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Re: [V4Protocol] V4 1.0.3 bug -- TS-590S memory frequencies not read

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  • Rick Muething
    Ian, I understand your comment but I think it has to work the way it does to support the click to tune and to follow the tuning knob features that were
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 19, 2012
      Ian,
       
      I understand your comment but I think it has to work the way it does to support the click to tune and to follow the tuning knob features that were requested:
       
      When you click an item in the mini contact log it will set the radio to that frequency (assuming a valid frequency is in the log) using the FA command...You wouldn’t want to set a memory location with that.

      When you rotate the tuning knob manually you want the waterfall display  to “track” showing the center RF frequency and that requires reading the FA since you are reading the currently tuned frequency not the saved memory.  The displayed frequency won’t change with a tuning knob rotation on a memory recall (unless it is transferred to VFO using the M>V button)
       
      When you click on  a nearby signal showing on the waterfall or spectrum display you want to change the VFO frequency to center that signal (to the red line) and that requires using the FA command.
       
      So I am not sure that reading the memory frequency (displayed frequency using the IF command) makes sense as the above 3 operations are based on the A VFO.   You can on the TS-590S of course simply do a Memory recall followed by a M>V push which transfers the memory contents to VFO which then permits the display, following the tuning knob and click to tune capability above. These are important features users have asked for.
       
      Also please try and remember that it is desirable to have the code behave the same way for each radio. There are a some areas where code changes for radio model/Manufacture changes are needed but when you get into reading and controlling memory banks you can be just about certain that is unique to each radio manufacturer and model.  For example the FA command and reply syntax is pretty universal for all Kenwoods and some other Manufacturers but the IF command and returned data syntax are more unique to radios like the TS-590S.  
       
      I want to keep the setup options minimized and having multiple ways of reading the frequency (Memory, VFO A, VFO B etc) are all possible but add confusion and complexity.   If you are using memory it is a simple one button push (M>V) to get it to the VFO and then all the other features continue to work.
       
      73,

      Rick KN6KB
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
      Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:48 AM
      Subject: [V4Protocol] V4 1.0.3 bug -- TS-590S memory frequencies not read
       
       

      Hi Rick

      I have just been trying 1.0.3 with the TS-590S. You're nearly there, but
      you still don't get the T-shirt.

      Recall that earlier this year I reported that V4 does not always read
      the TS-590S display frequency. Yes, it does read the radio's frequency
      *if you are not using a memory channel*, but if you set the frequency
      from a memory channel, V4 does not recognize this.

      Well, the bug is still there in 1.0.3. As I mentioned before, this is
      because you are incorrectly reading the *VFO-A* frequency, with the
      "FA;" CAT command. When you select a TS-590S memory channel, the radio's
      *display* frequency will change, but the *VFO-A* frequency does not.

      Instead, you should be using the "IF;" command to read the radio's
      display frequency, not the "FA;" command. Then V4 will always be in step
      with the radio.

      See how Simon's HRD does it -- it uses "IF;" not "FA;" to get the
      display frequency, and it works fine with memory and non-memory channels
      alike.

      As I said before, V4 needs to display and log the frequency that is
      *actually* in use by the radio, regardless of whether it is a memory
      channel or not.

      --
      73
      Ian, G3NRW

    • Rick Muething
      Stan, Its almost NEVER as simple as a one variable change! Reading the displayed memory value using “FA” breaks the existing and asked for features of
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 19, 2012
        Stan,
         
        Its almost NEVER as simple as a one variable change!   Reading the displayed memory value using “FA”  breaks the existing and asked for features of Click to tune and following the Tuning knob.  It also makes the frequency readout function require a different command and parsing than all other Kenwood models.
         
        The only way I can see is offering the user a more complex optional setup that ends up being unique for the TS-590S.
         
        You can make everything work now as-is with one additional button push on the TS-590S   “M>V”  after you recall a saved memory.
        See my explanation to Ian.
         
        73,
         
        Rick
         
        Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:05 AM
        Subject: Re: [V4Protocol] V4 1.0.3 bug -- TS-590S memory frequencies not read
         
         

        Ian,
        That is the best explanation of a problem and the solution I have heard in the past 15 years! Perhaps ever! It should be a simple fix, also. Hopefully, only one variable has to be changed in the code.

        Way to go!
         
        Stan Kozlowitz

        aa5xo@...
        aa5xo@...
        NNN0YSD@...

        731-487-3359
         

        From: Ian Wade G3NRW <g3nrw-radio@...>
        To: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 8:48 AM
        Subject: [V4Protocol] V4 1.0.3 bug -- TS-590S memory frequencies not read
         
         
        Hi Rick

        I have just been trying 1.0.3 with the TS-590S. You're nearly there, but
        you still don't get the T-shirt.

        Recall that earlier this year I reported that V4 does not always read
        the TS-590S display frequency. Yes, it does read the radio's frequency
        *if you are not using a memory channel*, but if you set the frequency
        from a memory channel, V4 does not recognize this.

        Well, the bug is still there in 1.0.3. As I mentioned before, this is
        because you are incorrectly reading the *VFO-A* frequency, with the
        "FA;" CAT command. When you select a TS-590S memory channel, the radio's
        *display* frequency will change, but the *VFO-A* frequency does not.

        Instead, you should be using the "IF;" command to read the radio's
        display frequency, not the "FA;" command. Then V4 will always be in step
        with the radio.

        See how Simon's HRD does it -- it uses "IF;" not "FA;" to get the
        display frequency, and it works fine with memory and non-memory channels
        alike.

        As I said before, V4 needs to display and log the frequency that is
        *actually* in use by the radio, regardless of whether it is a memory
        channel or not.

        --
        73
        Ian, G3NRW



      • Ian Wade G3NRW
        ___Original Message_________________________________________ From: Rick Muething Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 Time: 11:33:04 ... Correct.
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 19, 2012
          ___Original Message_________________________________________
          From: Rick Muething <rmuething@...>
          Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 Time: 11:33:04


          >When you click an item in the mini contact log it will set the radio to that
          >frequency (assuming a valid frequency is in the log) using the FA
          >command...

          Correct.

          >You wouldn’t want to set a memory location with that.

          Correct. But I am talking about *reading* the radio's frequency, not
          *setting* it. I am not suggesting you try to change a memory location.

          >
          >
          >When you rotate the tuning knob manually you want the waterfall display 
          >to “track” showing the center RF frequency and that requires reading the
          >FA since you are reading the currently tuned frequency not the saved
          >memory.  The displayed frequency won’t change with a tuning knob
          >rotation on a memory recall (unless it is transferred to VFO using the M>V
          >button)

          Not correct. There is an option in the TS-590S (menu 18) that lets you
          override the memory. If menu 18 is set to ON, you can change the
          frequency with FA.

          >

          >When you click on  a nearby signal showing on the waterfall or spectrum
          >display you want to change the VFO frequency to center that signal (to
          >the red line) and that requires using the FA command.

          No problem, provided menu 18 is ON.

          >

          >So I am not sure that reading the memory frequency (displayed frequency
          >using the IF command) makes sense as the above 3 operations are based
          >on the A VFO.  


          >You can on the TS-590S of course simply do a Memory
          >recall followed by a M>V push which transfers the memory contents to
          >VFO which then permits the display, following the tuning knob and click to
          >tune capability above. These are important features users have asked for.


          All the user has to do is set menu 18 to ON, and your code will work for
          *setting* the VFO. No need for M>V.

          But I am talking about *reading* the radio's frequency, not *setting*
          it.

          >
          >
          [Snip]
          >
          >

          >I want to keep the setup options minimized and having multiple ways of
          >reading the frequency (Memory, VFO A, VFO B etc) are all possible but
          >add confusion and complexity.  

          With respect, it is *extremely* confusing when you see a frequency on
          the radio display that is totally unrelated to the center frequency on
          the V4 display. Above all, the radio display is what counts, and you
          need to bend V4 to fit.

          --
          73
          Ian, G3NRW
        • Stan Kozlowitz
          You are right, Rick.  I typed without much thought.  And I m sure extra features for one radio is not worth the effort.  Still, I don t think the option to
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 19, 2012
            You are right, Rick.  I typed without much thought.  And I'm sure extra features for one radio is not worth the effort.  Still, I don't think the option to choose the existing feature or the click-to-tune feature would be too difficult to implement.  

            Thanks for all your hard work.
             
            Stan Kozlowitz

            aa5xo@...
            aa5xo@...
            NNN0YSD@...

            731-487-3359


            From: Rick Muething <rmuething@...>
            To: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:41 AM
            Subject: Re: [V4Protocol] V4 1.0.3 bug -- TS-590S memory frequencies not read

             
            Stan,
             
            Its almost NEVER as simple as a one variable change!   Reading the displayed memory value using “FA”  breaks the existing and asked for features of Click to tune and following the Tuning knob.  It also makes the frequency readout function require a different command and parsing than all other Kenwood models.
             
            The only way I can see is offering the user a more complex optional setup that ends up being unique for the TS-590S.
             
            You can make everything work now as-is with one additional button push on the TS-590S   “M>V”  after you recall a saved memory.
            See my explanation to Ian.
             
            73,
             
            Rick
             
            Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:05 AM
            Subject: Re: [V4Protocol] V4 1.0.3 bug -- TS-590S memory frequencies not read
             
             
            Ian,
            That is the best explanation of a problem and the solution I have heard in the past 15 years! Perhaps ever! It should be a simple fix, also. Hopefully, only one variable has to be changed in the code.

            Way to go!
             
            Stan Kozlowitz

            aa5xo@...
            aa5xo@...
            NNN0YSD@...

            731-487-3359
             

            From: Ian Wade G3NRW <g3nrw-radio@...>
            To: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 8:48 AM
            Subject: [V4Protocol] V4 1.0.3 bug -- TS-590S memory frequencies not read
             
             
            Hi Rick

            I have just been trying 1.0.3 with the TS-590S. You're nearly there, but
            you still don't get the T-shirt.

            Recall that earlier this year I reported that V4 does not always read
            the TS-590S display frequency. Yes, it does read the radio's frequency
            *if you are not using a memory channel*, but if you set the frequency
            from a memory channel, V4 does not recognize this.

            Well, the bug is still there in 1.0.3. As I mentioned before, this is
            because you are incorrectly reading the *VFO-A* frequency, with the
            "FA;" CAT command. When you select a TS-590S memory channel, the radio's
            *display* frequency will change, but the *VFO-A* frequency does not.

            Instead, you should be using the "IF;" command to read the radio's
            display frequency, not the "FA;" command. Then V4 will always be in step
            with the radio.

            See how Simon's HRD does it -- it uses "IF;" not "FA;" to get the
            display frequency, and it works fine with memory and non-memory channels
            alike.

            As I said before, V4 needs to display and log the frequency that is
            *actually* in use by the radio, regardless of whether it is a memory
            channel or not.

            --
            73
            Ian, G3NRW





          • Rick Muething
            Ian, Thanks. Setting menu 18 to “tunable” makes a big difference. Then it can work as I described. Rather than actually changing those menu settings in
            Message 5 of 8 , Jun 19, 2012
              Ian,
               
              Thanks.
               
              Setting menu 18 to “tunable” makes a big difference. Then it can work as I described.  Rather than actually changing those menu settings in the program I’ll write it up in the Help setup for the TS-590S.  I don’t like to add more complexity there by changing more menu functions than are needed. The only downside is it takes special code since the readback and parsing are non standard (compared to other Kenwood models).  I’ll have to dig in and see if Icom has something equivalent on the 7200 and 7600.
               
              I’ll put the change it on my list....I wish however there was more time to work on some of the more critical things like improving the BER in weak conditions. Those kinds of enhancements benefit all users.
               
              Thanks again for the input.
               
              Rick KN6KB
               
               
              Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 12:55 PM
              Subject: Re: [V4Protocol] V4 1.0.3 bug -- TS-590S memory frequencies not read
               
               

              ___Original Message_________________________________________
              From: Rick Muething <mailto:rmuething%40cfl.rr.com>
              Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 Time: 11:33:04

              >
              >When you click an item in
              the mini contact log it will set the radio to that
              >frequency (assuming a
              valid frequency is in the log) using the FA
              >command...

              Correct.

              >You wouldn’t want to set a
              memory location with that.

              Correct. But I am talking about *reading* the radio's frequency, not
              *setting* it. I am not suggesting you try to change a memory location.

              >
              >
              >When you rotate the tuning knob
              manually you want the waterfall display
              >to “track” showing the center RF
              frequency and that requires reading the
              >FA since you are reading the
              currently tuned frequency not the saved
              >memory.  The displayed
              frequency won’t change with a tuning knob
              >rotation on a memory recall
              (unless it is transferred to VFO using the M>V
              >button)

              Not correct. There is an option in the TS-590S (menu 18) that lets you
              override the memory. If menu 18 is set to ON, you can change the
              frequency with FA.

              >
              >
              >When you click on  a nearby signal showing
              on the waterfall or spectrum
              >display you want to change the VFO frequency
              to center that signal (to
              >the red line) and that requires using the FA
              command.

              No problem, provided menu 18 is ON.

              >
              >
              >So I am not sure that reading the memory frequency (displayed
              frequency
              >using the IF command) makes sense as the above 3 operations are
              based
              >on the A VFO. 

              >You can on the TS-590S of course
              simply do a Memory
              >recall followed by a M>V push which transfers the
              memory contents to
              >VFO which then permits the display, following the
              tuning knob and click to
              >tune capability above. These are important
              features users have asked for.
              >

              All the user has to do is set menu 18 to ON, and your code will work for
              *setting* the VFO. No need for M>V.

              But I am talking about *reading* the radio's frequency, not *setting*
              it.

              >
              >
              [Snip]
              >
              >

              >I
              want to keep the setup options minimized and having multiple ways of
              >reading the frequency (Memory, VFO A, VFO B etc) are all possible
              but
              >add confusion and complexity. 

              With respect, it is *extremely* confusing when you see a frequency on
              the radio display that is totally unrelated to the center frequency on
              the V4 display. Above all, the radio display is what counts, and you
              need to bend V4 to fit.

              --
              73
              Ian, G3NRW

            • Ian Wade G3NRW
              ___Original Message_________________________________________ From: Rick Muething Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 Time: 15:30:05 ... Rick Agreed
              Message 6 of 8 , Jun 20, 2012
                ___Original Message_________________________________________
                From: Rick Muething <rmuething@...>
                Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 Time: 15:30:05


                >Setting menu 18 to “tunable” makes a big difference. Then it can work as I
                >described.  Rather than actually changing those menu settings in the
                >program I’ll write it up in the Help setup for the TS-590S.  I don’t like to add
                >more complexity there by changing more menu functions than are needed.
                >The only downside is it takes special code since the readback and parsing
                >are non standard (compared to other Kenwood models).  I’ll have to dig in
                >and see if Icom has something equivalent on the 7200 and 7600.

                >I’ll put the change it on my list....I wish however there was more time to
                >work on some of the more critical things like improving the BER in weak
                >conditions. Those kinds of enhancements benefit all users.


                Rick

                Agreed on all points. And, yes, spending more time on improving weak
                signal handling is much more important (and interesting!) than tweaking
                CAT commands.

                Good luck.

                --
                73
                Ian, G3NRW
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