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46402Re: Pike Drill for Serjeants, Revisited...

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  • shayna121
    Dec 29, 2012
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      What I mean is that when the Other Ranks present arms, and the Officers are in formation with the battalion, they salute with their swords. Some may call it semantics, but we think it's an important distinction.

      Chris

      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Colonel" <lehrerprofessoren@...> wrote:
      >
      > I would like to ask if you are refering to an officer being saluted by a soldier presenting arms to him when you say, "...officers do not present arms." I know from manuals of the 18th century and following that officers are instructed in presenting arms when in line and in formation with the battalion or when marching with eyes left or right. Please clarify for me if officers are not to present arms at all according to some research as I would like to have this straight for future mention. Thank you.
      >
      > Tom
      >
      > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "shayna121" <PrivateCannon@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Very interesting.
      > >
      > > Iain and I have been carrying on this converstaion offline, but here are some of the things we've discussed:
      > >
      > > 1) Officers do not 'present arms.' When their men do so, they salute.
      > >
      > > 2) To reiterate, no period drill manual yet found has a 'present arms' for Serjeants armed with a pike.
      > >
      > >
      > > 3) This drill manual says Serjeants are to remain at the shoulder during all other movements, but that would still allow them to salute in the manner described in previous converstaions (arm across the body to set the musket or pike firmly into the shoulder). They wouldn't be removing their pike from their shoulder.
      > >
      > > Do these things suggest that while the rank and file present arms, the Serjeants salute as they would when approaching an officer? The other alternative is that they do nothing, which doesn't quite feel right to me.
      > >
      > > Also, as this is a drill manual for the pike, can we assume that Serjeants armed with muskets continue to present arms?
      > >
      > > I'd love to hear others' thoughts.
      > >
      > > Merry Christmas and Happy Hogmanay,
      > >
      > > Chris McKay
      > >
      > > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Iain Burns" <iain51hdbw@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > All,
      > > that, "Serjeants remain at the shoulder during the performance of the other parts of the exercise...'
      > >
      > > > Mr. McKay's addition to the conversation re: saluting, taken from the 85th Light Infantry Standing orders book, would therefore only be employed when a Serjeant was rendering proper reverence to an Officer, and not something used when the rest of his group was called to Present. Indeed, the manuals I have seen have a "Salute" for Officers, but again nothing about a special move for Present; to my mind, at least, there is a subtle difference between being called to Present and rendering a Salute, even though one might Salute while others are given the order to Present.
      > >
      > > >
      > > > Aye,
      > > > Iain
      > > > 1st Royal Scots, No. 3 (Centre) Coy
      > >
      >
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