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Re: [WarOf1812] Re: Period Sutler Wares- Was Pens and Histories

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  • Ted Y.
    ... Yes, That is another subject. I was just commenting to someone that 1812 reenacting reminded me in many ways of Rev. War in the late 60 s, about a decade
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 2, 2002
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      > In the
      > past few years I've
      > seen sutlers attempting to sell steel nibbed pen
      > (often stuck into a
      > piece of broom corn as a handle. and feel this is
      > just an attempt to
      > sell their items. Mind you if people will sell
      > tricorn caps at 1812
      > events why not sell items which are well after our
      > period. OK, OK,
      > that's another subject.

      Yes, That is another subject. I was just commenting to
      someone that 1812 reenacting reminded me in many ways
      of Rev. War in the late 60's, about a decade before
      the bicentennial. Many people were using leftover gear
      and weaponry from the Civil War centennial, some of
      which was Spanish-American War surplus off
      Bannermann's Island. Only a few people weree turning
      out material for the Rev. War era and they weren't
      even making the correct muskets in a mass produced
      manner. Most of the flintlocks were either custom
      Besses or Belgian trade flintlocks, including some
      "Long Tom" guns that were taller than the folks
      carrying them. It seems like there's more that will go
      for 1812, but it's sometimes hard to tell what's
      correct if you are new to this. What are some good
      sutlers that offer period wares? I know that some seem
      to be catering to multi-period, meaning you could end
      up with something 1830's or 40's if you don't know.
      Some of the earlier material from the 18th century
      should work, but a number of things were on the way
      out
      by then, if not long gone, like the tricorns.

      Another point in question, what items do you think
      need to be reproduced that no one is making? For
      example; nobody thought to make a 3 band musket until
      AFTER the Civil War centennial ended. For Rev. War a
      mass produced 1st model Bess is still on the drawing
      board, but due perhaps next year, if India and
      Pakistan don't nuke each other. Palmetto Arms IS
      importing a North & Cheney pistol M1799, however.

      Y.H. & O.S.

      Ted Yeatman
      1st MD Rifle BN
      Fell's Point Rifles


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    • colsjtjones2000
      Heavens forbid that I would ever want to get involved in a dialogue re metal nibs again! Doug ... I ve ... a ... to ... softened ... than ... the ... 1840s
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 3, 2002
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        Heavens forbid that I would ever want to get involved in a dialogue
        re metal nibs again! Doug



        --- In WarOf1812@y..., "lenthecooper" <lheidebrecht@L...> wrote:
        > Peter,
        > I don't think that this is quite correct. In the past few years
        I've
        > seen sutlers attempting to sell steel nibbed pen (often stuck into
        a
        > piece of broom corn as a handle. and feel this is just an attempt
        to
        > sell their items. Mind you if people will sell tricorn caps at 1812
        > events why not sell items which are well after our period. OK, OK,
        > that's another subject.
        >
        > Mell George, "Writing Antiques", Shire Publications LTD, 1996,UK
        >
        > Pg 5, Pens and Nibs
        > 'About 1823 some nibs were cut from horn and tortoiseshell,
        softened
        > and reinforced with chips of diamond, ruby and other gemstones for
        > greater durability. Thet made little impact for,in 1832, no less
        than
        > 33,668,000 quill pens were in use in Britian, most imported from
        the
        > continent.'...
        > '...quills almost disappeared when steel nibs were perfected..'
        > The book later goes onto speak toward the steel pen nibs of the
        1840s
        > and an 1849 glass pen and also about the reservoir systms for quill
        > pens (1819, the Penograghic Fountain Pen.)
        >
        > Cheers,
        >
        > Len
        >
        > --- In WarOf1812@y..., petemonahan@a... wrote:
        > > Ted
        > > The short answer is that there were steel pen nibs by 1812, but
        > they were
        > > probably not common.
        > >
        > > I did some research a couple of years ago on steel nibbed pens.
        > They were
        > > patented, or some version was, about 1818 or so, by a clever chap
        > in
        > > Birmingham (?). Or so says the pen collectors club in the U.K.
        > (Sorry, this
        > > is approximate, but I've not got the references in front of me,
        but
        > the
        > > essentials are accurate.) My guess, based on that, was that they
        > must have
        > > been in use before that, especially given that the Romans had
        > bronze nibs by
        > > 300 C.E. Sure enough, I have found two mentions of steel nibs by
        > 1800.
        > > (Again, no exact references, but I might be able to find them.)
        > >
        > > My guess would be that professional clerks -Bureaucrats ! Ugh!
        > Spit twice!
        > > :) - used them. So, army clerks and staff wallahs had them, I'd
        > guess, while
        > > ordinary citizens used the (cheaper) quills, probaly well into
        the
        > 1820's &
        > > '30''s. I hope this helps.
        > >
        > > Peter Monahan, Company Clerk,
        > > Royal Newfoundland Regiment
        > >
        > > petemonahan@a...
        > > 705-435-0953
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • petemonahan@aol.com
        Len Yes, I read (and have) the Shire series pens book and had concluded as you do that steel nibs were post-us, but I ve since seen a reference which says
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 3, 2002
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          Len
          Yes, I read (and have) the Shire series pens book and had concluded as you do
          that steel nibs were post-us, but I've since seen a reference which says
          "earlier, by 1805". The key word in the book may be "perfected". I believe
          the earlist had no slit in the nib - simply a small steel blade, so likely
          very inefficient because only the ink. Anyway, I'll have to dig out my
          reference again. (By the by, I tend to agree with your assessment of the
          broom straw + nib sets, though to be fair the suttlers may have been told
          they were o.k. for 1812.)

          Peter Monahan
          petemonahan@...
          705-435-0953


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