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Announcement -- TS-590S TechNote: SSB Audio Handling v1.0

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  • Ian Wade G3NRW
    TS-590S TechNote: SSB Audio Handling v1.0 ================================= I have posted a new TS-590S TechNote on the TS-590S Resources Page. The aims of the
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 21 11:55 PM
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      TS-590S TechNote: SSB Audio Handling v1.0
      =================================

      I have posted a new TS-590S TechNote on the TS-590S Resources Page.

      The aims of the TechNote are:
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      -- To summarize the many features built into the TS-590S for handling
      SSB audio.

      -- To dispel some of the myths and misunderstandings arising from
      Kenwood's inappropriate use of the word "DATA" in its documentation.
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Emphasis is on the *functionality* of the TS-590S, describing what the
      radio does, rather than how to operate it. For the most part, this
      document is not a HOWTO (although it does include step-by-step
      instructions for setting up TX and RX audio equalizer profiles using the
      ARCP-590 control program).

      The TechNote also includes detailed information on how TX keying works,
      insofar as how it determines which audio input the radio uses when
      transmitting.

      The document is a long one: 28 pages. Please take the time to read it
      thoroughly. It should present a consistent picture of how this wonderful
      radio works, and will hopefully clear up some of the misconceptions that
      have appeared on the reflectors from time to time.

      I must acknowledge the people who reviewed early drafts of the document:
      Steve London (N2IC), Frank Riley (KK0K), Don Snodgrass (KG9OM), Rob
      Stampfli (KD8WK), Joe Subich (W4TV) and Jose Maria Trueba (EA2JX). Their
      contributions helped me turn the very rough first draft into something
      much more readable. Many thanks gentlemen!

      To download the TechNote, go to the TS-590S Resources Page:

      http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wadei/ts-590s.htm

      Scroll down to the "TECHNOTES" section, then click on the link:

      "TS-590S TechNote: SSB Audio Handling".

      As usual, if you find any errors in the document, or anything that isn't
      clear, please get back to me.

      --
      73
      Ian, G3NRW

      The TS-590S Resources Page:
      http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wadei/ts-590s.htm
    • Rick Muething
      Wade, Than you ...I’ll try and read this in detail. It is something I have been looking for. It’s a shame such potential radios as the TS-590 and IC 7200
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 22 3:57 AM
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        Wade,
         
        Than you ...I’ll try and read this in detail. It is something I have been looking for. It’s a shame such potential radios as the TS-590 and IC 7200 with built in sound card capability are not well documented by their manufacturers.
         
        Rick KN6KB
         
         
        Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 2:55 AM
        Subject: [V4Protocol] Announcement -- TS-590S TechNote: SSB Audio Handling v1.0
         
         

        TS-590S TechNote: SSB Audio Handling v1.0
        =================================

        I have posted a new TS-590S TechNote on the TS-590S Resources Page.

        The aims of the TechNote are:
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        -- To summarize the many features built into the TS-590S for handling
        SSB audio.

        -- To dispel some of the myths and misunderstandings arising from
        Kenwood's inappropriate use of the word "DATA" in its documentation.
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        Emphasis is on the *functionality* of the TS-590S, describing what the
        radio does, rather than how to operate it. For the most part, this
        document is not a HOWTO (although it does include step-by-step
        instructions for setting up TX and RX audio equalizer profiles using the
        ARCP-590 control program).

        The TechNote also includes detailed information on how TX keying works,
        insofar as how it determines which audio input the radio uses when
        transmitting.

        The document is a long one: 28 pages. Please take the time to read it
        thoroughly. It should present a consistent picture of how this wonderful
        radio works, and will hopefully clear up some of the misconceptions that
        have appeared on the reflectors from time to time.

        I must acknowledge the people who reviewed early drafts of the document:
        Steve London (N2IC), Frank Riley (KK0K), Don Snodgrass (KG9OM), Rob
        Stampfli (KD8WK), Joe Subich (W4TV) and Jose Maria Trueba (EA2JX). Their
        contributions helped me turn the very rough first draft into something
        much more readable. Many thanks gentlemen!

        To download the TechNote, go to the TS-590S Resources Page:

        http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wadei/ts-590s.htm

        Scroll down to the "TECHNOTES" section, then click on the link:

        "TS-590S TechNote: SSB Audio Handling".

        As usual, if you find any errors in the document, or anything that isn't
        clear, please get back to me.

        --
        73
        Ian, G3NRW

        The TS-590S Resources Page:
        http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wadei/ts-590s.htm

      • Rick Muething
        Ian, I just had a chance to start reading the above document. EXCELLENT job on a much needed document. I will take some time and try and read through it all
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 23 4:30 AM
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          Ian,
           
          I just had a chance to start reading the above document. EXCELLENT job on a much needed document.  I will take some time and try and read through it all today .... I may have a question or two that would help me right the correct driver for the radio.
           
          In general what do you think of the TS-590 and have you compared it to the Icom 7200? We have had access to a IC-7200 for a while and it works well with the built in sound card (though I have to say the Icom documentation for that is next to nothing)... It seems almost like they (Icom...I think Kenwood is better) don’t really quite understand (or at least promote) the value that these radios offer in terms of simple connections and minimizing RF contamination of the audio.  I am trying to obtain a TS-590 that we can use for testing in WL2K and I think we can handle it from some of our corporate donors (www.arsfi.org )
           
          One thing I would be interested in too is if you have made any measurements (they aren’t easy to measure) of the sample rate accuracy of the built in sound card.  I suspect Kenwood and Icom are using a generic USB CODEC sound chip and many of these are designed to use a cheap xtal oscillator which is often not too accurate (or particularly stable)  My tests on several low cost “USB plug in sound cards” showed a range of +/- 2000 ppm and sometimes worse. But the average was usually better say +/- 200-400 ppm.   Strangely (I think it is a function of how the sound card chip creates the sample time base (or decimates the samples) the accuracy varies widely on the same chip/sound card depending on the sample rate. For example we found the “cardinal” sample rates of 12000, 48000, 96000 and 192000 were most accurate (typically +/- 400 ppm) but the other rates like 8000, 11025, 22050 and 44100 were sometimes much worse (up to +/- 8000 ppm in some cases).  The SignaLink USB fell into this category and was one reason I changed the initial sample rate in WINMOR which was 8000 initially to 48000/12000.   While such errors go almost unnoticed in things like voice for some DSP work like multi carrier PSK decoding they cause very big problems and can take a lot of CPU resources to correct especially over a wide audio bandwidth using multiple “carriers”.  To put in perspective the SCS modems (great but costly!) have a master time base in the +/- 10 ppm range...There is a reason they went to that trouble and expense.
           
          I have been keeping up with (and making occasional contributions to) the work on a open source Voice codec (good voice quality at about 1200 bits/sec and 1500 Hz bandwidth). This is being done by David Rowe in Australia and it would be a perfect fit for a radio like the TS-590.  David has achieved better performance than the proprietary CODEC used in the D-Star radios and I think will soon have the matching HF Modem ready for initial beta testing.
           
          Again great work on the much needed document and thanks for providing it!
           
          Rick KN6KB
           
          Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 2:55 AM
          Subject: [V4Protocol] Announcement -- TS-590S TechNote: SSB Audio Handling v1.0
           
           

          TS-590S TechNote: SSB Audio Handling v1.0
          =================================

          I have posted a new TS-590S TechNote on the TS-590S Resources Page.

          The aims of the TechNote are:
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          -- To summarize the many features built into the TS-590S for handling
          SSB audio.

          -- To dispel some of the myths and misunderstandings arising from
          Kenwood's inappropriate use of the word "DATA" in its documentation.
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          Emphasis is on the *functionality* of the TS-590S, describing what the
          radio does, rather than how to operate it. For the most part, this
          document is not a HOWTO (although it does include step-by-step
          instructions for setting up TX and RX audio equalizer profiles using the
          ARCP-590 control program).

          The TechNote also includes detailed information on how TX keying works,
          insofar as how it determines which audio input the radio uses when
          transmitting.

          The document is a long one: 28 pages. Please take the time to read it
          thoroughly. It should present a consistent picture of how this wonderful
          radio works, and will hopefully clear up some of the misconceptions that
          have appeared on the reflectors from time to time.

          I must acknowledge the people who reviewed early drafts of the document:
          Steve London (N2IC), Frank Riley (KK0K), Don Snodgrass (KG9OM), Rob
          Stampfli (KD8WK), Joe Subich (W4TV) and Jose Maria Trueba (EA2JX). Their
          contributions helped me turn the very rough first draft into something
          much more readable. Many thanks gentlemen!

          To download the TechNote, go to the TS-590S Resources Page:

          http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wadei/ts-590s.htm

          Scroll down to the "TECHNOTES" section, then click on the link:

          "TS-590S TechNote: SSB Audio Handling".

          As usual, if you find any errors in the document, or anything that isn't
          clear, please get back to me.

          --
          73
          Ian, G3NRW

          The TS-590S Resources Page:
          http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wadei/ts-590s.htm

        • siegfried jackstien
          ... Hello rick Keep us informed when a beta test version of the codec (and front-end fort he user) is available Dg9bfc Sigi (time for me to get a second
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 23 5:04 AM
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            > I have been keeping up with (and making occasional contributions to) the
            > work on a open source Voice codec (good voice quality at about 1200
            > bits/sec and 1500 Hz bandwidth). This is being done by David Rowe in
            > Australia and it would be a perfect fit for a radio like the TS-590.
            > David has achieved better performance than the proprietary CODEC used in
            > the D-Star radios and I think will soon have the matching HF Modem ready
            > for initial beta testing.

            Hello rick

            Keep us informed when a beta test version of the codec (and front-end fort
            he user) is available

            Dg9bfc

            Sigi

            (time for me to get a second soundcard for the headset *g*)
          • Ian Wade G3NRW
            ___Original Message_________________________________________ From: Rick Muething Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 Time: 07:30:28 ... Rick My
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 23 12:54 PM
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              ___Original Message_________________________________________
              From: Rick Muething <rmuething@...>
              Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 Time: 07:30:28

              >In general what do you think of the TS-590 and have you compared it to
              >the Icom 7200?

              Rick

              My thoughts on the TS-590S tally very closely with most of the reviews
              on Eham -- in other words, I am extremely happy with it all round (but
              especially the receiver, which is outstanding for a radio in this price
              bracket). I have no experience of the IC-7200, so I can't offer any
              comparison.

              >
              >One thing I would be interested in too is if you have made any
              >measurements (they aren’t easy to measure) of the sample rate accuracy
              >of the built in sound card. 

              [Snip]

              No, I haven't made any detailed sample rate accuracy measurements with
              the TS-590S or PC sound cards. That is something I want to look at in
              more detail. I have not played much with low-level signals or multiple
              carrier signals on this radio, where sampling accuracy can obviously
              make quite a difference.

              >
              >
              >I suspect Kenwood and Icom are using a
              >generic USB CODEC sound chip

              The TS-590S uses the PCM2903B stereo audio CODEC:

              http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm2903b.pdf

              >

              >I have been keeping up with (and making occasional contributions to) the
              >work on a open source Voice codec (good voice quality at about 1200
              >bits/sec and 1500 Hz bandwidth). This is being done by David Rowe in
              >Australia and it would be a perfect fit for a radio like the TS-590.  David has
              >achieved better performance than the proprietary CODEC used in the
              >D-Star radios and I think will soon have the matching HF Modem ready for
              >initial beta testing.

              The whole world is very much looking forward to this!

              Finally, all your comments are most interesting -- sorry I can't add
              much to them.

              --
              73
              Ian, G3NRW
            • Rick Muething
              Thanks Ian, If I recall there is a fairly simple utility in Mix W that does a fair job of estimating Sound card sample rate. It uses the internal clock of the
              Message 6 of 8 , Apr 23 1:35 PM
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                Thanks Ian,
                 
                If I recall there is a fairly simple utility in Mix W that does a fair job of estimating Sound card sample rate. It uses the internal clock of the PC To calculate sound card sample rate over many thousand samples to get some form of a long term average.  I guess the typical reference clock (time of day clock) in the PC is more accurate than typical sound card sample rate clocks and you get fairly repeatable results with this utility. Its probably not as good as using WWV or precision references but  its easy to use and set up.  I’ll try and run some tests on the 7200 later in the week.
                 
                Rick KN6KB
                 
                Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 3:54 PM
                Subject: Re: [V4Protocol] Announcement -- TS-590S TechNote: SSB Audio Handling v1.0
                 
                 

                ___Original Message_________________________________________
                From: Rick Muething <mailto:rmuething%40cfl.rr.com>
                Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 Time: 07:30:28

                >In general what do you think of the
                TS-590 and have you compared it to
                >the Icom 7200?

                Rick

                My thoughts on the TS-590S tally very closely with most of the reviews
                on Eham -- in other words, I am extremely happy with it all round (but
                especially the receiver, which is outstanding for a radio in this price
                bracket). I have no experience of the IC-7200, so I can't offer any
                comparison.

                >
                >One thing I would be interested in too is if
                you have made any
                >measurements (they aren’t easy to measure) of the
                sample rate accuracy
                >of the built in sound card.

                [Snip]

                No, I haven't made any detailed sample rate accuracy measurements with
                the TS-590S or PC sound cards. That is something I want to look at in
                more detail. I have not played much with low-level signals or multiple
                carrier signals on this radio, where sampling accuracy can obviously
                make quite a difference.

                >
                >
                >I suspect
                Kenwood and Icom are using a
                >generic USB CODEC sound chip

                The TS-590S uses the PCM2903B stereo audio CODEC:

                http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm2903b.pdf

                >
                >
                >I have been keeping up with (and making occasional contributions to)
                the
                >work on a open source Voice codec (good voice quality at about
                1200
                >bits/sec and 1500 Hz bandwidth). This is being done by David Rowe
                in
                >Australia and it would be a perfect fit for a radio like the
                TS-590.  David has
                >achieved better performance than the proprietary
                CODEC used in the
                >D-Star radios and I think will soon have the matching
                HF Modem ready for
                >initial beta testing.

                The whole world is very much looking forward to this!

                Finally, all your comments are most interesting -- sorry I can't add
                much to them.

                --
                73
                Ian, G3NRW

              • siegfried jackstien
                Multipsk also has such a fuction My onboard shows 47999 or 48000 when doin several tests ... so my soundchip seems to be
                Message 7 of 8 , Apr 24 2:05 PM
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                  Multipsk also has such a fuction

                  My onboard shows 47999 or 48000 when doin several tests ... so my soundchip
                  seems to be

                  > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                  > Von: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com [mailto:V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com] Im
                  > Auftrag von Rick Muething
                  > Gesendet: Montag, 23. April 2012 20:35
                  > An: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com
                  > Betreff: Re: [V4Protocol] Announcement -- TS-590S TechNote: SSB Audio
                  > Handling v1.0
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Thanks Ian,
                  >
                  > If I recall there is a fairly simple utility in Mix W that does a fair job
                  > of estimating Sound card sample rate. It uses the internal clock of the PC
                  > To calculate sound card sample rate over many thousand samples to get some
                  > form of a long term average. I guess the typical reference clock (time of
                  > day clock) in the PC is more accurate than typical sound card sample rate
                  > clocks and you get fairly repeatable results with this utility. Its
                  > probably not as good as using WWV or precision references but its easy to
                  > use and set up. I’ll try and run some tests on the 7200 later in the
                  > week.
                  >
                  > Rick KN6KB
                  >
                  > From: Ian Wade G3NRW <mailto:g3nrw-radio@...>
                  > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 3:54 PM
                  > To: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [V4Protocol] Announcement -- TS-590S TechNote: SSB Audio
                  > Handling v1.0
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ___Original Message_________________________________________
                  > From: Rick Muething <mailto:rmuething%40cfl.rr.com>
                  > Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 Time: 07:30:28
                  >
                  > >In general what do you think of the TS-590 and have you compared it to
                  > >the Icom 7200?
                  >
                  > Rick
                  >
                  > My thoughts on the TS-590S tally very closely with most of the reviews
                  > on Eham -- in other words, I am extremely happy with it all round (but
                  > especially the receiver, which is outstanding for a radio in this price
                  > bracket). I have no experience of the IC-7200, so I can't offer any
                  > comparison.
                  >
                  > >
                  > >One thing I would be interested in too is if you have made any
                  > >measurements (they aren’t easy to measure) of the sample rate accuracy
                  > >of the built in sound card.
                  >
                  > [Snip]
                  >
                  > No, I haven't made any detailed sample rate accuracy measurements with
                  > the TS-590S or PC sound cards. That is something I want to look at in
                  > more detail. I have not played much with low-level signals or multiple
                  > carrier signals on this radio, where sampling accuracy can obviously
                  > make quite a difference.
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >I suspect Kenwood and Icom are using a
                  > >generic USB CODEC sound chip
                  >
                  > The TS-590S uses the PCM2903B stereo audio CODEC:
                  >
                  > http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm2903b.pdf
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >I have been keeping up with (and making occasional contributions to) the
                  > >work on a open source Voice codec (good voice quality at about 1200
                  > >bits/sec and 1500 Hz bandwidth). This is being done by David Rowe in
                  > >Australia and it would be a perfect fit for a radio like the TS-590.
                  > David has
                  > >achieved better performance than the proprietary CODEC used in the
                  > >D-Star radios and I think will soon have the matching HF Modem ready for
                  > >initial beta testing.
                  >
                  > The whole world is very much looking forward to this!
                  >
                  > Finally, all your comments are most interesting -- sorry I can't add
                  > much to them.
                  >
                  > --
                  > 73
                  > Ian, G3NRW
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • tuxsteveo
                  When I open up my signalink it has a PCM2904 in it. I have looked at both the PCM2903a and PCM2904 spec sheets and the only differences I see is one works and
                  Message 8 of 8 , Apr 24 2:50 PM
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                    When I open up my signalink it has a PCM2904 in it. I have looked at both the PCM2903a and PCM2904 spec sheets and the only differences I see is one works and 3.3 volts and one works at 5 volts.
                    Rick if you were to port the 590 to the trimode you would need toggle menu 63 to the port you wanted to transmit on acc for pactor and usb for winmor. You would also have to have menu 69 on for data vox for winmor to work. You could also get into the filters also. I have RMSE working on both Winmor internal sound card and Pactor with a SCS ProII on the acc port the will both receive at the same time. Winmor works great on the 590.(V4 also!!!)

                    73 Steve N9LOH

                    --- In V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com, Ian Wade G3NRW <g3nrw-radio@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > ___Original Message_________________________________________
                    > From: Rick Muething <rmuething@...>
                    > Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 Time: 07:30:28
                    >
                    > >In general what do you think of the TS-590 and have you compared it to
                    > >the Icom 7200?
                    >
                    > Rick
                    >
                    > My thoughts on the TS-590S tally very closely with most of the reviews
                    > on Eham -- in other words, I am extremely happy with it all round (but
                    > especially the receiver, which is outstanding for a radio in this price
                    > bracket). I have no experience of the IC-7200, so I can't offer any
                    > comparison.
                    >
                    > >
                    > >One thing I would be interested in too is if you have made any
                    > >measurements (they aren’t easy to measure) of the sample rate accuracy
                    > >of the built in sound card. 
                    >
                    > [Snip]
                    >
                    > No, I haven't made any detailed sample rate accuracy measurements with
                    > the TS-590S or PC sound cards. That is something I want to look at in
                    > more detail. I have not played much with low-level signals or multiple
                    > carrier signals on this radio, where sampling accuracy can obviously
                    > make quite a difference.
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >I suspect Kenwood and Icom are using a
                    > >generic USB CODEC sound chip
                    >
                    > The TS-590S uses the PCM2903B stereo audio CODEC:
                    >
                    > http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm2903b.pdf
                    >
                    > >
                    > > 
                    > >I have been keeping up with (and making occasional contributions to) the
                    > >work on a open source Voice codec (good voice quality at about 1200
                    > >bits/sec and 1500 Hz bandwidth). This is being done by David Rowe in
                    > >Australia and it would be a perfect fit for a radio like the TS-590.  David has
                    > >achieved better performance than the proprietary CODEC used in the
                    > >D-Star radios and I think will soon have the matching HF Modem ready for
                    > >initial beta testing.
                    >
                    > The whole world is very much looking forward to this!
                    >
                    > Finally, all your comments are most interesting -- sorry I can't add
                    > much to them.
                    >
                    > --
                    > 73
                    > Ian, G3NRW
                    >
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