Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [WarOf1812] Re: US Militia

Expand Messages
  • PEGGY MATHEWS
    Thanks Ted, interesting stuff. Kind of odd that the musketmen were used as skirmishers while the rifle where kept back. Would you assume that they were
    Message 1 of 14 , Nov 1, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      Thanks Ted, interesting stuff. Kind of odd that the musketmen were used as skirmishers while the rifle where kept back. Would you assume that they were proficient, or at least comfortable in a close order role? Guess that just leaves their service record if you have it. Always nice to know what the others did.

      Regards,

      Michael


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Ted Y.
      Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 2:06 PM
      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Re: US Militia

      1st Md. Rifle BN. had 3 companies also, Fells Point
      Rifles, Union Yaegers and Aisquith's Sharpshooters.
      While the bulk of the 120-180 men were actually armed
      with rifles, a hunk of perhaps as many as 45 in one
      compant were apparently issued muskets and served as
      light infantry skirmishers, the main role of the unit
      was essentially skirmishing. I hope to do some further
      research into this, but have not had the time of late
      to get to some of the records.
      As for Uniforms, the 1st Md. provided thie own.
      They were a uniformed Volunteer unit. There were other
      Enrolled Militia Companies in the boondocks and in DC
      who came in civilian clothing. Roughly half of the
      D.C. militia at Bladensburg were enrolled militia.
      Their commander was so disgusted by the appearance of
      some that he sent them home on the eve of Bladensburg,
      ordering them to bring better shoes and butcher
      knives. All of the D.C. "Rifle" units at Bladensburg
      were largely armed with muskets, though there may have
      been a smattering of privately owned rifles.

      Ted Yeatman
      1st Md. Rifle BN.
      Fells Point Rifles
      --- alaidh <alaidh@...> wrote:
      > --- In WarOf1812@y..., "PEGGY Mathews"
      > <ciefranche21e@m...> wrote:
      > > Very interesting stuff recently on the sheer size
      > of the possible militia=
      >
      > > musters. So how did states handle duty
      > requirements? i.e. was there a
      > > national standard, or did individual states
      > decide? It seems that the
      > > theoretical strength would make raiding operations
      > along the coast
      > > impractical at best and potentially disastrous.
      > Yet we know otherwise. =
      > So,
      > > in no particular order:
      > >
      > > 1. Did the militia drill and train according to
      > the motivation of it's
      > > commander?
      >
      > I suspect that was the case.
      >
      > Much live firing?
      >
      > As indiviuals, yes. As a unit, I imagine that it had
      > to do with the
      > motivation of he commander. i would loke to point
      > out however, that in
      > most of the actions between British and purely
      > militia defense forces,
      > that while the militia invariably broke first they
      > also usually
      > inflicted more casualties than they took.
      >
      > >
      > > 2. Did the militia have standing or rotating duty
      > where this regiment or =
      >
      > > battalion would be patrolling or at least "on
      > call"?
      >
      > Certainly, in NH. I don't know about other states.
      >
      > >
      > > 3. Did they provide their own equipment and
      > clothing *as a rule* or was
      > > there a government issue?
      >
      > Usually depended upon the unit in question,
      > circumstances, and
      > availability of stores. For instance, the Boston
      > Hussars supplied their
      > own, at a cost of $1200 (1812 money), plus the cost
      > of a blooded horse
      > - you could have bought a small schooner for what it
      > cost to outfit
      > each man in that company. On the other hand, some of
      > the Kentucky
      > militia that showed up at New Orleans were in rags
      > and were unarmed (I
      > think Tim can speak on this).
      >
      >
      > >
      > > 4. Any thoughts on what might be an average muster
      > time once the alarm ha=
      > s
      > > been given?
      >
      >
      > Probably had to do with how spread out the
      > population was, and where
      > they were supposed to muster.
      >
      > >
      > > 5. Other interesting facts for you to provide.
      >
      > The coastal raiding was not as cut and dried as it
      > first appears -
      > except for the Chesapeake expeditions, most coastal
      > raiding was reduced
      > to chicken stealing (a landing force would pillage a
      > few coastal farms,
      > isolated from their neighbors, and then leave before
      > the militia could
      > arrive - this even happened in the Chesapeake).
      > While the war didn't
      > get too serious along the New England coast until
      > 1814, coastal raiders
      > were frequently repulsed when the got too ambitious
      > (Hull, Covington,
      > York, and Marblehead all come to mind).
      >
      > The problem for the Americans was that the coastline
      > was so extensive,
      > it was physically impossible to protect a
      > significant portion of at one
      > time, regardless of the size of forces available.
      >
      > The problem for the British was to try and figure
      > out where there was
      > something worth raiding, yet wasn't strongly
      > defended at the moment.
      >
      > The whole issue became a guessing game, with the
      > Royal Navy getting an
      > occasional chicken dinner in between rounds.
      >
      > F
      >
      >
      > >
      > > Thanks all,
      > >
      > > Michael
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > "We must sail sometimes with the wind and
      > sometimes against it -- but we =
      >
      > > must sail, and not drift, nor lie at anchor." --
      > Oliver Wendell Holmes
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      _________________________________________________________________
      > > Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free!
      > Try MSN.
      > >
      >
      http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/2monthsfree.asp
      >
      >
      >
      > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
      > the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North
      > America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
      > of square miles...
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >


      __________________________________________________
      Do you Yahoo!?
      HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
      http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/


      The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Armchairadm@cs.com
      The equipment, organization & training of US Militia units varied widely from state to state. A good basic source for information on their Uniforms &
      Message 2 of 14 , Nov 2, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        The equipment, organization & training of US Militia units varied
        widely from state to state. A good basic source for information on their
        Uniforms & equipment's (or at least what they were supposed to have) & to
        some extent on their organization is Rene' Chartrand's "Uniforms & Equipment
        of the United States Forces in the War of 1812" published by Old Ft. Niagara
        in 1992. Don't know if its still in print.

        Ed B.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Vcohorspraetoria@aol.com
        Unfortunately, Uniforms and Equipment of the United States Forces in the War of 1812 has been out of print for awhile. I had to get one through the
        Message 3 of 14 , Nov 2, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          Unfortunately, "Uniforms and Equipment of the United States Forces in the War
          of 1812" has been out of print for awhile.
          I had to get one through the inter-library loan system. And then copy off
          the whole book. It is a gold mine of information, and worth the trouble.

          Phil Holmes
          6th Regt. of United States Infantry
          Capt. Machesnay's Company

          http://www.flash.net/~dskesslr/6th_us.html


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Kevin Windsor
          Wouldn t widely advertise this Phil. Very illegal and since we have a number of authors on this list and a few who speak to Rene, it s best not to admit you
          Message 4 of 14 , Nov 2, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            Wouldn't widely advertise this Phil. Very illegal and since we have a number of authors on this list and a few who speak to Rene, it's best not to admit you have taken
            royalties away from him.

            Vcohorspraetoria@... wrote:

            >
            > I had to get one through the inter-library loan system. And then copy off
            > the whole book. It is a gold mine of information, and worth the trouble.
            >
            > Phil Holmes
            > 6th Regt. of United States Infantry
            > Capt. Machesnay's Company
            >
          • dancingbobd@webtv.net
            Kevin, The book is out of print and has been for several years. Royalties are paid for books sold. They have all been sold and Mr. Chartrand has received all
            Message 5 of 14 , Nov 2, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              Kevin,

              The book is out of print and has been for several years. Royalties are
              paid for books sold. They have all been sold and Mr. Chartrand has
              received all the royalties he can for the time being. It would be a
              different situation of the book was still in stock.

              My two cent worth.

              Bob
            • Vcohorspraetoria@aol.com
              Plus, it was copied for private use only, and not for resale. Phil [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 14 , Nov 2, 2002
              • 0 Attachment
                Plus, it was copied for private use only, and not for resale.

                Phil


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ted Y.
                I just heard from Pete Plunkett of Middlesex Village Trading Co. that he should be getting prototypes soon for two different patterns of U.S. Militia Cartridge
                Message 7 of 14 , Nov 26, 2002
                • 0 Attachment
                  I just heard from Pete Plunkett of Middlesex Village
                  Trading Co. that he should be getting prototypes soon
                  for two different patterns of U.S. Militia Cartridge
                  Boxes of the 1812 period. One will be an over the
                  shoulder model that's different from the standard 1808
                  pattern, with a 29 hole ctg. block and an implement
                  pocket. The other is a Light Infantry belly box with
                  24
                  holes. Both are copied off original patterns that I
                  supplied him. In addition, he tells me he has a
                  Napoleonic French ctg. box prototype coming. I'll let
                  everyone know when these come in as he will have
                  photos on his web site. He is planning a line of 1812
                  American accoutrements and there may be other
                  additions later on. These should be modestly priced.


                  Y.H.&.O.S.

                  Ted Yeatman
                  1st Md. Rifle BN.
                  Fells Point Rifles
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
                  > > the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North
                  > > America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
                  > > of square miles...
                  > >
                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
                  > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                  > http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
                  >
                  >
                  === message truncated ===


                  __________________________________________________
                  Do you Yahoo!?
                  Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
                  http://mailplus.yahoo.com
                • Ted Y.
                  Actually, the whole BN. was normally deployed in skirmish order, not JUST the musketmen. The muskets were apparently issued to make up for a difficiency in
                  Message 8 of 14 , Nov 26, 2002
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Actually, the whole BN. was normally deployed in
                    skirmish order, not JUST the musketmen. The muskets
                    were apparently issued to make up for a difficiency in
                    rifles, probably some later recruits.
                    The 1st NY Rifle Regt. had a mix of 1803's,
                    privately made[and in most cases owned] rifles, plus
                    some muskets, also. This seems to have been a typical
                    arrangement, at least with units in the East. In Md.
                    the militia infantry regiments were allowed one or two
                    flank companies, which could be either Light Infantry
                    or Rifles. In practice, the "Rifle" Companies may have
                    been a mix of guns. I have uncovered another Rifle Co.
                    at Bladensburg, which served with the 17th Md. Inf.,
                    and was later in the fight at Indian Head vs. the
                    British Navy on the Potomac.
                    I was recently over in Bladensburg and it appears
                    that at least some of the battlefield along the
                    Anacostia, which figured in the initial fighting, is
                    in a park, though most of the battle area is now
                    developed. The area in the park is part of that
                    occupied by the 1st Md. Bn. in their fight with the
                    British Light Brigade at the opening of the battle.

                    Y.H. & O.S.
                    Ted Yeatman
                    1st Md. Rifle Bn.
                    Fells Point Rifles.

                    --- PEGGY MATHEWS <ciefranche21e@...> wrote:
                    > Thanks Ted, interesting stuff. Kind of odd that the
                    > musketmen were used as skirmishers while the rifle
                    > where kept back. Would you assume that they were
                    > proficient, or at least comfortable in a close order
                    > role? Guess that just leaves their service record
                    > if you have it. Always nice to know what the others
                    > did.
                    >
                    > Regards,
                    >
                    > Michael
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Ted Y.
                    > Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 2:06 PM
                    > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Re: US Militia
                    >
                    > 1st Md. Rifle BN. had 3 companies also, Fells Point
                    > Rifles, Union Yaegers and Aisquith's Sharpshooters.
                    > While the bulk of the 120-180 men were actually
                    > armed
                    > with rifles, a hunk of perhaps as many as 45 in one
                    > compant were apparently issued muskets and served as
                    > light infantry skirmishers, the main role of the
                    > unit
                    > was essentially skirmishing. I hope to do some
                    > further
                    > research into this, but have not had the time of
                    > late
                    > to get to some of the records.
                    > As for Uniforms, the 1st Md. provided thie own.
                    > They were a uniformed Volunteer unit. There were
                    > other
                    > Enrolled Militia Companies in the boondocks and in
                    > DC
                    > who came in civilian clothing. Roughly half of the
                    > D.C. militia at Bladensburg were enrolled militia.
                    > Their commander was so disgusted by the appearance
                    > of
                    > some that he sent them home on the eve of
                    > Bladensburg,
                    > ordering them to bring better shoes and butcher
                    > knives. All of the D.C. "Rifle" units at Bladensburg
                    > were largely armed with muskets, though there may
                    > have
                    > been a smattering of privately owned rifles.
                    >
                    > Ted Yeatman
                    > 1st Md. Rifle BN.
                    > Fells Point Rifles
                    > --- alaidh <alaidh@...> wrote:
                    > > --- In WarOf1812@y..., "PEGGY Mathews"
                    > > <ciefranche21e@m...> wrote:
                    > > > Very interesting stuff recently on the sheer
                    > size
                    > > of the possible militia=
                    > >
                    > > > musters. So how did states handle duty
                    > > requirements? i.e. was there a
                    > > > national standard, or did individual states
                    > > decide? It seems that the
                    > > > theoretical strength would make raiding
                    > operations
                    > > along the coast
                    > > > impractical at best and potentially disastrous.
                    >
                    > > Yet we know otherwise. =
                    > > So,
                    > > > in no particular order:
                    > > >
                    > > > 1. Did the militia drill and train according to
                    > > the motivation of it's
                    > > > commander?
                    > >
                    > > I suspect that was the case.
                    > >
                    > > Much live firing?
                    > >
                    > > As indiviuals, yes. As a unit, I imagine that it
                    > had
                    > > to do with the
                    > > motivation of he commander. i would loke to point
                    > > out however, that in
                    > > most of the actions between British and purely
                    > > militia defense forces,
                    > > that while the militia invariably broke first they
                    > > also usually
                    > > inflicted more casualties than they took.
                    > >
                    > > >
                    > > > 2. Did the militia have standing or rotating
                    > duty
                    > > where this regiment or =
                    > >
                    > > > battalion would be patrolling or at least "on
                    > > call"?
                    > >
                    > > Certainly, in NH. I don't know about other states.
                    > >
                    > > >
                    > > > 3. Did they provide their own equipment and
                    > > clothing *as a rule* or was
                    > > > there a government issue?
                    > >
                    > > Usually depended upon the unit in question,
                    > > circumstances, and
                    > > availability of stores. For instance, the Boston
                    > > Hussars supplied their
                    > > own, at a cost of $1200 (1812 money), plus the
                    > cost
                    > > of a blooded horse
                    > > - you could have bought a small schooner for what
                    > it
                    > > cost to outfit
                    > > each man in that company. On the other hand, some
                    > of
                    > > the Kentucky
                    > > militia that showed up at New Orleans were in rags
                    > > and were unarmed (I
                    > > think Tim can speak on this).
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > >
                    > > > 4. Any thoughts on what might be an average
                    > muster
                    > > time once the alarm ha=
                    > > s
                    > > > been given?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Probably had to do with how spread out the
                    > > population was, and where
                    > > they were supposed to muster.
                    > >
                    > > >
                    > > > 5. Other interesting facts for you to provide.
                    > >
                    > > The coastal raiding was not as cut and dried as it
                    > > first appears -
                    > > except for the Chesapeake expeditions, most
                    > coastal
                    > > raiding was reduced
                    > > to chicken stealing (a landing force would pillage
                    > a
                    > > few coastal farms,
                    > > isolated from their neighbors, and then leave
                    > before
                    > > the militia could
                    > > arrive - this even happened in the Chesapeake).
                    > > While the war didn't
                    > > get too serious along the New England coast until
                    > > 1814, coastal raiders
                    > > were frequently repulsed when the got too
                    > ambitious
                    > > (Hull, Covington,
                    > > York, and Marblehead all come to mind).
                    > >
                    > > The problem for the Americans was that the
                    > coastline
                    > > was so extensive,
                    > > it was physically impossible to protect a
                    > > significant portion of at one
                    > > time, regardless of the size of forces available.
                    > >
                    > > The problem for the British was to try and figure
                    > > out where there was
                    > > something worth raiding, yet wasn't strongly
                    > > defended at the moment.
                    > >
                    > > The whole issue became a guessing game, with the
                    > > Royal Navy getting an
                    > > occasional chicken dinner in between rounds.
                    > >
                    > > F
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks all,
                    > > >
                    > > > Michael
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > "We must sail sometimes with the wind and
                    > > sometimes against it -- but we =
                    > >
                    > > > must sail, and not drift, nor lie at anchor." --
                    > > Oliver Wendell Holmes
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                    _________________________________________________________________
                    > > > Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free!
                    >
                    > > Try MSN.
                    > > >
                    >
                    === message truncated ===


                    __________________________________________________
                    Do you Yahoo!?
                    Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
                    http://mailplus.yahoo.com
                  • PEGGY MATHEWS
                    Thanks David. Michael ... From: David S. Mallinak To: Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 1:43 AM Subject: Re:
                    Message 9 of 14 , Dec 25, 2002
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thanks David.

                      Michael


                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "David S. Mallinak" <matchlck@...>
                      To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 1:43 AM
                      Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] US Militia


                      > PEGGY Mathews wrote:
                      >
                      > > 1. Did the militia drill and train according to the motivation of it's
                      > > commander? Much live firing?
                      >
                      > I will have to retrieve my copy of the Maryland, But I do recall that MD
                      > Assembly set the minimum muster schedule of at least twice a year.
                      >
                      > > 2. Did the militia have standing or rotating duty where this regiment or
                      > > battalion would be patrolling or at least "on call"?
                      >
                      > > 4. Any thoughts on what might be an average muster time once the alarm
                      has
                      > > been given?
                      >
                      > The broadsheet I saw for Baltimore after the Washington, indicated ASAP
                      > when the alarm was giving.
                      >
                      > In Service of Scotland and its history,
                      > Your humble and obedient servant,
                      > David S Mallinak
                      >
                      > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                      square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                      square miles...
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                    • David S. Mallinak
                      ... I will have to retrieve my copy of the Maryland, But I do recall that MD Assembly set the minimum muster schedule of at least twice a year. ... The
                      Message 10 of 14 , Dec 25, 2002
                      • 0 Attachment
                        PEGGY Mathews wrote:

                        > 1. Did the militia drill and train according to the motivation of it's
                        > commander? Much live firing?

                        I will have to retrieve my copy of the Maryland, But I do recall that MD
                        Assembly set the minimum muster schedule of at least twice a year.

                        > 2. Did the militia have standing or rotating duty where this regiment or
                        > battalion would be patrolling or at least "on call"?

                        > 4. Any thoughts on what might be an average muster time once the alarm has
                        > been given?

                        The broadsheet I saw for Baltimore after the Washington, indicated ASAP
                        when the alarm was giving.

                        In Service of Scotland and its history,
                        Your humble and obedient servant,
                        David S Mallinak
                      • Brian Howard
                        Here in the Tidewater Virginia Theatre the militia was called into service for 6 months of service and placed in camps or forts during that time. Muster rolls
                        Message 11 of 14 , Dec 26, 2002
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Here in the Tidewater Virginia Theatre the militia was
                          called into service for 6 months of service and placed
                          in camps or forts during that time. Muster rolls
                          record units stationed from Cape Henry, at the
                          entrance to the bay in what is now Virginia Beach, to
                          Norfolk, Willoughby to be exact. Additional companies
                          were called up during times of alerts such as the
                          attacks on Craney Island and Hampton, June 22-26,
                          1813.

                          The two forts in the area were Forts Norfolk, on the
                          eastern shore of the Elizabeth River, and Fort Nelson
                          on the western shore. These were both seacoast forts
                          with only Fort Norfolk still standing.

                          Under General Orders issued by General Taylor, the
                          units were to be drilled for at least one hour each
                          day. In one order book a company of militia was
                          ordered to drill for two hours a day until profiency
                          was displayed in the manual of arms and evolutions of
                          the company. Live firing was at a minimum due to the
                          cost and availability of powder and shot.

                          Please visit the site of the 2nd Virginia Regiment,
                          1813-1815, to see information on Fort Norfolk and our
                          unit. If I can be of additional assistance please
                          contact me.

                          God Save the United States!
                          Brian Howard
                          2nd Va Regt., 1813-1815
                          http://members.cox.net/2varegiment

                          --- "David S. Mallinak" <matchlck@...> wrote:
                          > PEGGY Mathews wrote:
                          >
                          > > 1. Did the militia drill and train according to
                          > the motivation of it's
                          > > commander? Much live firing?
                          >
                          > I will have to retrieve my copy of the Maryland, But
                          > I do recall that MD
                          > Assembly set the minimum muster schedule of at least
                          > twice a year.
                          >
                          > > 2. Did the militia have standing or rotating duty
                          > where this regiment or
                          > > battalion would be patrolling or at least "on
                          > call"?
                          >
                          > > 4. Any thoughts on what might be an average muster
                          > time once the alarm has
                          > > been given?
                          >
                          > The broadsheet I saw for Baltimore after the
                          > Washington, indicated ASAP
                          > when the alarm was giving.
                          >
                          > In Service of Scotland and its history,
                          > Your humble and obedient servant,
                          > David S Mallinak
                          >


                          __________________________________________________
                          Do you Yahoo!?
                          Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
                          http://mailplus.yahoo.com
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.