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Diamonds in a vacuum

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  • jrrymiller
    Did anyone else see the PBS NOVA program that showed diamonds being grown in a vacuum chamber? Appearently if you have a diamond seed and a carbon containing
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 1, 2009
      Did anyone else see the PBS NOVA program that showed diamonds being grown in a vacuum chamber? Appearently if you have a diamond seed and a carbon containing gas that is ionized it is possible to achieve the conditions where the carbon will deposit on the seed crystal and grow as a diamond. Low pressure and ionized gas seem to be the key.
    • Mark Vilimek
      Did not see this, but my friend has a PVD chamber in his garage where he is doing research on new semiconductors using cultured diamonds and then doping the
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 1, 2009
        Did not see this, but my friend has a PVD chamber in his garage where he is doing research on new semiconductors using cultured diamonds and then doping the surface. He says this will replace silicon in semiconductors as diamond deals with heat much better. And he should know as he has built and sold two semicondutor startups in the past two decades. Very interesting stuff indeed, just seeing it gets people crazy, have another friend in Taiwan who is now trying to replicate the work with his facility (he manufactures the touch panels for the iPhone there).

        Mark

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Jul 1, 2009, at 8:35 AM, "jrrymiller" <gandamiller@...> wrote:

        Did anyone else see the PBS NOVA program that showed diamonds being grown in a vacuum chamber? Appearently if you have a diamond seed and a carbon containing gas that is ionized it is possible to achieve the conditions where the carbon will deposit on the seed crystal and grow as a diamond. Low pressure and ionized gas seem to be the key.

      • mirroromatic
        ... I read somewhere on the web about a Russian process that grows *big* diamonds via this process, but unfortunately they turn out yellow due to nitrogen
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 1, 2009
          --- In VacuumX@yahoogroups.com, Mark Vilimek <mvilimek@...> wrote:
          >
          > Did not see this, but my friend has a PVD chamber in his garage where he is doing research on new semiconductors using cultured diamonds and then doping the surface. He says this will replace silicon in semiconductors as diamond deals with heat much better. And he should know as he has built and sold two semicondutor startups in the past two decades. Very interesting stuff indeed, just seeing it gets people crazy, have another friend in Taiwan who is now trying to replicate the work with his facility (he manufactures the touch panels for the iPhone there).
          >
          > Mark

          I read somewhere on the web about a Russian process that grows *big* diamonds via this process, but unfortunately they turn out yellow due to nitrogen entrapped in the crystal.
          Movie stars and such are using them as "cheap" wearable replacements for the real ones that are kept in a vault somewhere.
          It might be worth while digging up more info on the process, if it's not a trade secret.

          Daryl
        • Thomas Janstrom
          The gas of choice for this process is a mix of methane and ethane, although if money isn’t an object then the alkenes (double bonded carbon molecules) area
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 1, 2009
            The gas of choice for this process is a mix of methane and ethane, although if money isn’t an object then the alkenes (double bonded carbon molecules) area better option, more carbon per unit as there are fewer hydrogen atoms involved. The carbon molecule with the highest C:H ratio is acetylene, but that is a rather touchy gas to deal with. YMMV

            Not sure what the optimum pressure is nor how diff pumps handle pumping hydrogen…..

            Oh yeah the nitrogen contamination issue can be dealt with to some extent by successive pump downs followed by back filling with analytical grade argon prior to doing a diamond growth run, but not eliminated even if you use analytical grade feed stock gasses, there will be some N present if only from C14 decay.

            Funny thing is I even have some diamond that can be used as seed crystals. HMmmm

            Cheers, Thomas Janstrom.
            Little Gems.
            http://tjlittlegems.com

            From: VacuumX@yahoogroups.com [mailto:VacuumX@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mirroromatic
            Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2009 7:18 AM
            To: VacuumX@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [VacuumX] Re: Diamonds in a vacuum




            --- In VacuumX@yahoogroups.com, Mark Vilimek <mvilimek@...> wrote:
            >
            > Did not see this, but my friend has a PVD chamber in his garage where he is doing research on new semiconductors using cultured diamonds and then doping the surface. He says this will replace silicon in semiconductors as diamond deals with heat much better. And he should know as he has built and sold two semicondutor startups in the past two decades. Very interesting stuff indeed, just seeing it gets people crazy, have another friend in Taiwan who is now trying to replicate the work with his facility (he manufactures the touch panels for the iPhone there).
            >
            > Mark

            I read somewhere on the web about a Russian process that grows *big* diamonds via this process, but unfortunately they turn out yellow due to nitrogen entrapped in the crystal.
            Movie stars and such are using them as "cheap" wearable replacements for the real ones that are kept in a vault somewhere.
            It might be worth while digging up more info on the process, if it's not a trade secret.

            Daryl
          • Carl K6ZXU
            Here is a link to the PBS program on NOVA Science Now about the Apollo diamond factory... watch it online: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/0401/01.html
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 1, 2009
              Here is a link to the PBS program on NOVA Science Now about the Apollo diamond factory...
              watch it online:

              http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/0401/01.html

              Other interesting links:

              Chemical vapor deposition of diamond

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_vapor_deposition_of_diamond

              Vacuum equipment etc:

              http://www.sekicvdsolutions.com/

              Chemical vapor deposition

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_vapor_deposition

              Apollo Diamond

              http://www.apollodiamond.com/

              Carl

              --- In VacuumX@yahoogroups.com, "jrrymiller" <gandamiller@...> wrote:
              >
              > Did anyone else see the PBS NOVA program that showed diamonds being
              > grown in a vacuum chamber? Appearently if you have a diamond seed and a
              > carbon containing gas that is ionized it is possible to achieve the
              > conditions where the carbon will deposit on the seed crystal and grow as
              > a diamond. Low pressure and ionized gas seem to be the key.
              >
            • Mark Vilimek
              Tava got his method from a school friend at DeBeers who worked on detection methods as these cultured diamonds are almost impossible to detect under normal
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 1, 2009
                Tava got his method from a school friend at DeBeers who worked on detection methods as these "cultured diamonds" are almost impossible to detect under normal methods previously used to detect the other Russian process where they do, from what I understand, massive compression and heat to form yellow and pink diamonds. The yellow/pink diamonds from the Russian process is being researched at an University in Florida (forgot which, but I am sure you can Google it). Those are indeed the Hollywood diamonds as my actress friend has more than a few as a statement about conditions in Africa and how companies exploit the people...less about the value of "real ones".

                The PVD diamonds are real synthetically produced diamonds, where the Russian process creates something that can not be easily mistaken for a diamond by both color and composition. Which of course has DeBeers spending a lot of money to defend its market. From what I was told, the only way to tell the a diamond from a PVD process is that it is absolutely flawless (except for the original seed) and there is a blue shift in the spectro-analysis from the nitrogen and other traces elements from the methane gas used. Which DeBeers now has detection equipment in the field that look for that marker and has spent a bit of money trying to control anyone trying to market PVD diamonds. 

                The big legal fight was over to call it  "Cultured" versus "Synthetic" diamonds, synthetic is what DeBeers wants it called, which means it is perceived as fake by consumers. The other side of the case wants to call it "Cultured" as it is chemically and structurally a real diamond, just produced in the lab and not in the ground. Drawing similarities to pearl production, where most pearls today are induced, not naturally occurring...but yet are real pearls. 

                If you are in the Silicon Valley, the Techshop.ws had a Saturday class showing how to manufacture these cultured diamonds, unfortunately I was traveling and missed it. But if you are really interested I am sure you can email the Techshop and ask who was putting on the class. The two guys I mentioned I know are too tight lipped about any real details. 

                Once we get past a few other hurdles on another process we are working on commercializing, we plan to look into this process as well, as the semiconductor side is very compelling. The new properties could unlock a lot of new applications.

                Mark



                On Jul 1, 2009, at 2:18 PM, mirroromatic wrote:



                --- In VacuumX@yahoogroups .com, Mark Vilimek <mvilimek@.. .> wrote:
                >
                > Did not see this, but my friend has a PVD chamber in his garage where he is doing research on new semiconductors using cultured diamonds and then doping the surface. He says this will replace silicon in semiconductors as diamond deals with heat much better. And he should know as he has built and sold two semicondutor startups in the past two decades. Very interesting stuff indeed, just seeing it gets people crazy, have another friend in Taiwan who is now trying to replicate the work with his facility (he manufactures the touch panels for the iPhone there).
                > 
                > Mark

                I read somewhere on the web about a Russian process that grows *big* diamonds via this process, but unfortunately they turn out yellow due to nitrogen entrapped in the crystal.
                Movie stars and such are using them as "cheap" wearable replacements for the real ones that are kept in a vault somewhere.
                It might be worth while digging up more info on the process, if it's not a trade secret.

                Daryl


              • Mark Vilimek
                Apollo diamond is the one of the big targets of DeBeers. DeBeer s firm that produces PVD diamonds is Element Six http://www.e6.com/en/
                Message 7 of 8 , Jul 1, 2009
                  Apollo diamond is the one of the big targets of DeBeers.

                  DeBeer's firm that produces PVD diamonds is Element Six




                  On Jul 1, 2009, at 4:00 PM, Carl K6ZXU wrote:




                  Here is a link to the PBS program on NOVA Science Now about the Apollo diamond factory...
                  watch it online:

                  http://www.pbs. org/wgbh/ nova/sciencenow/ 0401/01.html

                  Other interesting links:

                  Chemical vapor deposition of diamond

                  http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Chemical_ vapor_deposition _of_diamond

                  Vacuum equipment etc:

                  http://www.sekicvds olutions. com/

                  Chemical vapor deposition

                  http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Chemical_ vapor_deposition

                  Apollo Diamond

                  http://www.apollodi amond.com/

                  Carl

                  --- In VacuumX@yahoogroups .com, "jrrymiller" <gandamiller@ ...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Did anyone else see the PBS NOVA program that showed diamonds being
                  > grown in a vacuum chamber? Appearently if you have a diamond seed and a
                  > carbon containing gas that is ionized it is possible to achieve the
                  > conditions where the carbon will deposit on the seed crystal and grow as
                  > a diamond. Low pressure and ionized gas seem to be the key.
                  >


                • Mark Vilimek
                  If you want to buy samples... http://www.e6cvd.com/cvd/page.jsp?pageid=100&lang=en http://www.e6sales.com
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jul 1, 2009
                    If you want to buy samples...




                    On Jul 1, 2009, at 4:11 PM, Mark Vilimek wrote:



                    Apollo diamond is the one of the big targets of DeBeers.


                    DeBeer's firm that produces PVD diamonds is Element Six




                    On Jul 1, 2009, at 4:00 PM, Carl K6ZXU wrote:




                    Here is a link to the PBS program on NOVA Science Now about the Apollo diamond factory...
                    watch it online:

                    http://www.pbs. org/wgbh/ nova/sciencenow/ 0401/01.html

                    Other interesting links:

                    Chemical vapor deposition of diamond

                    http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Chemical_ vapor_deposition _of_diamond

                    Vacuum equipment etc:

                    http://www.sekicvds olutions. com/

                    Chemical vapor deposition

                    http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Chemical_ vapor_deposition

                    Apollo Diamond

                    http://www.apollodi amond.com/

                    Carl

                    --- In VacuumX@yahoogroups .com, "jrrymiller" <gandamiller@ ...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Did anyone else see the PBS NOVA program that showed diamonds being
                    > grown in a vacuum chamber? Appearently if you have a diamond seed and a
                    > carbon containing gas that is ionized it is possible to achieve the
                    > conditions where the carbon will deposit on the seed crystal and grow as
                    > a diamond. Low pressure and ionized gas seem to be the key.
                    >




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