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garrison colors

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  • sgtlambert
    I am wondering what size and shapes of flags would be the norm for forts and posts? For example, British regimental colours are roughly 6x6 but we usually
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 30, 2002
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      I am wondering what size and shapes of flags would be the norm for
      forts and posts? For example, British regimental colours are roughly
      6x6' but we usually see something along the 3x5' ratio, and always
      the Grand Union flag. I wondered if these British colours were be
      square or rectangular as we usually see.

      For American posts, would it normally be the Stars and Stripes or
      something else? Any regulations for size? The US colors I see at
      events tend to be *huge*, which as an USAian I rather like. Were
      States flags like we saw in the War of Independance still in vogue
      for militia and volunteer units?

      Last question for both sides, would regimental colors *ever* be used
      to fly over a post for fort? Or would that be a violation of
      military ettiquette?

      Thanks in advance,

      Michael
    • ANDREW S BATEMAN
      ... From: sgtlambert ... Depends whether you are talking about regimental colours or the national flag displayed on the flagpole at a
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 30, 2002
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        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "sgtlambert" <ciefranche21e@...>


        > I am wondering what size and shapes of flags would be the norm for
        > forts and posts? For example, British regimental colours are roughly
        > 6x6' but we usually see something along the 3x5' ratio, and always
        > the Grand Union flag. I wondered if these British colours were be
        > square or rectangular as we usually see.

        Depends whether you are talking about regimental colours or the national
        flag displayed on the flagpole at a fort. Regimental colours were square
        but the flag on the flagpole would be the national flag with the usual
        proportions. If you have been to events where the British forces were
        carrrying a 3'x5' Union Jack into battle I'd say they need to pony up for a
        proper set of regimental colours.

        > For American posts, would it normally be the Stars and Stripes or
        > something else? Any regulations for size? The US colors I see at
        > events tend to be *huge*, which as an USAian I rather like.

        Flags at coastal forts were *huge* so they could be seen by ships at sea.
        Coastal forts also usually had a smaller "storm flag" for windy weather when
        the larger flag would have been unmanageable. I believe the original "Star
        Spangled Banner" at Fort McHenry was actually the storm flag, but no doubt
        someone will correct me.

        > Last question for both sides, would regimental colors *ever* be used
        > to fly over a post for fort? Or would that be a violation of
        > military ettiquette?

        Yes, it would, at least from the British point of view. The national flag
        is what is displayed on the flagpole. Regimental colours shouldn't be flown
        at a post but rolled up and put away when the regiment isn't on parade.

        Andrew Bateman, 41st Foot
      • PEGGY MATHEWS
        Thanks Andrew. I wasn t clear on the one part. I wasn t suggesting that a regular unit would have 3x5 colours, but rather that while unit colours are 6x6
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 30, 2002
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          Thanks Andrew. I wasn't clear on the one part. I wasn't suggesting that a regular unit would have 3x5 colours, but rather that while unit colours are 6x6 what we usually see at a fort are 3x5. So I was wondering if they should also be square for a forts flagpole? Sounds like the 3x5 ratio is proper or at least acceptable for British flags on the main square flagpole, fort bastion, etc.

          Michael

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: ANDREW S BATEMAN
          Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 10:40 PM
          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] garrison colors

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "sgtlambert" <ciefranche21e@...>


          > I am wondering what size and shapes of flags would be the norm for
          > forts and posts? For example, British regimental colours are roughly
          > 6x6' but we usually see something along the 3x5' ratio, and always
          > the Grand Union flag. I wondered if these British colours were be
          > square or rectangular as we usually see.

          Depends whether you are talking about regimental colours or the national
          flag displayed on the flagpole at a fort. Regimental colours were square
          but the flag on the flagpole would be the national flag with the usual
          proportions. If you have been to events where the British forces were
          carrrying a 3'x5' Union Jack into battle I'd say they need to pony up for a
          proper set of regimental colours.

          (snip)


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Armchairadm@cs.com
          US Garrison Colors would always be the Stars & Stripes. Regimental colors would not be flown from flag staff of any fort or permanent encampment. State
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 31, 2002
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            US Garrison Colors would always be the Stars & Stripes. Regimental colors
            would not be flown from flag staff of any fort or permanent encampment.
            State Militia units would most likely have carried state flags as their
            regimental colors but I'm not certain on this. State flags circa 1812/1814
            are not necessarily the same as those in use today.

            Ed B.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • PEGGY Mathews
            As I would expect regarding the Stars and Stripes. Has anyone done a study of what sorts of State flags were in use? Nothing critical here, just my
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 31, 2002
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              As I would expect regarding the Stars and Stripes. Has anyone done a study
              of what sorts of State flags were in use? Nothing critical here, just my
              insatiable curiosity.

              Where provincial colours in use during this time, or was that developed in
              Canadian later in the century? If yes, would they ever have been used by
              militia? I'm guessing no.

              Thanks to all who have replied thus far.

              Michael


              >From: Armchairadm@...
              >Reply-To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
              >To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] garrison colors
              >Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 10:07:32 EDT
              >
              >US Garrison Colors would always be the Stars & Stripes. Regimental colors
              >would not be flown from flag staff of any fort or permanent encampment.
              >State Militia units would most likely have carried state flags as their
              >regimental colors but I'm not certain on this. State flags circa 1812/1814
              >are not necessarily the same as those in use today.
              >
              > Ed B.
              >
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
              >square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
              >of square miles...
              >
              >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >




              "We must sail sometimes with the wind and sometimes against it -- but we
              must sail, and not drift, nor lie at anchor." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes


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            • Larry Lozon
              From: PEGGY Mathews Where provincial colours in use during this time, or was that developed in Canadian later in the century? If
              Message 6 of 10 , Jul 31, 2002
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                From: "PEGGY Mathews" <ciefranche21e@...>

                Where provincial colours in use during this time, or was that developed in
                Canadian later in the century? If yes, would they ever have been used by
                militia? I'm guessing no.
                ........................

                The Canadian Provincial Flag of Ontario

                Adopted:

                Act of Legislature assented to April 14, 1965. Queen Elizabeth ll's approval
                of use of the Royal Union Flag was given May 21,1965.

                Description:

                The flag closely resembles the Canadian Red Ensign. The Union jack occupies
                the upper quarter near the staff and the shield of arms of the province is
                centred
                in the half farthest from the staff.

                Proportion:

                Two by length and one by width

                to see this flag visit: http://www.imagesoft.net/canada/onflag.html
                ...................

                As for Militia Flags, The 1st Regiment Kent Militia was presented
                a flag from the ladies of the Regiment. It had the Rampant Stallion
                of Kent with the words "Loyal Kent Volunteers". This is the only
                Regimental Colours mentioned for the 1812-1815 time period.

                Other Canadian Militias report never recieving colours.
              • badger222ca
                ... Those (if any) on the list who took my advice some time ago and went to St. James Cathedral in Toronto to see the military jistory exhibit they had on
                Message 7 of 10 , Jul 31, 2002
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                  --- In WarOf1812@y..., "Larry Lozon" <lalozon@n...> wrote:
                  > From: "PEGGY Mathews" <ciefranche21e@m...>
                  >
                  >
                  > As for Militia Flags, The 1st Regiment Kent Militia was presented
                  > a flag from the ladies of the Regiment. It had the Rampant Stallion
                  > of Kent with the words "Loyal Kent Volunteers". This is the only
                  > Regimental Colours mentioned for the 1812-1815 time period.
                  >
                  > Other Canadian Militias report never recieving colours.

                  Those (if any) on the list who took my advice some time ago and went
                  to St. James Cathedral in Toronto to see the military jistory exhibit
                  they had on display would have seen the colours for the York Militia,
                  which were green, bearing a GR cypher and crown and the inscription
                  3rd York Militia.
                  T.Avery
                • Mark Dickerson
                  In June 1777 the Continental Congress passed a resolution on the design of a new flag. They wrote RESOLVED THAT THE FLAG OF THE THIRTEEN UNITED STATES BE
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jul 31, 2002
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                    In June 1777 the Continental Congress passed a resolution on the design
                    of a new flag. They wrote " RESOLVED THAT THE FLAG OF THE THIRTEEN UNITED
                    STATES BE THIRTEEN STRIPES ALTERNATE RED AND WHITE; THAT THE UNION BE
                    THIRTEEN STARS, WHITE IN A BLUE FIELD, REPRESENTING A NEW CONSTELLATION."
                    This resolution left out details of size, shape, and layout. Flag makers
                    were free to interpret as they wished. At least 18 different versions came
                    into use over the next few years. Despite his numerous requests for flags
                    for his troops, George Washington did not receive his first flag from the
                    Continental Congress until 1783, after the revolutionary War had ended!
                    In 1791 Vermont became a state, Kentucky a year later.The house and the
                    senate passed a bill stipulating that after May 1, 1795, "THE FLAG OF THE
                    UNITED STATES BE FIFTEEN STRIPES , ALTERNATE RED AND WHITE; AND THAT THE
                    UNION BE FIFTEEN STARS, WHITE IN A BLUE FIELD". But as new states entered
                    the union, some states-particularly the new arrivals- added new stars and
                    stripes so they would be included on the flag. Some state flags had 19
                    stars and stripes, while one government building in Washington DC had a flag
                    with only 9 stripes. In 1817 the Congress asked Capt. Sam Reid to come up
                    with a solution. It was decided to go back to the original 13 stripes and
                    allowing a new star to be added to the blue field for each new state that
                    entered the union. In 1912 (yes 1912) it was discovered that there were 66
                    different sizes of flags and proportions on federal buildings. President
                    Taft established official guidlines for the flag. On Dec 22, 1942, the Code
                    of Flag Display and Use came into being.
                    Don't even get me startd on Betsy Ross and that myth!
                    > Information from "Uncle John's bathroom Reader", Portable Press, copy
                    1999.

                    Hope this helps, sincerely,
                    Mark Dickerson.
                  • jas1812
                    At Fort Shelby, Prairie Du Chein Upper Mississippi, The American forces flew a flag that contained an eagle among the stars. The reports of the capture of the
                    Message 9 of 10 , Aug 1, 2002
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                      At Fort Shelby, Prairie Du Chein Upper Mississippi, The American
                      forces flew a flag that contained an eagle among the stars. The
                      reports of the capture of the fort include a comment about the eagle
                      having a musket ball hole in it. John Fenner from Green Bay
                      Wisconsin has had this flag reproduced for the event.

                      YHOS

                      Jas Lundgren
                      6th US Infy

                      >
                      > For American posts, would it normally be the Stars and Stripes or
                      > something else? Any regulations for size? The US colors I see at
                      > events tend to be *huge*, which as an USAian I rather like. Were
                      > States flags like we saw in the War of Independance still in vogue
                      > for militia and volunteer units?
                      >
                    • PEGGY MATHEWS
                      Dang! I ve been there every year for years and never noticed. Doh! Michael, aka. Capt. Joseph Rolette ... From: jas1812 Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 8:47
                      Message 10 of 10 , Aug 1, 2002
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                        Dang! I've been there every year for years and never noticed. Doh!

                        Michael, aka. Capt. Joseph Rolette

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: jas1812
                        Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 8:47 AM
                        To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: garrison colors

                        At Fort Shelby, Prairie Du Chein Upper Mississippi, The American
                        forces flew a flag that contained an eagle among the stars. The
                        reports of the capture of the fort include a comment about the eagle
                        having a musket ball hole in it. John Fenner from Green Bay
                        Wisconsin has had this flag reproduced for the event.

                        YHOS

                        Jas Lundgren
                        6th US Infy

                        >
                        > For American posts, would it normally be the Stars and Stripes or
                        > something else? Any regulations for size? The US colors I see at
                        > events tend to be *huge*, which as an USAian I rather like. Were
                        > States flags like we saw in the War of Independance still in vogue
                        > for militia and volunteer units?
                        >



                        The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


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