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Hello New Mmeber Here

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  • jeremiah.alger
    Hey everyone, I think it is really great there is a group like this...I am pretty new to all of this and wanted to ask a question. I am in the middle of
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 13, 2008
      Hey everyone,

      I think it is really great there is a group like this...I am pretty
      new to all of this and wanted to ask a question. I am in the middle of
      building my Van de Graaff Generator and I am having a lot of trouble
      keeping my belt on track. I am using two wheels from an RC car at the
      hobby shop and it has an outer edge on both sides. Even with the edge
      the band is overlapping on itself and eventually comes off. So that's
      it for now but once again thank you for all the pictures and great
      ideas...my daughter and I are really enjoying this project.

      Jeremiah
    • Richard Linder
      Jeremiah: Hi and welcome. I think rollers with retention edges are nothing but trouble because they do not do what one might hope, and that is to prevent
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 13, 2008

        Jeremiah: Hi and welcome.  I think rollers with “retention edges” are nothing but trouble because they do not do what one might hope, and that is to prevent the belt from misbehaving.

         

        The proper design roller will have a crown. That is to say the diameter of the roller in the center of the roller will be larger than the two diameters at each end. Assuming the belt is properly aligned with the roller, the belt will run true. Why does this work? Because for the belt to run off the roller, its edge must stretch to  creep over the larger center diameter and it does not want to do that.  The optimum amount of crown (center diameter minus the end diameter) will depend on the stretchiness of the belt material. For example if the belt material is absolutely non stretch then any amount of crowning will not work. This is because the belt will not conform to the crown. The other extreme is if the belt is very stretchy. This material would require a significant amount of crown because a stretchy belt will easily stretch enough to creep over a minimal  amount of crowning. My own experience is with minimal stretch vinyl impregnated nylon. The amount of crowning on my rollers is minimal. Keep in mind that a belt made of this material will require a run-in to shape the  belt so it will assume the shape of the roller crown. In reality, the belt will stretch a bit to accommodate the curved shape of the roller surface. 

         

        Be advised  that my experience is with a 6” wide belt and a separation between rollers of several feet. The difference between the diameters is approximately between .060” and .100” ….not very much!    I would suspect tracking with smaller VDGs might be somewhat less fussy. In any case, if your design can include some sort of fine adjustment of belt tension and roller tilt, the alignment might be more easily accomplished. If you look at my pictures you will see the tension and tilt adjustment screws I have incorporated. Even if you simply employ shims to adjust the tilt, once you have succeeded, you will probably never have to readjust the tilt. Breaking in a no stretch belt can be very frustrating because at first it will seem that there is no  sweet spot but eventually, as the belt assumes a bit of a curve, things will begin to behave.

         

        Hope this helps.

        Dick Linder


        From: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com [mailto: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of jeremiah.alger
        Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 8:45 AM
        To: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Hello New Mmeber Here

         

        Hey everyone,

        I think it is really great there is a group like this...I am pretty
        new to all of this and wanted to ask a question. I am in the middle of
        building my Van de Graaff Generator and I am having a lot of trouble
        keeping my belt on track. I am using two wheels from an RC car at the
        hobby shop and it has an outer edge on both sides. Even with the edge
        the band is overlapping on itself and eventually comes off. So that's
        it for now but once again thank you for all the pictures and great
        ideas...my daughter and I are really enjoying this project.

        Jeremiah

      • jeremiah.alger
        Thank you so much for your response, it was extremely helpful. Its funny but you would think that the retention edges would help, but you are exactly right
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 15, 2008
          Thank you so much for your response, it was extremely helpful. Its
          funny but you would think that the "retention edges" would help, but
          you are exactly right the crown does the trick! I was also wondering
          about paint...for the dome(two metal bowls)as well as the pvc pipe
          that the belt travels in...any recommendations or would this be a bad
          idea. Thanks again Richard.

          Jeremiah



          --- In VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Linder"
          <linder@...> wrote:
          >
          > Jeremiah: Hi and welcome. I think rollers with "retention edges" are
          > nothing but trouble because they do not do what one might hope, and
          that is
          > to prevent the belt from misbehaving.
          >
          >
          >
          > The proper design roller will have a crown. That is to say the
          diameter of
          > the roller in the center of the roller will be larger than the two
          diameters
          > at each end. Assuming the belt is properly aligned with the roller,
          the belt
          > will run true. Why does this work? Because for the belt to run off the
          > roller, its edge must stretch to creep over the larger center
          diameter and
          > it does not want to do that. The optimum amount of crown (center
          diameter
          > minus the end diameter) will depend on the stretchiness of the belt
          > material. For example if the belt material is absolutely non stretch
          then
          > any amount of crowning will not work. This is because the belt will not
          > conform to the crown. The other extreme is if the belt is very stretchy.
          > This material would require a significant amount of crown because a
          stretchy
          > belt will easily stretch enough to creep over a minimal amount of
          crowning.
          > My own experience is with minimal stretch vinyl impregnated nylon. The
          > amount of crowning on my rollers is minimal. Keep in mind that a
          belt made
          > of this material will require a run-in to shape the belt so it will
          assume
          > the shape of the roller crown. In reality, the belt will stretch a
          bit to
          > accommodate the curved shape of the roller surface.
          >
          >
          >
          > Be advised that my experience is with a 6" wide belt and a separation
          > between rollers of several feet. The difference between the diameters is
          > approximately between .060" and .100" ..not very much! I would
          suspect
          > tracking with smaller VDGs might be somewhat less fussy. In any case, if
          > your design can include some sort of fine adjustment of belt tension and
          > roller tilt, the alignment might be more easily accomplished. If you
          look at
          > my pictures you will see the tension and tilt adjustment screws I have
          > incorporated. Even if you simply employ shims to adjust the tilt,
          once you
          > have succeeded, you will probably never have to readjust the tilt.
          Breaking
          > in a no stretch belt can be very frustrating because at first it
          will seem
          > that there is no sweet spot but eventually, as the belt assumes a
          bit of a
          > curve, things will begin to behave.
          >
          >
          >
          > Hope this helps.
          >
          > Dick Linder
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          jeremiah.alger
          > Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 8:45 AM
          > To: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Hello New Mmeber Here
          >
          >
          >
          > Hey everyone,
          >
          > I think it is really great there is a group like this...I am pretty
          > new to all of this and wanted to ask a question. I am in the middle of
          > building my Van de Graaff Generator and I am having a lot of trouble
          > keeping my belt on track. I am using two wheels from an RC car at the
          > hobby shop and it has an outer edge on both sides. Even with the edge
          > the band is overlapping on itself and eventually comes off. So that's
          > it for now but once again thank you for all the pictures and great
          > ideas...my daughter and I are really enjoying this project.
          >
          > Jeremiah
          >
        • Richard Linder
          Jeremiah: So glad to be of some help. The most important thing with the top terminal is the smoother the better. Paint will not improve anything but might
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 16, 2008

            Jeremiah:  So glad to be of some help.   The most important thing with the top terminal is the smoother the better. Paint will not improve anything but might surely degrade the performance. Same goes with the column, The VDG is a very high impedance source of voltage and because of its high impedance any leakage (current) to ground will lower the voltage capability of the VDG. Mot plastics are good insulators at “normal” voltages but when we are talking about voltages in the hundreds of thousands and source impedances of  thousands of megohms all plastics are not good insulators. PVC has been used by lots of folks with success. If anyone has contrary experience maybe you will hear from them. No matter what you wind up with for a column, keep it clean. I use liquid ammonia soap, available in most hardware stores. Works great !

             

             

             Best wishes, Dick Linder

             


            From: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com [mailto: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of jeremiah.alger
            Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 8:38 AM
            To: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Re: Hello New Member Here

             

            Thank you so much for your response, it was extremely helpful. Its
            funny but you would think that the "retention edges" would help, but
            you are exactly right the crown does the trick! I was also wondering
            about paint...for the dome(two metal bowls)as well as the pvc pipe
            that the belt travels in...any recommendations or would this be a bad
            idea. Thanks again Richard.

            Jeremiah

            --- In VanDeGraaffGenerato r@yahoogroups. com, "Richard Linder"
            <linder@...> wrote:

            >
            > Jeremiah: Hi and welcome. I think rollers with "retention edges"
            are
            > nothing but trouble because they do not do what one might hope, and
            that is
            > to prevent the belt from misbehaving.
            >
            >
            >
            > The proper design roller will have a crown. That is to say the
            diameter of
            > the roller in the center of the roller will be larger than the two
            diameters
            > at each end. Assuming the belt is properly aligned with the roller,
            the belt
            > will run true. Why does this work? Because for the belt to run off the
            > roller, its edge must stretch to creep over the larger center
            diameter and
            > it does not want to do that. The optimum amount of crown (center
            diameter
            > minus the end diameter) will depend on the stretchiness of the belt
            > material. For example if the belt material is absolutely non stretch
            then
            > any amount of crowning will not work. This is because the belt will not
            > conform to the crown. The other extreme is if the belt is very stretchy.
            > This material would require a significant amount of crown because a
            stretchy
            > belt will easily stretch enough to creep over a minimal amount of
            crowning.
            > My own experience is with minimal stretch vinyl impregnated nylon. The
            > amount of crowning on my rollers is minimal. Keep in mind that a
            belt made
            > of this material will require a run-in to shape the belt so it will
            assume
            > the shape of the roller crown. In reality, the belt will stretch a
            bit to
            > accommodate the curved shape of the roller surface.
            >
            >
            >
            > Be advised that my experience is with a 6" wide belt and a separation
            > between rollers of several feet. The difference between the diameters is
            > approximately between .060" and .100" ..not very much! I would
            suspect
            > tracking with smaller VDGs might be somewhat less fussy. In any case, if
            > your design can include some sort of fine adjustment of belt tension and
            > roller tilt, the alignment might be more easily accomplished. If you
            look at
            > my pictures you will see the tension and tilt adjustment screws I have
            > incorporated. Even if you simply employ shims to adjust the tilt,
            once you
            > have succeeded, you will probably never have to readjust the tilt.
            Breaking
            > in a no stretch belt can be very frustrating because at first it
            will seem
            > that there is no sweet spot but eventually, as the belt assumes a
            bit of a
            > curve, things will begin to behave.
            >
            >
            >
            > Hope this helps.
            >
            > Dick Linder
            >
            > _____
            >
            > From: VanDeGraaffGenerato r@yahoogroups. com
            > [mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerato r@yahoogroups. com]
            On Behalf Of
            jeremiah.alger
            > Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 8:45 AM
            > To: VanDeGraaffGenerato r@yahoogroups. com
            > Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerat or] Hello New Mmeber Here
            >
            >
            >
            > Hey everyone,
            >
            > I think it is really great there is a group like this...I am pretty
            > new to all of this and wanted to ask a question. I am in the middle of
            > building my Van de Graaff Generator and I am having a lot of trouble
            > keeping my belt on track. I am using two wheels from an RC car at the
            > hobby shop and it has an outer edge on both sides. Even with the edge
            > the band is overlapping on itself and eventually comes off. So that's
            > it for now but once again thank you for all the pictures and great
            > ideas...my daughter and I are really enjoying this project.
            >
            > Jeremiah
            >

          • Trevor Hannam
            Hi Richard and Jeremiah I have had some problems at home and have not been able to talk to anyone for some time but now I am back. Re your comment Dick about
            Message 5 of 11 , Oct 20, 2008

              Hi Richard and Jeremiah

               

              I have had some problems at home and have not been able to talk to anyone for some time but now I am back.

               

              Re your comment Dick about paint. I believe you and I spoke of this some time back about the dome I had which was badly pitted. I had to use this as I could not get another. I used cold galvanizing paint, sanded it, resprayed, sanded and did it again. I ended up with a nice finish that was grey in colour.

              The VDG still produced 18” sparks – It appears you can use paint – Sorry Dick – but must be conductive. I believe the zinc or galv in the paint has done the trick. This paint has 90% metal in it and seems so far to be a good paint to coat steel metal balls, however I believe as Dick says, there must be a lot of losses though.

               

              What do you think Dick?

              Trevor

               

              From: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com [mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Linder
              Sent: Friday, 17 October 2008 6:35 AM
              To: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Re: Hello New Member Here

               

              Jeremiah:  So glad to be of some help.   The most important thing with the top terminal is the smoother the better. Paint will not improve anything but might surely degrade the performance. Same goes with the column, The VDG is a very high impedance source of voltage and because of its high impedance any leakage (current) to ground will lower the voltage capability of the VDG. Mot plastics are good insulators at “normal” voltages but when we are talking about voltages in the hundreds of thousands and source impedances of  thousands of megohms all plastics are not good insulators. PVC has been used by lots of folks with success. If anyone has contrary experience maybe you will hear from them. No matter what you wind up with for a column, keep it clean. I use liquid ammonia soap, available in most hardware stores. Works great !

               

               

               Best wishes, Dick Linder

               


              From: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com [mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jeremiah.alger
              Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 8:38 AM
              To: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Re: Hello New Member Here

               

              Thank you so much for your response, it was extremely helpful. Its
              funny but you would think that the "retention edges" would help, but
              you are exactly right the crown does the trick! I was also wondering
              about paint...for the dome(two metal bowls)as well as the pvc pipe
              that the belt travels in...any recommendations or would this be a bad
              idea. Thanks again Richard.

              Jeremiah

              --- In VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Linder"
              <linder@...> wrote:

              >
              > Jeremiah: Hi and welcome. I think rollers with "retention edges"
              are
              > nothing but trouble because they do not do what one might hope, and
              that is
              > to prevent the belt from misbehaving.
              >
              >
              >
              > The proper design roller will have a crown. That is to say the
              diameter of
              > the roller in the center of the roller will be larger than the two
              diameters
              > at each end. Assuming the belt is properly aligned with the roller,
              the belt
              > will run true. Why does this work? Because for the belt to run off the
              > roller, its edge must stretch to creep over the larger center
              diameter and
              > it does not want to do that. The optimum amount of crown (center
              diameter
              > minus the end diameter) will depend on the stretchiness of the belt
              > material. For example if the belt material is absolutely non stretch
              then
              > any amount of crowning will not work. This is because the belt will not
              > conform to the crown. The other extreme is if the belt is very stretchy.
              > This material would require a significant amount of crown because a
              stretchy
              > belt will easily stretch enough to creep over a minimal amount of
              crowning.
              > My own experience is with minimal stretch vinyl impregnated nylon. The
              > amount of crowning on my rollers is minimal. Keep in mind that a
              belt made
              > of this material will require a run-in to shape the belt so it will
              assume
              > the shape of the roller crown. In reality, the belt will stretch a
              bit to
              > accommodate the curved shape of the roller surface.
              >
              >
              >
              > Be advised that my experience is with a 6" wide belt and a separation
              > between rollers of several feet. The difference between the diameters is
              > approximately between .060" and .100" ..not very much! I would
              suspect
              > tracking with smaller VDGs might be somewhat less fussy. In any case, if
              > your design can include some sort of fine adjustment of belt tension and
              > roller tilt, the alignment might be more easily accomplished. If you
              look at
              > my pictures you will see the tension and tilt adjustment screws I have
              > incorporated. Even if you simply employ shims to adjust the tilt,
              once you
              > have succeeded, you will probably never have to readjust the tilt.
              Breaking
              > in a no stretch belt can be very frustrating because at first it
              will seem
              > that there is no sweet spot but eventually, as the belt assumes a
              bit of a
              > curve, things will begin to behave.
              >
              >
              >
              > Hope this helps.
              >
              > Dick Linder
              >
              > _____
              >
              > From: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com]
              On Behalf Of
              jeremiah.alger
              > Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 8:45 AM
              > To: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Hello New Mmeber Here
              >
              >
              >
              > Hey everyone,
              >
              > I think it is really great there is a group like this...I am pretty
              > new to all of this and wanted to ask a question. I am in the middle of
              > building my Van de Graaff Generator and I am having a lot of trouble
              > keeping my belt on track. I am using two wheels from an RC car at the
              > hobby shop and it has an outer edge on both sides. Even with the edge
              > the band is overlapping on itself and eventually comes off. So that's
              > it for now but once again thank you for all the pictures and great
              > ideas...my daughter and I are really enjoying this project.
              >
              > Jeremiah
              >

               

              No virus found in this incoming message.
              Checked by AVG.
              Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1724 - Release Date: 14/10/2008 2:02 AM


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              Checked by AVG.
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            • Richard Linder
              Trevor: I suppose I should have been more specific. Of course you can paint the dome but you have to wind up with the same (or better) smooth surface that you
              Message 6 of 11 , Oct 20, 2008

                Trevor:

                 

                I suppose I should have been more specific. Of course you can paint the dome but you have to wind up with the same (or better)  smooth surface that you started with otherwise you will diminish performance. And, of course if you achieve this good surface, conductive paint will be OK.  . As far as the column is concerned there is nothing that you can ADD to the surface to raise the resistance of the path from the dome end to the  grounded end. Anything you add to the surface of the column will effectively be a parallel resistance and Ohm’s law will prevail.

                 

                Dick

                 


                From: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com [mailto: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Trevor Hannam
                Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 5:00 AM
                To: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Re: Hello New Member Here

                 

                Hi Richard and Jeremiah

                 

                I have had some problems at home and have not been able to talk to anyone for some time but now I am back.

                 

                Re your comment Dick about paint. I believe you and I spoke of this some time back about the dome I had which was badly pitted. I had to use this as I could not get another. I used cold galvanizing paint, sanded it, resprayed, sanded and did it again. I ended up with a nice finish that was grey in colour.

                The VDG still produced 18” sparks – It appears you can use paint – Sorry Dick – but must be conductive. I believe the zinc or galv in the paint has done the trick. This paint has 90% metal in it and seems so far to be a good paint to coat steel metal balls, however I believe as Dick says, there must be a lot of losses though.

                 

                What do you think Dick?

                Trevor

                 

                From: VanDeGraaffGenerato r@yahoogroups. com [mailto: VanDeGraaff Generator@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Richard Linder
                Sent: Friday, 17 October 2008 6:35 AM
                To: VanDeGraaffGenerato r@yahoogroups. com
                Subject: RE: [VanDeGraaffGenerat or] Re: Hello New Member Here

                 

                Jeremiah:  So glad to be of some help.   The most important thing with the top terminal is the smoother the better. Paint will not improve anything but might surely degrade the performance. Same goes with the column, The VDG is a very high impedance source of voltage and because of its high impedance any leakage (current) to ground will lower the voltage capability of the VDG. Mot plastics are good insulators at “normal” voltages but when we are talking about voltages in the hundreds of thousands and source impedances of  thousands of megohms all plastics are not good insulators. PVC has been used by lots of folks with success. If anyone has contrary experience maybe you will hear from them. No matter what you wind up with for a column, keep it clean. I use liquid ammonia soap, available in most hardware stores. Works great !

                 

                 

                 Best wishes, Dick Linder

                 


                From: VanDeGraaffGenerato r@yahoogroups. com [mailto: VanDeGraaff Generator@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of jeremiah.alger
                Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 8:38 AM
                To: VanDeGraaffGenerato r@yahoogroups. com
                Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerat or] Re: Hello New Member Here

                 

                Thank you so much for your response, it was extremely helpful. Its
                funny but you would think that the "retention edges" would help, but
                you are exactly right the crown does the trick! I was also wondering
                about paint...for the dome(two metal bowls)as well as the pvc pipe
                that the belt travels in...any recommendations or would this be a bad
                idea. Thanks again Richard.

                Jeremiah

                --- In VanDeGraaffGenerato r@yahoogroups. com, "Richard Linder"
                <linder@...> wrote:

                >
                > Jeremiah: Hi and welcome. I think rollers with "retention edges"
                are
                > nothing but trouble because they do not do what one might hope, and
                that is
                > to prevent the belt from misbehaving.
                >
                >
                >
                > The proper design roller will have a crown. That is to say the
                diameter of
                > the roller in the center of the roller will be larger than the two
                diameters
                > at each end. Assuming the belt is properly aligned with the roller,
                the belt
                > will run true. Why does this work? Because for the belt to run off the
                > roller, its edge must stretch to creep over the larger center
                diameter and
                > it does not want to do that. The optimum amount of crown (center
                diameter
                > minus the end diameter) will depend on the stretchiness of the belt
                > material. For example if the belt material is absolutely non stretch
                then
                > any amount of crowning will not work. This is because the belt will not
                > conform to the crown. The other extreme is if the belt is very stretchy.
                > This material would require a significant amount of crown because a
                stretchy
                > belt will easily stretch enough to creep over a minimal amount of
                crowning.
                > My own experience is with minimal stretch vinyl impregnated nylon. The
                > amount of crowning on my rollers is minimal. Keep in mind that a
                belt made
                > of this material will require a run-in to shape the belt so it will
                assume
                > the shape of the roller crown. In reality, the belt will stretch a
                bit to
                > accommodate the curved shape of the roller surface.
                >
                >
                >
                > Be advised that my experience is with a 6" wide belt and a separation
                > between rollers of several feet. The difference between the diameters is
                > approximately between .060" and .100" ..not very much! I would
                suspect
                > tracking with smaller VDGs might be somewhat less fussy. In any case, if
                > your design can include some sort of fine adjustment of belt tension and
                > roller tilt, the alignment might be more easily accomplished. If you
                look at
                > my pictures you will see the tension and tilt adjustment screws I have
                > incorporated. Even if you simply employ shims to adjust the tilt,
                once you
                > have succeeded, you will probably never have to readjust the tilt.
                Breaking
                > in a no stretch belt can be very frustrating because at first it
                will seem
                > that there is no sweet spot but eventually, as the belt assumes a
                bit of a
                > curve, things will begin to behave.
                >
                >
                >
                > Hope this helps.
                >
                > Dick Linder
                >
                > _____
                >
                > From: VanDeGraaffGenerato r@yahoogroups. com
                > [mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerato r@yahoogroups. com]
                On Behalf Of
                jeremiah.alger
                > Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 8:45 AM
                > To: VanDeGraaffGenerato r@yahoogroups. com
                > Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerat or] Hello New Mmeber Here
                >
                >
                >
                > Hey everyone,
                >
                > I think it is really great there is a group like this...I am pretty
                > new to all of this and wanted to ask a question. I am in the middle of
                > building my Van de Graaff Generator and I am having a lot of trouble
                > keeping my belt on track. I am using two wheels from an RC car at the
                > hobby shop and it has an outer edge on both sides. Even with the edge
                > the band is overlapping on itself and eventually comes off. So that's
                > it for now but once again thank you for all the pictures and great
                > ideas...my daughter and I are really enjoying this project.
                >
                > Jeremiah
                >

                 

                No virus found in this incoming message.
                Checked by AVG.
                Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1724 - Release Date: 14/10/2008 2:02 AM

                 

                No virus found in this outgoing message.
                Checked by AVG.
                Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.1/1733 - Release Date: 19/10/2008 6:02 PM

              • jeremiah.alger
                Richard and Trevor, Thanks guys for all your help! I fired up my VDG last night and it made about 1 inch and a half to 2 inch sparks. My hair on my arms stood
                Message 7 of 11 , Oct 23, 2008
                  Richard and Trevor,

                  Thanks guys for all your help! I fired up my VDG last night and it
                  made about 1 inch and a half to 2 inch sparks. My hair on my arms
                  stood up easily, however my hair on my head did not. I read that
                  grounding the bottom comb would increase performance as well as
                  keeping it clean...any suggestions? I am by no means an electrician so
                  I am not sure what to ground the bottom comb to. Also I am using a
                  sowing machine motor and it has no switch for off and on...if I bought
                  one or even a dimer to control the speed, how would I go about
                  attaching this to the motor. Sorry about all the questions, I really
                  appreciate the help...I can now see why you guys enjoy doing stuff
                  like this...its addictive. I cannot wait to get to the next project!

                  Jeremiah
                  PS I will posting some pictures of my endeavor soon...thanks again!


                  --- In VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com, "Trevor Hannam"
                  <trev.kay@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Richard and Jeremiah
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I have had some problems at home and have not been able to talk to
                  anyone
                  > for some time but now I am back.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Re your comment Dick about paint. I believe you and I spoke of this some
                  > time back about the dome I had which was badly pitted. I had to use
                  this as
                  > I could not get another. I used cold galvanizing paint, sanded it,
                  > resprayed, sanded and did it again. I ended up with a nice finish
                  that was
                  > grey in colour.
                  >
                  > The VDG still produced 18" sparks – It appears you can use paint – Sorry
                  > Dick – but must be conductive. I believe the zinc or galv in the
                  paint has
                  > done the trick. This paint has 90% metal in it and seems so far to
                  be a good
                  > paint to coat steel metal balls, however I believe as Dick says,
                  there must
                  > be a lot of losses though.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > What do you think Dick?
                  >
                  > Trevor
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > From: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard
                  Linder
                  > Sent: Friday, 17 October 2008 6:35 AM
                  > To: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: RE: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Re: Hello New Member Here
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Jeremiah: So glad to be of some help. The most important thing
                  with the
                  > top terminal is the smoother the better. Paint will not improve
                  anything but
                  > might surely degrade the performance. Same goes with the column, The
                  VDG is
                  > a very high impedance source of voltage and because of its high
                  impedance
                  > any leakage (current) to ground will lower the voltage capability of the
                  > VDG. Mot plastics are good insulators at "normal" voltages but when
                  we are
                  > talking about voltages in the hundreds of thousands and source
                  impedances of
                  > thousands of megohms all plastics are not good insulators. PVC has
                  been used
                  > by lots of folks with success. If anyone has contrary experience
                  maybe you
                  > will hear from them. No matter what you wind up with for a column,
                  keep it
                  > clean. I use liquid ammonia soap, available in most hardware stores.
                  Works
                  > great !
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Best wishes, Dick Linder
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > _____
                  >
                  > From: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  jeremiah.alger
                  > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 8:38 AM
                  > To: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Re: Hello New Member Here
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Thank you so much for your response, it was extremely helpful. Its
                  > funny but you would think that the "retention edges" would help, but
                  > you are exactly right the crown does the trick! I was also wondering
                  > about paint...for the dome(two metal bowls)as well as the pvc pipe
                  > that the belt travels in...any recommendations or would this be a bad
                  > idea. Thanks again Richard.
                  >
                  > Jeremiah
                  >
                  > --- In HYPERLINK
                  >
                  "mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator%40yahoogroups.com"VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogro
                  > ups.com, "Richard Linder"
                  > <linder@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Jeremiah: Hi and welcome. I think rollers with "retention edges" are
                  > > nothing but trouble because they do not do what one might hope, and
                  > that is
                  > > to prevent the belt from misbehaving.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > The proper design roller will have a crown. That is to say the
                  > diameter of
                  > > the roller in the center of the roller will be larger than the two
                  > diameters
                  > > at each end. Assuming the belt is properly aligned with the roller,
                  > the belt
                  > > will run true. Why does this work? Because for the belt to run off the
                  > > roller, its edge must stretch to creep over the larger center
                  > diameter and
                  > > it does not want to do that. The optimum amount of crown (center
                  > diameter
                  > > minus the end diameter) will depend on the stretchiness of the belt
                  > > material. For example if the belt material is absolutely non stretch
                  > then
                  > > any amount of crowning will not work. This is because the belt
                  will not
                  > > conform to the crown. The other extreme is if the belt is very
                  stretchy.
                  > > This material would require a significant amount of crown because a
                  > stretchy
                  > > belt will easily stretch enough to creep over a minimal amount of
                  > crowning.
                  > > My own experience is with minimal stretch vinyl impregnated nylon. The
                  > > amount of crowning on my rollers is minimal. Keep in mind that a
                  > belt made
                  > > of this material will require a run-in to shape the belt so it will
                  > assume
                  > > the shape of the roller crown. In reality, the belt will stretch a
                  > bit to
                  > > accommodate the curved shape of the roller surface.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Be advised that my experience is with a 6" wide belt and a separation
                  > > between rollers of several feet. The difference between the
                  diameters is
                  > > approximately between .060" and .100" ..not very much! I would
                  > suspect
                  > > tracking with smaller VDGs might be somewhat less fussy. In any
                  case, if
                  > > your design can include some sort of fine adjustment of belt
                  tension and
                  > > roller tilt, the alignment might be more easily accomplished. If you
                  > look at
                  > > my pictures you will see the tension and tilt adjustment screws I have
                  > > incorporated. Even if you simply employ shims to adjust the tilt,
                  > once you
                  > > have succeeded, you will probably never have to readjust the tilt.
                  > Breaking
                  > > in a no stretch belt can be very frustrating because at first it
                  > will seem
                  > > that there is no sweet spot but eventually, as the belt assumes a
                  > bit of a
                  > > curve, things will begin to behave.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hope this helps.
                  > >
                  > > Dick Linder
                  > >
                  > > _____
                  > >
                  > > From: HYPERLINK
                  >
                  "mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator%40yahoogroups.com"VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogro
                  > ups.com
                  > > [mailto:HYPERLINK
                  >
                  "mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator%40yahoogroups.com"VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogro
                  > ups.com] On Behalf Of
                  > jeremiah.alger
                  > > Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 8:45 AM
                  > > To: HYPERLINK
                  >
                  "mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator%40yahoogroups.com"VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogro
                  > ups.com
                  > > Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Hello New Mmeber Here
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hey everyone,
                  > >
                  > > I think it is really great there is a group like this...I am pretty
                  > > new to all of this and wanted to ask a question. I am in the middle of
                  > > building my Van de Graaff Generator and I am having a lot of trouble
                  > > keeping my belt on track. I am using two wheels from an RC car at the
                  > > hobby shop and it has an outer edge on both sides. Even with the edge
                  > > the band is overlapping on itself and eventually comes off. So that's
                  > > it for now but once again thank you for all the pictures and great
                  > > ideas...my daughter and I are really enjoying this project.
                  > >
                  > > Jeremiah
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > No virus found in this incoming message.
                  > Checked by AVG.
                  > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1724 - Release Date:
                  14/10/2008
                  > 2:02 AM
                  >
                  >
                  > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                  > Checked by AVG.
                  > Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.1/1733 - Release Date:
                  19/10/2008
                  > 6:02 PM
                  >
                • Richard Linder
                  Jeremiah: If your electrical wall outlet was properly installed, the screw which holds the cover plate on can be used as a ground point. If you choose not to
                  Message 8 of 11 , Oct 23, 2008

                    Jeremiah:

                     

                    If your electrical wall outlet was properly installed, the screw which holds the cover plate on can be used as a ground point. If you choose not to fool around with the cover plate, you can run a wire to a water pipe. Just clean up a spot on the pipe with sandpaper,  strip several inches of insulation from one end of the ground wire and wrap the bare end around the pipe. Then you can use a circular clamp or even a tight wrapping of Scotch electrical tape to hold the wire in tight contact with the pipe.  

                     

                    Regarding the motor: the sewing machine motor is probably a “universal” type  (has carbon brushes).  This type of motor can be speed controlled by using a ceiling fan speed control  available in any hardware store. The speed control will have two connection screws or wires. Connect one of the wires from your power plug to one of the connections of the speed control. The other speed control connection connects to one of the motor wires. The other wire from the power plug connects to the other motor wire. There is usually a connection diagram included with the speed control.  Be advised that some VDGs will destroy a solid state speed control due to heavy arcing. I don’t think you are at that level yet but I thought you should be aware of this.

                     

                    Be sure you tape or somehow cover all the connections to the AC line so you don’t accidentally touch a bare connection.

                     

                    Dick

                     


                    From: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com [mailto: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of jeremiah.alger
                    Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 8:45 AM
                    To: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Re: Hello New Member Here

                     

                    Richard and Trevor,

                    Thanks guys for all your help! I fired up my VDG last night and it
                    made about 1 inch and a half to 2 inch sparks. My hair on my arms
                    stood up easily, however my hair on my head did not. I read that
                    grounding the bottom comb would increase performance as well as
                    keeping it clean...any suggestions? I am by no means an electrician so
                    I am not sure what to ground the bottom comb to. Also I am using a
                    sowing machine motor and it has no switch for off and on...if I bought
                    one or even a dimer to control the speed, how would I go about
                    attaching this to the motor. Sorry about all the questions, I really
                    appreciate the help...I can now see why you guys enjoy doing stuff
                    like this...its addictive. I cannot wait to get to the next project!

                    Jeremiah
                    PS I will posting some pictures of my endeavor soon...thanks again!

                    --- In VanDeGraaffGenerato r@yahoogroups. com, "Trevor Hannam"
                    <trev.kay@.. .> wrote:

                    >
                    > Hi Richard and Jeremiah
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I have had some problems at home and have not been able to talk to
                    anyone
                    > for some time but now I am back.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Re your comment Dick about paint. I believe you and I spoke of this some
                    > time back about the dome I had which was badly pitted. I had to use
                    this as
                    > I could not get another. I used cold galvanizing paint, sanded it,
                    > resprayed, sanded and did it again. I ended up with a nice finish
                    that was
                    > grey in colour.
                    >
                    > The VDG still produced 18" sparks – It appears you can use
                    paint – Sorry
                    > Dick – but must be conductive. I believe the zinc or galv in the
                    paint has
                    > done the trick. This paint has 90% metal in it and seems so far to
                    be a good
                    > paint to coat steel metal balls, however I believe as Dick says,
                    there must
                    > be a lot of losses though.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > What do you think Dick?
                    >
                    > Trevor
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > From: VanDeGraaffGenerato r@yahoogroups. com
                    > [mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerato r@yahoogroups. com]
                    On Behalf Of Richard
                    Linder
                    > Sent: Friday, 17 October 2008 6:35 AM
                    > To: VanDeGraaffGenerato r@yahoogroups. com
                    > Subject: RE: [VanDeGraaffGenerat or] Re: Hello New Member Here
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Jeremiah: So glad to be of some help. The most important thing
                    with the
                    > top terminal is the smoother the better. Paint will not improve
                    anything but
                    > might surely degrade the performance. Same goes with the column, The
                    VDG is
                    > a very high impedance source of voltage and because of its high
                    impedance
                    > any leakage (current) to ground will lower the voltage capability of the
                    > VDG. Mot plastics are good insulators at "normal" voltages but
                    when
                    we are
                    > talking about voltages in the hundreds of thousands and source
                    impedances of
                    > thousands of megohms all plastics are not good insulators. PVC has
                    been used
                    > by lots of folks with success. If anyone has contrary experience
                    maybe you
                    > will hear from them. No matter what you wind up with for a column,
                    keep it
                    > clean. I use liquid ammonia soap, available in most hardware stores.
                    Works
                    > great !
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Best wishes, Dick Linder
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > _____
                    >
                    > From: VanDeGraaffGenerato r@yahoogroups. com
                    > [mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerato r@yahoogroups. com]
                    On Behalf Of
                    jeremiah.alger
                    > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 8:38 AM
                    > To: VanDeGraaffGenerato r@yahoogroups. com
                    > Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerat or] Re: Hello New Member Here
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Thank you so much for your response, it was extremely helpful. Its
                    > funny but you would think that the "retention edges" would help,
                    but
                    > you are exactly right the crown does the trick! I was also wondering
                    > about paint...for the dome(two metal bowls)as well as the pvc pipe
                    > that the belt travels in...any recommendations or would this be a bad
                    > idea. Thanks again Richard.
                    >
                    > Jeremiah
                    >
                    > --- In HYPERLINK
                    >
                    "mailto:VanDeGraaff Generator% 40yahoogroups. com"VanDeGraaffG enerator@ yahoogro
                    > ups.com, "Richard Linder"
                    > <linder@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Jeremiah: Hi and welcome. I think rollers with "retention
                    edges" are
                    > > nothing but trouble because they do not do what one might hope, and
                    > that is
                    > > to prevent the belt from misbehaving.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > The proper design roller will have a crown. That is to say the
                    > diameter of
                    > > the roller in the center of the roller will be larger than the two
                    > diameters
                    > > at each end. Assuming the belt is properly aligned with the roller,
                    > the belt
                    > > will run true. Why does this work? Because for the belt to run off
                    the
                    > > roller, its edge must stretch to creep over the larger center
                    > diameter and
                    > > it does not want to do that. The optimum amount of crown (center
                    > diameter
                    > > minus the end diameter) will depend on the stretchiness of the belt
                    > > material. For example if the belt material is absolutely non stretch
                    > then
                    > > any amount of crowning will not work. This is because the belt
                    will not
                    > > conform to the crown. The other extreme is if the belt is very
                    stretchy.
                    > > This material would require a significant amount of crown because a
                    > stretchy
                    > > belt will easily stretch enough to creep over a minimal amount of
                    > crowning.
                    > > My own experience is with minimal stretch vinyl impregnated nylon.
                    The
                    > > amount of crowning on my rollers is minimal. Keep in mind that a
                    > belt made
                    > > of this material will require a run-in to shape the belt so it will
                    > assume
                    > > the shape of the roller crown. In reality, the belt will stretch a
                    > bit to
                    > > accommodate the curved shape of the roller surface.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Be advised that my experience is with a 6" wide belt and a
                    separation
                    > > between rollers of several feet. The difference between the
                    diameters is
                    > > approximately between .060" and .100" ..not very much! I
                    would
                    > suspect
                    > > tracking with smaller VDGs might be somewhat less fussy. In any
                    case, if
                    > > your design can include some sort of fine adjustment of belt
                    tension and
                    > > roller tilt, the alignment might be more easily accomplished. If you
                    > look at
                    > > my pictures you will see the tension and tilt adjustment screws I
                    have
                    > > incorporated. Even if you simply employ shims to adjust the tilt,
                    > once you
                    > > have succeeded, you will probably never have to readjust the tilt.
                    > Breaking
                    > > in a no stretch belt can be very frustrating because at first it
                    > will seem
                    > > that there is no sweet spot but eventually, as the belt assumes a
                    > bit of a
                    > > curve, things will begin to behave.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Hope this helps.
                    > >
                    > > Dick Linder
                    > >
                    > > _____
                    > >
                    > > From: HYPERLINK
                    >
                    "mailto:VanDeGraaff Generator% 40yahoogroups. com"VanDeGraaffG enerator@ yahoogro
                    > ups.com
                    > > [mailto:HYPERLINK
                    >
                    "mailto:VanDeGraaff Generator% 40yahoogroups. com"VanDeGraaffG enerator@ yahoogro
                    > ups.com] On Behalf Of
                    > jeremiah.alger
                    > > Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 8:45 AM
                    > > To: HYPERLINK
                    >
                    "mailto:VanDeGraaff Generator% 40yahoogroups. com"VanDeGraaffG enerator@ yahoogro
                    > ups.com
                    > > Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerat or] Hello New Mmeber Here
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Hey everyone,
                    > >
                    > > I think it is really great there is a group like this...I am pretty
                    > > new to all of this and wanted to ask a question. I am in the middle
                    of
                    > > building my Van de Graaff Generator and I am having a lot of trouble
                    > > keeping my belt on track. I am using two wheels from an RC car at the
                    > > hobby shop and it has an outer edge on both sides. Even with the edge
                    > > the band is overlapping on itself and eventually comes off. So that's
                    > > it for now but once again thank you for all the pictures and great
                    > > ideas...my daughter and I are really enjoying this project.
                    > >
                    > > Jeremiah
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > No virus found in this incoming message.
                    > Checked by AVG.
                    > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1724 - Release Date:
                    14/10/2008
                    > 2:02 AM
                    >
                    >
                    > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                    > Checked by AVG.
                    > Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.1/1733 - Release Date:
                    19/10/2008
                    > 6:02 PM
                    >

                  • jeremiah.alger
                    Dick, Once again you give out great advice! I did what you said and it is working great...we have sparks, raised hair,a rice crispy volcano, etc... My daughter
                    Message 9 of 11 , Oct 23, 2008
                      Dick,

                      Once again you give out great advice! I did what you said and it is
                      working great...we have sparks, raised hair,a rice crispy volcano,
                      etc... My daughter and I are having a blast!

                      Thanks Again
                      Jeremiah


                      --- In VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Linder"
                      <linder@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Jeremiah:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > If your electrical wall outlet was properly installed, the screw
                      which holds
                      > the cover plate on can be used as a ground point. If you choose not
                      to fool
                      > around with the cover plate, you can run a wire to a water pipe.
                      Just clean
                      > up a spot on the pipe with sandpaper, strip several inches of
                      insulation
                      > from one end of the ground wire and wrap the bare end around the
                      pipe. Then
                      > you can use a circular clamp or even a tight wrapping of Scotch
                      electrical
                      > tape to hold the wire in tight contact with the pipe.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Regarding the motor: the sewing machine motor is probably a
                      "universal" type
                      > (has carbon brushes). This type of motor can be speed controlled by
                      using a
                      > ceiling fan speed control available in any hardware store. The speed
                      > control will have two connection screws or wires. Connect one of the
                      wires
                      > from your power plug to one of the connections of the speed control. The
                      > other speed control connection connects to one of the motor wires.
                      The other
                      > wire from the power plug connects to the other motor wire. There is
                      usually
                      > a connection diagram included with the speed control. Be advised
                      that some
                      > VDGs will destroy a solid state speed control due to heavy arcing. I
                      don't
                      > think you are at that level yet but I thought you should be aware of
                      this.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Be sure you tape or somehow cover all the connections to the AC line
                      so you
                      > don't accidentally touch a bare connection.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Dick
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > _____
                      >
                      > From: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
                      > [mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                      jeremiah.alger
                      > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 8:45 AM
                      > To: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Re: Hello New Member Here
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Richard and Trevor,
                      >
                      > Thanks guys for all your help! I fired up my VDG last night and it
                      > made about 1 inch and a half to 2 inch sparks. My hair on my arms
                      > stood up easily, however my hair on my head did not. I read that
                      > grounding the bottom comb would increase performance as well as
                      > keeping it clean...any suggestions? I am by no means an electrician so
                      > I am not sure what to ground the bottom comb to. Also I am using a
                      > sowing machine motor and it has no switch for off and on...if I bought
                      > one or even a dimer to control the speed, how would I go about
                      > attaching this to the motor. Sorry about all the questions, I really
                      > appreciate the help...I can now see why you guys enjoy doing stuff
                      > like this...its addictive. I cannot wait to get to the next project!
                      >
                      > Jeremiah
                      > PS I will posting some pictures of my endeavor soon...thanks again!
                      >
                      > --- In VanDeGraaffGenerato
                      <mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > r@yahoogroups.com, "Trevor Hannam"
                      > <trev.kay@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hi Richard and Jeremiah
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > I have had some problems at home and have not been able to talk to
                      > anyone
                      > > for some time but now I am back.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Re your comment Dick about paint. I believe you and I spoke of
                      this some
                      > > time back about the dome I had which was badly pitted. I had to use
                      > this as
                      > > I could not get another. I used cold galvanizing paint, sanded it,
                      > > resprayed, sanded and did it again. I ended up with a nice finish
                      > that was
                      > > grey in colour.
                      > >
                      > > The VDG still produced 18" sparks - It appears you can use paint -
                      Sorry
                      > > Dick - but must be conductive. I believe the zinc or galv in the
                      > paint has
                      > > done the trick. This paint has 90% metal in it and seems so far to
                      > be a good
                      > > paint to coat steel metal balls, however I believe as Dick says,
                      > there must
                      > > be a lot of losses though.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > What do you think Dick?
                      > >
                      > > Trevor
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > From: VanDeGraaffGenerato
                      <mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > r@yahoogroups.com
                      > > [mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerato
                      > <mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator%40yahoogroups.com> r@yahoogroups.com]
                      On Behalf
                      > Of Richard
                      > Linder
                      > > Sent: Friday, 17 October 2008 6:35 AM
                      > > To: VanDeGraaffGenerato
                      <mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > r@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subject: RE: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Re: Hello New Member Here
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Jeremiah: So glad to be of some help. The most important thing
                      > with the
                      > > top terminal is the smoother the better. Paint will not improve
                      > anything but
                      > > might surely degrade the performance. Same goes with the column, The
                      > VDG is
                      > > a very high impedance source of voltage and because of its high
                      > impedance
                      > > any leakage (current) to ground will lower the voltage capability
                      of the
                      > > VDG. Mot plastics are good insulators at "normal" voltages but when
                      > we are
                      > > talking about voltages in the hundreds of thousands and source
                      > impedances of
                      > > thousands of megohms all plastics are not good insulators. PVC has
                      > been used
                      > > by lots of folks with success. If anyone has contrary experience
                      > maybe you
                      > > will hear from them. No matter what you wind up with for a column,
                      > keep it
                      > > clean. I use liquid ammonia soap, available in most hardware stores.
                      > Works
                      > > great !
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Best wishes, Dick Linder
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > _____
                      > >
                      > > From: VanDeGraaffGenerato
                      <mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > r@yahoogroups.com
                      > > [mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerato
                      > <mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator%40yahoogroups.com> r@yahoogroups.com]
                      On Behalf
                      > Of
                      > jeremiah.alger
                      > > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 8:38 AM
                      > > To: VanDeGraaffGenerato
                      <mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > r@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Re: Hello New Member Here
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Thank you so much for your response, it was extremely helpful. Its
                      > > funny but you would think that the "retention edges" would help, but
                      > > you are exactly right the crown does the trick! I was also wondering
                      > > about paint...for the dome(two metal bowls)as well as the pvc pipe
                      > > that the belt travels in...any recommendations or would this be a bad
                      > > idea. Thanks again Richard.
                      > >
                      > > Jeremiah
                      > >
                      > > --- In HYPERLINK
                      > >
                      >
                      "mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator%40yahoogroups.com"VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogro
                      > > ups.com, "Richard Linder"
                      > > <linder@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Jeremiah: Hi and welcome. I think rollers with "retention edges" are
                      > > > nothing but trouble because they do not do what one might hope, and
                      > > that is
                      > > > to prevent the belt from misbehaving.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > The proper design roller will have a crown. That is to say the
                      > > diameter of
                      > > > the roller in the center of the roller will be larger than the two
                      > > diameters
                      > > > at each end. Assuming the belt is properly aligned with the roller,
                      > > the belt
                      > > > will run true. Why does this work? Because for the belt to run
                      off the
                      > > > roller, its edge must stretch to creep over the larger center
                      > > diameter and
                      > > > it does not want to do that. The optimum amount of crown (center
                      > > diameter
                      > > > minus the end diameter) will depend on the stretchiness of the belt
                      > > > material. For example if the belt material is absolutely non stretch
                      > > then
                      > > > any amount of crowning will not work. This is because the belt
                      > will not
                      > > > conform to the crown. The other extreme is if the belt is very
                      > stretchy.
                      > > > This material would require a significant amount of crown because a
                      > > stretchy
                      > > > belt will easily stretch enough to creep over a minimal amount of
                      > > crowning.
                      > > > My own experience is with minimal stretch vinyl impregnated
                      nylon. The
                      > > > amount of crowning on my rollers is minimal. Keep in mind that a
                      > > belt made
                      > > > of this material will require a run-in to shape the belt so it will
                      > > assume
                      > > > the shape of the roller crown. In reality, the belt will stretch a
                      > > bit to
                      > > > accommodate the curved shape of the roller surface.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Be advised that my experience is with a 6" wide belt and a
                      separation
                      > > > between rollers of several feet. The difference between the
                      > diameters is
                      > > > approximately between .060" and .100" ..not very much! I would
                      > > suspect
                      > > > tracking with smaller VDGs might be somewhat less fussy. In any
                      > case, if
                      > > > your design can include some sort of fine adjustment of belt
                      > tension and
                      > > > roller tilt, the alignment might be more easily accomplished. If you
                      > > look at
                      > > > my pictures you will see the tension and tilt adjustment screws
                      I have
                      > > > incorporated. Even if you simply employ shims to adjust the tilt,
                      > > once you
                      > > > have succeeded, you will probably never have to readjust the tilt.
                      > > Breaking
                      > > > in a no stretch belt can be very frustrating because at first it
                      > > will seem
                      > > > that there is no sweet spot but eventually, as the belt assumes a
                      > > bit of a
                      > > > curve, things will begin to behave.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Hope this helps.
                      > > >
                      > > > Dick Linder
                      > > >
                      > > > _____
                      > > >
                      > > > From: HYPERLINK
                      > >
                      >
                      "mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator%40yahoogroups.com"VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogro
                      > > ups.com
                      > > > [mailto:HYPERLINK
                      > >
                      >
                      "mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator%40yahoogroups.com"VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogro
                      > > ups.com] On Behalf Of
                      > > jeremiah.alger
                      > > > Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 8:45 AM
                      > > > To: HYPERLINK
                      > >
                      >
                      "mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator%40yahoogroups.com"VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogro
                      > > ups.com
                      > > > Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Hello New Mmeber Here
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Hey everyone,
                      > > >
                      > > > I think it is really great there is a group like this...I am pretty
                      > > > new to all of this and wanted to ask a question. I am in the
                      middle of
                      > > > building my Van de Graaff Generator and I am having a lot of trouble
                      > > > keeping my belt on track. I am using two wheels from an RC car
                      at the
                      > > > hobby shop and it has an outer edge on both sides. Even with the
                      edge
                      > > > the band is overlapping on itself and eventually comes off. So
                      that's
                      > > > it for now but once again thank you for all the pictures and great
                      > > > ideas...my daughter and I are really enjoying this project.
                      > > >
                      > > > Jeremiah
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                      > > Checked by AVG.
                      > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1724 - Release Date:
                      > 14/10/2008
                      > > 2:02 AM
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                      > > Checked by AVG.
                      > > Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.1/1733 - Release Date:
                      > 19/10/2008
                      > > 6:02 PM
                      > >
                      >
                    • Trevor Hannam
                      So true Dick, so true Trev From: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com [mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Linder Sent: Tuesday,
                      Message 10 of 11 , Oct 25, 2008

                        So true Dick, so true

                        Trev

                         

                        From: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com [mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Linder
                        Sent: Tuesday, 21 October 2008 5:17 AM
                        To: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Re: Hello New Member Here

                         

                        Trevor:

                         

                        I suppose I should have been more specific. Of course you can paint the dome but you have to wind up with the same (or better)  smooth surface that you started with otherwise you will diminish performance. And, of course if you achieve this good surface, conductive paint will be OK.  . As far as the column is concerned there is nothing that you can ADD to the surface to raise the resistance of the path from the dome end to the  grounded end. Anything you add to the surface of the column will effectively be a parallel resistance and Ohm’s law will prevail.

                         

                        Dick

                         


                        From: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com [mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Trevor Hannam
                        Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 5:00 AM
                        To: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Re: Hello New Member Here

                         

                        Hi Richard and Jeremiah

                         

                        I have had some problems at home and have not been able to talk to anyone for some time but now I am back.

                         

                        Re your comment Dick about paint. I believe you and I spoke of this some time back about the dome I had which was badly pitted. I had to use this as I could not get another. I used cold galvanizing paint, sanded it, resprayed, sanded and did it again. I ended up with a nice finish that was grey in colour.

                        The VDG still produced 18” sparks – It appears you can use paint – Sorry Dick – but must be conductive. I believe the zinc or galv in the paint has done the trick. This paint has 90% metal in it and seems so far to be a good paint to coat steel metal balls, however I believe as Dick says, there must be a lot of losses though.

                         

                        What do you think Dick?

                        Trevor

                         

                        From: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com [mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Linder
                        Sent: Friday, 17 October 2008 6:35 AM
                        To: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Re: Hello New Member Here

                         

                        Jeremiah:  So glad to be of some help.   The most important thing with the top terminal is the smoother the better. Paint will not improve anything but might surely degrade the performance. Same goes with the column, The VDG is a very high impedance source of voltage and because of its high impedance any leakage (current) to ground will lower the voltage capability of the VDG. Mot plastics are good insulators at “normal” voltages but when we are talking about voltages in the hundreds of thousands and source impedances of  thousands of megohms all plastics are not good insulators. PVC has been used by lots of folks with success. If anyone has contrary experience maybe you will hear from them. No matter what you wind up with for a column, keep it clean. I use liquid ammonia soap, available in most hardware stores. Works great !

                         

                         

                         Best wishes, Dick Linder

                         


                        From: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com [mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jeremiah.alger
                        Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 8:38 AM
                        To: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Re: Hello New Member Here

                         

                        Thank you so much for your response, it was extremely helpful. Its
                        funny but you would think that the "retention edges" would help, but
                        you are exactly right the crown does the trick! I was also wondering
                        about paint...for the dome(two metal bowls)as well as the pvc pipe
                        that the belt travels in...any recommendations or would this be a bad
                        idea. Thanks again Richard.

                        Jeremiah

                        --- In VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Linder"
                        <linder@...> wrote:

                        >
                        > Jeremiah: Hi and welcome. I think rollers with "retention edges"
                        are
                        > nothing but trouble because they do not do what one might hope, and
                        that is
                        > to prevent the belt from misbehaving.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > The proper design roller will have a crown. That is to say the
                        diameter of
                        > the roller in the center of the roller will be larger than the two
                        diameters
                        > at each end. Assuming the belt is properly aligned with the roller,
                        the belt
                        > will run true. Why does this work? Because for the belt to run off the
                        > roller, its edge must stretch to creep over the larger center
                        diameter and
                        > it does not want to do that. The optimum amount of crown (center
                        diameter
                        > minus the end diameter) will depend on the stretchiness of the belt
                        > material. For example if the belt material is absolutely non stretch
                        then
                        > any amount of crowning will not work. This is because the belt will not
                        > conform to the crown. The other extreme is if the belt is very stretchy.
                        > This material would require a significant amount of crown because a
                        stretchy
                        > belt will easily stretch enough to creep over a minimal amount of
                        crowning.
                        > My own experience is with minimal stretch vinyl impregnated nylon. The
                        > amount of crowning on my rollers is minimal. Keep in mind that a
                        belt made
                        > of this material will require a run-in to shape the belt so it will
                        assume
                        > the shape of the roller crown. In reality, the belt will stretch a
                        bit to
                        > accommodate the curved shape of the roller surface.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Be advised that my experience is with a 6" wide belt and a separation
                        > between rollers of several feet. The difference between the diameters is
                        > approximately between .060" and .100" ..not very much! I would
                        suspect
                        > tracking with smaller VDGs might be somewhat less fussy. In any case, if
                        > your design can include some sort of fine adjustment of belt tension and
                        > roller tilt, the alignment might be more easily accomplished. If you
                        look at
                        > my pictures you will see the tension and tilt adjustment screws I have
                        > incorporated. Even if you simply employ shims to adjust the tilt,
                        once you
                        > have succeeded, you will probably never have to readjust the tilt.
                        Breaking
                        > in a no stretch belt can be very frustrating because at first it
                        will seem
                        > that there is no sweet spot but eventually, as the belt assumes a
                        bit of a
                        > curve, things will begin to behave.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Hope this helps.
                        >
                        > Dick Linder
                        >
                        > _____
                        >
                        > From: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com]
                        On Behalf Of
                        jeremiah.alger
                        > Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 8:45 AM
                        > To: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Hello New Mmeber Here
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Hey everyone,
                        >
                        > I think it is really great there is a group like this...I am pretty
                        > new to all of this and wanted to ask a question. I am in the middle of
                        > building my Van de Graaff Generator and I am having a lot of trouble
                        > keeping my belt on track. I am using two wheels from an RC car at the
                        > hobby shop and it has an outer edge on both sides. Even with the edge
                        > the band is overlapping on itself and eventually comes off. So that's
                        > it for now but once again thank you for all the pictures and great
                        > ideas...my daughter and I are really enjoying this project.
                        >
                        > Jeremiah
                        >

                         

                        No virus found in this incoming message.
                        Checked by AVG.
                        Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1724 - Release Date: 14/10/2008 2:02 AM

                         

                        No virus found in this outgoing message.
                        Checked by AVG.
                        Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.1/1733 - Release Date: 19/10/2008 6:02 PM

                         

                        No virus found in this incoming message.
                        Checked by AVG.
                        Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.3/1744 - Release Date: 24/10/2008 6:08 PM


                        No virus found in this outgoing message.
                        Checked by AVG.
                        Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.3/1744 - Release Date: 24/10/2008 6:08 PM

                      • Trevor Hannam
                        Hi Jeremiah I found grounding to earth if it is a negative output is definitely makes it better and gives more bite. Trev From:
                        Message 11 of 11 , Oct 25, 2008

                          Hi Jeremiah

                           

                          I found grounding to earth if it is a negative output is definitely makes it better and gives more bite.

                          Trev

                           

                          From: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com [mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jeremiah.alger
                          Sent: Thursday, 23 October 2008 10:45 PM
                          To: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Re: Hello New Member Here

                           

                          Richard and Trevor,

                          Thanks guys for all your help! I fired up my VDG last night and it
                          made about 1 inch and a half to 2 inch sparks. My hair on my arms
                          stood up easily, however my hair on my head did not. I read that
                          grounding the bottom comb would increase performance as well as
                          keeping it clean...any suggestions? I am by no means an electrician so
                          I am not sure what to ground the bottom comb to. Also I am using a
                          sowing machine motor and it has no switch for off and on...if I bought
                          one or even a dimer to control the speed, how would I go about
                          attaching this to the motor. Sorry about all the questions, I really
                          appreciate the help...I can now see why you guys enjoy doing stuff
                          like this...its addictive. I cannot wait to get to the next project!

                          Jeremiah
                          PS I will posting some pictures of my endeavor soon...thanks again!

                          --- In VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com, "Trevor Hannam"
                          <trev.kay@...> wrote:

                          >
                          > Hi Richard and Jeremiah
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > I have had some problems at home and have not been able to talk to
                          anyone
                          > for some time but now I am back.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Re your comment Dick about paint. I believe you and I spoke of this some
                          > time back about the dome I had which was badly pitted. I had to use
                          this as
                          > I could not get another. I used cold galvanizing paint, sanded it,
                          > resprayed, sanded and did it again. I ended up with a nice finish
                          that was
                          > grey in colour.
                          >
                          > The VDG still produced 18" sparks – It appears you can use paint –
                          Sorry
                          > Dick – but must be conductive. I believe the zinc or galv in the
                          paint has
                          > done the trick. This paint has 90% metal in it and seems so far to
                          be a good
                          > paint to coat steel metal balls, however I believe as Dick says,
                          there must
                          > be a lot of losses though.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > What do you think Dick?
                          >
                          > Trevor
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > From: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
                          > [mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com]
                          On Behalf Of Richard
                          Linder
                          > Sent: Friday, 17 October 2008 6:35 AM
                          > To: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: RE: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Re: Hello New Member Here
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Jeremiah: So glad to be of some help. The most important thing
                          with the
                          > top terminal is the smoother the better. Paint will not improve
                          anything but
                          > might surely degrade the performance. Same goes with the column, The
                          VDG is
                          > a very high impedance source of voltage and because of its high
                          impedance
                          > any leakage (current) to ground will lower the voltage capability of the
                          > VDG. Mot plastics are good insulators at "normal" voltages but
                          when
                          we are
                          > talking about voltages in the hundreds of thousands and source
                          impedances of
                          > thousands of megohms all plastics are not good insulators. PVC has
                          been used
                          > by lots of folks with success. If anyone has contrary experience
                          maybe you
                          > will hear from them. No matter what you wind up with for a column,
                          keep it
                          > clean. I use liquid ammonia soap, available in most hardware stores.
                          Works
                          > great !
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Best wishes, Dick Linder
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > _____
                          >
                          > From: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
                          > [mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com]
                          On Behalf Of
                          jeremiah.alger
                          > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 8:38 AM
                          > To: VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Re: Hello New Member Here
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Thank you so much for your response, it was extremely helpful. Its
                          > funny but you would think that the "retention edges" would help,
                          but
                          > you are exactly right the crown does the trick! I was also wondering
                          > about paint...for the dome(two metal bowls)as well as the pvc pipe
                          > that the belt travels in...any recommendations or would this be a bad
                          > idea. Thanks again Richard.
                          >
                          > Jeremiah
                          >
                          > --- In HYPERLINK
                          >
                          "mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator%40yahoogroups.com"VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogro
                          > ups.com, "Richard Linder"
                          > <linder@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Jeremiah: Hi and welcome. I think rollers with "retention
                          edges" are
                          > > nothing but trouble because they do not do what one might hope, and
                          > that is
                          > > to prevent the belt from misbehaving.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > The proper design roller will have a crown. That is to say the
                          > diameter of
                          > > the roller in the center of the roller will be larger than the two
                          > diameters
                          > > at each end. Assuming the belt is properly aligned with the roller,
                          > the belt
                          > > will run true. Why does this work? Because for the belt to run off
                          the
                          > > roller, its edge must stretch to creep over the larger center
                          > diameter and
                          > > it does not want to do that. The optimum amount of crown (center
                          > diameter
                          > > minus the end diameter) will depend on the stretchiness of the belt
                          > > material. For example if the belt material is absolutely non stretch
                          > then
                          > > any amount of crowning will not work. This is because the belt
                          will not
                          > > conform to the crown. The other extreme is if the belt is very
                          stretchy.
                          > > This material would require a significant amount of crown because a
                          > stretchy
                          > > belt will easily stretch enough to creep over a minimal amount of
                          > crowning.
                          > > My own experience is with minimal stretch vinyl impregnated nylon.
                          The
                          > > amount of crowning on my rollers is minimal. Keep in mind that a
                          > belt made
                          > > of this material will require a run-in to shape the belt so it will
                          > assume
                          > > the shape of the roller crown. In reality, the belt will stretch a
                          > bit to
                          > > accommodate the curved shape of the roller surface.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Be advised that my experience is with a 6" wide belt and a
                          separation
                          > > between rollers of several feet. The difference between the
                          diameters is
                          > > approximately between .060" and .100" ..not very much! I
                          would
                          > suspect
                          > > tracking with smaller VDGs might be somewhat less fussy. In any
                          case, if
                          > > your design can include some sort of fine adjustment of belt
                          tension and
                          > > roller tilt, the alignment might be more easily accomplished. If you
                          > look at
                          > > my pictures you will see the tension and tilt adjustment screws I
                          have
                          > > incorporated. Even if you simply employ shims to adjust the tilt,
                          > once you
                          > > have succeeded, you will probably never have to readjust the tilt.
                          > Breaking
                          > > in a no stretch belt can be very frustrating because at first it
                          > will seem
                          > > that there is no sweet spot but eventually, as the belt assumes a
                          > bit of a
                          > > curve, things will begin to behave.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Hope this helps.
                          > >
                          > > Dick Linder
                          > >
                          > > _____
                          > >
                          > > From: HYPERLINK
                          >
                          "mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator%40yahoogroups.com"VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogro
                          > ups.com
                          > > [mailto:HYPERLINK
                          >
                          "mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator%40yahoogroups.com"VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogro
                          > ups.com] On Behalf Of
                          > jeremiah.alger
                          > > Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 8:45 AM
                          > > To: HYPERLINK
                          >
                          "mailto:VanDeGraaffGenerator%40yahoogroups.com"VanDeGraaffGenerator@yahoogro
                          > ups.com
                          > > Subject: [VanDeGraaffGenerator] Hello New Mmeber Here
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Hey everyone,
                          > >
                          > > I think it is really great there is a group like this...I am pretty
                          > > new to all of this and wanted to ask a question. I am in the middle
                          of
                          > > building my Van de Graaff Generator and I am having a lot of trouble
                          > > keeping my belt on track. I am using two wheels from an RC car at the
                          > > hobby shop and it has an outer edge on both sides. Even with the edge
                          > > the band is overlapping on itself and eventually comes off. So that's
                          > > it for now but once again thank you for all the pictures and great
                          > > ideas...my daughter and I are really enjoying this project.
                          > >
                          > > Jeremiah
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > No virus found in this incoming message.
                          > Checked by AVG.
                          > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1724 - Release Date:
                          14/10/2008
                          > 2:02 AM
                          >
                          >
                          > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                          > Checked by AVG.
                          > Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.1/1733 - Release Date:
                          19/10/2008
                          > 6:02 PM
                          >

                           

                          No virus found in this incoming message.
                          Checked by AVG.
                          Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.3/1744 - Release Date: 24/10/2008 6:08 PM


                          No virus found in this outgoing message.
                          Checked by AVG.
                          Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.3/1744 - Release Date: 24/10/2008 6:08 PM

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