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Re: Conversation #3 of VillageZendoOccupyWall

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  • ladybug
    Just to add- I am still very interested, as I mentioned last week, in having a members meeting which can look at the Village Zendo community and financial
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 4, 2011
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      Just to add- I am still very interested, as I mentioned last week, in having a members meeting which can look at the Village Zendo community and financial practices through the lens of the issues brought up by OWS. We can look at other institutions all we want, but we have the ability to change things within our own system, so we may want to direct our efforts there. One of the issues I brought up was around dues collection and I also forwarded this info to the membership committee. Here is how a different spiritual community collects dues which more fully bridges the gap between those who have more and less, takes into account single versus two headed households, respects privacy but also asks for honest assessment of dues based on income:

      http://www.bj.org/membership/membershipinfo/#Dues%20Plan

      This is an example of an issue around the overlap between OWS and our practice at the Zendo that I would like to explore. I would also like to explore how we can would encourage greater racial/ethnic and social-economic diversity in our Zendo membership and create a more inclusive community. This to me are also the values that OWS is turning us towards.


      Torei

      --- In VillageZendoOccupyWall@yahoogroups.com, "kaizengunn" <kaizengunn@...> wrote:
      >
      > Village Zendo Occupy Wall, Conversation #3, 12.3.11
      > The intention of this meeting was to come up with plans for action and organization. Comments included:
      > 1) the importance of just showing up;
      > 2) reach out to the Interdependence Project and Buddhist Peace Fellowship;
      > 3) donÕt know yet; 4) why do we feel a need to do anything? Why are we here in the zendo talking about this? Is there something that OWS is doing/not doing that we can do better? We need to build bridges rather than throw stones;
      > 4) protesting may not be the best thingÉperhaps only talking will help;
      > 5) OWS is an expression of the fact that we recognize the vast dimensions and interrelatedness of all the kinds of suffering that are created by our current global economic/political/social system. This is an awareness that is central to Buddhist thought: all things are connected and nothing can change without the system changing. The main question is, what kind of action/communication can be a catalyst for constructive change without being co-opted into the pre-existing system? This is what OWS has done so far- been the expression of and borne witness to the suffering without falling into a category that can be absorbed and co-opted by the system.
      > 6) the importance of a safe place to talk and hear ourselves=sangha/ sanctuary/ training/ political involvement/need for a cognitive map/need for doing our homework, constructing a cognitive map of all the issues/being present on protest side in non-dual compassionate, not Òotherize-ingÓ
      > 7) our goal is clear: how to transform the vast suffering created by the inequitable distribution of resources, money and power.
      > 8) cp. Parallel process between Zen koan study and OWS: both seek to open up the heart/mind to a level of awareness that transcends dualistic, linear logic/thought/words
      > 9) itÕs important to lift up models of what works
      > 10) an extended conversation was had around the topic of financially/economically how we got to our present situation in terms of the disaster of the banks, (Lehmann Bros, Goldman Sachs, et.al.), where the money came from to bail them out and how it served basically to increase the wealth at the top at the cost of all those below (1/99%); e.g., the CEO of Goldman Sachs was one of three people that decided to use federal money to bail out the banks. There was an express need to construct a narrative of what happened that led us to the current untenable situation that has given rise to OWS. This pattern of how the banks were bailed out is emblematic of the whole debacle.
      > 11) Suggestion: create 4 seminars for Jan, Feb, Mar & Apr of people who are familiar with these issues and can connect them to Buddhist thought and practice. Possible headings: a) economics- narrative of how we got here; b) public discourseÑhow do we truly communicate, how to find and speak the truth; c) communityÑhow to build; d) environment- how to save.
      > 12) Show up: be present at protest sites in ways that personalize rather than dehumanize and ÒotherizeÓ
      > 13) Commit to several weeks or unspecified weeks of meeting for Zazen and Open Discussion. Open and advertise to the public.
      > 14) Next meeting: next Saturday, 12/10, 6 p.m.
      > 15) What we have been doing in these conversations is already the model: meditation/discussion.
      >
    • Robert Gunn
      Torei, Thanks for keeping the at-home issues on the table. May I suggest you make a specific proposal for change, bring it to our meeting Saturday and muster
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 4, 2011
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        Torei, 

        Thanks for keeping the at-home issues on the table. May I suggest you make a specific proposal for change, bring it to our meeting Saturday and muster support for forwarding it to EC?

        You might also speak to Eisho directly about current policies that aim to accomplish the same thing that are not exactly on the books.

        Kaizen

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Dec 4, 2011, at 10:42 AM, "ladybug" <navahjs@...> wrote:

         

        Just to add- I am still very interested, as I mentioned last week, in having a members meeting which can look at the Village Zendo community and financial practices through the lens of the issues brought up by OWS. We can look at other institutions all we want, but we have the ability to change things within our own system, so we may want to direct our efforts there. One of the issues I brought up was around dues collection and I also forwarded this info to the membership committee. Here is how a different spiritual community collects dues which more fully bridges the gap between those who have more and less, takes into account single versus two headed households, respects privacy but also asks for honest assessment of dues based on income:

        http://www.bj.org/membership/membershipinfo/#Dues%20Plan

        This is an example of an issue around the overlap between OWS and our practice at the Zendo that I would like to explore. I would also like to explore how we can would encourage greater racial/ethnic and social-economic diversity in our Zendo membership and create a more inclusive community. This to me are also the values that OWS is turning us towards.

        Torei

        --- In VillageZendoOccupyWall@yahoogroups.com, "kaizengunn" <kaizengunn@...> wrote:
        >
        > Village Zendo Occupy Wall, Conversation #3, 12.3.11
        > The intention of this meeting was to come up with plans for action and organization. Comments included:
        > 1) the importance of just showing up;
        > 2) reach out to the Interdependence Project and Buddhist Peace Fellowship;
        > 3) donÕt know yet; 4) why do we feel a need to do anything? Why are we here in the zendo talking about this? Is there something that OWS is doing/not doing that we can do better? We need to build bridges rather than throw stones;
        > 4) protesting may not be the best thingÉperhaps only talking will help;
        > 5) OWS is an expression of the fact that we recognize the vast dimensions and interrelatedness of all the kinds of suffering that are created by our current global economic/political/social system. This is an awareness that is central to Buddhist thought: all things are connected and nothing can change without the system changing. The main question is, what kind of action/communication can be a catalyst for constructive change without being co-opted into the pre-existing system? This is what OWS has done so far- been the expression of and borne witness to the suffering without falling into a category that can be absorbed and co-opted by the system.
        > 6) the importance of a safe place to talk and hear ourselves=sangha/ sanctuary/ training/ political involvement/need for a cognitive map/need for doing our homework, constructing a cognitive map of all the issues/being present on protest side in non-dual compassionate, not Òotherize-ingÓ
        > 7) our goal is clear: how to transform the vast suffering created by the inequitable distribution of resources, money and power.
        > 8) cp. Parallel process between Zen koan study and OWS: both seek to open up the heart/mind to a level of awareness that transcends dualistic, linear logic/thought/words
        > 9) itÕs important to lift up models of what works
        > 10) an extended conversation was had around the topic of financially/economically how we got to our present situation in terms of the disaster of the banks, (Lehmann Bros, Goldman Sachs, et.al.), where the money came from to bail them out and how it served basically to increase the wealth at the top at the cost of all those below (1/99%); e.g., the CEO of Goldman Sachs was one of three people that decided to use federal money to bail out the banks. There was an express need to construct a narrative of what happened that led us to the current untenable situation that has given rise to OWS. This pattern of how the banks were bailed out is emblematic of the whole debacle.
        > 11) Suggestion: create 4 seminars for Jan, Feb, Mar & Apr of people who are familiar with these issues and can connect them to Buddhist thought and practice. Possible headings: a) economics- narrative of how we got here; b) public discourseÑhow do we truly communicate, how to find and speak the truth; c) communityÑhow to build; d) environment- how to save.
        > 12) Show up: be present at protest sites in ways that personalize rather than dehumanize and ÒotherizeÓ
        > 13) Commit to several weeks or unspecified weeks of meeting for Zazen and Open Discussion. Open and advertise to the public.
        > 14) Next meeting: next Saturday, 12/10, 6 p.m.
        > 15) What we have been doing in these conversations is already the model: meditation/discussion.
        >

      • ladybug
        Hi Kaizen, I won t able to be at the next meeting because I am teaching next weekend. I don t have a specific thing right now that I propose changing, but just
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 4, 2011
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          Hi Kaizen,

          I won't able to be at the next meeting because I am teaching next weekend.

          I don't have a specific thing right now that I propose changing, but just like everyone else stated, would love to have a continued conversations, and include the multiple perspectives of the Sangha. As I said in my earlier post- I propose that we
          1. Have another member's meeting (or is one already scheduled?) like we had the last two years. Hopefully it will not conflict with my work schedule! That meeting may be the appropriate place to discuss the issue that I am raising. Last time there were a few different working groups that addressed different issues. Maybe one of the groups can be OWS and our organizational policies.
          2. It would be great if all policies of the Zendo can be transparent and on the books! Maybe Eisho can join in here with us, or at the membership meeting. Whatever is appropriate TBD by the EC.
          3. The link I provided was just a suggestion. I also forwarded it To Roshi and Joshin Sensei, mainly because I thought it embodied the OWS values. But other members may not think so, or it may not fit in the financial reality of our Zendo. Either way, I am interested if anyone think we can over time move towards the "BJ" way. In any case I am sorry that I can't be at the next meeting, but I hope to be at future ones, or even the membership meeting.

          Best,

          Torei

          --- In VillageZendoOccupyWall@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gunn <kaizengunn@...> wrote:
          >
          > Torei,
          >
          > Thanks for keeping the at-home issues on the table. May I suggest you make a specific proposal for change, bring it to our meeting Saturday and muster support for forwarding it to EC?
          >
          > You might also speak to Eisho directly about current policies that aim to accomplish the same thing that are not exactly on the books.
          >
          > Kaizen
          >
          > Sent from my iPhone
          >
          > On Dec 4, 2011, at 10:42 AM, "ladybug" <navahjs@...> wrote:
          >
          > > Just to add- I am still very interested, as I mentioned last week, in having a members meeting which can look at the Village Zendo community and financial practices through the lens of the issues brought up by OWS. We can look at other institutions all we want, but we have the ability to change things within our own system, so we may want to direct our efforts there. One of the issues I brought up was around dues collection and I also forwarded this info to the membership committee. Here is how a different spiritual community collects dues which more fully bridges the gap between those who have more and less, takes into account single versus two headed households, respects privacy but also asks for honest assessment of dues based on income:
          > >
          > > http://www.bj.org/membership/membershipinfo/#Dues%20Plan
          > >
          > > This is an example of an issue around the overlap between OWS and our practice at the Zendo that I would like to explore. I would also like to explore how we can would encourage greater racial/ethnic and social-economic diversity in our Zendo membership and create a more inclusive community. This to me are also the values that OWS is turning us towards.
          > >
          > > Torei
          > >
          > > --- In VillageZendoOccupyWall@yahoogroups.com, "kaizengunn" <kaizengunn@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Village Zendo Occupy Wall, Conversation #3, 12.3.11
          > > > The intention of this meeting was to come up with plans for action and organization. Comments included:
          > > > 1) the importance of just showing up;
          > > > 2) reach out to the Interdependence Project and Buddhist Peace Fellowship;
          > > > 3) donÕt know yet; 4) why do we feel a need to do anything? Why are we here in the zendo talking about this? Is there something that OWS is doing/not doing that we can do better? We need to build bridges rather than throw stones;
          > > > 4) protesting may not be the best thingÉperhaps only talking will help;
          > > > 5) OWS is an expression of the fact that we recognize the vast dimensions and interrelatedness of all the kinds of suffering that are created by our current global economic/political/social system. This is an awareness that is central to Buddhist thought: all things are connected and nothing can change without the system changing. The main question is, what kind of action/communication can be a catalyst for constructive change without being co-opted into the pre-existing system? This is what OWS has done so far- been the expression of and borne witness to the suffering without falling into a category that can be absorbed and co-opted by the system.
          > > > 6) the importance of a safe place to talk and hear ourselves=sangha/ sanctuary/ training/ political involvement/need for a cognitive map/need for doing our homework, constructing a cognitive map of all the issues/being present on protest side in non-dual compassionate, not Ã'otherize-ingÃ"
          > > > 7) our goal is clear: how to transform the vast suffering created by the inequitable distribution of resources, money and power.
          > > > 8) cp. Parallel process between Zen koan study and OWS: both seek to open up the heart/mind to a level of awareness that transcends dualistic, linear logic/thought/words
          > > > 9) itÕs important to lift up models of what works
          > > > 10) an extended conversation was had around the topic of financially/economically how we got to our present situation in terms of the disaster of the banks, (Lehmann Bros, Goldman Sachs, et.al.), where the money came from to bail them out and how it served basically to increase the wealth at the top at the cost of all those below (1/99%); e.g., the CEO of Goldman Sachs was one of three people that decided to use federal money to bail out the banks. There was an express need to construct a narrative of what happened that led us to the current untenable situation that has given rise to OWS. This pattern of how the banks were bailed out is emblematic of the whole debacle.
          > > > 11) Suggestion: create 4 seminars for Jan, Feb, Mar & Apr of people who are familiar with these issues and can connect them to Buddhist thought and practice. Possible headings: a) economics- narrative of how we got here; b) public discourseÃ`how do we truly communicate, how to find and speak the truth; c) communityÃ`how to build; d) environment- how to save.
          > > > 12) Show up: be present at protest sites in ways that personalize rather than dehumanize and Ã'otherizeÃ"
          > > > 13) Commit to several weeks or unspecified weeks of meeting for Zazen and Open Discussion. Open and advertise to the public.
          > > > 14) Next meeting: next Saturday, 12/10, 6 p.m.
          > > > 15) What we have been doing in these conversations is already the model: meditation/discussion.
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • Elena TaJo
          I really like this idea, and I also wonder whether some of us would like to continue the conversation you started about how our own work contributes to equity
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 4, 2011
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            I really like this idea, and I also wonder whether some of us would like to continue the conversation you started about how our own work contributes to equity in the world.  It's complicated, I know, but I've been thinking about it almost constantly since OWS began. 

            On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 10:42 AM, ladybug <navahjs@...> wrote:
             

            Just to add- I am still very interested, as I mentioned last week, in having a members meeting which can look at the Village Zendo community and financial practices through the lens of the issues brought up by OWS. We can look at other institutions all we want, but we have the ability to change things within our own system, so we may want to direct our efforts there. One of the issues I brought up was around dues collection and I also forwarded this info to the membership committee. Here is how a different spiritual community collects dues which more fully bridges the gap between those who have more and less, takes into account single versus two headed households, respects privacy but also asks for honest assessment of dues based on income:

            http://www.bj.org/membership/membershipinfo/#Dues%20Plan

            This is an example of an issue around the overlap between OWS and our practice at the Zendo that I would like to explore. I would also like to explore how we can would encourage greater racial/ethnic and social-economic diversity in our Zendo membership and create a more inclusive community. This to me are also the values that OWS is turning us towards.

            Torei



            --- In VillageZendoOccupyWall@yahoogroups.com, "kaizengunn" <kaizengunn@...> wrote:
            >
            > Village Zendo Occupy Wall, Conversation #3, 12.3.11
            > The intention of this meeting was to come up with plans for action and organization. Comments included:
            > 1) the importance of just showing up;
            > 2) reach out to the Interdependence Project and Buddhist Peace Fellowship;
            > 3) donÕt know yet; 4) why do we feel a need to do anything? Why are we here in the zendo talking about this? Is there something that OWS is doing/not doing that we can do better? We need to build bridges rather than throw stones;
            > 4) protesting may not be the best thingÉperhaps only talking will help;
            > 5) OWS is an expression of the fact that we recognize the vast dimensions and interrelatedness of all the kinds of suffering that are created by our current global economic/political/social system. This is an awareness that is central to Buddhist thought: all things are connected and nothing can change without the system changing. The main question is, what kind of action/communication can be a catalyst for constructive change without being co-opted into the pre-existing system? This is what OWS has done so far- been the expression of and borne witness to the suffering without falling into a category that can be absorbed and co-opted by the system.
            > 6) the importance of a safe place to talk and hear ourselves=sangha/ sanctuary/ training/ political involvement/need for a cognitive map/need for doing our homework, constructing a cognitive map of all the issues/being present on protest side in non-dual compassionate, not Òotherize-ingÓ
            > 7) our goal is clear: how to transform the vast suffering created by the inequitable distribution of resources, money and power.
            > 8) cp. Parallel process between Zen koan study and OWS: both seek to open up the heart/mind to a level of awareness that transcends dualistic, linear logic/thought/words
            > 9) itÕs important to lift up models of what works
            > 10) an extended conversation was had around the topic of financially/economically how we got to our present situation in terms of the disaster of the banks, (Lehmann Bros, Goldman Sachs, et.al.), where the money came from to bail them out and how it served basically to increase the wealth at the top at the cost of all those below (1/99%); e.g., the CEO of Goldman Sachs was one of three people that decided to use federal money to bail out the banks. There was an express need to construct a narrative of what happened that led us to the current untenable situation that has given rise to OWS. This pattern of how the banks were bailed out is emblematic of the whole debacle.
            > 11) Suggestion: create 4 seminars for Jan, Feb, Mar & Apr of people who are familiar with these issues and can connect them to Buddhist thought and practice. Possible headings: a) economics- narrative of how we got here; b) public discourseÑhow do we truly communicate, how to find and speak the truth; c) communityÑhow to build; d) environment- how to save.
            > 12) Show up: be present at protest sites in ways that personalize rather than dehumanize and ÒotherizeÓ
            > 13) Commit to several weeks or unspecified weeks of meeting for Zazen and Open Discussion. Open and advertise to the public.
            > 14) Next meeting: next Saturday, 12/10, 6 p.m.
            > 15) What we have been doing in these conversations is already the model: meditation/discussion.
            >




            --
            Elena TaJo
            http://OGReHome.com
            Home of Outsider Grief Relief

          • ladybug
            Great! I would love to continue the conversation with you about our work and participation in the Zendo and in the world at large. Torei
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 5, 2011
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              Great!
              I would love to continue the conversation with you about our work and participation in the Zendo and in the world at large.

              Torei


              --- In VillageZendoOccupyWall@yahoogroups.com, Elena TaJo <tajopro@...> wrote:
              >
              > I really like this idea, and I also wonder whether some of us would like to
              > continue the conversation you started about how our own work contributes to
              > equity in the world. It's complicated, I know, but I've been thinking
              > about it almost constantly since OWS began.
              >
              > On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 10:42 AM, ladybug <navahjs@...> wrote:
              >
              > > **
              > >
              > >
              > > Just to add- I am still very interested, as I mentioned last week, in
              > > having a members meeting which can look at the Village Zendo community and
              > > financial practices through the lens of the issues brought up by OWS. We
              > > can look at other institutions all we want, but we have the ability to
              > > change things within our own system, so we may want to direct our efforts
              > > there. One of the issues I brought up was around dues collection and I also
              > > forwarded this info to the membership committee. Here is how a different
              > > spiritual community collects dues which more fully bridges the gap between
              > > those who have more and less, takes into account single versus two headed
              > > households, respects privacy but also asks for honest assessment of dues
              > > based on income:
              > >
              > > http://www.bj.org/membership/membershipinfo/#Dues%20Plan
              > >
              > > This is an example of an issue around the overlap between OWS and our
              > > practice at the Zendo that I would like to explore. I would also like to
              > > explore how we can would encourage greater racial/ethnic and
              > > social-economic diversity in our Zendo membership and create a more
              > > inclusive community. This to me are also the values that OWS is turning us
              > > towards.
              > >
              > > Torei
              > >
              > >
              >
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