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Re: [VLF_Group] Re: Recording of Atmospheric anomoly?

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  • wd4rbx
    Explained much better here. http://jcoppens.com/radio/prop/g3plx/chirps.en.php Rich [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 20 , Dec 1, 2008
      Explained much better here.

      http://jcoppens.com/radio/prop/g3plx/chirps.en.php

      Rich

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Joel Gonzalez
      http://www.qsl.net/zl1bpu/IONO/chirps.htm Hmmm, I guess those chirps aren t as useless and annoying as I once thought. I might just give this a try. Thanks for
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 1, 2008
        http://www.qsl.net/zl1bpu/IONO/chirps.htm

        Hmmm, I guess those chirps aren't as useless and annoying as I once
        thought. I might just give this a try. Thanks for the link Rich!

        Joel
      • Facility 406 DM09
        The atmospheric anomoly , to which I initially refered, not Ionospheric Sounders, has been heard by me for about two and a half decades, have heard stories of
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 1, 2008
          The "atmospheric anomoly", to which I initially refered, not Ionospheric
          Sounders, has been heard by me for about two and a half decades, have heard
          stories of them noted as far back as the 1950's, different frequency span
          and sweep rate than many (if not all, over-all) chirp-sounders, some come
          down from VHF into HF (noted today), then go back up, some very fast, some
          very slow, some very erratic in their sweep, more of a bounce, many times
          heard when a band is dead, such as 10m, which is dead for quite some time,
          yet these things blast through by the hand-full.

          Somewhere along the way "squigglies", the atmospheric anomoly I inquired
          about, became "chirps", you'll notice they aren't remotely similar aside
          form the generic term of "sound".

          Also, interesting to note that Inospheric Sounders are often confused with
          Ionosondes, balloon carried devices used in measuring ionizing radiation in
          the upper atmosphere for many decades.

          Observations to take into consideration.

          Kurt
        • John
          ... ... but the squigglie examples that you provided all had the down-chirp property. chirp is merely a term used to describe any short duration signal in
          Message 4 of 20 , Dec 1, 2008
            --- Facility 406 wrote:
            > Somewhere along the way "squigglies", the atmospheric anomaly I
            > inquired about, became "chirps", you'll notice they aren't remotely
            > similar aside form the generic term of "sound" ...

            ... but the squigglie examples that you provided all had the down-chirp
            property.

            "chirp" is merely a term used to describe any short duration signal in
            which the frequency increases ('up-chirp') or decreases ('down-chirp')
            with time. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chirp)

            We need to see more examples of the squiggly signals that you actually
            heard before we can eliminate any category of hypotheses.
            :-)
            John/AF4EX
          • Facility 406 DM09
            We need to see more examples of the squiggly signals that you actually heard before we can eliminate any category of hypotheses. Best thing to do is compare
            Message 5 of 20 , Dec 1, 2008
              "We need to see more examples of the squiggly signals that you actually
              heard before we can eliminate any category of hypotheses."

              Best thing to do is compare the chirp sounder recording with the squiggly
              recording:

              Chirp here:

              http://www.qsl.net/zl1bpu/IONO/chirps.htm

              Squiggly here:

              http://www.aa5tb.com/sig04.html

              I can record my own, but aside from frequency and occasional variations,
              these are typical.

              The chirps have been constant, but the squiggly, imagine them as I
              described, fast, slow, bouncing, up down, HF, low VHF, a perpetual
              cluster---- of RF, unlike a chirp-sounder, which has a fixed rate and sounds
              the same in a static receiver. Today there was an excellent example of a
              bouncy squiggly signal that came down from VHF into HF and went back up,
              really wish I had a recorder going!

              Anyway, my initial question was, does somethign in the VLF range correlate,
              just in case some massive unknown is generating them, perhaps the random
              massive bursts of energy that effect the first Schumann Resonance for
              several tens of minutes. I am guessing noone is listening\looking for a
              squiggly correlation.

              Kurt
            • Ken
              This is becoming a very interesting topic. Ken ... From: Facility 406 DM09 To: Sent: Monday,
              Message 6 of 20 , Dec 1, 2008
                This is becoming a very interesting topic.

                Ken

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Facility 406 DM09" <facility_406@...>
                To: <VLF_Group@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 7:50 PM
                Subject: Re: [VLF_Group] Re: Recording of Atmospheric anomaly?


                > "We need to see more examples of the squiggly signals that you actually
                > heard before we can eliminate any category of hypotheses."
                >
                > Best thing to do is compare the chirp sounder recording with the squiggly
                > recording:
                >
                > Chirp here:
                >
                > http://www.qsl.net/zl1bpu/IONO/chirps.htm
                >
                > Squiggly here:
                >
                > http://www.aa5tb.com/sig04.html
                >
                > I can record my own, but aside from frequency and occasional variations,
                > these are typical.
                >
                > The chirps have been constant, but the squiggly, imagine them as I
                > described, fast, slow, bouncing, up down, HF, low VHF, a perpetual
                > cluster---- of RF, unlike a chirp-sounder, which has a fixed rate and
                > sounds
                > the same in a static receiver. Today there was an excellent example of a
                > bouncy squiggly signal that came down from VHF into HF and went back up,
                > really wish I had a recorder going!
                >
                > Anyway, my initial question was, does somethign in the VLF range
                > correlate,
                > just in case some massive unknown is generating them, perhaps the random
                > massive bursts of energy that effect the first Schumann Resonance for
                > several tens of minutes. I am guessing noone is listening\looking for a
                > squiggly correlation.
                >
                > Kurt
                >
                >
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              • John
                ... Kurt, Apparently you re not seeing (or hearing) the chirp in your squigly signal. I captured Squigly #1 and the ionosonde chirps in SpecLab and posted the
                Message 7 of 20 , Dec 2, 2008
                  --- "Facility 406 DM09" wrote:
                  Kurt,
                  Apparently you're not seeing (or hearing) the chirp in your squigly
                  signal.

                  I captured Squigly #1 and the ionosonde chirps in SpecLab and posted
                  the screen shots in my AF4EX.RADIO files under "Atmospheric Anomaly".
                  You should be able to see that Squigly #1 is a "down-chirp", whose
                  pitch envelope drops about 750Hz. The ionsonde is an "up-chirp", with
                  much shorter duration.

                  I agree, they're different. But the point I was making was that
                  Squigly had a chirp, which might help us classify it.

                  The chirp is a property of the signal that might have been generated
                  in one of two ways:
                  1. Part of the original signal process (e.g. the ionosonde)
                  2. Added later, during propagation (e.g. whistlers)

                  Recall how a lightning crash sferic starts off as a very short,
                  intense wide band pulse and is transformed into a 1-second long down-
                  chirp by magnetic dispersion. Some ("risers") also appear as up-
                  chirps. Or both ("nose whisters").

                  Pershaps a whistler-like dispersion has stretch the squigly, which
                  may have started out as a pulse, into a longer, more complex creature.

                  I'm inclined to agree with you, that these are different signals
                  because one is an up-chirp and the other is a down-chirp. But try to
                  separate the process from the propagation to understand how the
                  appearance of a signal can change vastly.

                  Do you see the squigly's chirp property now?

                  John/AF4EX
                • Facility 406 DM09
                  I ll analyse them a bit and get back to you. Kurt ... From: John Apparently you re not seeing (or hearing) the chirp in your squigly
                  Message 8 of 20 , Dec 2, 2008
                    I'll analyse them a bit and get back to you.

                    Kurt

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "John" <af4ex.radio@...>

                    Apparently you're not seeing (or hearing) the chirp in your squigly
                    signal.
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