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Umbrella Groups? now Provost Corps?

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  • capt_haha@yahoo.com
    I have been following the suggestions for the forming of Umbrella Groups, leading to Provost Corps. The postings have progressed from the primary reason for
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 4 10:47 AM
      I have been following the suggestions for the forming of
      Umbrella Groups, leading to Provost Corps.
      The postings have progressed from the primary reason for
      forming the Umbrella Group: for safety issues only, to what
      do we see in the next entry?authenticity, followed by the
      need for a Provost Core? Provost Core ?????
      One can hardly argue when issues of safety are discussed,
      and a case can be made to form the Umbrella Group, but a
      red flag is waved in my mind, as far as the rest of these
      issues are concered.Where do we draw the line?
      More rules, more government? This is beginning to paralell
      Our recent Gun Law battles, sound familier ?
      Think long and hard about any thing as formal as Provost
      Core and its rules, the road to hell is paved with good
      intentions.
      Hey I guess what I'm really trying to say is that ,I agree
      with Tim that we already have Officers and Nco's in place,
      and in the Norfolk Militia its our responsibility
      to enforce safety and discipline.
      Best Regards Larry Hanna
    • HQ93rd@aol.com
      In a message dated 4/4/01 10:55:27 AM, capt_haha@yahoo.com writes: Is that like an apple
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 4 1:07 PM
        In a message dated 4/4/01 10:55:27 AM, capt_haha@... writes:

        << followed by the
        need for a Provost Core? Provost Core ????? >>

        Is that like an apple core?

        "Apple core!"
        "Baltimore!"
        "Who's your friend?"
        "He is!" --- SPLAT!


        OK, so I have now diverged waaaay off into Disney cartoons. But that's the
        story of my life...
        B
        93rd SHRoFLHU
        THE Thin Red Line
        www.93rdhighlanders.com
      • John-Paul Johnson
        Okay, my turn... I think that the concerns of all can be addressed without resorting to the (apparently) dreaded umbrella group or even Provosts. I requires,
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 4 5:26 PM
          Okay, my turn...

          I think that the concerns of all can be addressed without resorting to
          the (apparently) dreaded umbrella group or even Provosts. I requires,
          as someone more eloquent than I put it, someone with the "stones" to
          enforce regulations.

          Now Regs fall into several categories. There are those written in
          period documents that we can haul out and say - "THIS is what was
          done". There are those that are derived through inference and
          conjecture that are open to interpretation (though those on opposite
          sides of the argument may not think so) and those that take into account
          modern safety concerns and laws.

          Anyway, my PERSONAL opinion is that it's up to the organizers of each
          event to take that responsibility. It starts with a Site Commander.
          Second, prepare an Operations Order listing the Situation, the Mission,
          Execution (including co-ordinating instructions, timetables, emergency
          procedures, etc), Administrative and Service Support, and Commanding and
          Signals (chain of command, phone numbers, radio freqs, etc). This
          should also encompass applicable laws and safety rules, and anything
          site specific you need to add.

          Once complete, the Ops Order should be promulgated as widely as possible
          to units planning to attend with the understanding that all units or
          individuals attending are bound by the chain of command and the contents
          of the orders or they will be removed from the event and banned from
          attending in the future. This shouldn't be interpreted as licence for
          the "Fashion Police" to roam around turfing those with incorrect buttons
          or whatever. Common sense and general bonhomie should prevail.

          When the event starts, briefings of Commanders and general briefings
          should occur. During the event, as was said, Officers and NCOs have to
          act like them. I also like the idea of walk-ins being sponsored to
          ensure some level of control as well.

          VERY importantly, debriefings and after action reports are critical to
          determine what went right, what went wrong and how to improve things for
          the next time.

          Now, people are good and recognizing and adopting (stealing) good
          ideas. I think you'll find that laying out events in this manner would
          spread and maybe even bring some level of consistency that many seem to
          crave.

          My 2 shillings and sixpence...

          J-P Johnson
          Royal Nfld Reg't

          --------------
          J-P's Homepage: http://members.home.net/jpjohnsn/

          Battle of Georgian Bay Website:
          http://www.battleofgeorgianbay.huronia.com/
        • BritcomHMP@aol.com
          In a message dated 4/4/2001 7:30:30 PM Central Daylight Time, jpjohnsn@home.net writes:
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 4 5:49 PM
            In a message dated 4/4/2001 7:30:30 PM Central Daylight Time,
            jpjohnsn@... writes:

            << I think that the concerns of all can be addressed without resorting to
            the (apparently) dreaded umbrella group or even Provosts. I requires,
            as someone more eloquent than I put it, someone with the "stones" to
            enforce regulations. >>

            But if we are going to leave enforcement to the sites to do the 'enforcement'
            we are not looking for 'someone' but hoping (I would venture to say hoping
            against hope) that every site will have such an individual. We know from
            experience this is never going to happen.

            "I wish we all had good luck all the time,
            I wish rainwater was beer,
            I wish we had wings!
            But we DON'T"
            Matthew, household servant of Sir Thomas More (alias The Common Man) in
            Robert Bolt's 'A Man for all Seasons'

            Cheers

            Tim
          • John-Paul Johnson
            I didn t say to leave it to the sites - we should keep it in the family. J-P
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 4 5:55 PM
              I didn't say to leave it to the sites - we should keep it in the family.

              J-P

              BritcomHMP@... wrote:
              >
              > In a message dated 4/4/2001 7:30:30 PM Central Daylight Time,
              > jpjohnsn@... writes:
              >
              > << I think that the concerns of all can be addressed without resorting to
              > the (apparently) dreaded umbrella group or even Provosts. I requires,
              > as someone more eloquent than I put it, someone with the "stones" to
              > enforce regulations. >>
              >
              > But if we are going to leave enforcement to the sites to do the 'enforcement'
              > we are not looking for 'someone' but hoping (I would venture to say hoping
              > against hope) that every site will have such an individual. We know from
              > experience this is never going to happen.
              >
              > "I wish we all had good luck all the time,
              > I wish rainwater was beer,
              > I wish we had wings!
              > But we DON'T"
              > Matthew, household servant of Sir Thomas More (alias The Common Man) in
              > Robert Bolt's 'A Man for all Seasons'
              >
              > Cheers
              >
              > Tim
              >
              >
              > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • BritcomHMP@aol.com
              In a message dated 4/4/2001 7:56:33 PM Central Daylight Time, jpjohnsn@home.net writes:
              Message 6 of 7 , Apr 4 5:58 PM
                In a message dated 4/4/2001 7:56:33 PM Central Daylight Time,
                jpjohnsn@... writes:

                << I didn't say to leave it to the sites - we should keep it in the family.
                >>

                Oops sorry about that! Yes, absolutely.

                Cheers

                Tim
              • chimera1@sympatico.ca
                Cheez, JP, but I do like what you are saying. I am sure that a site commander (and I do think Steve Hartwick is an example, from some of the anecdotes which
                Message 7 of 7 , Apr 4 6:52 PM
                  Cheez, JP, but I do like what you are saying. I am sure that a site
                  commander (and I do think Steve Hartwick is an example, from some of
                  the anecdotes which have been expressed), backed up by the unit
                  officers and NCO's would be effective for SAFETY, provided that the
                  site is willing to delegate that authority, instead of to some
                  dubviously qualified "friend/expert" (I think we have all seen that
                  before) who materialises on the first day with some rather weird
                  ideas and then disappears. And provided that the RULES are simple,
                  straight forward, and can be expressed easily with a minimum of nit-
                  picking detail.

                  Doing this on an event by event basis obviates a continuous umbrella
                  group, although it does rely on people who are willing to take on the
                  responsibility. But I don't think Steve is the only one who, with
                  support, is willing to do that.

                  Doug



                  --- In WarOf1812@y..., John-Paul Johnson <jpjohnsn@h...> wrote:
                  > Okay, my turn...
                  >
                  > I think that the concerns of all can be addressed without resorting
                  to
                  > the (apparently) dreaded umbrella group or even Provosts. I
                  requires,
                  > as someone more eloquent than I put it, someone with the "stones" to
                  > enforce regulations.
                  >
                  > Now Regs fall into several categories. There are those written in
                  > period documents that we can haul out and say - "THIS is what was
                  > done". There are those that are derived through inference and
                  > conjecture that are open to interpretation (though those on opposite
                  > sides of the argument may not think so) and those that take into
                  account
                  > modern safety concerns and laws.
                  >
                  > Anyway, my PERSONAL opinion is that it's up to the organizers of
                  each
                  > event to take that responsibility. It starts with a Site
                  Commander.
                  > Second, prepare an Operations Order listing the Situation, the
                  Mission,
                  > Execution (including co-ordinating instructions, timetables,
                  emergency
                  > procedures, etc), Administrative and Service Support, and
                  Commanding and
                  > Signals (chain of command, phone numbers, radio freqs, etc). This
                  > should also encompass applicable laws and safety rules, and anything
                  > site specific you need to add.
                  >
                  > Once complete, the Ops Order should be promulgated as widely as
                  possible
                  > to units planning to attend with the understanding that all units or
                  > individuals attending are bound by the chain of command and the
                  contents
                  > of the orders or they will be removed from the event and banned from
                  > attending in the future. This shouldn't be interpreted as licence
                  for
                  > the "Fashion Police" to roam around turfing those with incorrect
                  buttons
                  > or whatever. Common sense and general bonhomie should prevail.
                  >
                  > When the event starts, briefings of Commanders and general briefings
                  > should occur. During the event, as was said, Officers and NCOs
                  have to
                  > act like them. I also like the idea of walk-ins being sponsored to
                  > ensure some level of control as well.
                  >
                  > VERY importantly, debriefings and after action reports are critical
                  to
                  > determine what went right, what went wrong and how to improve
                  things for
                  > the next time.
                  >
                  > Now, people are good and recognizing and adopting (stealing) good
                  > ideas. I think you'll find that laying out events in this manner
                  would
                  > spread and maybe even bring some level of consistency that many
                  seem to
                  > crave.
                  >
                  > My 2 shillings and sixpence...
                  >
                  > J-P Johnson
                  > Royal Nfld Reg't
                  >
                  > --------------
                  > J-P's Homepage: http://members.home.net/jpjohnsn/
                  >
                  > Battle of Georgian Bay Website:
                  > http://www.battleofgeorgianbay.huronia.com/
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