340Re: Who won???
- Feb 19, 1999
>From: Sean <shirst@...>Sean,
>Everyone seems to think it necessary to sugar coat their answer so that no
>one gets offended and while I don't want to make enemies I have no problem
>with stating exactly what I think without disclaimers. There was one clear
>and obvious winner in the War of 1812... the Canadians! We one because we
>fly a Canadian flag, have a Canadian national anthem, Canadian (play)
>money, our very own wonderful parliament with all of its problems, taxes, a
>national debt, etc, etc. It may have been considered a minor occurrance on
>the world stage but to us it could be argued to be the most important
>defining point in our nation's history. A small number of men held off a
>vastly more powerful nation with a population 10 times that of Canada.
>Simply put, America declared war on Britian with the intent of capturing
>Canada and we stopped them. The reasons for their invasion are irrelevent,
>land captured by the British means little and the number of battles won by
>either side is moot. After the dust settled and before any peace treaty was
>signed Canada was still there. Conclusion we won the war... hands down.
>While on the topic of who won what though... there is a question that has
>been nagging me. The line people draw about who won the Battle of Lundy's
>Lane. America says it is a clear cut victory on their part and yet can they
>really claim it as such. Casualties on both sides were similar. Yes, the
>Americans did capture the British guns, but then found their position
>tenuous at best and opted to abandon them where they were. They then made a
>tactical retreat back to Fort Erie effectively ending their assault
>campaign up the pennisula. The British on the other hand were left in
>control of the field even if they could put up no effective pursuit of the
>Americans until the next day. They were successful in their bid to stop the
>American advance and hold strategic ground. The British failed to achieve
>these goals at Chippewa and so the victory goes to America in the battle --
>clearly. But at Lundy's Lane America achieved none of it's goal while
>Britian did exactly what they needed to do. With a little coaxing I'm
>prepared to give them a draw but I'm also quite willing to say we won that
>one. (So let the dirt fly now)
>This next section is directed at Rob Henderson.
>Your posting about valian Canadian action is excellent but there are a few
>points you missed that I feel must be corrected.
>Ogdensburg - You mention the Glengarry Light at Ogdensburg but neglect to
>mention the Royal Newfoundland Regiment (all colonial fencibles). The
>entire assault was led by Capt. Tito LeLievre M.I.D. While the Glengarries
>were pinned down by artillery Capt. LeLievre led the Newfoudlanders in a
>bayonet assault against a dug in position and drove the American line back.
>Shortly after the town was surrendered. LeLievre was Mentioned in Dispatch
>for his valiant action.
>Fort George - Again you mention the Glengarries in their bayonet charge
>against the Americans but fail to mention the Royal Newfoundland Grenadier
>company's part in the battle. They fought a rear gaurd action and remained
>in contact with the enemy under withering conditions for over 4 hours. "In
>contact" in military terms means that they were "insight of and engaged
>with" the enemy. The Grenadiers suffered over 50 percent casualties for
>Resupply of Fort Michilimackinac - You mention the heroic march of the
>104th from New Brunswick but what about the Royal Newfoundland Regt's march
>from York to Georgian Bay where they built bateaux in the woods and then
>rowed from there to Fort Michilimackinac. A total journey of 700 kms. with
>the march starting in mid-March.
>I know I'm dwelling on the Royal Newfoundlanders but they are my regiment
>and I hate to see them neglected. I'm actually supporting what you say in
>that it was really Canadians who defended Canadian soil and we who had so
>much to lose if America was victorious. We fought hard to defend our land
>and WE WON!!!
>No ifs, ands, or buts; Canada won the War of 1812!
>Cpl. Sean Hirst
>Royal Newfoundland Reg't, Lt. Coy
I know nothing about the war of 1812, until 3 years ago after reading
our regimental history I learnt a little, then I read Le Coulter's book,
the name of which I cannot remember but something about Merry days.
Now I am learning that both sides apparently won, and I get an
impression that rather like Waterloo the only thing the rest of you can
agree on is that the King's Army either wasn't there, wasn't involved or
wasn't relevant :-) We're use it by now!
Out of interest what was the disposition and numbers (rough) of the
nationalities that fought in this war? Presumably American, American
Loyalist, Canadian, French Canadian, Native American, Native Canadian,
French? West Indian Militia? What sort of British Regiments, regular
army (1st Foot to 100th Foot), British Militia, British Veteran
Sorry I have no idea, and I apologise if I've missed anyone or used the
wrong designations, but who was fighting in this small event of yours
Oh, and as to who one, we never do, its like one of sportsmen said, "you
never beat them, you just score more points" Touche
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