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V4 1.0.3 bug -- TS-590S memory frequencies not read

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  • Ian Wade G3NRW
    Hi Rick I have just been trying 1.0.3 with the TS-590S. You re nearly there, but you still don t get the T-shirt. Recall that earlier this year I reported that
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 19, 2012
      Hi Rick

      I have just been trying 1.0.3 with the TS-590S. You're nearly there, but
      you still don't get the T-shirt.

      Recall that earlier this year I reported that V4 does not always read
      the TS-590S display frequency. Yes, it does read the radio's frequency
      *if you are not using a memory channel*, but if you set the frequency
      from a memory channel, V4 does not recognize this.

      Well, the bug is still there in 1.0.3. As I mentioned before, this is
      because you are incorrectly reading the *VFO-A* frequency, with the
      "FA;" CAT command. When you select a TS-590S memory channel, the radio's
      *display* frequency will change, but the *VFO-A* frequency does not.

      Instead, you should be using the "IF;" command to read the radio's
      display frequency, not the "FA;" command. Then V4 will always be in step
      with the radio.

      See how Simon's HRD does it -- it uses "IF;" not "FA;" to get the
      display frequency, and it works fine with memory and non-memory channels
      alike.

      As I said before, V4 needs to display and log the frequency that is
      *actually* in use by the radio, regardless of whether it is a memory
      channel or not.

      --
      73
      Ian, G3NRW
    • Stan Kozlowitz
      Ian, That is the best explanation of a problem and the solution I have heard in the past 15 years! Perhaps ever! It should be a simple fix, also. Hopefully,
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 19, 2012
        Ian,
        That is the best explanation of a problem and the solution I have heard in the past 15 years! Perhaps ever! It should be a simple fix, also. Hopefully, only one variable has to be changed in the code.

        Way to go!
         
        Stan Kozlowitz

        aa5xo@...
        aa5xo@...
        NNN0YSD@...

        731-487-3359


        From: Ian Wade G3NRW <g3nrw-radio@...>
        To: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 8:48 AM
        Subject: [V4Protocol] V4 1.0.3 bug -- TS-590S memory frequencies not read

         
        Hi Rick

        I have just been trying 1.0.3 with the TS-590S. You're nearly there, but
        you still don't get the T-shirt.

        Recall that earlier this year I reported that V4 does not always read
        the TS-590S display frequency. Yes, it does read the radio's frequency
        *if you are not using a memory channel*, but if you set the frequency
        from a memory channel, V4 does not recognize this.

        Well, the bug is still there in 1.0.3. As I mentioned before, this is
        because you are incorrectly reading the *VFO-A* frequency, with the
        "FA;" CAT command. When you select a TS-590S memory channel, the radio's
        *display* frequency will change, but the *VFO-A* frequency does not.

        Instead, you should be using the "IF;" command to read the radio's
        display frequency, not the "FA;" command. Then V4 will always be in step
        with the radio.

        See how Simon's HRD does it -- it uses "IF;" not "FA;" to get the
        display frequency, and it works fine with memory and non-memory channels
        alike.

        As I said before, V4 needs to display and log the frequency that is
        *actually* in use by the radio, regardless of whether it is a memory
        channel or not.

        --
        73
        Ian, G3NRW



      • Rick Muething
        Ian, I understand your comment but I think it has to work the way it does to support the click to tune and to follow the tuning knob features that were
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 19, 2012
          Ian,
           
          I understand your comment but I think it has to work the way it does to support the click to tune and to follow the tuning knob features that were requested:
           
          When you click an item in the mini contact log it will set the radio to that frequency (assuming a valid frequency is in the log) using the FA command...You wouldn’t want to set a memory location with that.

          When you rotate the tuning knob manually you want the waterfall display  to “track” showing the center RF frequency and that requires reading the FA since you are reading the currently tuned frequency not the saved memory.  The displayed frequency won’t change with a tuning knob rotation on a memory recall (unless it is transferred to VFO using the M>V button)
           
          When you click on  a nearby signal showing on the waterfall or spectrum display you want to change the VFO frequency to center that signal (to the red line) and that requires using the FA command.
           
          So I am not sure that reading the memory frequency (displayed frequency using the IF command) makes sense as the above 3 operations are based on the A VFO.   You can on the TS-590S of course simply do a Memory recall followed by a M>V push which transfers the memory contents to VFO which then permits the display, following the tuning knob and click to tune capability above. These are important features users have asked for.
           
          Also please try and remember that it is desirable to have the code behave the same way for each radio. There are a some areas where code changes for radio model/Manufacture changes are needed but when you get into reading and controlling memory banks you can be just about certain that is unique to each radio manufacturer and model.  For example the FA command and reply syntax is pretty universal for all Kenwoods and some other Manufacturers but the IF command and returned data syntax are more unique to radios like the TS-590S.  
           
          I want to keep the setup options minimized and having multiple ways of reading the frequency (Memory, VFO A, VFO B etc) are all possible but add confusion and complexity.   If you are using memory it is a simple one button push (M>V) to get it to the VFO and then all the other features continue to work.
           
          73,

          Rick KN6KB
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
          Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:48 AM
          Subject: [V4Protocol] V4 1.0.3 bug -- TS-590S memory frequencies not read
           
           

          Hi Rick

          I have just been trying 1.0.3 with the TS-590S. You're nearly there, but
          you still don't get the T-shirt.

          Recall that earlier this year I reported that V4 does not always read
          the TS-590S display frequency. Yes, it does read the radio's frequency
          *if you are not using a memory channel*, but if you set the frequency
          from a memory channel, V4 does not recognize this.

          Well, the bug is still there in 1.0.3. As I mentioned before, this is
          because you are incorrectly reading the *VFO-A* frequency, with the
          "FA;" CAT command. When you select a TS-590S memory channel, the radio's
          *display* frequency will change, but the *VFO-A* frequency does not.

          Instead, you should be using the "IF;" command to read the radio's
          display frequency, not the "FA;" command. Then V4 will always be in step
          with the radio.

          See how Simon's HRD does it -- it uses "IF;" not "FA;" to get the
          display frequency, and it works fine with memory and non-memory channels
          alike.

          As I said before, V4 needs to display and log the frequency that is
          *actually* in use by the radio, regardless of whether it is a memory
          channel or not.

          --
          73
          Ian, G3NRW

        • Rick Muething
          Stan, Its almost NEVER as simple as a one variable change! Reading the displayed memory value using “FA” breaks the existing and asked for features of
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 19, 2012
            Stan,
             
            Its almost NEVER as simple as a one variable change!   Reading the displayed memory value using “FA”  breaks the existing and asked for features of Click to tune and following the Tuning knob.  It also makes the frequency readout function require a different command and parsing than all other Kenwood models.
             
            The only way I can see is offering the user a more complex optional setup that ends up being unique for the TS-590S.
             
            You can make everything work now as-is with one additional button push on the TS-590S   “M>V”  after you recall a saved memory.
            See my explanation to Ian.
             
            73,
             
            Rick
             
            Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:05 AM
            Subject: Re: [V4Protocol] V4 1.0.3 bug -- TS-590S memory frequencies not read
             
             

            Ian,
            That is the best explanation of a problem and the solution I have heard in the past 15 years! Perhaps ever! It should be a simple fix, also. Hopefully, only one variable has to be changed in the code.

            Way to go!
             
            Stan Kozlowitz

            aa5xo@...
            aa5xo@...
            NNN0YSD@...

            731-487-3359
             

            From: Ian Wade G3NRW <g3nrw-radio@...>
            To: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 8:48 AM
            Subject: [V4Protocol] V4 1.0.3 bug -- TS-590S memory frequencies not read
             
             
            Hi Rick

            I have just been trying 1.0.3 with the TS-590S. You're nearly there, but
            you still don't get the T-shirt.

            Recall that earlier this year I reported that V4 does not always read
            the TS-590S display frequency. Yes, it does read the radio's frequency
            *if you are not using a memory channel*, but if you set the frequency
            from a memory channel, V4 does not recognize this.

            Well, the bug is still there in 1.0.3. As I mentioned before, this is
            because you are incorrectly reading the *VFO-A* frequency, with the
            "FA;" CAT command. When you select a TS-590S memory channel, the radio's
            *display* frequency will change, but the *VFO-A* frequency does not.

            Instead, you should be using the "IF;" command to read the radio's
            display frequency, not the "FA;" command. Then V4 will always be in step
            with the radio.

            See how Simon's HRD does it -- it uses "IF;" not "FA;" to get the
            display frequency, and it works fine with memory and non-memory channels
            alike.

            As I said before, V4 needs to display and log the frequency that is
            *actually* in use by the radio, regardless of whether it is a memory
            channel or not.

            --
            73
            Ian, G3NRW



          • Ian Wade G3NRW
            ___Original Message_________________________________________ From: Rick Muething Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 Time: 11:33:04 ... Correct.
            Message 5 of 8 , Jun 19, 2012
              ___Original Message_________________________________________
              From: Rick Muething <rmuething@...>
              Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 Time: 11:33:04


              >When you click an item in the mini contact log it will set the radio to that
              >frequency (assuming a valid frequency is in the log) using the FA
              >command...

              Correct.

              >You wouldn’t want to set a memory location with that.

              Correct. But I am talking about *reading* the radio's frequency, not
              *setting* it. I am not suggesting you try to change a memory location.

              >
              >
              >When you rotate the tuning knob manually you want the waterfall display 
              >to “track” showing the center RF frequency and that requires reading the
              >FA since you are reading the currently tuned frequency not the saved
              >memory.  The displayed frequency won’t change with a tuning knob
              >rotation on a memory recall (unless it is transferred to VFO using the M>V
              >button)

              Not correct. There is an option in the TS-590S (menu 18) that lets you
              override the memory. If menu 18 is set to ON, you can change the
              frequency with FA.

              >

              >When you click on  a nearby signal showing on the waterfall or spectrum
              >display you want to change the VFO frequency to center that signal (to
              >the red line) and that requires using the FA command.

              No problem, provided menu 18 is ON.

              >

              >So I am not sure that reading the memory frequency (displayed frequency
              >using the IF command) makes sense as the above 3 operations are based
              >on the A VFO.  


              >You can on the TS-590S of course simply do a Memory
              >recall followed by a M>V push which transfers the memory contents to
              >VFO which then permits the display, following the tuning knob and click to
              >tune capability above. These are important features users have asked for.


              All the user has to do is set menu 18 to ON, and your code will work for
              *setting* the VFO. No need for M>V.

              But I am talking about *reading* the radio's frequency, not *setting*
              it.

              >
              >
              [Snip]
              >
              >

              >I want to keep the setup options minimized and having multiple ways of
              >reading the frequency (Memory, VFO A, VFO B etc) are all possible but
              >add confusion and complexity.  

              With respect, it is *extremely* confusing when you see a frequency on
              the radio display that is totally unrelated to the center frequency on
              the V4 display. Above all, the radio display is what counts, and you
              need to bend V4 to fit.

              --
              73
              Ian, G3NRW
            • Stan Kozlowitz
              You are right, Rick.  I typed without much thought.  And I m sure extra features for one radio is not worth the effort.  Still, I don t think the option to
              Message 6 of 8 , Jun 19, 2012
                You are right, Rick.  I typed without much thought.  And I'm sure extra features for one radio is not worth the effort.  Still, I don't think the option to choose the existing feature or the click-to-tune feature would be too difficult to implement.  

                Thanks for all your hard work.
                 
                Stan Kozlowitz

                aa5xo@...
                aa5xo@...
                NNN0YSD@...

                731-487-3359


                From: Rick Muething <rmuething@...>
                To: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:41 AM
                Subject: Re: [V4Protocol] V4 1.0.3 bug -- TS-590S memory frequencies not read

                 
                Stan,
                 
                Its almost NEVER as simple as a one variable change!   Reading the displayed memory value using “FA”  breaks the existing and asked for features of Click to tune and following the Tuning knob.  It also makes the frequency readout function require a different command and parsing than all other Kenwood models.
                 
                The only way I can see is offering the user a more complex optional setup that ends up being unique for the TS-590S.
                 
                You can make everything work now as-is with one additional button push on the TS-590S   “M>V”  after you recall a saved memory.
                See my explanation to Ian.
                 
                73,
                 
                Rick
                 
                Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:05 AM
                Subject: Re: [V4Protocol] V4 1.0.3 bug -- TS-590S memory frequencies not read
                 
                 
                Ian,
                That is the best explanation of a problem and the solution I have heard in the past 15 years! Perhaps ever! It should be a simple fix, also. Hopefully, only one variable has to be changed in the code.

                Way to go!
                 
                Stan Kozlowitz

                aa5xo@...
                aa5xo@...
                NNN0YSD@...

                731-487-3359
                 

                From: Ian Wade G3NRW <g3nrw-radio@...>
                To: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 8:48 AM
                Subject: [V4Protocol] V4 1.0.3 bug -- TS-590S memory frequencies not read
                 
                 
                Hi Rick

                I have just been trying 1.0.3 with the TS-590S. You're nearly there, but
                you still don't get the T-shirt.

                Recall that earlier this year I reported that V4 does not always read
                the TS-590S display frequency. Yes, it does read the radio's frequency
                *if you are not using a memory channel*, but if you set the frequency
                from a memory channel, V4 does not recognize this.

                Well, the bug is still there in 1.0.3. As I mentioned before, this is
                because you are incorrectly reading the *VFO-A* frequency, with the
                "FA;" CAT command. When you select a TS-590S memory channel, the radio's
                *display* frequency will change, but the *VFO-A* frequency does not.

                Instead, you should be using the "IF;" command to read the radio's
                display frequency, not the "FA;" command. Then V4 will always be in step
                with the radio.

                See how Simon's HRD does it -- it uses "IF;" not "FA;" to get the
                display frequency, and it works fine with memory and non-memory channels
                alike.

                As I said before, V4 needs to display and log the frequency that is
                *actually* in use by the radio, regardless of whether it is a memory
                channel or not.

                --
                73
                Ian, G3NRW





              • Rick Muething
                Ian, Thanks. Setting menu 18 to “tunable” makes a big difference. Then it can work as I described. Rather than actually changing those menu settings in
                Message 7 of 8 , Jun 19, 2012
                  Ian,
                   
                  Thanks.
                   
                  Setting menu 18 to “tunable” makes a big difference. Then it can work as I described.  Rather than actually changing those menu settings in the program I’ll write it up in the Help setup for the TS-590S.  I don’t like to add more complexity there by changing more menu functions than are needed. The only downside is it takes special code since the readback and parsing are non standard (compared to other Kenwood models).  I’ll have to dig in and see if Icom has something equivalent on the 7200 and 7600.
                   
                  I’ll put the change it on my list....I wish however there was more time to work on some of the more critical things like improving the BER in weak conditions. Those kinds of enhancements benefit all users.
                   
                  Thanks again for the input.
                   
                  Rick KN6KB
                   
                   
                  Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 12:55 PM
                  Subject: Re: [V4Protocol] V4 1.0.3 bug -- TS-590S memory frequencies not read
                   
                   

                  ___Original Message_________________________________________
                  From: Rick Muething <mailto:rmuething%40cfl.rr.com>
                  Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 Time: 11:33:04

                  >
                  >When you click an item in
                  the mini contact log it will set the radio to that
                  >frequency (assuming a
                  valid frequency is in the log) using the FA
                  >command...

                  Correct.

                  >You wouldn’t want to set a
                  memory location with that.

                  Correct. But I am talking about *reading* the radio's frequency, not
                  *setting* it. I am not suggesting you try to change a memory location.

                  >
                  >
                  >When you rotate the tuning knob
                  manually you want the waterfall display
                  >to “track” showing the center RF
                  frequency and that requires reading the
                  >FA since you are reading the
                  currently tuned frequency not the saved
                  >memory.  The displayed
                  frequency won’t change with a tuning knob
                  >rotation on a memory recall
                  (unless it is transferred to VFO using the M>V
                  >button)

                  Not correct. There is an option in the TS-590S (menu 18) that lets you
                  override the memory. If menu 18 is set to ON, you can change the
                  frequency with FA.

                  >
                  >
                  >When you click on  a nearby signal showing
                  on the waterfall or spectrum
                  >display you want to change the VFO frequency
                  to center that signal (to
                  >the red line) and that requires using the FA
                  command.

                  No problem, provided menu 18 is ON.

                  >
                  >
                  >So I am not sure that reading the memory frequency (displayed
                  frequency
                  >using the IF command) makes sense as the above 3 operations are
                  based
                  >on the A VFO. 

                  >You can on the TS-590S of course
                  simply do a Memory
                  >recall followed by a M>V push which transfers the
                  memory contents to
                  >VFO which then permits the display, following the
                  tuning knob and click to
                  >tune capability above. These are important
                  features users have asked for.
                  >

                  All the user has to do is set menu 18 to ON, and your code will work for
                  *setting* the VFO. No need for M>V.

                  But I am talking about *reading* the radio's frequency, not *setting*
                  it.

                  >
                  >
                  [Snip]
                  >
                  >

                  >I
                  want to keep the setup options minimized and having multiple ways of
                  >reading the frequency (Memory, VFO A, VFO B etc) are all possible
                  but
                  >add confusion and complexity. 

                  With respect, it is *extremely* confusing when you see a frequency on
                  the radio display that is totally unrelated to the center frequency on
                  the V4 display. Above all, the radio display is what counts, and you
                  need to bend V4 to fit.

                  --
                  73
                  Ian, G3NRW

                • Ian Wade G3NRW
                  ___Original Message_________________________________________ From: Rick Muething Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 Time: 15:30:05 ... Rick Agreed
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jun 20, 2012
                    ___Original Message_________________________________________
                    From: Rick Muething <rmuething@...>
                    Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 Time: 15:30:05


                    >Setting menu 18 to “tunable” makes a big difference. Then it can work as I
                    >described.  Rather than actually changing those menu settings in the
                    >program I’ll write it up in the Help setup for the TS-590S.  I don’t like to add
                    >more complexity there by changing more menu functions than are needed.
                    >The only downside is it takes special code since the readback and parsing
                    >are non standard (compared to other Kenwood models).  I’ll have to dig in
                    >and see if Icom has something equivalent on the 7200 and 7600.

                    >I’ll put the change it on my list....I wish however there was more time to
                    >work on some of the more critical things like improving the BER in weak
                    >conditions. Those kinds of enhancements benefit all users.


                    Rick

                    Agreed on all points. And, yes, spending more time on improving weak
                    signal handling is much more important (and interesting!) than tweaking
                    CAT commands.

                    Good luck.

                    --
                    73
                    Ian, G3NRW
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