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Candles 'n Cartridges

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  • alaidh
    I was told by a revwar re-enactor that the paper for cartridges was coated with tallow, which both lubricated the barrel and kept the damp out of the powder.
    Message 1 of 19 , Jun 18, 2002
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      I was told by a revwar re-enactor that the paper for cartridges was
      coated with tallow, which both lubricated the barrel and kept the damp
      out of the powder. He suggested that beeswax would work even better. If
      true, should the paper be coated before or after making the cartridge?
      Should it be brushed on, or should the paper be coated by dippng in the
      melted tallow or whatever?

      Also, he said that most soldiers carried a candle stub to provide
      lighting at night when encamped. Would the candle more likely be
      beeswax or tallow?

      I'm looking at both of these from a Yankee prospective. Hints, advice,
      instructions welcome.

      Finally, would the candle be properly stored in the knapsack or the
      rucksack?

      Fitz
    • Larry Lozon
      From: alaidh I was told by a revwar re-enactor that the paper for cartridges was coated with tallow, which both lubricated the barrel and
      Message 2 of 19 , Jun 18, 2002
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        From: "alaidh" <alaidh@...>

        I was told by a revwar re-enactor that the paper for cartridges was
        coated with tallow, which both lubricated the barrel and kept the damp
        out of the powder.

        Also, he said that most soldiers carried a candle stub to provide
        lighting at night when encamped. Would the candle more likely be
        beeswax or tallow?

        Finally, would the candle be properly stored in the knapsack or the
        rucksack?
        -----------------------------
        Fitz

        Visit

        The British Brigade www.BritishBrigade.org
        Brigade of the American Revolution www.brigade.org
        Continental Line www.continentalline.org
        Northwest Territory Alliance www.nwta.com/main.html

        these are the Rev War umbrella groups

        you will find NO reference to wax covered cartridges.

        Whoever told you this does not follow the safety rules
        of the American War of Independence .

        Candles (in 1776) were way too expensive for the common
        soldier to afford, and why would he have them anyway, most
        could not read or write and you do not need light to find
        the mouth of a wine bottle.

        Also, I cannot find "rucksack" in the 1768 Royal or Continental
        Warrant for Infantry Clothing
      • Larry Lozon
        From: alaidh I was told by a revwar re-enactor that the paper for cartridges was coated with tallow, which both lubricated the barrel and
        Message 3 of 19 , Jun 18, 2002
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          From: "alaidh" <alaidh@...>

          I was told by a revwar re-enactor that the paper for cartridges was
          coated with tallow, which both lubricated the barrel and kept the damp
          out of the powder.
          ...........

          Fitz

          I did not mean to be snarky, kirt or disrespectful with any
          of my replies to you inquiry about cartridges.

          Since I do Rev, I was interested in researching your question and
          basically answered in sketch form as I could not find reference to
          your friends statement.

          You have peaked my interest in the cartridge making of the 1776-1815
          period and continue to search for you.

          My apologies as I did not mean to be respectful

          Larry
        • Scott Jeznach
          I was told by a revwar re-enactor that the paper for cartridges was coated with tallow, which both lubricated the barrel and kept the damp out of the powder.
          Message 4 of 19 , Jun 19, 2002
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            I was told by a revwar re-enactor that the paper for cartridges was
            coated with tallow, which both lubricated the barrel and kept the damp
            out of the powder. He suggested that beeswax would work even better. If
            true, should the paper be coated before or after making the cartridge?
            Should it be brushed on, or should the paper be coated by dippng in the
            melted tallow or whatever?

            >We've used paraffin wax for years on our cartridges. We roll and fill the cartridges, then dip the powder end in the paraffin.


            Also, he said that most soldiers carried a candle stub to provide
            lighting at night when encamped. Would the candle more likely be
            beeswax or tallow?

            >According to orders issued to the Guards Brigade fighting in the colonies during the Rev. War, each soldier was to carry 3 tallow candles in their haversack.

            I'm looking at both of these from a Yankee prospective. Hints, advice,
            instructions welcome.

            Finally, would the candle be properly stored in the knapsack or the
            rucksack?

            Scott J.
            Royal Marines





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • HQ93rd@aol.com
            Don t you wogs go a listnin to them Rooskie lies about yer cartridges bein greased with animal fat. Funny hows whether you is Hindoo or Mussleman that the
            Message 5 of 19 , Jun 19, 2002
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              Don't you wogs go a listnin to them Rooskie lies about yer cartridges bein'
              greased with animal fat. Funny hows whether you is Hindoo or Mussleman that
              the grease changes in the tellin from pork to beef, what?

              What....?....Oh.....it's 1812...NOT 1857...


              (wait for it...)



              "Never mind".

              B
              93rd SHRoFLHU
              THE Thin Red Line
              www.93rdhighlanders.com
            • dancingbobd@webtv.net
              Hi B, Go back to sleep. You obviously need it. Bob Dorian
              Message 6 of 19 , Jun 19, 2002
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                Hi B,

                Go back to sleep. You obviously need it.

                Bob Dorian
              • HQ93rd@aol.com
                In a message dated 6/19/02 5:10:29 PM, dancingbobd@webtv.net writes: Now look here....
                Message 7 of 19 , Jun 19, 2002
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                  In a message dated 6/19/02 5:10:29 PM, dancingbobd@... writes:

                  << Hi B,

                  Go back to sleep. You obviously need it.

                  Bob Dorian >>

                  Now look here....
                  zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

                  B
                  93rd SHRoFLHU
                  THE Thin Red Line
                  www.93rdhighlanders.com
                • giiir
                  ... cartridges bein ... Mussleman that ... I hear that you Heeland Laddies accuse the Sassenachs of greasing Your cartridges with castor oil. Say it isn t so
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jun 20, 2002
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                    --- In WarOf1812@y..., HQ93rd@a... wrote:
                    > Don't you wogs go a listnin to them Rooskie lies about yer
                    cartridges bein'
                    > greased with animal fat. Funny hows whether you is Hindoo or
                    Mussleman that
                    > the grease changes in the tellin from pork to beef, what?

                    I hear that you Heeland Laddies accuse the Sassenachs of greasing
                    Your cartridges with castor oil. Say it isn't so Major Bennings.
                    Fred Fishell
                  • HQ93rd@aol.com
                    In a message dated 6/20/02 5:46:53 AM, giiir@yahoo.ca writes:
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jun 20, 2002
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                      In a message dated 6/20/02 5:46:53 AM, giiir@... writes:

                      << I hear that you Heeland Laddies accuse the Sassenachs of greasing
                      Your cartridges with castor oil. Say it isn't so Major Bennings. >>

                      Castor oil?
                      What's Pollux and his sibling got to do with anything?
                      More like North Sea oil, what?
                      And who the bloody digireedoo is this Bennings?

                      zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
                      B
                      93rd SHRoFLHU
                      THE Thin Red Line
                      www.93rdhighlanders.com
                    • alaidh
                      ... No offense taken. My interest in this subject is based on not only making cartridges for tacticals, but my intention on doing some field tests with buck n
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jun 21, 2002
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                        --- In WarOf1812@y..., "Larry Lozon" <lalozon@n...> wrote:
                        > From: "alaidh" <alaidh@y...>
                        >
                        > I was told by a revwar re-enactor that the paper for cartridges was
                        > coated with tallow, which both lubricated the barrel and kept the damp
                        > out of the powder.
                        > ...........
                        >
                        > Fitz
                        >
                        > I did not mean to be snarky, kirt or disrespectful with any
                        > of my replies to you inquiry about cartridges.
                        >
                        > Since I do Rev, I was interested in researching your question and
                        > basically answered in sketch form as I could not find reference to
                        > your friends statement.
                        >
                        > You have peaked my interest in the cartridge making of the 1776-1815
                        > period and continue to search for you.
                        >
                        > My apologies as I did not mean to be respectful
                        >
                        > Larry

                        No offense taken.

                        My interest in this subject is based on not only making cartridges for
                        tacticals, but my intention on doing some field tests with buck 'n ball
                        as well. I intend to spread a sheet between supports and mark the
                        spread of the shot at 10, 20, 40, 50, and 75 yards
                        respectively...obviously, lubrication will have an effect of some sort
                        on the spread.


                        F
                      • ANDREW S BATEMAN
                        ... From: alaidh ... Sounds like an interesting experiment. I encourage you to post your results when you have them. I have done enough
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jun 21, 2002
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                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "alaidh" <alaidh@...>

                          > My interest in this subject is based on not only making cartridges for
                          > tacticals, but my intention on doing some field tests with buck 'n ball
                          > as well. I intend to spread a sheet between supports and mark the
                          > spread of the shot at 10, 20, 40, 50, and 75 yards
                          > respectively...obviously, lubrication will have an effect of some sort
                          > on the spread.

                          Sounds like an interesting experiment. I encourage you to post your results
                          when you have them. I have done enough buck and ball experiments in one
                          afternoon with my 1842 Springfield (110 grains FFg, .662 ball and 3 #00
                          buckshot) to know that a) those rounds kick like a mule - my shoulder was
                          black and blue the next day - and b) hits on a target the size of a garbage
                          can lid are easy out to 50 yards or so. At that range the ball punches
                          through the metal lid while the bucksot just leave dents, although they
                          still may be able to take a guy out of the line. (The 1842 was the last
                          smoothbore issued to the US army. I bought mine for early-war ACW events.
                          It is substantially the same as the 1795 Springfields of the War of 1812 but
                          in percussion instead of flint.)

                          The British Enfield cartridges that precipitated the Sepoy Mutiny were
                          greased with tallow because they contained a Pritchett type minie ball (no
                          lube grooves, with a clay or boxwood plug in the hollow base) which was
                          loaded into the muzzle still wrapped in the lubricated paper. AFAIK,
                          smoothbore cartridges whether single ball or buck and ball have never been
                          lubricated. This means that the musket becomes difficult to load after a
                          few shots. I got the following from "Civil War Firearms" by Joseph G.
                          Bilby:

                          "Interestingly, in a second test, paper cartridges prepared to more closely
                          approximate the original buck-and-ball rounds, with .64-caliber balls ... so
                          fouled an original Model 1842 musket that it was unloadable after a few
                          rounds. This experience was reflected in a report from the Fifty-seventh
                          Illinois Infantry during the Civil War: 'the old altered flint-lock muskets
                          of the regiment became fouled after a few rounds rendering it impossible to
                          get a load down, though many of the men, in their efforts to drive the
                          charges home, after getting them started, drove the rammers against the
                          trunks of trees.' ... The lack of lubrication in smoothbore cartridges was,
                          no doubt, responsible for the problem."

                          My companion on the afternoon of my tests, who was also shooting an 1842,
                          resorted to the same expedient and got his rammer stuck deep in a fencepost.
                          No wonder the British made it a policy to close with the bayonet after a
                          couple of volleys whenever possible!

                          Andrew Bateman, 41st Foot
                        • alaidh
                          ... Based on Donald Graves accounts of Chrysler s Farm, Lundy s Lane, and Chippawa, it seems that several US battalions used up almost all their ammunition in
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jun 22, 2002
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                            --- In WarOf1812@y..., "ANDREW S BATEMAN" <abateman@f...> wrote:
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: "alaidh" <alaidh@y...>
                            >
                            > > My interest in this subject is based on not only making cartridges for
                            > > tacticals, but my intention on doing some field tests with buck 'n ball
                            > > as well. I intend to spread a sheet between supports and mark the
                            > > spread of the shot at 10, 20, 40, 50, and 75 yards
                            > > respectively...obviously, lubrication will have an effect of some sort
                            > > on the spread.
                            >
                            > Sounds like an interesting experiment. I encourage you to post your results
                            > when you have them. I have done enough buck and ball experiments in one
                            > afternoon with my 1842 Springfield (110 grains FFg, .662 ball and 3 #00
                            > buckshot) to know that a) those rounds kick like a mule - my shoulder was
                            > black and blue the next day - and b) hits on a target the size of a garbage
                            > can lid are easy out to 50 yards or so. At that range the ball punches
                            > through the metal lid while the bucksot just leave dents, although they
                            > still may be able to take a guy out of the line. (The 1842 was the last
                            > smoothbore issued to the US army. I bought mine for early-war ACW events.
                            > It is substantially the same as the 1795 Springfields of the War of 1812 but
                            > in percussion instead of flint.)
                            >
                            > The British Enfield cartridges that precipitated the Sepoy Mutiny were
                            > greased with tallow because they contained a Pritchett type minie ball (no
                            > lube grooves, with a clay or boxwood plug in the hollow base) which was
                            > loaded into the muzzle still wrapped in the lubricated paper. AFAIK,
                            > smoothbore cartridges whether single ball or buck and ball have never been
                            > lubricated. This means that the musket becomes difficult to load after a
                            > few shots. I got the following from "Civil War Firearms" by Joseph G.
                            > Bilby:
                            >
                            > "Interestingly, in a second test, paper cartridges prepared to more closely
                            > approximate the original buck-and-ball rounds, with .64-caliber balls ... so
                            > fouled an original Model 1842 musket that it was unloadable after a few
                            > rounds. This experience was reflected in a report from the Fifty-seventh
                            > Illinois Infantry during the Civil War: 'the old altered flint-lock muskets
                            > of the regiment became fouled after a few rounds rendering it impossible to
                            > get a load down, though many of the men, in their efforts to drive the
                            > charges home, after getting them started, drove the rammers against the
                            > trunks of trees.' ... The lack of lubrication in smoothbore cartridges was,
                            > no doubt, responsible for the problem."
                            >
                            > My companion on the afternoon of my tests, who was also shooting an 1842,
                            > resorted to the same expedient and got his rammer stuck deep in a fencepost.
                            > No wonder the British made it a policy to close with the bayonet after a
                            > couple of volleys whenever possible!


                            Based on Donald Graves' accounts of Chrysler's Farm, Lundy's Lane, and
                            Chippawa, it seems that several US battalions used up almost all their
                            ammunition in very short order. As the basic woodblock load was 28
                            rounds, this would seem to indicate that the rounds weren't jamming in
                            the barrels.

                            This leads to the following question - would something used to preserve
                            a paper cartridge from damp as a primary function also mak a good
                            lubricant? In other words, would the cartridge papers either have been
                            protecte by tallow, or something else that had the same results, for
                            the purpose of keeping the cartridges useable? Why didn't the weapons
                            jam at Chrysler's Field, Lundy's Lane, and Chippawa as they did in fact
                            do when you re-created the firing environment in your tests with the
                            M1841?

                            It seems that there is something here that we don't know, and might
                            have to hypothisize.

                            Anyone want to take a shot at this? Andrew? Richard? Larry?


                            F







                            >
                            > Andrew Bateman, 41st Foot
                          • CB ROTC
                            My interest in this subject is based on not only making cartridges for tacticals, but my intention on doing some field tests with buck n ball as well. I
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jun 22, 2002
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                              My interest in this subject is based on not only making cartridges for
                              tacticals, but my intention on doing some field tests with buck 'n ball
                              as well. I intend to spread a sheet between supports and mark the
                              spread of the shot at 10, 20, 40, 50, and 75 yards respectively...
                              obviously, lubrication will have an effect of some sort
                              on the spread.

                              Sounds like an interesting experiment. I encourage you to post your results
                              when you have them. I have done enough buck and ball experiments in one
                              afternoon with my 1842 Springfield (110 grains FFg, .662 ball and 3 #00
                              buckshot) to know that a) those rounds kick like a mule - my shoulder was
                              black and blue the next day - and b) hits on a target the size of a garbage
                              can lid are easy out to 50 yards or so. At that range the ball punches
                              through the metal lid while the bucksot just leave dents, although they
                              still may be able to take a guy out of the line. (The 1842 was the last
                              smoothbore issued to the US army. I bought mine for early-war ACW events.
                              It is substantially the same as the 1795 Springfields of the War of 1812 but
                              in percussion instead of flint.)

                              The British Enfield cartridges that precipitated the Sepoy Mutiny were
                              greased with tallow because they contained a Pritchett type minie ball (no
                              lube grooves, with a clay or boxwood plug in the hollow base) which was
                              loaded into the muzzle still wrapped in the lubricated paper. AFAIK,
                              smoothbore cartridges whether single ball or buck and ball have never been
                              lubricated. This means that the musket becomes difficult to load after a
                              few shots. I got the following from "Civil War Firearms" by Joseph G.
                              Bilby:
                              "Interestingly, in a second test, paper cartridges prepared to more closely
                              approximate the original buck-and-ball rounds, with .64-caliber balls ... so
                              fouled an original Model 1842 musket that it was unloadable after a few
                              rounds. This experience was reflected in a report from the Fifty-seventh
                              Illinois Infantry during the Civil War: 'the old altered flint-lock muskets
                              of the regiment became fouled after a few rounds rendering it impossible to
                              get a load down, though many of the men, in their efforts to drive the
                              charges home, after getting them started, drove the rammers against the
                              trunks of trees.' ... The lack of lubrication in smoothbore cartridges was,
                              no doubt, responsible for the problem."

                              My companion on the afternoon of my tests, who was also shooting an 1842,
                              resorted to the same expedient and got his rammer stuck deep in a fencepost.
                              No wonder the British made it a policy to close with the bayonet after a
                              couple of volleys whenever possible!

                              Based on Donald Graves' accounts of Chrysler's Farm, Lundy's Lane, and
                              Chippawa, it seems that several US battalions used up almost all their
                              ammunition in very short order. As the basic woodblock load was 28
                              rounds, this would seem to indicate that the rounds weren't jamming in
                              the barrels.

                              This leads to the following question - would something used to preserve
                              a paper cartridge from damp as a primary function also mak a good
                              lubricant? In other words, would the cartridge papers either have been
                              protecte by tallow, or something else that had the same results, for
                              the purpose of keeping the cartridges useable? Why didn't the weapons
                              jam at Chrysler's Field, Lundy's Lane, and Chippawa as they did in fact
                              do when you re-created the firing environment in your tests with the
                              M1841?

                              It seems that there is something here that we don't know, and might
                              have to hypothisize.

                              Anyone want to take a shot at this? Andrew? Richard? Larry?
                              F


                              *** In reading on the skirmishes near the River Canard (July 1812) i found a
                              passage (paraphrased here) "the Americans retired after running low on on
                              ammunition without inflicting any casualties on the British"...
                              Would appear that the Americans fired a good portion of their 28 rounds to
                              no effect.
                              CB***




                              Andrew Bateman, 41st Foot





                              _________________________________________________________________
                              Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
                            • ebclemson
                              ... Fitz, I would like to take a shot, even though I m not Andrew or Richard or Larry.
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jun 23, 2002
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                                --- In WarOf1812@y..., "alaidh" <alaidh@y...> wrote:
                                > --- In WarOf1812@y..., "ANDREW S BATEMAN" <abateman@f...> wrote:
                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > From: "alaidh" <alaidh@y...>
                                > >
                                > > > My interest in this subject is based on not only making cartridges for
                                > > > tacticals, but my intention on doing some field tests with buck 'n ball
                                > > > as well. I intend to spread a sheet between supports and mark the
                                > > > spread of the shot at 10, 20, 40, 50, and 75 yards
                                > > > respectively...obviously, lubrication will have an effect of some sort
                                > > > on the spread.
                                > >
                                > > Sounds like an interesting experiment. I encourage you to post your results
                                > > when you have them. I have done enough buck and ball experiments in one
                                > > afternoon with my 1842 Springfield (110 grains FFg, .662 ball and 3 #00
                                > > buckshot) to know that a) those rounds kick like a mule - my shoulder was
                                > > black and blue the next day - and b) hits on a target the size of a garbage
                                > > can lid are easy out to 50 yards or so. At that range the ball punches
                                > > through the metal lid while the bucksot just leave dents, although they
                                > > still may be able to take a guy out of the line. (The 1842 was the last
                                > > smoothbore issued to the US army. I bought mine for early-war ACW events.
                                > > It is substantially the same as the 1795 Springfields of the War of 1812 but
                                > > in percussion instead of flint.)
                                > >
                                > > The British Enfield cartridges that precipitated the Sepoy Mutiny were
                                > > greased with tallow because they contained a Pritchett type minie ball (no
                                > > lube grooves, with a clay or boxwood plug in the hollow base) which was
                                > > loaded into the muzzle still wrapped in the lubricated paper. AFAIK,
                                > > smoothbore cartridges whether single ball or buck and ball have never been
                                > > lubricated. This means that the musket becomes difficult to load after a
                                > > few shots. I got the following from "Civil War Firearms" by Joseph G.
                                > > Bilby:
                                > >
                                > > "Interestingly, in a second test, paper cartridges prepared to more closely
                                > > approximate the original buck-and-ball rounds, with .64-caliber balls ... so
                                > > fouled an original Model 1842 musket that it was unloadable after a few
                                > > rounds. This experience was reflected in a report from the Fifty-seventh
                                > > Illinois Infantry during the Civil War: 'the old altered flint-lock muskets
                                > > of the regiment became fouled after a few rounds rendering it impossible to
                                > > get a load down, though many of the men, in their efforts to drive the
                                > > charges home, after getting them started, drove the rammers against the
                                > > trunks of trees.' ... The lack of lubrication in smoothbore cartridges was,
                                > > no doubt, responsible for the problem."
                                > >
                                > > My companion on the afternoon of my tests, who was also shooting an 1842,
                                > > resorted to the same expedient and got his rammer stuck deep in a fencepost.
                                > > No wonder the British made it a policy to close with the bayonet after a
                                > > couple of volleys whenever possible!
                                >
                                >
                                > Based on Donald Graves' accounts of Chrysler's Farm, Lundy's Lane, and
                                > Chippawa, it seems that several US battalions used up almost all their
                                > ammunition in very short order. As the basic woodblock load was 28
                                > rounds, this would seem to indicate that the rounds weren't jamming in
                                > the barrels.
                                >
                                > This leads to the following question - would something used to preserve
                                > a paper cartridge from damp as a primary function also mak a good
                                > lubricant? In other words, would the cartridge papers either have been
                                > protecte by tallow, or something else that had the same results, for
                                > the purpose of keeping the cartridges useable? Why didn't the weapons
                                > jam at Chrysler's Field, Lundy's Lane, and Chippawa as they did in fact
                                > do when you re-created the firing environment in your tests with the
                                > M1841?
                                >
                                > It seems that there is something here that we don't know, and might
                                > have to hypothisize.
                                >
                                > Anyone want to take a shot at this? Andrew? Richard? Larry?
                                >
                                >F


                                Fitz, I would like to take a shot, even though I'm not Andrew or Richard or Larry. At Lundys Lane, the First Infantry U. States, fired an average of 70 rounds of "Buck and Ball". Obviously, they had no problem with major fouling.Captain Symmes had also stated that their cartridges were "larger and louder than the rest of the American Army." I could only speculate what this means. Have you considered yet if the cartridge paper that we use today, may not even be close to what they used? I have seen in several news papers that "Cartridge paper" was a distinctly produced item. It appears that they generally did not rip a page from the Washington Intelligencer and make a cartridge. So, why was "cartridge paper" different? Was it coated or treated? Was it a specific thickness? Dave Bennett, 1st U. States Infantry and Missouri Rangers.
                              • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                                One can still buy cartridge paper from art suply houses and seems to be based on a slightly inferior recipe for rag paper, still quite flexible and strong
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jun 23, 2002
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                                  One can still buy 'cartridge paper' from art suply houses and seems to be based on a slightly inferior recipe for rag paper, still quite flexible and strong but fairly easy to tear if one wants to. Looking at other modern papers which have old names it apears that the designation is more a discription of the finish, this bing the case I would speculate that period cartridge paper is roughly equivelent to the paper found in the ordinary books of the time, not the high quality stuff but certainly not newspaper quality which is far too flimsy. (Yes, I do have some original period newspapers and NO I am NOT going to conduct experiments with them:-)).

                                  BTW I supose everyone is aware that, in the British army, blank cartridges were made up with blue paper so that they could never be mixed up with live.

                                  Cheers

                                  Tim
                                • David Brunelle
                                  The historic site I used to work at used blue cartridge paper (Blank, White for Live) which was described as Onion Paper which is very strong for holding
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Jun 23, 2002
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                                    The historic site I used to work at used blue cartridge paper (Blank, White
                                    for Live) which was described as "Onion Paper" which is very strong for
                                    holding black powder but is very easily ripped by teeth. If we were being
                                    very authentic we would tie the bottoms with string and quick dip the entire
                                    cartridge in tallow or animal fat to make them somewhat water prove.

                                    Dave Brunelle
                                  • petemonahan@aol.com
                                    In a message dated 23/06/02 10:04:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ebclemson@webtv.net writes: the cartridge paper we use today may not even be close... Right
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Jun 23, 2002
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                                      In a message dated 23/06/02 10:04:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                      ebclemson@... writes:

                                      "the cartridge paper we use today may not even be close..."

                                      Right on, Dave! Any art store will happily sell you blocks/reams/packs of
                                      "cartridge paper". It is, to the best of my limited recollection - damn old
                                      age anyway - a stiff, paper not unlike really good writing paper: holds a
                                      fold/crease easily and doesn't tear or split at all easily in even double ply
                                      thickness. Whether it was oiled, waxed, etc. is a second question, but ya
                                      gotta figure if its got its own name 150 years later, when 80% of the
                                      population don't even know what a cartridge is, it wasn't just newsprint or
                                      old scraps.

                                      Peter Monahan
                                      petemonahan@...
                                      705-435-0953


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • CRAIG WILLIAMS
                                      The cartridge paper we have available today comes in one weight, which is fairly heavy. Since we have little use for various grades of paper these days we
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Jun 23, 2002
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                                        The "cartridge" paper we have available today comes in one weight, which is
                                        fairly heavy. Since we have little use for various grades of paper these
                                        days we don't produce that many varieties and wieghts, but it is very
                                        possible that there were lighter grades of cartridge around, I will look
                                        into this one and report back. Since the advent of computers and
                                        grafix/drawing programs (that make everyone and his dog think that they're
                                        designers) the demand for good quality paper has wained and it's getting
                                        harder for real artists to get the neccessary ingredients to ply thier
                                        trade. ....Art on plain bond? Bulls***!!

                                        Craig
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: <BritcomHMP@...>
                                        To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 12:16 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Re: Candles 'n Cartridges


                                        > One can still buy 'cartridge paper' from art suply houses and seems to be
                                        based on a slightly inferior recipe for rag paper, still quite flexible and
                                        strong but fairly easy to tear if one wants to. Looking at other modern
                                        papers which have old names it apears that the designation is more a
                                        discription of the finish, this bing the case I would speculate that period
                                        cartridge paper is roughly equivelent to the paper found in the ordinary
                                        books of the time, not the high quality stuff but certainly not newspaper
                                        quality which is far too flimsy. (Yes, I do have some original period
                                        newspapers and NO I am NOT going to conduct experiments with them:-)).
                                        >
                                        > BTW I supose everyone is aware that, in the British army, blank cartridges
                                        were made up with blue paper so that they could never be mixed up with live.
                                        >
                                        > Cheers
                                        >
                                        > Tim
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                                        square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                                        square miles...
                                        >
                                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • HQ93rd@aol.com
                                        In a message dated 6/21/02 6:50:16 PM, alaidh@yahoo.com writes: Not even I will be
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Jun 24, 2002
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                                          In a message dated 6/21/02 6:50:16 PM, alaidh@... writes:

                                          << obviously, lubrication will have an effect of some sort
                                          on the spread. >>

                                          Not even I will be crass enough to make the obvious joke here...
                                          ;-)
                                          B
                                          93rd SHRoFLHU
                                          THE Thin Red Line
                                          www.93rdhighlanders.com
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