cutting
          for bedding. Von Stueben also recommends that if the Army is going to be in
          the same place for several days, that on sunny days, that the camp tents be
          taken down, to air out/turn over the straw/bedding.

          The use of straw (defined as dried field grasses) would depend on the time
          of year and the state of the field in which the army was camping.

          HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!

          Your humble and obedient servant,
          David S Mallinak
        • ebclemson <ebclemson@webtv.net>
          ... Brian, I already quoted the regulation allowing a truss of straw in one of my previous notes. That information came out of my original 1813 regulations.
          Message 4 of 22 , Jan 1, 2003
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            --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "nappingcrow <nappingcrow@h...>" <nappingcrow@h...> wrote:
            > > Scott, the only records I have found where bedsacks were issued in
            > the U.States Army was in regards to Hospital stores. I can't find
            > my papers on this right now, but believe that sheets and bed sacks
            > were issued to garrison hospitals.
            > >
            > > Dave B.
            >
            > In "These Relics of Barbarism: A History of Furniture in Barracks and
            > Guardhouses of the United States Army, 1800-1880" the author (D. A.
            > Clary) quotes Henry Dearborn (April 28th, 1801) as follows:
            > "One truss of straw weighing thirty-six pounds, is allowed for each
            > palliass for two men," and states that this appeared in the 1808
            > regulations.
            >
            > I realize this isn't a receipt or orderly book, but wouldn't this
            > seem to imply that bedsacks or bed-ticks were generally expected in
            > winter quarters when the campaigning had settled down?
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Brian S.

            Brian,

            I already quoted the regulation allowing a "truss of straw" in one of my previous notes. That information came out of my original 1813 regulations.

            What does "Pilliass" mean?

            No, I do not believe that the issue of straw indicates that bedsacks were necessarily issued. Barracks appears to had bed sacks issued to, but again, I have never seen bed sacks issued to individual soldiers. It appears that in garrisons, and "barracks" that bedsacks were purchased or made by company tailors and probably staid with that location, and not with the soldiers.

            In my previous post, I quoted the regulations on inspecting the straw while the army is moving and in camp. Straw was issued, but this does not imply that every man was running around with his own little bedsack.

            My wife has come across first hand accounts of Officers wives writing about traveling with the army. At least two of them indicated they slept on bear skins. Apparently, even American officers did not always use bedsacks on a march.


            Adiu, Dave Bennett. 1st U.States Infy.
          • Mark Dickerson
            In modern terms dried field grasses would be hay. Straw is the left over stems of harvested wheat, rye, beans, etc. Mark D ... The use of straw (defined as
            Message 5 of 22 , Jan 1, 2003
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              In modern terms "dried field grasses" would be hay. Straw is the left over stems of harvested wheat, rye, beans, etc.
              Mark D
              ----- Original Message -----

              The use of straw (defined as dried field grasses) would depend on the time
              of year and the state of the field in which the army was camping.




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • nappingcrow <nappingcrow@hotmail.com>
              Hi Dave, Palliasses (From French word for straw, variants palliasse, paillasse, etc.) were sacks or mattresses filled with straw, and seem to have a history in
              Message 6 of 22 , Jan 2, 2003
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                Hi Dave,

                Palliasses (From French word for straw, variants palliasse,
                paillasse, etc.) were sacks or mattresses filled with straw, and seem
                to have a history in the British army predating the American
                Revolution, and also seem to have been inherited by the American
                army.

                I didn't mean to imply I thought bedsacks were issued/used on the
                march, but rather that I was wondering whether they were expected in
                winter quarters - when the army had theoretically settled down in
                huts. (My use of "huts" here following Clary's, and different from
                the more permanent "barracks".) As quoted, they'd have been used for
                two men rather than one to each.

                I also have a copy of the 1813 regulations, and they omit the
                word "palliass" which was used in 1808. Whether this is because they
                weren't used, or because they were assumed/implied as routine items I
                do not know. I haven't seen a first hand account of them, so I'm
                curious about what others think.

                I haven't seen much on what campaign life was like for officer's
                wives in the American army of the time - when's your wife going to
                publish? :-)

                If you can track down a copy of "These Relics of Barbarism" it's
                worth it.

                Thanks, and Happy New Year
                Brian S.
              • Brian Howard
                A note from the Southern theatre. In an order book of the 5th Va militia dated May, 1814 to Nov, 1814, the use of boards for tent floors was preferred over
                Message 7 of 22 , Jan 2, 2003
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                  A note from the Southern theatre. In an order book of
                  the 5th Va militia dated May, 1814 to Nov, 1814, the
                  use of boards for tent floors was preferred over
                  straw. Straw cost company funds and the boards lasted
                  much longer than the staw. This was for the units
                  camped around the Norfolk and Portsmouth area of
                  Virginia.

                  Brian
                  2nd Va Regiment, 1813-1815

                  --- Raymond Hobbs <ray.hobbs@...> wrote:
                  > Scott et al.
                  > I recall reading the journal of one US soldier who
                  > said that after a few
                  > months of campaign he had gotten used to sleeping on
                  > the soft side of a
                  > pine board! Don't have the reference at hand but
                  > I'll dig it out.
                  > Anyway, this suggests that on campaign, the lads
                  > dossed down on anything
                  > remotely comfortable.
                  > Ray Hobbs
                  > 41st
                  >
                  > Scott Jeznach wrote:
                  >
                  > I haven't seen any mention of soldiers in the US
                  > army being issued bed
                  > sacks/ticks as individuals which they might take
                  > with them on campaign.
                  > I must admit that this isfar from my area of
                  > expertise. Can anyone shed
                  > more light on this?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  > removed]
                  >
                  >


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                • ebclemson <ebclemson@webtv.net>
                  ... Hi Brian, Great information thanks. Yes, I ll track down the book you mentioned. I saw that Feltoe had also mentioned Palliasses in British issues. I ve
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jan 2, 2003
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                    --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "nappingcrow <nappingcrow@h...>" <nappingcrow@h...> wrote:

                    Hi Brian,

                    Great information thanks. Yes, I'll track down the book you mentioned. I saw that Feltoe had also mentioned "Palliasses" in British issues.

                    I've seen "huts" used more than "barracks".... I may be wrong here, but from the American records I've read...it appears huts were single story and barracks were two story? But, Hay <g>.....I'm guessing.

                    This has been a great thread on HAY and STRAW. Every thing you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask.

                    By the way, "MAKE HAY WHILE THE SUN SHINES"....is a great period phrase. Col. Jacob Kingsbury, 1st Infantry used this in a letter before the War.

                    As far as the accounts of women ...1) Lydia's Bacon's account is good one. Her husband was in the 4th U.States Infantry.
                    2) My wife publish? Actually, she has but not this particular subject though she has given presentations on this subject.

                    3) Norman Caldwell wrote some very fine
                    articles on Civilians during the war era.

                    Dave B.


                    > Hi Dave,
                    >
                    > Palliasses (From French word for straw, variants palliasse,
                    > paillasse, etc.) were sacks or mattresses filled with straw, and seem
                    > to have a history in the British army predating the American
                    > Revolution, and also seem to have been inherited by the American
                    > army.
                    >
                    > I didn't mean to imply I thought bedsacks were issued/used on the
                    > march, but rather that I was wondering whether they were expected in
                    > winter quarters - when the army had theoretically settled down in
                    > huts. (My use of "huts" here following Clary's, and different from
                    > the more permanent "barracks".) As quoted, they'd have been used for
                    > two men rather than one to each.
                    >
                    > I also have a copy of the 1813 regulations, and they omit the
                    > word "palliass" which was used in 1808. Whether this is because they
                    > weren't used, or because they were assumed/implied as routine items I
                    > do not know. I haven't seen a first hand account of them, so I'm
                    > curious about what others think.
                    >
                    > I haven't seen much on what campaign life was like for officer's
                    > wives in the American army of the time - when's your wife going to
                    > publish? :-)
                    >
                    > If you can track down a copy of "These Relics of Barbarism" it's
                    > worth it.
                    >
                    > Thanks, and Happy New Year
                    > Brian S.
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