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How common was hay?

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  • Larry Lozon
    From: scott mcmahon ... howoften would the army have actualy had hay or straw _____________ Returns and records state that
    Message 1 of 22 , Dec 31, 2002
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      From: "scott mcmahon" <mountedranger@...>



      ... howoften would the army have actualy had hay or straw
      _____________

      Returns and records state that mattresses in forts were stuffed
      with straw and that it had to be changed on a regular basis.

      I doubt if they would have taken it on the march.

      Larry Lozon
      AdC ~ Crown Forces
    • scott mcmahon
      Returns and records state that mattresses in forts were stuffed with straw and that it had to be changed on a regular basis. I doubt if they would have taken
      Message 2 of 22 , Dec 31, 2002
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        Returns and records state that mattresses in forts were stuffed
        with straw and that it had to be changed on a regular basis.

        I doubt if they would have taken it on the march.

        Larry Lozon
        AdC ~ Crown Forces

        Thanks for the reply... I assumed they had straw while in a permanent
        encampment/garrison but I was questioning the use of straw while on
        campaign. Regarding my comment on paved roads, stone monuments and
        factories/plants... it was spoken in jest. Here in Texas we have a site
        almost identical to New Orleans- it's called San Jacinto. The only problem
        with San Jacinto is we don't have the quarter like they do in New Orleans!
        Hope everyone has a great New Year.
        Sincerely,
        Scott McMahon


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      • HQ93rd@aol.com
        In a message dated 31/12/02 8:03:55 AM, mountedranger@hotmail.com writes:
        Message 3 of 22 , Dec 31, 2002
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          In a message dated 31/12/02 8:03:55 AM, mountedranger@... writes:

          << Regarding my comment on paved roads, stone monuments and
          factories/plants... it was spoken in jest. Here in Texas we have a site
          almost identical to New Orleans- it's called San Jacinto. The only problem
          with San Jacinto is we don't have the quarter like they do in New Orleans!
          Hope everyone has a great New Year.
          Sincerely,
          Scott McMahon >>

          And I always enjoyed the Mexican Army charging the south wall of the Alamo
          coming through the Menger Hotel, and Travis dying inside the Post Office.
          At least San Antonio has the River Walk...
          ;-)

          B
          93rd SHRoFLHU
          THE Thin Red Line
          www.93rdhighlanders.com
        • Raymond Hobbs
          Scott et al. I recall reading the journal of one US soldier who said that after a few months of campaign he had gotten used to sleeping on the soft side of a
          Message 4 of 22 , Dec 31, 2002
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            Scott et al.
            I recall reading the journal of one US soldier who said that after a few
            months of campaign he had gotten used to sleeping on the soft side of a
            pine board! Don't have the reference at hand but I'll dig it out.
            Anyway, this suggests that on campaign, the lads dossed down on anything
            remotely comfortable.
            Ray Hobbs
            41st

            Scott Jeznach wrote:

            I haven't seen any mention of soldiers in the US army being issued bed
            sacks/ticks as individuals which they might take with them on campaign.
            I must admit that this isfar from my area of expertise. Can anyone shed
            more light on this?



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Raymond Hobbs
            Thank you Pte Parkinson - just goes to show what quality there is in the 41st. Incoming!!! Ray Hobbs CO 41st Regt. Hamilton ... ADVERTISEMENT ... [Non-text
            Message 5 of 22 , Dec 31, 2002
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              Thank you Pte Parkinson - just goes to show what quality there is in the
              41st.
              Incoming!!!
              Ray Hobbs
              CO 41st Regt.
              Hamilton

              Rich Parkinson wrote:

              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Raymond Hobbs"
              > > I recall reading the journal of one US soldier who said that after a
              > few
              > > months of campaign he had gotten used to sleeping on the soft side
              > of a
              > > pine board! Don't have the reference at hand but I'll dig it out.
              >
              >
              > A great quote and it was from the memoirs of Jarvis Hanks in "Soldiers
              > of
              > 1814: American Enlisted Men's Memoirs of the Niagara Campaign". pg 23
              >
              > The full quote is as follows.
              >
              > "I now devoured raw pork with greediness and was obliged to sleep,
              > sometimes
              > on hay in a barn, and sometimes on the 'soft side of a pine board', as
              > we
              > used to say."
              >
              > R. Parkinson
              > 41st
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              ADVERTISEMENT


              >
              > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
              > of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
              > THOUSANDS of square miles...
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • dancingbobd@webtv.net
              Hi Larry, Scott, Tracy & all, The straw in barracks is pretty common on both sides. The question that comes to the fore on campaign is that most of the
              Message 6 of 22 , Dec 31, 2002
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                Hi Larry, Scott, Tracy & all,

                The straw in barracks is pretty common on both sides. The question that
                comes to the fore on campaign is that most of the campaigns were in
                rural areas, covered with farms which might well have hay and straw
                gathered for their animals and other uses. I haven't seen any mention
                of soldiers in the US army being issued bed sacks/ticks as individuals
                which they might take with them on campaign. I must admit that this is
                far from my area of expertise. Can anyone shed more light on this?

                HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!

                Regards,

                Bob Dorian
                US Surgeon
              • Scott Jeznach
                The straw in barracks is pretty common on both sides. The question that comes to the fore on campaign is that most of the campaigns were in rural areas,
                Message 7 of 22 , Dec 31, 2002
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                  The straw in barracks is pretty common on both sides. The question that
                  comes to the fore on campaign is that most of the campaigns were in
                  rural areas, covered with farms which might well have hay and straw
                  gathered for their animals and other uses. I haven't seen any mention
                  of soldiers in the US army being issued bed sacks/ticks as individuals
                  which they might take with them on campaign. I must admit that this is
                  far from my area of expertise. Can anyone shed more light on this?

                  >The use of straw during campaigns in the field is probably "rarely happened" occurrence. It's something that just became traditional with reenactors since the Civil War Centennial and Rev War Bicentennial.

                  >Ticks in the British Army were something issued as part of the barracks equipment.

                  >Soldiers in the field improvised with local shrubbery as padding, or slept directly on the ground with a blanket. Accounts for the Royal Marines show orders given to carry a blanket roll with a change of shirt, socks, and shoe soles, and nothing else.

                  >Another account by a private in the Light Division during the Iberian campaign recalls his being billetted in a monastary, but not given a bed to sleep in. His description of sleeping arrangements include going outside, cutting a bunch of rushes, and piling them on the stone floor. He then emptied out his haversack and wore it as a sleeping cap, layed his one blanket on the rushes, tied off the sleeves of his greatcoat and pushed his legs and feet into the sleeves, pulling the greatcoat skirt up to his chin. His red jacket he wrapped around his torso, then pulled the sides of his blanket around himself.

                  Scott J.
                  Royal Marines


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • dancingbobd@webtv.net
                  Thanks Scott! Quite interesting stuff. Bob
                  Message 8 of 22 , Dec 31, 2002
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                    Thanks Scott! Quite interesting stuff.

                    Bob
                  • Rich Parkinson
                    ... From: Raymond Hobbs ... A great quote and it was from the memoirs of Jarvis Hanks in Soldiers of 1814: American Enlisted Men s Memoirs of the Niagara
                    Message 9 of 22 , Dec 31, 2002
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                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Raymond Hobbs"
                      > I recall reading the journal of one US soldier who said that after a few
                      > months of campaign he had gotten used to sleeping on the soft side of a
                      > pine board! Don't have the reference at hand but I'll dig it out.


                      A great quote and it was from the memoirs of Jarvis Hanks in "Soldiers of
                      1814: American Enlisted Men's Memoirs of the Niagara Campaign". pg 23

                      The full quote is as follows.

                      "I now devoured raw pork with greediness and was obliged to sleep, sometimes
                      on hay in a barn, and sometimes on the 'soft side of a pine board', as we
                      used to say."

                      R. Parkinson
                      41st
                    • hm95thfoot <fullerfamily@sprintmail.com>
                      ... Iberian campaign recalls his being billetted in a monastary, but not given a bed to sleep in. His description of sleeping arrangements include going
                      Message 10 of 22 , Dec 31, 2002
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                        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Jeznach" <sjeznach@w...>
                        wrote:

                        > >Another account by a private in the Light Division during the
                        Iberian campaign recalls his being billetted in a monastary, but not
                        given a bed to sleep in. His description of sleeping arrangements
                        include going outside, cutting a bunch of rushes, and piling them on
                        the stone floor. He then emptied out his haversack and wore it as a
                        sleeping cap, layed his one blanket on the rushes, tied off the
                        sleeves of his greatcoat and pushed his legs and feet into the
                        sleeves, pulling the greatcoat skirt up to his chin. His red jacket
                        he wrapped around his torso, then pulled the sides of his blanket
                        around himself.
                        >
                        > Scott J.
                        > Royal Marines


                        And that would be, and I quote:

                        "....I shall give an account of how I slept this winter. In one
                        corner of my room I have collected a quantity of dry fern, this forms
                        my bed, it being necessary to strip to keep free from vermin. Every
                        night the contents of my haversack is transferred to my knapsack.
                        This forms my pillow and at the same time secures my kit and
                        provisions from midnight marauders. The haversack is then converted
                        to a night cap. Being stripped, my legs are then thrust into the
                        sleeves of an old watch coat, carefully tied at the cuffs to
                        keep out the cold. The other part of the coat wrapped around my body
                        served for under blanket and sheet. Next my trousers are drawn on my
                        legs over the sleeves of the coat, my red jacket has the
                        distinguished place of covering my seat of honour and lastly my
                        blanket covers all. In this manner I have slept as comfortable as a
                        prince."

                        - p.74, Wheeler, William, LETTERS OF PRIVATE WHEELER, Boston, 1952,
                        Houghton Mifflin, 1st US ed. (edited and with a foreword by Captain
                        B.H. Liddell Hart.) Wheeler served in the 51st Foot (King's Own
                        Yorkshire Light Infantry) from 1809 to 1828. He served in the ill-
                        fated Walcheren expedition, then through Wellington's Peninsula
                        campaigns and also at Waterloo in 1815. He retired as a sgt.

                        RF
                      • Rich Parkinson
                        ... From: Raymond Hobbs ... Here s another example taken from LeCouteur s journal. On the march from New Brunswick to Upper Canada, LeCouteur writes of
                        Message 11 of 22 , Dec 31, 2002
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                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Raymond Hobbs"
                          > Anyway, this suggests that on campaign, the lads dossed down on anything
                          > remotely comfortable.

                          Here's another example taken from LeCouteur's journal.

                          On the march from New Brunswick to Upper Canada, LeCouteur writes of
                          constructing huts in which "A blazing fire was then lit in the centre of
                          the hut, and all around it was strewed a thick layer of small pine branches
                          which formed a delicious and fragrant bed - here were no feather bed
                          soldiers."

                          R. Parkinson
                          41st Regiment
                        • HQ93rd@aol.com
                          Bob
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jan 1, 2003
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                            Bob << The straw in barracks is pretty common on both sides. The question
                            that
                            comes to the fore on campaign is that most of the campaigns were in
                            rural areas, covered with farms which might well have hay and straw
                            gathered for their animals and other uses. I haven't seen any mention
                            of soldiers in the US army being issued bed sacks/ticks as individuals
                            which they might take with them on campaign. I must admit that this is
                            far from my area of expertise. Can anyone shed more light on this? >>

                            I have it on good authority that Brit soldiers, at least, would skulk about
                            in the night and knock others over the head to get their straw for bedding...
                            ;-)
                            B
                            93rd SHRoFLHU
                            THE Thin Red Line
                            www.93rdhighlanders.com
                          • ebclemson <ebclemson@webtv.net>
                            Rich, I agree this is a very good book with great accounts. Another description by Hanks is found on page 28: We pitched our tents, spread hemlock boughs
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jan 1, 2003
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                              Rich,

                              I agree this is a very good book with great accounts. Another description by Hanks is found on page 28: "We pitched our tents, spread hemlock boughs for our beds...."

                              In the same book is an account by an Pennsylvania Volunteer who was in Porters Brigade. On page 62, he writes:

                              " The tents arriving, we commenced our march for Lake Erie on Monday, the 4th [March 1814], and crossed the North Mountain to McConnelsburg, in Bedford County, where the tents were pitched, STRAW PROVIDED, and we began to assume a military appearance."

                              The REGULATIONS FOR THE ....INFANTRY ...also known as Smyths, published in Philadelphia 1812, can be found on page 171 under "Police of the Camp":

                              "One officer of a company will every day visit the tents, see that they are kept clean; that every utensil belonging ... ... is in proper order...and when the weather is fine, will order them (tents) to be struck about two hours at noon, and the straw and bedding well aired."

                              The MILITARY LAWS AND RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR THE ARMIES OF THE UNITED STATES, published in Washington, May 1st 1813, on page 203...."No purchases on public account, will be made by the Quartermasters department, but of the following articles----
                              1st. Of Forage
                              2nd Of Food.
                              3rd straw for soldiers' bedding
                              ...etc.

                              On page 208 of the same book is found...
                              "OF STRAW One truss of straw, weighing 36 puonds, is allowed for every two men.
                              At the expiration of 16 days, each truss is to be refreshed with 8 pounds. At the expiration of 32 days, the whole straw is to be removed, and a fresh bedding of one truss to be furnished..."

                              I also agree with Tim Pickles that if 'straw bales' are present in our camps, that they should be broken up. When the 1st, 7th, 25th, CLC (all sister units) formed a company and attended Fort Erie a few years ago, we were greeted with a "depot" of straw bales stacked at the edge of our camp. As soon as the suggestion was made.....the bales were gone, and nothing but a pile of straw left. Bales or no bales, the men still found the way to used this "mound" to their benifit while eating their meals.

                              If a site wants to use hay bales for the public to sit on ...that is great, but in a camp that we are attempting to make as authentic as possible (without people dying or getting sick,etc.) then modern straw bales should not be allowed in camp.

                              The subject came up that there were not baling machines yet....so....how did they produce "Cotton Bales" ?

                              Adiu,

                              Dave Bennett 1st U.States Infy. & Missouri Rangers.


                              --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Rich Parkinson" <rich.parkinson@s...> wrote:
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: "Raymond Hobbs"
                              > > I recall reading the journal of one US soldier who said that after a few
                              > > months of campaign he had gotten used to sleeping on the soft side of a
                              > > pine board! Don't have the reference at hand but I'll dig it out.
                              >
                              >
                              > A great quote and it was from the memoirs of Jarvis Hanks in "Soldiers of
                              > 1814: American Enlisted Men's Memoirs of the Niagara Campaign". pg 23
                              >
                              > The full quote is as follows.
                              >
                              > "I now devoured raw pork with greediness and was obliged to sleep, sometimes
                              > on hay in a barn, and sometimes on the 'soft side of a pine board', as we
                              > used to say."
                              >
                              > R. Parkinson
                              > 41st
                            • ebclemson <ebclemson@webtv.net>
                              ... Scott, the only records I have found where bedsacks were issued in the U.States Army was in regards to Hospital stores. I can t find my papers on this
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jan 1, 2003
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                                --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Raymond Hobbs <ray.hobbs@s...> wrote:
                                > Scott et al.
                                > I recall reading the journal of one US soldier who said that after a few
                                > months of campaign he had gotten used to sleeping on the soft side of a
                                > pine board! Don't have the reference at hand but I'll dig it out.
                                > Anyway, this suggests that on campaign, the lads dossed down on anything
                                > remotely comfortable.
                                > Ray Hobbs
                                > 41st
                                >
                                > Scott Jeznach wrote:
                                >
                                > I haven't seen any mention of soldiers in the US army being issued bed
                                > sacks/ticks as individuals which they might take with them on campaign.
                                > I must admit that this isfar from my area of expertise. Can anyone shed
                                > more light on this?
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                Scott, the only records I have found where bedsacks were issued in the U.States Army was in regards to Hospital stores. I can't find my papers on this right now, but believe that sheets and bed sacks were issued to garrison hospitals.

                                Dave B.
                              • nappingcrow <nappingcrow@hotmail.com>
                                ... the U.States Army was in regards to Hospital stores. I can t find my papers on this right now, but believe that sheets and bed sacks were issued to
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jan 1, 2003
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                                  > Scott, the only records I have found where bedsacks were issued in
                                  the U.States Army was in regards to Hospital stores. I can't find
                                  my papers on this right now, but believe that sheets and bed sacks
                                  were issued to garrison hospitals.
                                  >
                                  > Dave B.

                                  In "These Relics of Barbarism: A History of Furniture in Barracks and
                                  Guardhouses of the United States Army, 1800-1880" the author (D. A.
                                  Clary) quotes Henry Dearborn (April 28th, 1801) as follows:
                                  "One truss of straw weighing thirty-six pounds, is allowed for each
                                  palliass for two men," and states that this appeared in the 1808
                                  regulations.

                                  I realize this isn't a receipt or orderly book, but wouldn't this
                                  seem to imply that bedsacks or bed-ticks were generally expected in
                                  winter quarters when the campaigning had settled down?

                                  Thanks,
                                  Brian S.
                                • David S. Mallinak
                                  ... For use of straw in the Rev war period. It was part of the Von Stueben procedures in the American Rev War army to have the pioneers to mark out the camp
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jan 1, 2003
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                                    > The use of straw during campaigns in the field is probably
                                    > "rarely happened" occurrence. It's something that just became
                                    > traditional with reenactors since the Civil War Centennial and
                                    > Rev War Bicentennial.

                                    For use of straw in the Rev war period. It was part of the Von Stueben
                                    procedures in the American Rev War army to have the pioneers to mark out
                                    the camp and drop off tool to cut the grass. The troops doing the cutting
                                    for bedding. Von Stueben also recommends that if the Army is going to be in
                                    the same place for several days, that on sunny days, that the camp tents be
                                    taken down, to air out/turn over the straw/bedding.

                                    The use of straw (defined as dried field grasses) would depend on the time
                                    of year and the state of the field in which the army was camping.

                                    HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!

                                    Your humble and obedient servant,
                                    David S Mallinak
                                  • ebclemson <ebclemson@webtv.net>
                                    ... Brian, I already quoted the regulation allowing a truss of straw in one of my previous notes. That information came out of my original 1813 regulations.
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jan 1, 2003
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                                      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "nappingcrow <nappingcrow@h...>" <nappingcrow@h...> wrote:
                                      > > Scott, the only records I have found where bedsacks were issued in
                                      > the U.States Army was in regards to Hospital stores. I can't find
                                      > my papers on this right now, but believe that sheets and bed sacks
                                      > were issued to garrison hospitals.
                                      > >
                                      > > Dave B.
                                      >
                                      > In "These Relics of Barbarism: A History of Furniture in Barracks and
                                      > Guardhouses of the United States Army, 1800-1880" the author (D. A.
                                      > Clary) quotes Henry Dearborn (April 28th, 1801) as follows:
                                      > "One truss of straw weighing thirty-six pounds, is allowed for each
                                      > palliass for two men," and states that this appeared in the 1808
                                      > regulations.
                                      >
                                      > I realize this isn't a receipt or orderly book, but wouldn't this
                                      > seem to imply that bedsacks or bed-ticks were generally expected in
                                      > winter quarters when the campaigning had settled down?
                                      >
                                      > Thanks,
                                      > Brian S.

                                      Brian,

                                      I already quoted the regulation allowing a "truss of straw" in one of my previous notes. That information came out of my original 1813 regulations.

                                      What does "Pilliass" mean?

                                      No, I do not believe that the issue of straw indicates that bedsacks were necessarily issued. Barracks appears to had bed sacks issued to, but again, I have never seen bed sacks issued to individual soldiers. It appears that in garrisons, and "barracks" that bedsacks were purchased or made by company tailors and probably staid with that location, and not with the soldiers.

                                      In my previous post, I quoted the regulations on inspecting the straw while the army is moving and in camp. Straw was issued, but this does not imply that every man was running around with his own little bedsack.

                                      My wife has come across first hand accounts of Officers wives writing about traveling with the army. At least two of them indicated they slept on bear skins. Apparently, even American officers did not always use bedsacks on a march.


                                      Adiu, Dave Bennett. 1st U.States Infy.
                                    • Mark Dickerson
                                      In modern terms dried field grasses would be hay. Straw is the left over stems of harvested wheat, rye, beans, etc. Mark D ... The use of straw (defined as
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Jan 1, 2003
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                                        In modern terms "dried field grasses" would be hay. Straw is the left over stems of harvested wheat, rye, beans, etc.
                                        Mark D
                                        ----- Original Message -----

                                        The use of straw (defined as dried field grasses) would depend on the time
                                        of year and the state of the field in which the army was camping.




                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • nappingcrow <nappingcrow@hotmail.com>
                                        Hi Dave, Palliasses (From French word for straw, variants palliasse, paillasse, etc.) were sacks or mattresses filled with straw, and seem to have a history in
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Jan 2, 2003
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                                          Hi Dave,

                                          Palliasses (From French word for straw, variants palliasse,
                                          paillasse, etc.) were sacks or mattresses filled with straw, and seem
                                          to have a history in the British army predating the American
                                          Revolution, and also seem to have been inherited by the American
                                          army.

                                          I didn't mean to imply I thought bedsacks were issued/used on the
                                          march, but rather that I was wondering whether they were expected in
                                          winter quarters - when the army had theoretically settled down in
                                          huts. (My use of "huts" here following Clary's, and different from
                                          the more permanent "barracks".) As quoted, they'd have been used for
                                          two men rather than one to each.

                                          I also have a copy of the 1813 regulations, and they omit the
                                          word "palliass" which was used in 1808. Whether this is because they
                                          weren't used, or because they were assumed/implied as routine items I
                                          do not know. I haven't seen a first hand account of them, so I'm
                                          curious about what others think.

                                          I haven't seen much on what campaign life was like for officer's
                                          wives in the American army of the time - when's your wife going to
                                          publish? :-)

                                          If you can track down a copy of "These Relics of Barbarism" it's
                                          worth it.

                                          Thanks, and Happy New Year
                                          Brian S.
                                        • Brian Howard
                                          A note from the Southern theatre. In an order book of the 5th Va militia dated May, 1814 to Nov, 1814, the use of boards for tent floors was preferred over
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Jan 2, 2003
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                                            A note from the Southern theatre. In an order book of
                                            the 5th Va militia dated May, 1814 to Nov, 1814, the
                                            use of boards for tent floors was preferred over
                                            straw. Straw cost company funds and the boards lasted
                                            much longer than the staw. This was for the units
                                            camped around the Norfolk and Portsmouth area of
                                            Virginia.

                                            Brian
                                            2nd Va Regiment, 1813-1815

                                            --- Raymond Hobbs <ray.hobbs@...> wrote:
                                            > Scott et al.
                                            > I recall reading the journal of one US soldier who
                                            > said that after a few
                                            > months of campaign he had gotten used to sleeping on
                                            > the soft side of a
                                            > pine board! Don't have the reference at hand but
                                            > I'll dig it out.
                                            > Anyway, this suggests that on campaign, the lads
                                            > dossed down on anything
                                            > remotely comfortable.
                                            > Ray Hobbs
                                            > 41st
                                            >
                                            > Scott Jeznach wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I haven't seen any mention of soldiers in the US
                                            > army being issued bed
                                            > sacks/ticks as individuals which they might take
                                            > with them on campaign.
                                            > I must admit that this isfar from my area of
                                            > expertise. Can anyone shed
                                            > more light on this?
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                            > removed]
                                            >
                                            >


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                                          • ebclemson <ebclemson@webtv.net>
                                            ... Hi Brian, Great information thanks. Yes, I ll track down the book you mentioned. I saw that Feltoe had also mentioned Palliasses in British issues. I ve
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Jan 2, 2003
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                                              --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "nappingcrow <nappingcrow@h...>" <nappingcrow@h...> wrote:

                                              Hi Brian,

                                              Great information thanks. Yes, I'll track down the book you mentioned. I saw that Feltoe had also mentioned "Palliasses" in British issues.

                                              I've seen "huts" used more than "barracks".... I may be wrong here, but from the American records I've read...it appears huts were single story and barracks were two story? But, Hay <g>.....I'm guessing.

                                              This has been a great thread on HAY and STRAW. Every thing you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask.

                                              By the way, "MAKE HAY WHILE THE SUN SHINES"....is a great period phrase. Col. Jacob Kingsbury, 1st Infantry used this in a letter before the War.

                                              As far as the accounts of women ...1) Lydia's Bacon's account is good one. Her husband was in the 4th U.States Infantry.
                                              2) My wife publish? Actually, she has but not this particular subject though she has given presentations on this subject.

                                              3) Norman Caldwell wrote some very fine
                                              articles on Civilians during the war era.

                                              Dave B.


                                              > Hi Dave,
                                              >
                                              > Palliasses (From French word for straw, variants palliasse,
                                              > paillasse, etc.) were sacks or mattresses filled with straw, and seem
                                              > to have a history in the British army predating the American
                                              > Revolution, and also seem to have been inherited by the American
                                              > army.
                                              >
                                              > I didn't mean to imply I thought bedsacks were issued/used on the
                                              > march, but rather that I was wondering whether they were expected in
                                              > winter quarters - when the army had theoretically settled down in
                                              > huts. (My use of "huts" here following Clary's, and different from
                                              > the more permanent "barracks".) As quoted, they'd have been used for
                                              > two men rather than one to each.
                                              >
                                              > I also have a copy of the 1813 regulations, and they omit the
                                              > word "palliass" which was used in 1808. Whether this is because they
                                              > weren't used, or because they were assumed/implied as routine items I
                                              > do not know. I haven't seen a first hand account of them, so I'm
                                              > curious about what others think.
                                              >
                                              > I haven't seen much on what campaign life was like for officer's
                                              > wives in the American army of the time - when's your wife going to
                                              > publish? :-)
                                              >
                                              > If you can track down a copy of "These Relics of Barbarism" it's
                                              > worth it.
                                              >
                                              > Thanks, and Happy New Year
                                              > Brian S.
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