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Redcoat Greencoat whitecoat

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  • R Feltoe
    Larry Yes you are generally correct for the outline on the coat for the Lincoln militia, but the subject is rather more complicated than that. As far as I can
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 5, 2001
      Larry
      Yes you are generally correct for the outline on the coat for the Lincoln
      militia, but the subject is rather more complicated than that. As far as I
      can tell, the general rule of thumb for the various militias in Upper Canada
      during the war is as follows:

      The Embodied Militias of the various counties began the war outfitted in a
      mixture of civilian clothing, Rev war surplus accoutrements , and in the
      case of some of the force at Detroit in hand me down redcoats.

      The Flank companies of the Embodied Militias were given priority in
      receiving supplies in the latter part of the year (1812), but in the case of
      jackets there was a deficiency of both ready made coats and cloth from which
      to make replacements. In Dec 1812 Noah Freer of the Military Secretaries
      Office was ordered to purchase materials for the upcoming season. This was
      to include:

      2000 Jackets, well lined with Kersey flannel or strong linen
      2000 pairs of gunmouth trousers
      2000 Hats or caps with brass plates
      2000 pairs of shoes of leather or beefskin soled
      2000 knapsacks
      2000 haversacks
      2000 canteens and straps

      "...aware of the difficulty in procuring cloth of any particular colour...
      use your discretion in the selection of the cloth best adopted for service,
      keeping in view of the comfort of the men and giving scarlet the preference
      for the jackets..."

      By Jan 1, 1813 Prevost wrote to Shaeffe:
      "... Major Freer will have made known to you the preparations which (we) are
      making for the comfortable clothing of your militia. I regret that the
      total want of scarlet cloth has compelled me to consent to green being made
      use of for the purpose..."

      On Jan 2, 1813, The Military Secretaries Office in Quebec issued the
      following regulation in a letter to Shaeffe

      Dress for the Upper Canada Militia.
      Green Jackets, Red cuff and collar, white lace, Blue gunmouth trousers, Felt
      regulation cap
      "... and it will be satisfactory to you to be informed that measures have
      been adopted for complying with that requisition and there is reason to
      believe that the several articles will be in readiness to be forwarded to
      you at the opening of the navigation in the spring..."

      at almost the same time (Feb 1813), men of the 2nd Norfolk Militia (Captain
      Rapelje's Coy) are recorded as being supplied with redcoats.

      With the establishment of the Incorporated Militia in March 1813, priority
      for supplies went to that unit instead of the Flankers but the green jackets
      etc. were certainly issued to the Embodied militias and worn during the 1813
      Niagara campaign. There was also a requisition for Artillery coats and
      Gunner drivers jackets put in, but this was turned down due to costs. One
      interesting sidebar of this requisition states "...100 pairs of Pantaloons,
      Grey, Blue, or Olive, but all of one colour..." which indicates that there
      was a determination to achieve a uniformity of appearance.

      In July 1813, the Incorporated Militia was requisitioning for the following:
      Regulation Caps and plumes
      Red coats with dark green facings
      Grey trousers
      Forage caps
      Waistcoats with sleeves (Barracks Jacket)
      etc.

      Most of the Embodied Militias obviously got some additional uniforms
      (probably the green ones mentioned above) in Sept 1813 as the following
      shows.
      "... with respect to the expenses of fitting the clothing which has been
      supplied to the Embodied Militia, the Commander of the forces is pleased to
      authorize that 2/6 currency be allowed for the alteration of each suit and
      the sum to be drawn from the extraordinarys of the army by a General account
      for the different battalions..."

      They also lost some of these when the British abandoned the Niagara in
      October and abandoned some of their stores.
      Lost at St Davids: 6 Militia Jackets, 12 pairs of cloth trousers (cloth
      means wool), 12 pairs cotton trousers, (the specification of Militia Jackets
      seems to indicate they were the green coats, otherwise if they were redcoats
      they would have been identified under their regimental connection)

      by November 1813, there was evidently enough green coats already issued as
      the militia stores in Kingston recorded having 230 Green cloth jackets in
      stores and 6 flannel jackets (barracks jackets). This number had not
      changed by Feb 1814 and still stood at 230 and 6 respectively.

      As indication that the Embodied militias definitely had at least part of
      their official uniform by the end of 1813 can be seen from the fact that on
      Feb 6 a militia quartermasters indent at York refers to 12 pairs of worn and
      damaged blue trousers.

      In the spring of 1814, increased supplies of regulation uniforms allowed the
      Incorporated Militia to get new redcoat uniforms in May as well as a stock
      of used uniforms from the 103rd Rgt. These latter items were then probably
      issued to the new draft of men from the Embodied Militias that were attached
      to the IMUC for a three month training period and then used for the next
      batch.

      On May 21, 1814, an official requisition for articles to be sent from
      Montreal for the use of Militia in Upper Canada included:

      40 Sergeants coats / 100 Privates coats
      "...The coats to be given green and yellow facings, an equal number of
      each..."
      which indicates that these recoat uniforms were to be split between the IMUC
      (green) and Embodied militias (yellow) , thus indicating a new facing colour
      was being used for the EM's

      By June these items reached Kingston and Lt Col Nichols, Quartermaster
      General of Militia wrote to Lt Col Robinson, CO of the IMUC
      "...one thousand suits of clothing complete have at last been received at
      this post and it is intended to send forward without delay a sufficient
      quantity to equip your battalion completely..."

      Unfortunately, the regulations for the facings of the IMUC had now been
      changed as seen in the follow on
      "...the clothing is of different facings (i.e. green and yellow) but blue
      cloth is to be purchaced to new the whole, which must be done by the
      regimental tailors..."

      This blue cloth was purchased by Col Nichol in Kingston and forwarded with
      the delivery of the uniforms.

      Therefore by July 1813, at least some of the Incorporated Militia companies
      are seen with new blue facings, they also had blue trousers. Other
      references reveal that they also had the redcoat hand me downs of the 103rd,
      41st and green coats in their lines.

      As to the Embodied Militias as a separate entity, I have not attempted to
      research their supplies in the later part of the war but would surmise that
      they had a relatively uniformed appearance, if not actually uniform in
      colour, using hand me downs and were certainly not the hodge-podge militia
      in civilian gear that we unfortunately see portrayed at many of our
      reenactments. Certainly by the end of the war the IMUC for one was fully
      kitted out with brand new uniforms and accoutrements in the regulation
      uniform. Which may even have included the Belgic shako.

      Hope this helps
      Richard Feltoe
    • Raymond Hobbs
      Excellent posting Richard. It shows what hours and hours of research in the National Archives of Canada (and others) can do for the hobby, and how necessary
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 6, 2001
        Excellent posting Richard. It shows what hours and hours of research in the National Archives of Canada (and others) can do for the hobby, and how necessary such an
        activity is.
        Thanks for sharing this valuable information.
        Yrs etc.
        Ray Hobbs
        41st Regiment of Foot

        R Feltoe wrote:

        > Larry
        > Yes you are generally correct for the outline on the coat for the Lincoln
        > militia, but the subject is rather more complicated than that. As far as I
        > can tell, the general rule of thumb for the various militias in Upper Canada
        > during the war is as follows:
        >
        > The Embodied Militias of the various counties began the war outfitted in a
        > mixture of civilian clothing, Rev war surplus accoutrements , and in the
        > case of some of the force at Detroit in hand me down redcoats.
        >
        > The Flank companies of the Embodied Militias were given priority in
        > receiving supplies in the latter part of the year (1812), but in the case of
        > jackets there was a deficiency of both ready made coats and cloth from which
        > to make replacements. In Dec 1812 Noah Freer of the Military Secretaries
        > Office was ordered to purchase materials for the upcoming season. This was
        > to include:
        >
        > 2000 Jackets, well lined with Kersey flannel or strong linen
        > 2000 pairs of gunmouth trousers
        > 2000 Hats or caps with brass plates
        > 2000 pairs of shoes of leather or beefskin soled
        > 2000 knapsacks
        > 2000 haversacks
        > 2000 canteens and straps
        >
        > "...aware of the difficulty in procuring cloth of any particular colour...
        > use your discretion in the selection of the cloth best adopted for service,
        > keeping in view of the comfort of the men and giving scarlet the preference
        > for the jackets..."
        >
        > By Jan 1, 1813 Prevost wrote to Shaeffe:
        > "... Major Freer will have made known to you the preparations which (we) are
        > making for the comfortable clothing of your militia. I regret that the
        > total want of scarlet cloth has compelled me to consent to green being made
        > use of for the purpose..."
        >
        > On Jan 2, 1813, The Military Secretaries Office in Quebec issued the
        > following regulation in a letter to Shaeffe
        >
        > Dress for the Upper Canada Militia.
        > Green Jackets, Red cuff and collar, white lace, Blue gunmouth trousers, Felt
        > regulation cap
        > "... and it will be satisfactory to you to be informed that measures have
        > been adopted for complying with that requisition and there is reason to
        > believe that the several articles will be in readiness to be forwarded to
        > you at the opening of the navigation in the spring..."
        >
        > at almost the same time (Feb 1813), men of the 2nd Norfolk Militia (Captain
        > Rapelje's Coy) are recorded as being supplied with redcoats.
        >
        > With the establishment of the Incorporated Militia in March 1813, priority
        > for supplies went to that unit instead of the Flankers but the green jackets
        > etc. were certainly issued to the Embodied militias and worn during the 1813
        > Niagara campaign. There was also a requisition for Artillery coats and
        > Gunner drivers jackets put in, but this was turned down due to costs. One
        > interesting sidebar of this requisition states "...100 pairs of Pantaloons,
        > Grey, Blue, or Olive, but all of one colour..." which indicates that there
        > was a determination to achieve a uniformity of appearance.
        >
        > In July 1813, the Incorporated Militia was requisitioning for the following:
        > Regulation Caps and plumes
        > Red coats with dark green facings
        > Grey trousers
        > Forage caps
        > Waistcoats with sleeves (Barracks Jacket)
        > etc.
        >
        > Most of the Embodied Militias obviously got some additional uniforms
        > (probably the green ones mentioned above) in Sept 1813 as the following
        > shows.
        > "... with respect to the expenses of fitting the clothing which has been
        > supplied to the Embodied Militia, the Commander of the forces is pleased to
        > authorize that 2/6 currency be allowed for the alteration of each suit and
        > the sum to be drawn from the extraordinarys of the army by a General account
        > for the different battalions..."
        >
        > They also lost some of these when the British abandoned the Niagara in
        > October and abandoned some of their stores.
        > Lost at St Davids: 6 Militia Jackets, 12 pairs of cloth trousers (cloth
        > means wool), 12 pairs cotton trousers, (the specification of Militia Jackets
        > seems to indicate they were the green coats, otherwise if they were redcoats
        > they would have been identified under their regimental connection)
        >
        > by November 1813, there was evidently enough green coats already issued as
        > the militia stores in Kingston recorded having 230 Green cloth jackets in
        > stores and 6 flannel jackets (barracks jackets). This number had not
        > changed by Feb 1814 and still stood at 230 and 6 respectively.
        >
        > As indication that the Embodied militias definitely had at least part of
        > their official uniform by the end of 1813 can be seen from the fact that on
        > Feb 6 a militia quartermasters indent at York refers to 12 pairs of worn and
        > damaged blue trousers.
        >
        > In the spring of 1814, increased supplies of regulation uniforms allowed the
        > Incorporated Militia to get new redcoat uniforms in May as well as a stock
        > of used uniforms from the 103rd Rgt. These latter items were then probably
        > issued to the new draft of men from the Embodied Militias that were attached
        > to the IMUC for a three month training period and then used for the next
        > batch.
        >
        > On May 21, 1814, an official requisition for articles to be sent from
        > Montreal for the use of Militia in Upper Canada included:
        >
        > 40 Sergeants coats / 100 Privates coats
        > "...The coats to be given green and yellow facings, an equal number of
        > each..."
        > which indicates that these recoat uniforms were to be split between the IMUC
        > (green) and Embodied militias (yellow) , thus indicating a new facing colour
        > was being used for the EM's
        >
        > By June these items reached Kingston and Lt Col Nichols, Quartermaster
        > General of Militia wrote to Lt Col Robinson, CO of the IMUC
        > "...one thousand suits of clothing complete have at last been received at
        > this post and it is intended to send forward without delay a sufficient
        > quantity to equip your battalion completely..."
        >
        > Unfortunately, the regulations for the facings of the IMUC had now been
        > changed as seen in the follow on
        > "...the clothing is of different facings (i.e. green and yellow) but blue
        > cloth is to be purchaced to new the whole, which must be done by the
        > regimental tailors..."
        >
        > This blue cloth was purchased by Col Nichol in Kingston and forwarded with
        > the delivery of the uniforms.
        >
        > Therefore by July 1813, at least some of the Incorporated Militia companies
        > are seen with new blue facings, they also had blue trousers. Other
        > references reveal that they also had the redcoat hand me downs of the 103rd,
        > 41st and green coats in their lines.
        >
        > As to the Embodied Militias as a separate entity, I have not attempted to
        > research their supplies in the later part of the war but would surmise that
        > they had a relatively uniformed appearance, if not actually uniform in
        > colour, using hand me downs and were certainly not the hodge-podge militia
        > in civilian gear that we unfortunately see portrayed at many of our
        > reenactments. Certainly by the end of the war the IMUC for one was fully
        > kitted out with brand new uniforms and accoutrements in the regulation
        > uniform. Which may even have included the Belgic shako.
        >
        > Hope this helps
        > Richard Feltoe
        >
        >
        > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • cl_1873
        Richard, I agree; good posting. Just wondering what you think. I am reforming the Lincoln Militia (1rst Regiment), and we are a flank company. I am the captain
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 6, 2001
          Richard, I agree; good posting. Just wondering what you think. I am
          reforming the Lincoln Militia (1rst Regiment), and we are a flank
          company. I am the captain BTW. I am telling my guys that our look
          should be a mix of civilian wear with military accoutrements, and
          some military jackets also. Our aim is to try and appear as the
          Lincoln Militia in the fall of 1812 or so.

          Further, for those that go with regimental jackets, I am telling them
          to get Redcoats with Yellow facings. Does that combination seem
          plausible to you? I am saying this because 1). the display coat at
          Fort George of the Lincoln Militia is Red with Yellow, and 2. From
          what I've read, you're right. Supplies were tough to get, but the
          first appearances of wool for regimental coats appears to have been
          scarlet and yellow wool. Hence, my natural deduction that they wore
          red with yellow facings. Does that sound reasonable to you?

          Calvin.
          Captain. Lincoln Militia, 1rst Reg't.
          St. Catharines, ON

          --- In WarOf1812@y..., "R Feltoe" <feltoe@r...> wrote:
          > Larry
          > Yes you are generally correct for the outline on the coat for the
          Lincoln
          > militia, but the subject is rather more complicated than that. As
          far as I
          > can tell, the general rule of thumb for the various militias in
          Upper Canada
          > during the war is as follows:
          >
          > The Embodied Militias of the various counties began the war
          outfitted in a
          > mixture of civilian clothing, Rev war surplus accoutrements , and
          in the
          > case of some of the force at Detroit in hand me down redcoats.
          >
          > The Flank companies of the Embodied Militias were given priority in
          > receiving supplies in the latter part of the year (1812), but in
          the case of
          > jackets there was a deficiency of both ready made coats and cloth
          from which
          > to make replacements. In Dec 1812 Noah Freer of the Military
          Secretaries
          > Office was ordered to purchase materials for the upcoming season.
          This was
          > to include:
          >
          > 2000 Jackets, well lined with Kersey flannel or strong linen
          > 2000 pairs of gunmouth trousers
          > 2000 Hats or caps with brass plates
          > 2000 pairs of shoes of leather or beefskin soled
          > 2000 knapsacks
          > 2000 haversacks
          > 2000 canteens and straps
          >
          > "...aware of the difficulty in procuring cloth of any particular
          colour...
          > use your discretion in the selection of the cloth best adopted for
          service,
          > keeping in view of the comfort of the men and giving scarlet the
          preference
          > for the jackets..."
          >
          > By Jan 1, 1813 Prevost wrote to Shaeffe:
          > "... Major Freer will have made known to you the preparations which
          (we) are
          > making for the comfortable clothing of your militia. I regret that
          the
          > total want of scarlet cloth has compelled me to consent to green
          being made
          > use of for the purpose..."
          >
          > On Jan 2, 1813, The Military Secretaries Office in Quebec issued the
          > following regulation in a letter to Shaeffe
          >
          > Dress for the Upper Canada Militia.
          > Green Jackets, Red cuff and collar, white lace, Blue gunmouth
          trousers, Felt
          > regulation cap
          > "... and it will be satisfactory to you to be informed that
          measures have
          > been adopted for complying with that requisition and there is
          reason to
          > believe that the several articles will be in readiness to be
          forwarded to
          > you at the opening of the navigation in the spring..."
          >
          > at almost the same time (Feb 1813), men of the 2nd Norfolk Militia
          (Captain
          > Rapelje's Coy) are recorded as being supplied with redcoats.
          >
          > With the establishment of the Incorporated Militia in March 1813,
          priority
          > for supplies went to that unit instead of the Flankers but the
          green jackets
          > etc. were certainly issued to the Embodied militias and worn during
          the 1813
          > Niagara campaign. There was also a requisition for Artillery coats
          and
          > Gunner drivers jackets put in, but this was turned down due to
          costs. One
          > interesting sidebar of this requisition states "...100 pairs of
          Pantaloons,
          > Grey, Blue, or Olive, but all of one colour..." which indicates
          that there
          > was a determination to achieve a uniformity of appearance.
          >
          > In July 1813, the Incorporated Militia was requisitioning for the
          following:
          > Regulation Caps and plumes
          > Red coats with dark green facings
          > Grey trousers
          > Forage caps
          > Waistcoats with sleeves (Barracks Jacket)
          > etc.
          >
          > Most of the Embodied Militias obviously got some additional uniforms
          > (probably the green ones mentioned above) in Sept 1813 as the
          following
          > shows.
          > "... with respect to the expenses of fitting the clothing which has
          been
          > supplied to the Embodied Militia, the Commander of the forces is
          pleased to
          > authorize that 2/6 currency be allowed for the alteration of each
          suit and
          > the sum to be drawn from the extraordinarys of the army by a
          General account
          > for the different battalions..."
          >
          > They also lost some of these when the British abandoned the Niagara
          in
          > October and abandoned some of their stores.
          > Lost at St Davids: 6 Militia Jackets, 12 pairs of cloth trousers
          (cloth
          > means wool), 12 pairs cotton trousers, (the specification of
          Militia Jackets
          > seems to indicate they were the green coats, otherwise if they were
          redcoats
          > they would have been identified under their regimental connection)
          >
          > by November 1813, there was evidently enough green coats already
          issued as
          > the militia stores in Kingston recorded having 230 Green cloth
          jackets in
          > stores and 6 flannel jackets (barracks jackets). This number had
          not
          > changed by Feb 1814 and still stood at 230 and 6 respectively.
          >
          > As indication that the Embodied militias definitely had at least
          part of
          > their official uniform by the end of 1813 can be seen from the fact
          that on
          > Feb 6 a militia quartermasters indent at York refers to 12 pairs of
          worn and
          > damaged blue trousers.
          >
          > In the spring of 1814, increased supplies of regulation uniforms
          allowed the
          > Incorporated Militia to get new redcoat uniforms in May as well as
          a stock
          > of used uniforms from the 103rd Rgt. These latter items were then
          probably
          > issued to the new draft of men from the Embodied Militias that were
          attached
          > to the IMUC for a three month training period and then used for the
          next
          > batch.
          >
          > On May 21, 1814, an official requisition for articles to be sent
          from
          > Montreal for the use of Militia in Upper Canada included:
          >
          > 40 Sergeants coats / 100 Privates coats
          > "...The coats to be given green and yellow facings, an equal number
          of
          > each..."
          > which indicates that these recoat uniforms were to be split between
          the IMUC
          > (green) and Embodied militias (yellow) , thus indicating a new
          facing colour
          > was being used for the EM's
          >
          > By June these items reached Kingston and Lt Col Nichols,
          Quartermaster
          > General of Militia wrote to Lt Col Robinson, CO of the IMUC
          > "...one thousand suits of clothing complete have at last been
          received at
          > this post and it is intended to send forward without delay a
          sufficient
          > quantity to equip your battalion completely..."
          >
          > Unfortunately, the regulations for the facings of the IMUC had now
          been
          > changed as seen in the follow on
          > "...the clothing is of different facings (i.e. green and yellow)
          but blue
          > cloth is to be purchaced to new the whole, which must be done by the
          > regimental tailors..."
          >
          > This blue cloth was purchased by Col Nichol in Kingston and
          forwarded with
          > the delivery of the uniforms.
          >
          > Therefore by July 1813, at least some of the Incorporated Militia
          companies
          > are seen with new blue facings, they also had blue trousers. Other
          > references reveal that they also had the redcoat hand me downs of
          the 103rd,
          > 41st and green coats in their lines.
          >
          > As to the Embodied Militias as a separate entity, I have not
          attempted to
          > research their supplies in the later part of the war but would
          surmise that
          > they had a relatively uniformed appearance, if not actually uniform
          in
          > colour, using hand me downs and were certainly not the hodge-podge
          militia
          > in civilian gear that we unfortunately see portrayed at many of our
          > reenactments. Certainly by the end of the war the IMUC for one was
          fully
          > kitted out with brand new uniforms and accoutrements in the
          regulation
          > uniform. Which may even have included the Belgic shako.
          >
          > Hope this helps
          > Richard Feltoe
        • R Feltoe
          Calvin, Sorry to say I can t go with that combination (civilian outfits and red faced yellow uniforms). Civilian and green faced red or green faced red and
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 6, 2001
            Calvin,
            Sorry to say I can't go with that combination (civilian outfits and red
            faced yellow uniforms). Civilian and green faced red or green faced red and
            red faced yellow, yes. But I applaud your attempt to introduce uniforms
            from the start.

            In that vein if you are wanting tips on making them properly, Karen Posner
            and I have just agreed to do a session at the conference in March which we
            are calling "Redcoat 101" and is geared to those wanting to make redcoats or
            adapt what they have to be more in line with the information derived from
            our studies of original coats.

            If you're going to be at Hamilton on the weekend, perhaps we could have a
            chat I would be happy to bring down our photo albums of original pieces and
            other material for study.
            Regards Richard.
          • Larry Lozon
            From: R Feltoe ... and ... ....................... Richard, a question. The 1st Regiment Kent Militia was made up of the inhabitants of
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 6, 2001
              From: "R Feltoe" <feltoe@...>


              > Sorry to say I can't go with that combination (civilian outfits and red
              > faced yellow uniforms). Civilian and green faced red or green faced red
              and
              > red faced yellow, yes.
              .......................

              Richard, a question.

              The 1st Regiment Kent Militia was made up of the inhabitants of
              Kent County
              Ontario Canada and fought with the Essex Militia and the troops of Fort
              Amherstburg
              during the attack and capture of Fort Detroit. Brock thinking the Americans
              would be
              easier to capture if they thought the attackers were British Regulars they
              issued the militia
              cast off regular coats of the 41st. Regt. Could this have happened with the
              militia that Calvin
              is recreating? The coat he described is that of the Canadian Fencibles and I
              believe fought
              with the militia.

              Interesting note, when the Kent Militia went home and mustered for their
              pay, they were
              charged the price of new coats from the army even though they were issued
              worn out coats,
              tradition tells us that there was a riot by the Kent Militia over this.
            • R Feltoe
              Larry, You asked ...Brock thinking the Americans would be easier to capture if they thought the attackers were British Regulars they issued the militia cast
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 6, 2001
                Larry,
                You asked "...Brock thinking the Americans would be easier to capture if
                they thought the attackers were British Regulars they issued the militia
                cast off regular coats of the 41st. Regt. Could this have happened with the
                militia that Calvin is recreating? The coat he described is that of the
                Canadian Fencibles and I believe fought with the militia..."

                My judgement tends, I say again TENDS, towards the negative on this
                question. Brock was a dynamic commander and used this ruse for a specific
                military objective. Then he was killed at Queenston Heights and his
                successor was a very different kettle of fish. Shaeffe was cautious to the
                point of immobility and soon lost the confidence of both the military and
                civilian population in Upper Canada. His fussiness over pedantic details
                would, (in my opinion) have meant that he would not have tolerated such an
                untidy activity.

                In addition, the red coat faced in yellow is not the Fencible coat, that is
                an entirely different set of regimental issue and considering the trouble
                they had getting their uniforms, I don't think they would have looked kindly
                at anyone else appropriating "their" uniforms. The red faced yellow (with
                plain white lace) was an issue specifically for the militias in 1814.
                Besides, my real cause for unease lay in the fact that blending civilian
                with red/green combines the beginning of the war and the end. My
                recommendation was to go for a combination early / mid war or mid / late
                war appearance.

                Regards
                Richard Feltoe

                P.S. Please correct a typo in my original outline on this topic where I had
                the IMUC in blue faced uniforms in 1813 it should, of course have been 1814.
                My thanks to Doug for spotting the error and bringing it to my attention.
              • Peter Catley
                Subject: [WarOf1812] Redcoat Greencoat whitecoat From: R Feltoe ... and ... ....................... Richard, a question. The 1st Regiment
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 7, 2001
                  Subject: [WarOf1812] Redcoat Greencoat whitecoat

                  From: "R Feltoe" <feltoe@...>


                  > Sorry to say I can't go with that combination (civilian outfits and red
                  > faced yellow uniforms). Civilian and green faced red or green faced red
                  and
                  > red faced yellow, yes.
                  .......................

                  Richard, a question.

                  The 1st Regiment Kent Militia was made up of the inhabitants of
                  Kent County
                  Ontario Canada and fought with the Essex Militia and the troops of Fort
                  Amherstburg
                  during the attack and capture of Fort Detroit. Brock thinking the Americans
                  would be
                  easier to capture if they thought the attackers were British Regulars they
                  issued the militia
                  cast off regular coats of the 41st. Regt. Could this have happened with the
                  militia that Calvin
                  is recreating? The coat he described is that of the Canadian Fencibles and I
                  believe fought
                  with the militia.

                  Interesting note, when the Kent Militia went home and mustered for their
                  pay, they were
                  charged the price of new coats from the army even though they were issued
                  worn out coats,
                  tradition tells us that there was a riot by the Kent Militia over this.
                  When the Kent and Essex militia meet in England for a cricket match a
                  soldier was killed in a row and a riot ensued, some things don't change!!
                  Cheers

                  P**
                • cl_1873
                  Richard, I didn t mean yellow as the main colour. I said red was the main colour with yellow facings. I think there is some historical evidence to suggest this
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 7, 2001
                    Richard, I didn't mean yellow as the main colour. I said red was the
                    main colour with yellow facings. I think there is some historical
                    evidence to suggest this was plausible.

                    Yes, I will be at Hamilton, in my RevWar Butler's Rangers uniform.
                    Introduce yourself. I will have a bicorn on, green coat with red
                    facings, and breeches.

                    Calvin.

                    --- In WarOf1812@y..., "R Feltoe" <feltoe@r...> wrote:
                    > Calvin,
                    > Sorry to say I can't go with that combination (civilian outfits and
                    red
                    > faced yellow uniforms). Civilian and green faced red or green
                    faced red and
                    > red faced yellow, yes. But I applaud your attempt to introduce
                    uniforms
                    > from the start.
                    >
                    > In that vein if you are wanting tips on making them properly, Karen
                    Posner
                    > and I have just agreed to do a session at the conference in March
                    which we
                    > are calling "Redcoat 101" and is geared to those wanting to make
                    redcoats or
                    > adapt what they have to be more in line with the information
                    derived from
                    > our studies of original coats.
                    >
                    > If you're going to be at Hamilton on the weekend, perhaps we could
                    have a
                    > chat I would be happy to bring down our photo albums of original
                    pieces and
                    > other material for study.
                    > Regards Richard.
                  • R Feltoe
                    Calvin, Same thing said, different readings. Red faced yellow is what I said (which is the way the original documents phrase it) and it comes out as... red
                    Message 9 of 9 , Dec 7, 2001
                      Calvin,
                      Same thing said, different readings. "Red faced yellow" is what I said
                      (which is the way the original documents phrase it) and it comes out as...
                      red coat, faced with yellow. In the same vein, my "green faced red" means
                      green coat, faced with red. Sorry if my use of the original phrasing caused
                      any confusion, I'm just so used to it I failed to see that it could be read
                      the other way round.
                      See you tomorrow, I'll be at the Past Reflections trade stand all day.
                      Regards Richard
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