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Re: Pens and Histories

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  • lenthecooper
    Peter, I don t think that this is quite correct. In the past few years I ve seen sutlers attempting to sell steel nibbed pen (often stuck into a piece of broom
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 2, 2002
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      Peter,
      I don't think that this is quite correct. In the past few years I've
      seen sutlers attempting to sell steel nibbed pen (often stuck into a
      piece of broom corn as a handle. and feel this is just an attempt to
      sell their items. Mind you if people will sell tricorn caps at 1812
      events why not sell items which are well after our period. OK, OK,
      that's another subject.

      Mell George, "Writing Antiques", Shire Publications LTD, 1996,UK

      Pg 5, Pens and Nibs
      'About 1823 some nibs were cut from horn and tortoiseshell, softened
      and reinforced with chips of diamond, ruby and other gemstones for
      greater durability. Thet made little impact for,in 1832, no less than
      33,668,000 quill pens were in use in Britian, most imported from the
      continent.'...
      '...quills almost disappeared when steel nibs were perfected..'
      The book later goes onto speak toward the steel pen nibs of the 1840s
      and an 1849 glass pen and also about the reservoir systms for quill
      pens (1819, the Penograghic Fountain Pen.)

      Cheers,

      Len

      --- In WarOf1812@y..., petemonahan@a... wrote:
      > Ted
      > The short answer is that there were steel pen nibs by 1812, but
      they were
      > probably not common.
      >
      > I did some research a couple of years ago on steel nibbed pens.
      They were
      > patented, or some version was, about 1818 or so, by a clever chap
      in
      > Birmingham (?). Or so says the pen collectors club in the U.K.
      (Sorry, this
      > is approximate, but I've not got the references in front of me, but
      the
      > essentials are accurate.) My guess, based on that, was that they
      must have
      > been in use before that, especially given that the Romans had
      bronze nibs by
      > 300 C.E. Sure enough, I have found two mentions of steel nibs by
      1800.
      > (Again, no exact references, but I might be able to find them.)
      >
      > My guess would be that professional clerks -Bureaucrats ! Ugh!
      Spit twice!
      > :) - used them. So, army clerks and staff wallahs had them, I'd
      guess, while
      > ordinary citizens used the (cheaper) quills, probaly well into the
      1820's &
      > '30''s. I hope this helps.
      >
      > Peter Monahan, Company Clerk,
      > Royal Newfoundland Regiment
      >
      > petemonahan@a...
      > 705-435-0953
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Raymond Hobbs
      I have a copy of Noah Freer s requisition list for 1813. Freer was Military Secretary in the Canadas. Kevin is right - no metal nibs, just quills, hundreds
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 2, 2002
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        I have a copy of Noah Freer's requisition list for 1813. Freer was
        Military Secretary in the Canadas. Kevin is right - no metal nibs, just
        quills, hundreds of them.
        Ray Hobbs
        41st Regt. of Foot

        Kevin Windsor wrote:

        > This was covered before. metal nibs were out, but someone posted (I
        > think king Larry)Napoleon's baggage list and no sign of metal nibs, so
        > if the "ruler of the free
        > world" didn't have them then no did. Especially lowly subalterns and
        > surgeons like us!
        > Lt Kevin
        > 89th
        >
        > "Ted Y." wrote:
        >
        > > This may have been covered in another thread some time
        > > ago, but were the wooden, metal tipped pens in use by
        > > the time of the war, or were they still using goose
        > > quills?
        > >
        > > Also, what's the best overall general history of the
        > > war?
        > >
        >
        >
        > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
        > of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
        > THOUSANDS of square miles...
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ted Y.
        ... Yes, That is another subject. I was just commenting to someone that 1812 reenacting reminded me in many ways of Rev. War in the late 60 s, about a decade
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 2, 2002
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          > In the
          > past few years I've
          > seen sutlers attempting to sell steel nibbed pen
          > (often stuck into a
          > piece of broom corn as a handle. and feel this is
          > just an attempt to
          > sell their items. Mind you if people will sell
          > tricorn caps at 1812
          > events why not sell items which are well after our
          > period. OK, OK,
          > that's another subject.

          Yes, That is another subject. I was just commenting to
          someone that 1812 reenacting reminded me in many ways
          of Rev. War in the late 60's, about a decade before
          the bicentennial. Many people were using leftover gear
          and weaponry from the Civil War centennial, some of
          which was Spanish-American War surplus off
          Bannermann's Island. Only a few people weree turning
          out material for the Rev. War era and they weren't
          even making the correct muskets in a mass produced
          manner. Most of the flintlocks were either custom
          Besses or Belgian trade flintlocks, including some
          "Long Tom" guns that were taller than the folks
          carrying them. It seems like there's more that will go
          for 1812, but it's sometimes hard to tell what's
          correct if you are new to this. What are some good
          sutlers that offer period wares? I know that some seem
          to be catering to multi-period, meaning you could end
          up with something 1830's or 40's if you don't know.
          Some of the earlier material from the 18th century
          should work, but a number of things were on the way
          out
          by then, if not long gone, like the tricorns.

          Another point in question, what items do you think
          need to be reproduced that no one is making? For
          example; nobody thought to make a 3 band musket until
          AFTER the Civil War centennial ended. For Rev. War a
          mass produced 1st model Bess is still on the drawing
          board, but due perhaps next year, if India and
          Pakistan don't nuke each other. Palmetto Arms IS
          importing a North & Cheney pistol M1799, however.

          Y.H. & O.S.

          Ted Yeatman
          1st MD Rifle BN
          Fell's Point Rifles


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        • colsjtjones2000
          Heavens forbid that I would ever want to get involved in a dialogue re metal nibs again! Doug ... I ve ... a ... to ... softened ... than ... the ... 1840s
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 3, 2002
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            Heavens forbid that I would ever want to get involved in a dialogue
            re metal nibs again! Doug



            --- In WarOf1812@y..., "lenthecooper" <lheidebrecht@L...> wrote:
            > Peter,
            > I don't think that this is quite correct. In the past few years
            I've
            > seen sutlers attempting to sell steel nibbed pen (often stuck into
            a
            > piece of broom corn as a handle. and feel this is just an attempt
            to
            > sell their items. Mind you if people will sell tricorn caps at 1812
            > events why not sell items which are well after our period. OK, OK,
            > that's another subject.
            >
            > Mell George, "Writing Antiques", Shire Publications LTD, 1996,UK
            >
            > Pg 5, Pens and Nibs
            > 'About 1823 some nibs were cut from horn and tortoiseshell,
            softened
            > and reinforced with chips of diamond, ruby and other gemstones for
            > greater durability. Thet made little impact for,in 1832, no less
            than
            > 33,668,000 quill pens were in use in Britian, most imported from
            the
            > continent.'...
            > '...quills almost disappeared when steel nibs were perfected..'
            > The book later goes onto speak toward the steel pen nibs of the
            1840s
            > and an 1849 glass pen and also about the reservoir systms for quill
            > pens (1819, the Penograghic Fountain Pen.)
            >
            > Cheers,
            >
            > Len
            >
            > --- In WarOf1812@y..., petemonahan@a... wrote:
            > > Ted
            > > The short answer is that there were steel pen nibs by 1812, but
            > they were
            > > probably not common.
            > >
            > > I did some research a couple of years ago on steel nibbed pens.
            > They were
            > > patented, or some version was, about 1818 or so, by a clever chap
            > in
            > > Birmingham (?). Or so says the pen collectors club in the U.K.
            > (Sorry, this
            > > is approximate, but I've not got the references in front of me,
            but
            > the
            > > essentials are accurate.) My guess, based on that, was that they
            > must have
            > > been in use before that, especially given that the Romans had
            > bronze nibs by
            > > 300 C.E. Sure enough, I have found two mentions of steel nibs by
            > 1800.
            > > (Again, no exact references, but I might be able to find them.)
            > >
            > > My guess would be that professional clerks -Bureaucrats ! Ugh!
            > Spit twice!
            > > :) - used them. So, army clerks and staff wallahs had them, I'd
            > guess, while
            > > ordinary citizens used the (cheaper) quills, probaly well into
            the
            > 1820's &
            > > '30''s. I hope this helps.
            > >
            > > Peter Monahan, Company Clerk,
            > > Royal Newfoundland Regiment
            > >
            > > petemonahan@a...
            > > 705-435-0953
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • petemonahan@aol.com
            Len Yes, I read (and have) the Shire series pens book and had concluded as you do that steel nibs were post-us, but I ve since seen a reference which says
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 3, 2002
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              Len
              Yes, I read (and have) the Shire series pens book and had concluded as you do
              that steel nibs were post-us, but I've since seen a reference which says
              "earlier, by 1805". The key word in the book may be "perfected". I believe
              the earlist had no slit in the nib - simply a small steel blade, so likely
              very inefficient because only the ink. Anyway, I'll have to dig out my
              reference again. (By the by, I tend to agree with your assessment of the
              broom straw + nib sets, though to be fair the suttlers may have been told
              they were o.k. for 1812.)

              Peter Monahan
              petemonahan@...
              705-435-0953


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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