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Re: Beards

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  • ANDREW S BATEMAN
    ... From: Nick Wash ... There are probably some good books out there that can explain it better than I can, but the pioneers were
    Message 1 of 13 , Jun 5, 2002
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Nick Wash" <bomberb17@...>

      > i was wondering why were pioneers and cavalry farriers the only troops
      > allowed to sport beards in wellingtons army?
      > was there a reason or regulations or some sort of work related thing?

      There are probably some good books out there that can explain it better than
      I can, but the pioneers were often detached ahead of the army clearing roads
      and repairing bridges, etc. so were not expected to have time to shave.

      > was this the same in the north & south armies in the american civil war?

      ACW armies didn't have designated "pioneers" - that was one of the niceties
      that fell by the wayside in raising and organizing the large volunteer
      armies of that war. Facial hair was up to personal discretion in ACW armies
      and beards were very common, as was the fashion in that decade. Especially
      among officers, who felt that beards made them look more mature and
      authoritative. Clean shaven ACW officers usually had a boyish appearance,
      and beardless Confederate generals were very rare.

      Andrew Bateman, 41st Reg't of Foot.
    • HQ93rd@aol.com
      In a message dated 6/5/02 2:33:57 PM, BritcomHMP@aol.com writes:
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 5, 2002
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        In a message dated 6/5/02 2:33:57 PM, BritcomHMP@... writes:

        << NOTE I am NOT referring to
        the Napoleonic Wars here but to the Crimea and later. The rule in the Crimea
        was supposed to be that the chin was to be kept clean but a mustache,
        muttonchops and neck hair was permitted. Photographic evidence shows that
        full beards were certainly the norm. >>

        I recall seeing some "official" order which allowed the beards, and hence,
        the amount of plumage which sprouted.
        If one checks on art and fashion of the time, it is interesting to see that
        ancient Assyria was being "discovered", and the art work from that time
        period included beards very reminiscent of those grown and "become
        fashionable" in the mid 1800s!



        B (with a wife who used to work for an art museum...)
        93rd SHRoFLHU
        THE Thin Red Line
        www.93rdhighlanders.com
      • ANDREW S BATEMAN
        ... From: ... that ... Nah, I think it was just an attempt to keep warm! Not to mention the shaving water kept freezing. There s always a
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 5, 2002
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <HQ93rd@...>
          >
          > If one checks on art and fashion of the time, it is interesting to see
          that
          > ancient Assyria was being "discovered", and the art work from that time
          > period included beards very reminiscent of those grown and "become
          > fashionable" in the mid 1800s!

          Nah, I think it was just an attempt to keep warm! Not to mention the
          shaving water kept freezing. There's always a practical explanation.......

          Andrew Bateman, 41st Foot
          (Who loves that Scotch ad with the tagline "Defenders of the Malt", under a
          photo of some bearded Crimean Highlander veterans)
        • Raymond Hobbs
          Now I hate to disagree with a fellow member of the 41st - but I do believe Major Benning is right (God, I can t believe I ve just written that!!!) In the
          Message 4 of 13 , Jun 6, 2002
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            Now I hate to disagree with a fellow member of the 41st - but I do
            believe Major Benning is right (God, I can't believe I've just written
            that!!!) In the transition between the 18th and 19th centuries, the
            socalled late baroque, or early Romantic period, classical fashion was
            in. That is, Greek and Roman. Look at the 'empire dress' as an
            example.
            Note too how most young men in Greek and Roman statues are clean shaven,
            and have 'Regency' haircuts!!
            Fashion fadism, based on archaeological discovery was common throughout
            the late 18th and early 19th centuries. In Late Victorian times,
            jewelry especially went 'Egyptian'.
            Ray Hobbs
            41st Regt.
            In a former life - Archaeologist in the Middle East!

            For a great book on the topic - David Lowenthal, The Heritage Crusade
            and the Spoils of History, Cambridge UP: 1998.

            ANDREW S BATEMAN wrote:

            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: <HQ93rd@...>
            > >
            > > If one checks on art and fashion of the time, it is interesting to
            > see
            > that
            > > ancient Assyria was being "discovered", and the art work from that
            > time
            > > period included beards very reminiscent of those grown and "become
            > > fashionable" in the mid 1800s!
            >
            > Nah, I think it was just an attempt to keep warm! Not to mention the
            > shaving water kept freezing. There's always a practical
            > explanation.......
            >
            > Andrew Bateman, 41st Foot
            > (Who loves that Scotch ad with the tagline "Defenders of the Malt",
            > under a
            > photo of some bearded Crimean Highlander veterans)
            >
            >
            >
            > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
            > of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
            > THOUSANDS of square miles...
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Larry Lozon
            From: Raymond Hobbs Look at the empire dress as an example. Note too how most ... Greek and Roman statues are clean shaven, and
            Message 5 of 13 , Jun 6, 2002
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              From: "Raymond Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>

              Look at the 'empire dress' as an example.
              Note too how most ... Greek and Roman statues are clean shaven,
              and have 'Regency' haircuts!!

              ..............

              Now that you mention it Corporal 'Obbs

              Never seen a Greek or Roman woman with a beard ................ :^)
            • Raymond Hobbs
              Have you never heard of Jenton Benning? Hic! Obbs 41st ... ADVERTISEMENT ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 13 , Jun 6, 2002
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                Have you never heard of Jenton Benning? Hic!
                'Obbs
                41st

                HQ93rd@... wrote:

                >
                > In a message dated 6/6/02 6:02:01 AM, ray.hobbs@... writes:
                >
                > << but I do
                > believe Major Benning is right >>
                >
                > I hope so, but who the hell is this Benning fellow?
                > ;-)
                > B
                > 93rd SHRoFLHU
                > THE Thin Red Line
                > www.93rdhighlanders.com
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                ADVERTISEMENT


                >
                > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
                > of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                > THOUSANDS of square miles...
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • HQ93rd@aol.com
                In a message dated 6/6/02 6:02:01 AM, ray.hobbs@sympatico.ca writes: I hope so, but who the hell is this Benning
                Message 7 of 13 , Jun 6, 2002
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                  In a message dated 6/6/02 6:02:01 AM, ray.hobbs@... writes:

                  << but I do
                  believe Major Benning is right >>

                  I hope so, but who the hell is this Benning fellow?
                  ;-)
                  B
                  93rd SHRoFLHU
                  THE Thin Red Line
                  www.93rdhighlanders.com
                • dancingbobd@webtv.net
                  Hi Maj. B, Well, obviously the guy that the Fort in Georgia was named for!! Even I know that. Bob Dorian Former US Army competitive rifle shooter who fired in
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jun 6, 2002
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                    Hi Maj. B,

                    Well, obviously the guy that the Fort in Georgia was named for!! Even I
                    know that.

                    Bob Dorian
                    Former US Army competitive rifle shooter who fired in competition at Ft.
                    Benning, back in the 60"s. (Yes, I'm and old fart!)
                  • David M. Carpenter
                    And Benning had one heck of a BEARD! DC who was at Benning in early 1991 ... From: To: Sent: Thursday, June
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jun 6, 2002
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                      And Benning had one heck of a BEARD!

                      DC
                      who was at Benning in early 1991


                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: <dancingbobd@...>
                      To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 5:22 PM
                      Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Beards


                      > Hi Maj. B,
                      >
                      > Well, obviously the guy that the Fort in Georgia was named for!! Even I
                      > know that.
                      >
                      > Bob Dorian
                      > Former US Army competitive rifle shooter who fired in competition at Ft.
                      > Benning, back in the 60"s. (Yes, I'm and old fart!)
                      >
                      >
                      > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                      square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                      square miles...
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                    • Kevin Windsor
                      I ve seen a couple, but I never touched em
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jun 6, 2002
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                        I've seen a couple, but I never touched 'em

                        Larry Lozon wrote:

                        > Now that you mention it Corporal 'Obbs
                        >
                        > Never seen a Greek or Roman woman with a beard ................ :^)
                        >
                      • Andrew S. Finch
                        Something different. Did anybody in Canada cross to the u.s. for a re-enactment this weekend specifically at the peace bridge. The reason I ask is that I was
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jun 8, 2002
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                          Something different.
                          Did anybody in Canada cross to the u.s. for a re-enactment this weekend
                          specifically at the peace bridge.
                          The reason I ask is that I was refused entry and turned back on the basis
                          that as a re-enactor I am actually an actor and could be taking a job away
                          from an American.
                          The fact I do not receive compensation had no interest with the immigration
                          boys.
                          When I asked if this was new policy I was advised by agent J.M. Ignasiak
                          that he had been an agent for ten years and this had always been policy and
                          I was lucky not to have been turned back before.
                          He made it very clear that this would apply to all re-enactors so needless
                          to say I am interested if anyone else has had the experience.
                          Is this just an instance of someone getting a hair up their butt or have we
                          got a problem .
                          Hope our none north American friends can tolerate this local issue.
                        • gord_1812
                          Hey Andrew Sounds like you caught a new guy that was having a bad day! Gord ... weekend ... basis ... job away ... immigration ... Ignasiak ... policy and ...
                          Message 12 of 13 , Jun 9, 2002
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                            Hey Andrew
                            Sounds like you caught a new guy that was having a bad day!

                            Gord


                            --- In WarOf1812@y..., " Andrew S. Finch" <daphkami@e...> wrote:
                            > Something different.
                            > Did anybody in Canada cross to the u.s. for a re-enactment this
                            weekend
                            > specifically at the peace bridge.
                            > The reason I ask is that I was refused entry and turned back on the
                            basis
                            > that as a re-enactor I am actually an actor and could be taking a
                            job away
                            > from an American.
                            > The fact I do not receive compensation had no interest with the
                            immigration
                            > boys.
                            > When I asked if this was new policy I was advised by agent J.M.
                            Ignasiak
                            > that he had been an agent for ten years and this had always been
                            policy and
                            > I was lucky not to have been turned back before.
                            > He made it very clear that this would apply to all re-enactors so
                            needless
                            > to say I am interested if anyone else has had the experience.
                            > Is this just an instance of someone getting a hair up their butt or
                            have we
                            > got a problem .
                            > Hope our none north American friends can tolerate this local issue.
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