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Re: [WKneedle] need help

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  • Jane Stockton
    ... Lady Cera, Can I just clarify? You would like an image, of a griffin, from the period of the reign of King Henry II? I checked the Sternenmantel of
    Message 1 of 3 , Jan 20, 2005
      At 08:49 AM 21/01/2005, Melissa wrote:

      >I am looking for a picture of a 1000 or 11th century King Henry II
      >german Griffin. Pls let me know if you find one...
      >Thanks Lady Cera..

      Lady Cera,

      Can I just clarify? You would like an image, of a griffin, from the period
      of the reign of King Henry II?

      I checked the Sternenmantel of Heinrich II
      (http://medieval.webcon.net.au/extant_heinrich_ii_sternenmantel.html) but
      there are no griffins. Another is the Kaisermantel of Otto IV, while it has
      some very cute lions, no griffins.

      The closest in time that I can find would be an image of a griffin from the
      chasuble made for Thomas a Beckett in Spain in 1116. A drawing of it is
      available in an old edition of "Embroidery" magazine, Vol 18, No 4, Winter 1967

      This is a two page article with line drawings of griffins from several
      historical embroideries, all covering the SCA period.

      Cheers,
      Jane
    • Debra Cobb
      Hi Cera, OK, what I discovered...and I m assuming that you are talking about Henry II of England (1154-1189), was that he lived at a time when his
      Message 2 of 3 , Jan 24, 2005
        Hi Cera,

        OK, what I discovered...and I'm assuming that you are talking about Henry II
        of England (1154-1189), was that he lived at a time when his contemporaries
        were Frederich I of Germany, Louis VII of France and Roger II of Sicily.
        Some of the royal garments done to honer the Norman kings in Sicily were
        made in Palermo and later became the garments used by the Holy Roman
        Emperors. Some of these garments can be seen today in Vienna's
        Kunsthistorisches Museum.

        One of these garments was an "alb" created in about 1181 for the Sicilian
        Norman King's coronation.
        This royal tunic worn on the outside was highly decorate with rows of
        pearls, gold metal thread and wonderful silk fabrics. The trim or border at
        each elbow on the sleeve has griffins "addorsed". The griffins also appear
        on the bottom border of the alb. The border on the sleeve and the border at
        the bottom of the alb may have been added later on around 1220. From my
        book, I can barely see a figure on the sleeve "elbow trim" and I can't see
        what's on the bottom. The text talks about the griffins, but the photos
        aren't close up enough for me to see. I would guess that griffins of this
        time period may look somewhat primitive as do the lions...meaning somewhat
        long and skinny without much detail.

        OK, now here's where my memory is lacking...I think the griffins had a
        symbolic meaning in Arab culture, and I believe the Moors occupied Sicily
        right before the Normans. So that much of the embroidery design you will
        see on the Sicilian Norman clothing reflects the Arab culture, and in fact
        you will actually find "Kufic" lettering on some of the garments such as the
        famous robe with the Camel & Lion fighting.

        Hope some of this helps,

        Isela

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Melissa" <melissadavenport2002@...>
        To: <WKneedle@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Jan 20, 2005 1:49 PM
        Subject: [WKneedle] need help





        I am looking for a picture of a 1000 or 11th century King Henry II
        german Griffin. Pls let me know if you find one...
        Thanks Lady Cera..








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