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Re: Request for Research Help

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  • a_velvet_claw
    Yvianne, What a fascinating piece! What a pity there s no image. Don t you just hate that? Thankyou for pointing out the description though :-) Elmsley Rose
    Message 1 of 8 , May 5, 2012
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      Yvianne,

      What a fascinating piece! What a pity there's no image. Don't you just hate that? Thankyou for pointing out the description though :-)

      Elmsley Rose

      ......
      > this awesome description, unfortunately there's no image :-(
      >
      > Chalice veil
      > Place of origin: Italy (made)
      >
    • Tréphine la Broderesse
      Greetings, I usually lurk from Atlantia, but I thought I d mention Mistress Karen Larsdatter s fabulous on-line resource. Here s a link to the sitemap and
      Message 2 of 8 , May 6, 2012
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        Greetings,

        I usually lurk from Atlantia, but I thought I'd mention Mistress Karen
        Larsdatter's fabulous on-line resource. Here's a link to the sitemap and
        there's a category of "Gastronomical material culture" with links to
        paintings of feasts as well as Perugia napkins, etc. Plus there are all
        kinds of needlework, etc. links that can help you waste many many hours!

        http://larsdatter.com/sitemap.htm

        Back to lurking,
        Tréphine la Broderesse


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Chris Laning
        ... A few comments: The history of napkins resources named above don t look to me as though they have been very deeply researched. They probably have some
        Message 3 of 8 , May 7, 2012
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          > To that end, I'm requesting help in locating resources on period cup covers and napkins. I already have two relatively good online sources. Most of you are now yelling at the computer "Go to the library!" The problem with that is that I'm in the Stronghold of Warrior's Gate (Korea), I've never even heard of an English language library in Korea. So I'm resorting to asking you for online references or scanned books to the aforementioned cup cover and napkins.
          >
          > For those of you that are wondering the whole competition is feast gear (so if you have period references to a whole tablesetting, I'd be grateful if you'd pass those along as well).
          >
          > Here are the two references that I have found so far:
          > http://www.foodreference.com/html/art-history-napkins-729.html
          > http://www.funtrivia.com/trivia-quiz/History/A-Brief-History-of-the-Napkin-331769.html


          A few comments:

          The "history of napkins" resources named above don't look to me as though they have been very deeply researched. They probably have some good information in them, but it's going to be a bit difficult to pick out which is good information based on period napkins, and which is speculation based on modern napkins. The other examples people have suggested are probably better sources.

          A lot of people start out assuming that napkins in period were embroidered like napkins often are today, rather like handkerchiefs with a nice hem and a motif embroidered in one corner. I don't know as I've ever seen this in descriptions, paintings, or existing examples of period napkins. From the limited amount of reading I've done, napkins in period seem to be predominantly plain white, sometimes (especially in the 16th century) with a woven-in damask design, or else they follow the model of towels, with a line of simple embroidery close to the edge. I suspect this is because they need to stand up to a lot of washing. Handkerchiefs, which are sometimes used as a model for napkins, tend to be smaller and to have more embroidery on them, since they were often worn "for show" rather than for actual use.

          As for cup covers, all the chalice veils I know of are church-related, but I know lots of people would be very interested if we could find period examples of cup covers that were used, for instance, at period picnics. I know that in warm-weather areas today, a little square cloth cup cover with bead-weighted edges is very helpful for keeping bees and wasps out of an open cup of beverage. Chalice veils are probably the best model we have, but the period chalice covers that have survived seem to be larger and more heavily embroidered than would really be practical for a piece of feast gear that probably would have to be washed often.

          Lastly, I've asked the folks in the "Perfectly Period Feast" group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PerfectlyPeriodFeast/ -- if you don't know them, the name is definitely tongue-in-cheek!) what resources they have been able to turn up on table linens. I know there are some good collections of pictures that people have made, and hope they will have some additional resources to contribute. So that might be a good place to look. As far as I know anyone is welcome to join that group.

          ____________________________________________________________

          O (Dame) Christian de Holacombe, OL - Shire of Windy Meads
          + Kingdom of the West - Chris Laning <claning@...>
          http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
          ____________________________________________________________
        • Chris Laning
          ... ____________________________________________________________ O (Dame) Christian de Holacombe, OL - Shire of Windy Meads + Kingdom of the West - Chris
          Message 4 of 8 , May 7, 2012
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            I don't think this message made it to the group:

            > From: dcobb@...
            > Subject: Re: Request for Research Help
            > Date: May 7, 2012 12:16:18 PM PDT
            > To: WKneedle-owner@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > One book you might wish to read that discusses historical background in a "more-general-than-detailed" sense but nicely laid out with some wonderful pictures is:
            >
            > The Book of Fine Linen by Francoise De Bonneville and Marc Porthault
            >
            > The book covers bed, bath and table linens. This book is a good jumping off point for further research into household linens.
            >
            > Isela
            >
            > --- In WKneedle@yahoogroups.com, Tréphine la Broderesse <trephina@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> Greetings,
            >>
            >> I usually lurk from Atlantia, but I thought I'd mention Mistress Karen
            >> Larsdatter's fabulous on-line resource. Here's a link to the sitemap and
            >> there's a category of "Gastronomical material culture" with links to
            >> paintings of feasts as well as Perugia napkins, etc. Plus there are all
            >> kinds of needlework, etc. links that can help you waste many many hours!
            >>
            >> http://larsdatter.com/sitemap.htm
            >>
            >> Back to lurking,
            >> Tréphine la Broderesse
            >>
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            ____________________________________________________________

            O (Dame) Christian de Holacombe, OL - Shire of Windy Meads
            + Kingdom of the West - Chris Laning <claning@...>
            http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
            ____________________________________________________________
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