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Re: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Is a VDG just a DC HV low current source?

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  • Elmer Wiersma
    The VDG is a constant current output and the transformer is a constant voltage output. constant current means an infinite voltage with infinite resistance but
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 1, 2013
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      The VDG is a constant current output and the transformer is a constant voltage output.
       
      constant current means an infinite voltage with infinite resistance but also an infinite small voltage if the current is short circuited but always a constant supply of electrons
       
      constant voltage is the voltage remains the same and the amperage changes so at infinite resistance there is no elecron flow and with no resistance an infinite amperage flows.
       
      So no they are not the same, they are in fact in my opinion complete opposites.
       
       
       
       
      From: Saber
      Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 12:16 AM
      Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Is a VDG just a DC HV low current source?
       
       

      Hi, I have been wondering this a lot for along time now. it is the "nature" of the VDG output.

      Is a VDG Output EXACTLY similar to a high voltage from a typical HV transformer, (Of course a HV coil-transformer would have a time- varying output(not dc) and a higher current). But is that the only difference? so If we pulse the output of a VDG would it be just like a HV transformer output except lower curent?

      Thanx

    • Saber
      hmm, that sounds a little confusing, I always thought these two must be different in some way, but how, I didnt know.. so let me see, if we were to power
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 1, 2013
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        hmm, that sounds a little confusing, I always thought these two must be different in some way, but how, I didnt know.. so let me see, if we were to power anything with a vdg, the results would be far different from "similarly outputting" transformer

        --- In VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com, "Elmer Wiersma" <elmerwiersma@...> wrote:
        >
        > The VDG is a constant current output and the transformer is a constant voltage output.
        >
        > constant current means an infinite voltage with infinite resistance but also an infinite small voltage if the current is short circuited but always a constant supply of electrons
        >
        > constant voltage is the voltage remains the same and the amperage changes so at infinite resistance there is no elecron flow and with no resistance an infinite amperage flows.
        >
        > So no they are not the same, they are in fact in my opinion complete opposites.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > From: Saber
        > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 12:16 AM
        > To: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Is a VDG just a DC HV low current source?
        >
        >
        > Hi, I have been wondering this a lot for along time now. it is the "nature" of the VDG output.
        >
        > Is a VDG Output EXACTLY similar to a high voltage from a typical HV transformer, (Of course a HV coil-transformer would have a time- varying output(not dc) and a higher current). But is that the only difference? so If we pulse the output of a VDG would it be just like a HV transformer output except lower curent?
        >
        > Thanx
        >
      • Elmer Wiersma
        with exactly the same output as voltage and current the vdg and transformer will function the same but you cannot ask more current from a vdg without
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 2, 2013
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          with exactly the same output as voltage and current the vdg and transformer will function the same
          but you cannot ask more current from a vdg without sacrificing voltage
          and a transformer cannot reach the high voltages a vdg can without some really serious engineering
           
          From: Saber
          Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 12:56 AM
          Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Re: Is a VDG just a DC HV low current source?
           
           

          hmm, that sounds a little confusing, I always thought these two must be different in some way, but how, I didnt know.. so let me see, if we were to power anything with a vdg, the results would be far different from "similarly outputting" transformer

          --- In mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator%40yahoogroups.com, "Elmer Wiersma" <elmerwiersma@...> wrote:

          >
          > The VDG is a
          constant current output and the transformer is a constant voltage output.
          >
          > constant current means an infinite voltage with
          infinite resistance but also an infinite small voltage if the current is short circuited but always a constant supply of electrons
          >
          > constant
          voltage is the voltage remains the same and the amperage changes so at infinite resistance there is no elecron flow and with no resistance an infinite amperage flows.
          >
          > So no they are not the same, they are in fact in my
          opinion complete opposites.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > From:
          Saber
          > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 12:16 AM
          > To:
          href="mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator%40yahoogroups.com">mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator%40yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Is a VDG just a DC HV low current
          source?
          >
          >
          > Hi, I have been wondering this a lot for along
          time now. it is the "nature" of the VDG output.
          >
          > Is a VDG Output
          EXACTLY similar to a high voltage from a typical HV transformer, (Of course a HV coil-transformer would have a time- varying output(not dc) and a higher current). But is that the only difference? so If we pulse the output of a VDG would it be just like a HV transformer output except lower curent?
          >
          > Thanx
          >

        • Saber
          Thank you. , so with same output in voltage and current they are basically the same until we pull more current out of VDG, that description is of course
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 20, 2013
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            Thank you. , so with same output in voltage and current they are basically the same until we pull more current out of VDG, that description is of course clear. and the only reason I want to use a vDG is that I can get pretty high voltages without any difficulty, altho some mechanical stuff like pullies come in.

            in any case for example, operating a transformer at 10,000V and 5mA, and suddenly ask for 10,000V and 10mA from it, it will NOT decrease the voltage! simply because the fact that the true maximum wattage power of the transformer is 10000vx0,01a so we can regulate this reserve of power in voltages and current as we wish. But, in a VDG we cannot regulate current without always killing the voltage.
            so the difference really lies in that we cant regulate the power of the VDG, did I understand now?

            (btw my original question was just if there was some mysterious difference in the nature of a Static Machine-voltage output it self rather than a Transformer)
            thanx
            --- In VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com, "Elmer Wiersma" <elmerwiersma@...> wrote:
            >
            > with exactly the same output as voltage and current the vdg and transformer will function the same
            > but you cannot ask more current from a vdg without sacrificing voltage
            > and a transformer cannot reach the high voltages a vdg can without some really serious engineering
            >
            > From: Saber
            > Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 12:56 AM
            > To: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Re: Is a VDG just a DC HV low current source?
            >
            >
            > hmm, that sounds a little confusing, I always thought these two must be different in some way, but how, I didnt know.. so let me see, if we were to power anything with a vdg, the results would be far different from "similarly outputting" transformer
            >
            > --- In mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator%40yahoogroups.com, "Elmer Wiersma" <elmerwiersma@> wrote:
            > >
            > > The VDG is a constant current output and the transformer is a constant voltage output.
            > >
            > > constant current means an infinite voltage with infinite resistance but also an infinite small voltage if the current is short circuited but always a constant supply of electrons
            > >
            > > constant voltage is the voltage remains the same and the amperage changes so at infinite resistance there is no elecron flow and with no resistance an infinite amperage flows.
            > >
            > > So no they are not the same, they are in fact in my opinion complete opposites.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > From: Saber
            > > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 12:16 AM
            > > To: mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator%40yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Is a VDG just a DC HV low current source?
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi, I have been wondering this a lot for along time now. it is the "nature" of the VDG output.
            > >
            > > Is a VDG Output EXACTLY similar to a high voltage from a typical HV transformer, (Of course a HV coil-transformer would have a time- varying output(not dc) and a higher current). But is that the only difference? so If we pulse the output of a VDG would it be just like a HV transformer output except lower curent?
            > >
            > > Thanx
            > >
            >
          • Antonio
            ... There are many differences between an electrostatic generator and a transformer. Essentially: - Transformers can only produce alternating voltages and
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 20, 2013
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              --- In VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com, "Saber" <leviterande@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thank you. , so with same output in voltage and current they are basically the same until we pull more current out of VDG, that description is of course clear. and the only reason I want to use a vDG is that I can get pretty high voltages without any difficulty, altho some mechanical stuff like pullies come in.
              >
              > in any case for example, operating a transformer at 10,000V and 5mA, and suddenly ask for 10,000V and 10mA from it, it will NOT decrease the voltage! simply because the fact that the true maximum wattage power of the transformer is 10000vx0,01a so we can regulate this reserve of power in voltages and current as we wish. But, in a VDG we cannot regulate current without always killing the voltage.
              > so the difference really lies in that we cant regulate the power of the VDG, did I understand now?

              There are many differences between an electrostatic generator and a transformer. Essentially:
              - Transformers can only produce alternating voltages and currents, while electrostatic generators produce continuous voltages and currents.
              - Transformers require electrical power input, that they transform to generate their output, ideally keeping the power. If you ask for more current, the input current rises in the same proportion. Electrostatic generators separate electrical charges mechanically, using mechanical power input. If you ask for more current, you have to apply greater mechanical power.
              - In any kind of electrical generator, if you increase the output current the output voltage drops. The amount of drop is the value of the current multiplied by the output impedance of the generator. Usual transformers have low output impedances. Usual electrostatic generators have high output impedances.

              Antonio Carlos M. de Queiroz
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