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Re: Pens and Histories

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  • lenthecooper
    I believe that if you dig out your red baton there in New Orleans, you ll find it s a Baton Rouge. Len ... appearance in
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 2, 2002
      I believe that if you dig out your red baton there in New Orleans,
      you'll find it's a Baton Rouge.
      Len

      --- In WarOf1812@y..., BritcomHMP@a... wrote:

      > However if you insist I could always dig the baton out for an
      appearance in
      > the colonies :-).
    • lenthecooper
      Peter, I don t think that this is quite correct. In the past few years I ve seen sutlers attempting to sell steel nibbed pen (often stuck into a piece of broom
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 2, 2002
        Peter,
        I don't think that this is quite correct. In the past few years I've
        seen sutlers attempting to sell steel nibbed pen (often stuck into a
        piece of broom corn as a handle. and feel this is just an attempt to
        sell their items. Mind you if people will sell tricorn caps at 1812
        events why not sell items which are well after our period. OK, OK,
        that's another subject.

        Mell George, "Writing Antiques", Shire Publications LTD, 1996,UK

        Pg 5, Pens and Nibs
        'About 1823 some nibs were cut from horn and tortoiseshell, softened
        and reinforced with chips of diamond, ruby and other gemstones for
        greater durability. Thet made little impact for,in 1832, no less than
        33,668,000 quill pens were in use in Britian, most imported from the
        continent.'...
        '...quills almost disappeared when steel nibs were perfected..'
        The book later goes onto speak toward the steel pen nibs of the 1840s
        and an 1849 glass pen and also about the reservoir systms for quill
        pens (1819, the Penograghic Fountain Pen.)

        Cheers,

        Len

        --- In WarOf1812@y..., petemonahan@a... wrote:
        > Ted
        > The short answer is that there were steel pen nibs by 1812, but
        they were
        > probably not common.
        >
        > I did some research a couple of years ago on steel nibbed pens.
        They were
        > patented, or some version was, about 1818 or so, by a clever chap
        in
        > Birmingham (?). Or so says the pen collectors club in the U.K.
        (Sorry, this
        > is approximate, but I've not got the references in front of me, but
        the
        > essentials are accurate.) My guess, based on that, was that they
        must have
        > been in use before that, especially given that the Romans had
        bronze nibs by
        > 300 C.E. Sure enough, I have found two mentions of steel nibs by
        1800.
        > (Again, no exact references, but I might be able to find them.)
        >
        > My guess would be that professional clerks -Bureaucrats ! Ugh!
        Spit twice!
        > :) - used them. So, army clerks and staff wallahs had them, I'd
        guess, while
        > ordinary citizens used the (cheaper) quills, probaly well into the
        1820's &
        > '30''s. I hope this helps.
        >
        > Peter Monahan, Company Clerk,
        > Royal Newfoundland Regiment
        >
        > petemonahan@a...
        > 705-435-0953
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Raymond Hobbs
        I have a copy of Noah Freer s requisition list for 1813. Freer was Military Secretary in the Canadas. Kevin is right - no metal nibs, just quills, hundreds
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 2, 2002
          I have a copy of Noah Freer's requisition list for 1813. Freer was
          Military Secretary in the Canadas. Kevin is right - no metal nibs, just
          quills, hundreds of them.
          Ray Hobbs
          41st Regt. of Foot

          Kevin Windsor wrote:

          > This was covered before. metal nibs were out, but someone posted (I
          > think king Larry)Napoleon's baggage list and no sign of metal nibs, so
          > if the "ruler of the free
          > world" didn't have them then no did. Especially lowly subalterns and
          > surgeons like us!
          > Lt Kevin
          > 89th
          >
          > "Ted Y." wrote:
          >
          > > This may have been covered in another thread some time
          > > ago, but were the wooden, metal tipped pens in use by
          > > the time of the war, or were they still using goose
          > > quills?
          > >
          > > Also, what's the best overall general history of the
          > > war?
          > >
          >
          >
          > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
          > of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
          > THOUSANDS of square miles...
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ted Y.
          ... Yes, That is another subject. I was just commenting to someone that 1812 reenacting reminded me in many ways of Rev. War in the late 60 s, about a decade
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 2, 2002
            > In the
            > past few years I've
            > seen sutlers attempting to sell steel nibbed pen
            > (often stuck into a
            > piece of broom corn as a handle. and feel this is
            > just an attempt to
            > sell their items. Mind you if people will sell
            > tricorn caps at 1812
            > events why not sell items which are well after our
            > period. OK, OK,
            > that's another subject.

            Yes, That is another subject. I was just commenting to
            someone that 1812 reenacting reminded me in many ways
            of Rev. War in the late 60's, about a decade before
            the bicentennial. Many people were using leftover gear
            and weaponry from the Civil War centennial, some of
            which was Spanish-American War surplus off
            Bannermann's Island. Only a few people weree turning
            out material for the Rev. War era and they weren't
            even making the correct muskets in a mass produced
            manner. Most of the flintlocks were either custom
            Besses or Belgian trade flintlocks, including some
            "Long Tom" guns that were taller than the folks
            carrying them. It seems like there's more that will go
            for 1812, but it's sometimes hard to tell what's
            correct if you are new to this. What are some good
            sutlers that offer period wares? I know that some seem
            to be catering to multi-period, meaning you could end
            up with something 1830's or 40's if you don't know.
            Some of the earlier material from the 18th century
            should work, but a number of things were on the way
            out
            by then, if not long gone, like the tricorns.

            Another point in question, what items do you think
            need to be reproduced that no one is making? For
            example; nobody thought to make a 3 band musket until
            AFTER the Civil War centennial ended. For Rev. War a
            mass produced 1st model Bess is still on the drawing
            board, but due perhaps next year, if India and
            Pakistan don't nuke each other. Palmetto Arms IS
            importing a North & Cheney pistol M1799, however.

            Y.H. & O.S.

            Ted Yeatman
            1st MD Rifle BN
            Fell's Point Rifles


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          • colsjtjones2000
            Heavens forbid that I would ever want to get involved in a dialogue re metal nibs again! Doug ... I ve ... a ... to ... softened ... than ... the ... 1840s
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 3, 2002
              Heavens forbid that I would ever want to get involved in a dialogue
              re metal nibs again! Doug



              --- In WarOf1812@y..., "lenthecooper" <lheidebrecht@L...> wrote:
              > Peter,
              > I don't think that this is quite correct. In the past few years
              I've
              > seen sutlers attempting to sell steel nibbed pen (often stuck into
              a
              > piece of broom corn as a handle. and feel this is just an attempt
              to
              > sell their items. Mind you if people will sell tricorn caps at 1812
              > events why not sell items which are well after our period. OK, OK,
              > that's another subject.
              >
              > Mell George, "Writing Antiques", Shire Publications LTD, 1996,UK
              >
              > Pg 5, Pens and Nibs
              > 'About 1823 some nibs were cut from horn and tortoiseshell,
              softened
              > and reinforced with chips of diamond, ruby and other gemstones for
              > greater durability. Thet made little impact for,in 1832, no less
              than
              > 33,668,000 quill pens were in use in Britian, most imported from
              the
              > continent.'...
              > '...quills almost disappeared when steel nibs were perfected..'
              > The book later goes onto speak toward the steel pen nibs of the
              1840s
              > and an 1849 glass pen and also about the reservoir systms for quill
              > pens (1819, the Penograghic Fountain Pen.)
              >
              > Cheers,
              >
              > Len
              >
              > --- In WarOf1812@y..., petemonahan@a... wrote:
              > > Ted
              > > The short answer is that there were steel pen nibs by 1812, but
              > they were
              > > probably not common.
              > >
              > > I did some research a couple of years ago on steel nibbed pens.
              > They were
              > > patented, or some version was, about 1818 or so, by a clever chap
              > in
              > > Birmingham (?). Or so says the pen collectors club in the U.K.
              > (Sorry, this
              > > is approximate, but I've not got the references in front of me,
              but
              > the
              > > essentials are accurate.) My guess, based on that, was that they
              > must have
              > > been in use before that, especially given that the Romans had
              > bronze nibs by
              > > 300 C.E. Sure enough, I have found two mentions of steel nibs by
              > 1800.
              > > (Again, no exact references, but I might be able to find them.)
              > >
              > > My guess would be that professional clerks -Bureaucrats ! Ugh!
              > Spit twice!
              > > :) - used them. So, army clerks and staff wallahs had them, I'd
              > guess, while
              > > ordinary citizens used the (cheaper) quills, probaly well into
              the
              > 1820's &
              > > '30''s. I hope this helps.
              > >
              > > Peter Monahan, Company Clerk,
              > > Royal Newfoundland Regiment
              > >
              > > petemonahan@a...
              > > 705-435-0953
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • petemonahan@aol.com
              Len Yes, I read (and have) the Shire series pens book and had concluded as you do that steel nibs were post-us, but I ve since seen a reference which says
              Message 6 of 17 , Jun 3, 2002
                Len
                Yes, I read (and have) the Shire series pens book and had concluded as you do
                that steel nibs were post-us, but I've since seen a reference which says
                "earlier, by 1805". The key word in the book may be "perfected". I believe
                the earlist had no slit in the nib - simply a small steel blade, so likely
                very inefficient because only the ink. Anyway, I'll have to dig out my
                reference again. (By the by, I tend to agree with your assessment of the
                broom straw + nib sets, though to be fair the suttlers may have been told
                they were o.k. for 1812.)

                Peter Monahan
                petemonahan@...
                705-435-0953


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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