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Re: [WarOf1812] The Letter "J" in the alphabet

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  • BritcomHMP@aol.com
    In a message dated 6/4/2001 3:18:33 PM Central Daylight Time, scottj@carr.org writes:
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 4, 2001
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      In a message dated 6/4/2001 3:18:33 PM Central Daylight Time, scottj@...
      writes:

      << In the mid to late 18th century, the letter "J" was not used in the English
      alphabet. The letter "I" was used for both "I" and "J.">>

      Actually it is in Latin that there is no "J"; in English in anything like its
      modern form "J" is most certainly used

      <<Was the letter "J" in use by our period (ie: the early 19th Century)? >>

      Absolutely. The earliest book in my collection is 1786, this has the usual
      figure that looks like 'f' for a small 'S' but it has both 'i' and 'j'.

      Cheers

      Tim
    • spikeyj@crosslink.net
      ... The letter J/j (as something separate from I/i) was introduced in the 16th century. It took a while for the usage to become standardized (just like so many
      Message 2 of 12 , Jun 4, 2001
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        On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Scott Jeznach wrote:

        > In the mid to late 18th century, the letter "J" was not used in the English
        > alphabet. The letter "I" was used for both "I" and "J."
        >
        > Was the letter "J" in use by our period (ie: the early 19th Century)?

        The letter J/j (as something separate from I/i) was introduced in the
        16th century. It took a while for the usage to become standardized
        (just like so many other elements of spelling during the early
        centuries of printing), so in the 17th and maybe even conceivably
        early 18th century there would still be some confusion.

        By the 1812 time period the usage was pretty much standardized,
        although I'm sure misleading typefaces (that minimize the difference
        between i and j) could give one the impression that they were still
        interchangeable.

        Spike Y Jones
      • HQ93rd@aol.com
        In a message dated 4/06/01 2:06:38 PM, BritcomHMP@aol.com writes:
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 4, 2001
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          In a message dated 4/06/01 2:06:38 PM, BritcomHMP@... writes:

          << In a message dated 6/4/2001 3:18:33 PM Central Daylight Time,
          scottj@...
          writes:

          << In the mid to late 18th century, the letter "J" was not used in the English
          alphabet. The letter "I" was used for both "I" and "J.">>

          Actually it is in Latin that there is no "J"; in English in anything like its
          modern form "J" is most certainly used

          <<Was the letter "J" in use by our period (ie: the early 19th Century)? >>

          Absolutely. The earliest book in my collection is 1786, this has the usual
          figure that looks like 'f' for a small 'S' but it has both 'i' and 'j'.
          >>

          And don't forget that little ol' King James Bible book thingy...

          (And I've never seen any of my ancestors listed as "Iennings"....)


          B
          93rd SHRoFLHU
          THE Thin Red Line
          www.93rdhighlanders.com
        • dancingbobd@webtv.net
          Hi everyone, I own an butcher knife made in Shefield in the period 1800-1840 by John Wilson Co. It is marked I WILSON. He made knives from the 3rd qtr of the
          Message 4 of 12 , Jun 4, 2001
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            Hi everyone,

            I own an butcher knife made in Shefield in the period 1800-1840 by John
            Wilson Co. It is marked I WILSON. He made knives from the 3rd qtr of
            the 18th Cen. well into the 20th Cen. I imagine that he did not want to
            change his "brand" name which was known for high quality. Prior to 1800
            Wilson marked his knives with a touch mark of a pepper corn and a
            diamond. The name was added at the start of the 19th Cen. The
            documentation for this came from the Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly.

            I also have a 1763 set of Engineer manuals published in Britain which
            uses j as we would today. Things were not as uniform as they are today
            in usage and spelling.

            Regards,

            Bob Dorian
            US Engineers
          • Angela Gottfred
            There is definitely _something_ odd about the way i & j were viewed in the early 19C. My c.1806 edition of Johnson s dictionary considers i and j to be
            Message 5 of 12 , Jun 5, 2001
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              There is definitely _something_ odd about the way "i" & "j" were viewed in
              the early 19C. My c.1806 edition of Johnson's dictionary considers 'i' and
              'j' to be the same letter, alphabetizing 'jay' and 'jazel' before 'ibis'.
              'Ibis' to 'idyl' are followed by 'jealous' to 'jezebel'. 'Jezebel' is
              followed by 'if' and so on. I wonder if this is some academic affectation
              that comes from the fact that there is no 'j' in Latin.

              Your humble & obedient servant,
              Angela Gottfred
            • BritcomHMP@aol.com
              In a message dated 6/5/2001 9:19:13 AM Central Daylight Time, agottfre@telusplanet.net writes:
              Message 6 of 12 , Jun 5, 2001
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                In a message dated 6/5/2001 9:19:13 AM Central Daylight Time,
                agottfre@... writes:

                << I wonder if this is some academic affectation
                that comes from the fact that there is no 'j' in Latin. >>

                I think you could well be right Angela, that is was considered the same
                letter even though it is written differently and pronounced differently!
                Of course this affectation does not affect the usage in everyday written
                language one jot.

                Cheers

                Tim
              • James Aldrich
                ... Considering earlier efforts to impose Latin grammar on English, I suspect you are not far from the truth of the matter. JSA -- Green Bay Lacrosse-- Play
                Message 7 of 12 , Jun 5, 2001
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                  Angela Gottfred wrote:

                  > I wonder if this is some academic affectation
                  > that comes from the fact that there is no 'j' in Latin.

                  Considering earlier efforts to impose Latin grammar on English, I suspect you are not far from the truth of the matter.

                  JSA

                  --
                  Green Bay Lacrosse-- Play hard; play often.
                • Craig Williams
                  Scott I am doing the film Salem Witch Trials right now, which occurred in 1692 and they definitely used the letter J . one of the poor bastards hung was
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jun 12, 2001
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                    Scott
                    I am doing the film "Salem Witch Trials" right now, which occurred in 1692
                    and they definitely used the letter "J". one of the poor bastards hung was
                    John Proctor.

                    Craig
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Scott Jeznach <scottj@...>
                    To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                    Date: Monday, June 04, 2001 2:55 PM
                    Subject: [WarOf1812] The Letter "J" in the alphabet


                    >Got a weird question for the group.
                    >
                    >In the mid to late 18th century, the letter "J" was not used in the English
                    >alphabet. The letter "I" was used for both "I" and "J."
                    >
                    >Was the letter "J" in use by our period (ie: the early 19th Century)?
                    >
                    >Scott J.
                    >Royal Marines
                    >
                    >
                    >The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                    square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                    square miles...
                    >
                    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                  • Roger Marsh
                    Ah - it was Scott Jeznach, then. Kindly elucidate, Scott. Regards, Roger Marsh ... ? ... hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jun 13, 2001
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                      Ah - it was Scott Jeznach, then. Kindly elucidate, Scott.

                      Regards,

                      Roger Marsh

                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Scott Jeznach <scottj@c...>
                      > Subject: [WarOf1812] The Letter "J" in the alphabet
                      >
                      <SNIP>?

                      > >The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
                      hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the
                      fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
                      > >
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