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Fort York

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  • Larry Lozon
    From: ... artifacts. ... I was informed that the Friends and the Management of Fort York have changed the look and presentation to be MORE
    Message 1 of 23 , Jul 9 1:26 PM
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      From: <JGIL1812@...>

      > I happened to ........ stopped by Fort
      > York ........ a fine living
      > history site devoted to the War of 1812.
      > I was greeted by two large tents (not period), an expanded Junior Officer
      > Quarters building (also not period) and a meager display of 1812
      artifacts.
      > .......can somebody explain to me what
      > the "Friends of Fort York" are up to and what happened to the King's
      > Regiment?



      I was informed that the Friends and the Management of Fort York
      have changed the look and presentation to be
      " MORE POLITICALLY CORRECT"
      and to refrain from showing such a violent picture........

      As for the or 8th (King's) Regiment uniforms on their staff.
      They wanted to portray more of a Canadian image so they
      chose the Canadian Fencible Regiment...............

      JG I'm with you what the heck were they thinking?!?
    • Cpl. Wattie
      I think it s far too easy to carp from a distance about changes at Ft. York, most of which I believe come down to the need to raise money to keep the place
      Message 2 of 23 , Jul 10 6:54 AM
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        I think it's far too easy to carp from a distance about changes at Ft. York, most of which I believe come down to the need to raise
        money to keep the place going in this age of much reduced municipal, provincial and federal funding.
        As for the 8th vs. the Fencibles, at least they've got some sort of guard/military presence there now: for a long time the powers
        that be wanted interpreters to wear period civvies to avoid the appearance of nasty militarism at the fort.

        >
        > I was informed that the Friends and the Management of Fort York
        > have changed the look and presentation to be
        > " MORE POLITICALLY CORRECT"
        > and to refrain from showing such a violent picture........
        >
        > As for the or 8th (King's) Regiment uniforms on their staff.
        > They wanted to portray more of a Canadian image so they
        > chose the Canadian Fencible Regiment...............
        >
        > JG I'm with you what the heck were they thinking?!?
      • Larry Lozon
        From: Cpl. Wattie I think it s far too easy to carp from a distance about changes at Ft. York, most of which I believe come down
        Message 3 of 23 , Jul 10 7:13 AM
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          From: "Cpl. Wattie" <cwattie@...>



          I think it's far too easy to carp from a distance about changes at Ft. York,
          most of which I believe come down to the need to raise money to keep
          the place going .............

          .........

          Once again, I am not trying to provoke
          a verbal fight about Fort York, but only
          searching for information from our
          learned folk in the know.

          I don't think the statement

          " .... the need to raise money to keep
          the place going ....."

          actually answers the question raised,
          as in my humble opinion, I believe the
          question stemmed around why the fort
          has been spending said monies in a
          questionable manner.

          The question was, I believe raised by the noble Engineer,
          about why they redecorated a room in a modern fashion,
          why they were using modern tents,
          and why they spent money on new uniforms.

          My reply post, was to parrot what I had heard,
          that being, that the fort was trying to be more
          Politically Correct.

          As for Carping from a distance, that distance
          is only 45 minutes .

          Without prejudice and malice,
          YMH&OS,
        • Cpl. Wattie
          Others more knowledgeable about Ft. York s situation may have better information, but from what I ve been told it s fairly simple: to generate revenue for the
          Message 4 of 23 , Jul 10 8:35 AM
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            Others more knowledgeable about Ft. York's situation may have better information, but from what I've been told it's fairly simple:
            to generate revenue for the fort, they are using it as a venue for events such as wedding receptions, festivals of one kind or
            another, dinners, etc.
            To do this, they need facilities such as the new Jr. Officer's quarters, non-period tents, etc. It is all well and good to tut-tut about
            such ahistorical elements on the site, but it seems to me that the fort is doing this to help keep the historical aspects in good
            repair and perhaps to aid in such projects as the planned renovation of the surrounding area (including buying the land to the
            west of the fort now being used as a tree nursery).
            And in passing, I believe the exterior of the Jr. Officers Quarters building is historically accurate (although I confess I'm not sure
            about the dates at which it appeared as it is now).
            The reference to distance was, as I'm sure you realize, metaphorical.


            > Once again, I am not trying to provoke
            > a verbal fight about Fort York, but only
            > searching for information from our
            > learned folk in the know.
            >
            > I don't think the statement
            >
            > " .... the need to raise money to keep
            > the place going ....."
            >
            > actually answers the question raised,
            > as in my humble opinion, I believe the
            > question stemmed around why the fort
            > has been spending said monies in a
            > questionable manner.
            >
            > The question was, I believe raised by the noble Engineer,
            > about why they redecorated a room in a modern fashion,
            > why they were using modern tents,
            > and why they spent money on new uniforms.
            >
            > My reply post, was to parrot what I had heard,
            > that being, that the fort was trying to be more
            > Politically Correct.
            >
            > As for Carping from a distance, that distance
            > is only 45 minutes .
            >
            > Without prejudice and malice,
            > YMH&OS,
          • Larry Lozon
            From: Cpl. Wattie ... to generate revenue for the fort, they are using it as a venue for ... wedding receptions, festivals ...
            Message 5 of 23 , Jul 10 9:03 AM
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              From: "Cpl. Wattie" <cwattie@...>

              ... to generate revenue for the fort, they are using it as a venue
              for ... wedding receptions, festivals ... dinners, etc.
              To do this, they need facilities such as the new Jr. Officer's
              quarters ... It is all well and good to tut-tut about such ahistorical
              elements on the site, but it seems to me that the fort is doing this
              to help keep the historical aspects in good repair ...
              ...the exterior of the Jr. Officers Quarters building is historically
              accurate .....
              The reference to distance was, as I'm sure you realize, metaphorical.

              ...........................

              Again, without malice or prejudice, I ask the question:

              Would remodeling the Jr. Officer's room in a quasi 1812'ish style
              affect the using of this room for weddings, dinners, etc?

              It has been said to me, by one who has been a friend and
              volunteer of the Fort for many years,

              "you walk up to the building expecting to see a room
              such as Fort George's Officers room but instead enter
              the bridge of the Star Ship Enterprise".

              Using a period marquee, In my humble opinion would also not
              take away from one's wedding celebration.

              I wasn't sure what your feference to distance was to be read as.

              YMH&OS,
            • spikeyj@crosslink.net
              ... Part of the problem is: What period? Remember, most of the buildings in the fort are originals. But not originals to the 1812 period. They range in age
              Message 6 of 23 , Jul 10 9:21 AM
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                On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Larry Lozon wrote:

                > From: "Cpl. Wattie" <cwattie@...>
                >
                > ... to generate revenue for the fort, they are using it as a venue
                > for ... wedding receptions, festivals ... dinners, etc.
                > To do this, they need facilities such as the new Jr. Officer's
                > quarters ... It is all well and good to tut-tut about such ahistorical
                > elements on the site, but it seems to me that the fort is doing this
                > to help keep the historical aspects in good repair ...
                > ...the exterior of the Jr. Officers Quarters building is historically
                > accurate .....
                >
                > Again, without malice or prejudice, I ask the question:
                >
                > Would remodeling the Jr. Officer's room in a quasi 1812'ish style
                > affect the using of this room for weddings, dinners, etc?

                Part of the problem is: What period? Remember, most of the buildings
                in the fort are originals. But not originals to the 1812 period. They
                range in age from something like 1819 to the 1830s or '40s
                (Tracey: correct me if I'm wrong). Since the exterior of the
                Jr. Officer's Quarters isn't necessarily authentic 1812, why should
                its interior be?

                > Using a period marquee, In my humble opinion would also not
                > take away from one's wedding celebration.

                I wouldn't be surprised if the tent isn't owned by the fort, but
                rather rented from a catering company. In the early 1980s the fort
                used Chairman Mills almost exclusively for these events (yes, there
                were weddings, charity dinners, etc. in the fort even in the
                lots-of-money-from-the-government early '80s), and
                the caterers provided the tent as well as chairs, etc.

                Spike Y Jones, Fort York Guard, 1980-1983
              • Larry Lozon
                From: ... ..................................................... Spike: Please refer to the word 1812 ish. To be of a historic 1800 s
                Message 7 of 23 , Jul 10 9:36 AM
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                  From: <spikeyj@...>

                  > > Would remodeling the Jr. Officer's room in a quasi 1812'ish style
                  > > affect the using of this room for weddings, dinners, etc?

                  > Since the exterior of the
                  > Jr. Officer's Quarters isn't necessarily authentic 1812, why should
                  > its interior be?
                  .....................................................

                  Spike: Please refer to the word 1812'ish. To be of a historic 1800's
                  style as perhaps the modern English Pubs are of a Victoiran'ish style.

                  It has been communicated to me that since the Fort had seen it's
                  most active use during the War of 1812 ( the Yanks blowed it up!)
                  [ n' blowed it up GOOOOOOOD!]
                  Why not spotlight this fact?
                  On the other hand, if the mixing of design and style does not bother
                  you who has served the fort from 1980-1983, why should I care?

                  ................................................

                  > > Using a period marquee, In my humble opinion would also not
                  > > take away from one's wedding celebration.
                  >
                  > I wouldn't be surprised if the tent isn't owned by the fort, but
                  > rather rented from a catering company.

                  Peter Twist and others rent Period Tents and is a member of the Friends
                  ?!?!?!

                  I rest my case ............*
                • colsjtjones2000@yahoo.ca
                  ... style ... should ... style. ... Friends
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jul 10 5:06 PM
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                    --- In WarOf1812@y..., "Larry Lozon" <lalozon@n...> wrote:
                    > From: <spikeyj@c...>
                    >
                    > > > Would remodeling the Jr. Officer's room in a quasi 1812'ish
                    style
                    > > > affect the using of this room for weddings, dinners, etc?
                    >
                    > > Since the exterior of the
                    > > Jr. Officer's Quarters isn't necessarily authentic 1812, why
                    should
                    > > its interior be?
                    > .....................................................
                    >
                    > Spike: Please refer to the word 1812'ish. To be of a historic 1800's
                    > style as perhaps the modern English Pubs are of a Victoiran'ish
                    style.
                    >
                    > It has been communicated to me that since the Fort had seen it's
                    > most active use during the War of 1812 ( the Yanks blowed it up!)
                    > [ n' blowed it up GOOOOOOOD!]
                    > Why not spotlight this fact?
                    > On the other hand, if the mixing of design and style does not bother
                    > you who has served the fort from 1980-1983, why should I care?
                    >
                    > ................................................
                    >
                    > > > Using a period marquee, In my humble opinion would also not
                    > > > take away from one's wedding celebration.
                    > >
                    > > I wouldn't be surprised if the tent isn't owned by the fort, but
                    > > rather rented from a catering company.
                    >
                    > Peter Twist and others rent Period Tents and is a member of the
                    Friends
                    > ?!?!?!
                    >
                    > I rest my case ............*
                  • spikeyj@crosslink.net
                    ... The retreating Brits blew it up; you *have* to rent Chronicles of 1812. Spike Y Jones
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jul 10 9:09 PM
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                      On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Larry Lozon wrote:

                      > It has been communicated to me that since the Fort had seen it's
                      > most active use during the War of 1812 ( the Yanks blowed it up!)

                      The retreating Brits blew it up; you *have* to rent Chronicles of
                      1812.

                      Spike Y Jones
                    • Craig Williams
                      ... Actually The Brits blowed it up real good before the Yanks took it. The US forces merely burnt down everything public real good . Craig
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jul 11 3:02 PM
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                        >It has been communicated to me that since the Fort had seen it's
                        >most active use during the War of 1812 ( the Yanks blowed it up!)
                        >[ n' blowed it up GOOOOOOOD!]


                        Actually
                        The Brits "blowed it up real good" before the Yanks took it.
                        The US forces merely burnt down everything public "real good".

                        Craig
                      • Craig Williams
                        SPIKE!!! NO! Naughty boy! Remember, we don t encourage the viewing of that...thing. Craig
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jul 11 3:04 PM
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                          SPIKE!!!
                          NO! Naughty boy! Remember, we don't encourage the viewing of that...thing.

                          Craig

                          >The retreating Brits blew it up; you *have* to rent Chronicles of
                          >1812.
                          >
                          >Spike Y Jones
                        • Kevin Windsor
                          Is that the one that was on TV about oooh 20 some years ago about a soldier (cpl I think?) of the 8th (King s) Reg t? I think there was like 4 or so episodes.
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jul 11 8:16 PM
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                            Is that the one that was on TV about oooh 20 some years ago about a soldier (cpl I think?) of the 8th (King's) Reg't? I think there was like 4 or so episodes. If so or
                            not where can I find such an animal. That was what got me hooked into the War of 1812 when I was 10!

                            spikeyj@... wrote:

                            > On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Larry Lozon wrote:
                            >
                            > > It has been communicated to me that since the Fort had seen it's
                            > > most active use during the War of 1812 ( the Yanks blowed it up!)
                            >
                            > The retreating Brits blew it up; you *have* to rent Chronicles of
                            > 1812.
                            >
                            > Spike Y Jones
                            >
                            > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          • glifencible <glifencibles@rogers.com>
                            List Are there any events at Fort York this year other than the Officer s school? (Fort York - Toronto, Onatrio, Canada) Thanks Bill
                            Message 13 of 23 , Feb 26, 2003
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                              List

                              Are there any events at Fort York this year other than the Officer's
                              school?

                              (Fort York - Toronto, Onatrio, Canada)

                              Thanks
                              Bill
                            • Larry Lozon
                              From: Michael Mathews Since it isn t practical for me to attend training at Fort York, this looked like an inexpensive
                              Message 14 of 23 , Feb 9, 2004
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                                From: "Michael Mathews" <ciefranche21e@...>

                                Since it isn't practical for me to attend training at Fort York, this looked
                                like an
                                inexpensive supplement.........
                                ---------------

                                Michael Mon Ami' ~

                                If you want to, but cannot attend the April 17 Crown Officer, NCO School at
                                Fort York, Toronto, Ontario, Canada. I will be more than happy to send you
                                all the handouts and paperwork regarding same as you do wear "RED" on
                                occasion!

                                As for "the 1807 regs" as in your booklets.

                                The Drill explained at the Crown Officer, NCO School and now being used by
                                the Crown Forces is "1811"

                                Mr. Peter Twist has posted to all Crown Forces Commanders,

                                "I found a complete copy of the Regimental Companion for 1811. This
                                included all the General Orders issued up to the end of that year. In
                                reading through this material, I realized that some of the procedures we
                                were following are incorrect. To that end, I spoke with Ken Purvis at Fort
                                York about the possibility of having a weekend of instruction for Officers
                                and NCOs in the early Spring before the first event at Longwoods (London,
                                Ontario). This gives us an opportunity to improve both the authenticity
                                and safety aspects of our portrayal of British and Canadian soldiers during
                                the War of 1812."

                                All Crown Forces Unit Commanders that are listed at

                                http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                                have been sent copies of same and should have forwarded them to their
                                members.

                                Commanders and NCO's who have been attending Crown Officer, NCO School have
                                been asked to return to their units and teach, train and drill their units
                                using the Regimental Companion for 1811.



                                Yh&os

                                Larry Lozon ~ AdC to Mr. Twist
                              • PEGGY Mathews
                                (snip) ... Looks like exclusively from now on... except when it s green. Yes please, copies of materials would be most appreciated. Whether I m doing Capt.
                                Message 15 of 23 , Feb 9, 2004
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                                  (snip)
                                  >
                                  >Michael Mon Ami' ~
                                  >
                                  >If you want to, but cannot attend the April 17 Crown Officer, NCO School at
                                  >Fort York, Toronto, Ontario, Canada. I will be more than happy to send you
                                  >all the handouts and paperwork regarding same as you do wear "RED" on
                                  >occasion!

                                  Looks like exclusively from now on... except when it's green. Yes please,
                                  copies of materials would be most appreciated. Whether I'm doing Capt.
                                  Rolette of the CCV or some nameless private from the de Wattevilles or
                                  Glengarrys, I want to be on the same page as the others.

                                  >As for "the 1807 regs" as in your booklets.
                                  >
                                  >The Drill explained at the Crown Officer, NCO School and now being used by
                                  >the Crown Forces is "1811"
                                  >
                                  (snip)

                                  Yes, I did receive those now that you mention it. The attraction to these
                                  was the idea that they were written with the reenactor in mind. So less
                                  archaic phraseology in the explanations, and more of the gist of the
                                  material. A cursory scan confirms that impression. And hopefully, how much
                                  could be different? Hence, my previous question to the list.

                                  This day in history: Peace of Luneville between Austria and France
                                  (9/2/1801)

                                  Michael

                                  _________________________________________________________________
                                  Get some great ideas here for your sweetheart on Valentine's Day - and
                                  beyond. http://special.msn.com/network/celebrateromance.armx
                                • JGIL1812@aol.com
                                  Hey Larry, Sounds like a great idea for us US bound red coats. If you contact me off line I ll let you know where you can send them and I ll pay the shilling
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Feb 9, 2004
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                                    Hey Larry,

                                    Sounds like a great idea for us US bound red coats. If you contact me off
                                    line I'll let you know where you can send them and I'll pay the shilling at Fort
                                    Meigs when I see you there.

                                    All the best.

                                    John Gilmour
                                    RE


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Larry Lozon
                                    From: Hey Larry .... contact me off line ........ ========= John, I can t, your email will not respond! Tried many times ...... Ya gots
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Feb 9, 2004
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                                      From: <JGIL1812@...>
                                      Hey Larry .... contact me off line ........

                                      =========

                                      John, I can't, your email will not respond!
                                      Tried many times ......

                                      Ya gots me blocked ....... may because of all the
                                      jokes I sent you

                                      check your tools and blocked 'e'-ddresses

                                      Sorry list ............... for the personal post

                                      Larry
                                    • Larry Lozon
                                      Fort York is in Toronto, Ontario, Canada Near the North bank of Lake Ontario Hope this helps Yrs., L. Lozon ... From: Roland Wardle regwardle2 ( at )
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Jan 10, 2008
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                                        Fort York is in Toronto, Ontario, Canada

                                        Near the North bank of Lake Ontario

                                        Hope this helps

                                        Yrs.,
                                        L. Lozon


                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "Roland Wardle" regwardle2 ( at ) netscape.net



                                        I just got a email asking where Fort York is and who ever
                                        this person CC and that person thinks it's in Baltimore USA

                                        Roland
                                      • Ian Gardner
                                        Send him this if he doesn t believe you http://tinyurl.com/ypvonr Tell him, he s thinking of this http://tinyurl.com/23wzko If that
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Jan 10, 2008
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                                          Send him this if he doesn't believe you

                                          http://tinyurl.com/ypvonr <http://tinyurl.com/ypw6pa>

                                          Tell him, he's thinking of this

                                          http://tinyurl.com/23wzko

                                          If that still doesn't work, send 'im on up; we'll re-enact Sheaff's
                                          retreat with him portraying Pike. :-)

                                          HTH
                                          Ian


                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On
                                          Behalf Of Larry Lozon
                                          Sent: January 10, 2008 5:08 PM
                                          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: [War Of 1812] Fort York


                                          Fort York is in Toronto, Ontario, Canada

                                          Near the North bank of Lake Ontario

                                          Hope this helps

                                          Yrs.,
                                          L. Lozon

                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "Roland Wardle" regwardle2 ( at ) netscape.net

                                          I just got a email asking where Fort York is and who ever
                                          this person CC and that person thinks it's in Baltimore USA

                                          Roland



                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Larry Lozon
                                          Ian Mr. Wardle, who is not a subscriber to this Yahoo Group and cannot read your post, did not tell me who sent the email asking where Fort York is Yrs., L2
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Jan 10, 2008
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                                            Ian

                                            Mr. Wardle, who is not a subscriber to this Yahoo Group and
                                            cannot read your post, did not tell me who sent the email asking
                                            where Fort York is

                                            Yrs.,
                                            L2

                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: "Roland Wardle" regwardle2 ( at ) netscape.net

                                            I just got a email asking where Fort York is and who ever
                                            this person CC and that person thinks it's in Baltimore USA

                                            Roland

                                            ----- Original Message -----

                                            --- "Ian Gardner" wrote:

                                            > Send him this if he doesn't believe you
                                            >
                                            > http://tinyurl.com/ypvonr <http://tinyurl.com/ypw6pa>
                                            >
                                            > Tell him, he's thinking of this
                                            >
                                            > http://tinyurl.com/23wzko
                                            >
                                            > If that still doesn't work, send 'im on up; we'll re-enact Sheaff's
                                            > retreat with him portraying Pike. :-)
                                            >
                                            > HTH
                                            > Ian
                                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.