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AW: [V4Protocol] Re: Calling CQ

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  • siegfried jackstien
    What is the timer setting in the modem ??? If you have longer fading times (depends on condition) then it is ok to make the time a bit longer (to stay
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 30, 2011
      What is the timer setting in the modem ???
      If you have longer fading times (depends on condition) then it is ok to make
      the time a bit longer (to stay connected in a fade-out phase)
      It does not hurt to make it longer cause that timer is only active if condx
      are bad ... and if the other station is really gone or condx are gone down
      absolutely then also the longer timer will count down to zero and cut the
      link
      Dg9bfc
      Sigi


      > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
      > Von: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com [mailto:V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com] Im
      > Auftrag von Tomas Hood
      > Gesendet: Freitag, 30. Dezember 2011 01:46
      > An: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com
      > Betreff: Re: [V4Protocol] Re: Calling CQ
      >
      >
      >
      > In my experience, so far, I have had QSOs start (link established), only
      > to fail after fades occur. I could see the signal on the waterfall, but
      > the modem would not stay connected. I'm using the software as installed
      > "out of the box" -- I have only decreased the squelch, trying to see if
      > that would help. But, so far, this has been rather disappointing. No
      > other mode (Olivia, MT63, MFSK, PSK31, Contestia...) is this touchy.
      >
      > I've had ONE and only one qso that worked start to end without issue - and
      > the signal was strong with little fading.
      >
      > Not sure what it is. Perhaps there's something in my settings?? I don't
      > know what to change.
      >
      >
      > On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 5:25 PM, siegfried jackstien
      > <siegfried.jackstien@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > No ... i made stable contacts with s0 (with preamp on!!) ... signal
      > barely
      > noticeable
      > Starting a link when condx are low is a bit difficult ... but when
      > the link
      > is alive then it is stable as uhf packet (almost)
      > Dg9bfc
      > Sigi
      >
      > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
      > > Von: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:V4Protocol%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:V4Protocol%40yahoogroups.com> ] Im
      > > Auftrag von Tomas Hood
      > > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 29. Dezember 2011 23:43
      > > An: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:V4Protocol%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > Betreff: [V4Protocol] Re: Calling CQ
      >
      >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yeah, it would so help if folks would post the frequency on which
      > they
      > > are calling.
      > >
      > > I've so far not been impressed with this mode. Not so much in the
      > > lack of users, but, when I do hear users, they seem to be too weak
      > for
      > > this mode to work properly. Under the same conditions, other modes
      > > work much better. Unless something is wrong with my installation,
      > I
      > > think this mode requires PERFECT conditions, and s-9 signals.
      > >
      > > --
      > > Tomas David Hood (Amateur Radio, NW7US)
      > > <http://NW7US.us/>
      > >
      > > Contributing editor, Propagation Column:
      > > CQ Magazine, CQ VHF, Popular Communications
      > >
      > > Space Weather: <http://sunspotwatch.com/>
      > >
      > > Twitter Space WX : @hfradiospacewx
      > > Twitter NW7US : @NW7US
      > > Twitter my music: @TomasMusic
      > >
      > > Linux User #32405 - Since 1996
      > >
      > > The information contained in this communication is confidential,
      > > proprietary, and intended for the addressee(s). If you are not the
      > > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
      > > dissemination, distribution or copying of the communication, or
      > > unauthorized use is strictly prohibited. If you are not the
      > intended
      > > recipient, please delete this message and DO NOT ACT UPON,
      > FORWARD,
      > > COPY, OR OTHERWISE DISSEMINATE IT OR ITS CONTENT
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --
      > Tomas David Hood (Amateur Radio, NW7US)
      > <http://NW7US.us/>
      >
      > Contributing editor, Propagation Column:
      > CQ Magazine, CQ VHF, Popular Communications
      >
      > Space Weather: <http://sunspotwatch.com/>
      >
      > Twitter Space WX : @hfradiospacewx
      > Twitter NW7US : @NW7US
      > Twitter my music: @TomasMusic
      >
      > Linux User #32405 - Since 1996
      >
      > The information contained in this communication is confidential,
      > proprietary, and intended for the addressee(s). If you are not the
      > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
      > dissemination, distribution or copying of the communication, or
      > unauthorized use is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
      > recipient, please delete this message and DO NOT ACT UPON, FORWARD, COPY,
      > OR OTHERWISE DISSEMINATE IT OR ITS CONTENT
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Tomas Hood
      OK, thank you - I will change my timer setting. Are there any other settings that would help it to decode? Many times with the fading and weaker signal, it
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 30, 2011
        OK, thank you - I will change my timer setting.  Are there any other settings that would help it to decode?  Many times with the fading and weaker signal, it just retries and retries.  How can that be improved upon?

        On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 3:21 AM, siegfried jackstien <siegfried.jackstien@...> wrote:

        What is the timer setting in the modem ???
        If you have longer fading times (depends on condition) then it is ok to make
        the time a bit longer (to stay connected in a fade-out phase)
        It does not hurt to make it longer cause that timer is only active if condx
        are bad ... and if the other station is really gone or condx are gone down
        absolutely then also the longer timer will count down to zero and cut the
        link

        > to fail after fades occur. I could see the signal on the waterfall, but
        > the modem would not stay connected. I'm using the software as installed
        > "out of the box" -- I have only decreased the squelch, trying to see if
        > that would help. But, so far, this has been rather disappointing. No
        > other mode (Olivia, MT63, MFSK, PSK31, Contestia...) is this touchy.
        >
        > I've had ONE and only one qso that worked start to end without issue - and
        > the signal was strong with little fading.
        >
        > Not sure what it is. Perhaps there's something in my settings?? I don't
        > know what to change.



        --
        Tomas David Hood (Amateur Radio, NW7US)
        <http://NW7US.us/>

        Contributing editor, Propagation Column:
         CQ Magazine, CQ VHF, Popular Communications

        Space Weather: <http://sunspotwatch.com/>

        Twitter Space WX : @hfradiospacewx
        Twitter NW7US : @NW7US

      • siegfried jackstien
        Myabe you underdrive your soundcard ??? How is the signal level?? Dg9bfc Sigi
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 30, 2011
          Myabe you "underdrive" your soundcard ???
          How is the signal level??
          Dg9bfc
          Sigi


          > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
          > Von: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com [mailto:V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com] Im
          > Auftrag von Tomas Hood
          > Gesendet: Freitag, 30. Dezember 2011 11:51
          > An: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com
          > Betreff: Re: [V4Protocol] Re: Calling CQ
          >
          >
          >
          > OK, thank you - I will change my timer setting. Are there any other
          > settings that would help it to decode? Many times with the fading and
          > weaker signal, it just retries and retries. How can that be improved
          > upon?
          >
          >
          > On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 3:21 AM, siegfried jackstien
          > <siegfried.jackstien@...> wrote:
          >
          > What is the timer setting in the modem ???
          > If you have longer fading times (depends on condition) then it is ok
          > to make
          > the time a bit longer (to stay connected in a fade-out phase)
          > It does not hurt to make it longer cause that timer is only active
          > if condx
          > are bad ... and if the other station is really gone or condx are
          > gone down
          > absolutely then also the longer timer will count down to zero and
          > cut the
          > link
          >
          > > to fail after fades occur. I could see the signal on the
          > waterfall, but
          > > the modem would not stay connected. I'm using the software as
          > installed
          > > "out of the box" -- I have only decreased the squelch, trying to
          > see if
          > > that would help. But, so far, this has been rather disappointing.
          > No
          > > other mode (Olivia, MT63, MFSK, PSK31, Contestia...) is this
          > touchy.
          > >
          > > I've had ONE and only one qso that worked start to end without
          > issue - and
          > > the signal was strong with little fading.
          > >
          > > Not sure what it is. Perhaps there's something in my settings?? I
          > don't
          > > know what to change.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > Tomas David Hood (Amateur Radio, NW7US)
          > <http://NW7US.us/>
          >
          > Contributing editor, Propagation Column:
          > CQ Magazine, CQ VHF, Popular Communications
          >
          > Space Weather: <http://sunspotwatch.com/>
          >
          > Twitter Space WX : @hfradiospacewx
          > Twitter NW7US : @NW7US
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Rick Muething
          Peter, I agree with you and that is one of the reasons for this forum and reflector. I have spend many hours (probably over a man year of effort) on V4 and
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 30, 2011
            Peter,
             
            I agree with you and that is one of the reasons for this forum and reflector.  I have spend many hours (probably over a man year of effort) on V4 and V4Chat and am continually trying to improve it by performance tweaks and asked for features.   I check and verify the sensitivity and robustness of every release on a hardware HF channel simulator on a very poor channel (Multipath poor at –5dB S/N) ... the worst CCIR channel the HF simulator models. Most of the problems people have can be traced to some rather common ones mentioned in the Help files:
                RF Feedback to the audio (check the help for suggestions)
                Improper PTT keying or timing (latency measured and reported on each CQ or Station call)
                Improper Audio drive (Drive to approx 70% of rated PEP output)
                Improper Receive audio level (should be in the green preferably about mid scale).
                Tuning is automatic within the set tuning range (default +/- 100 Hz)
                Not understanding the concept and proper operation of ARQ modes (described in the Help)
             
            I would be more than happy putting a set of recommend frequencies in the help if we can agree on them.  I think using the reflector is a good start for that.
             
            Rick Muething, KN6KB
             
               
          • Tomas Hood
            It is the receive that has the problem; I can be monitoring other stations in QSO, and only get partial decode, at best. On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 4:59 AM,
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 30, 2011
              It is the receive that has the problem; I can be monitoring other stations in QSO, and only get partial decode, at best.

              On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 4:59 AM, siegfried jackstien <siegfried.jackstien@...> wrote:

              Myabe you "underdrive" your soundcard ???
              How is the signal level??



              --
              Tomas David Hood (Amateur Radio, NW7US)
              <http://NW7US.us/>

              Contributing editor, Propagation Column:
               CQ Magazine, CQ VHF, Popular Communications

              Space Weather: <http://sunspotwatch.com/>

              Twitter Space WX : @hfradiospacewx
              Twitter NW7US : @NW7US

            • Rick Muething
              Tomas, If you are monitoring an ARQ QSO you will likely not get all the QSO since you cannot request a repeat while monitoring as the connected station can.
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 30, 2011
                Tomas,
                 
                If you are monitoring an ARQ QSO you will likely not get all the QSO since you cannot request a repeat while monitoring as the connected station can.  The V4 Software should filter out repeats (so they don’t duplicate on the printing) but when monitoring it depends on how good the signal is as to whether it will capture and tune and how many errors are present.
                 
                You should be close to the frequency ...the monitored signal should be near the center of the waterfall. Make sure the V4 TNC’s  internal filter is IN (see the help) and it may help to use a narrow (200 Hz or greater) filter on receive if you have one (centered on the signal).  Your AGC should be fast to medium and the signal level on the V4 TNC receive level indicator should be “in the green”.
                 
                The received signal offset should be fairly close as measured by the freq offset on the TNC ...definitively must be < the tuning range you have selected. Note of course when monitoring you must be able to auto tune to BOTH stations of the QSO.
                 
                Also note you have some control over the leader detection threshold...that is the DSP logic that detects and tunes the two tone leader signal at the start of every frame.  Setting the squelch to values of 3 or 4 will make it more sensitive but also occasionally “trip” on noise. See the help re the Squelch setting.
                 
                73,

                Rick KN6KB
                 
                 
                Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 12:24 PM
                Subject: Re: [V4Protocol] Re: Calling CQ
                 
                 

                It is the receive that has the problem; I can be monitoring other stations in QSO, and only get partial decode, at best.

                On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 4:59 AM, siegfried jackstien <siegfried.jackstien@...> wrote:

                Myabe you "underdrive" your soundcard ???
                How is the signal level??

                 
                 
                --
                Tomas David Hood (Amateur Radio, NW7US)
                <http://NW7US.us/>

                Contributing editor, Propagation Column:
                CQ Magazine, CQ VHF, Popular Communications

                Space Weather: <http://sunspotwatch.com/>

                Twitter Space WX : @hfradiospacewx
                Twitter NW7US : @NW7US

              • Tomas Hood
                Well, I have egg on my face; I am sure, now, that my newby status is in plain evidence. My receive audio level, while great for all other modes, was not in
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 30, 2011
                  Well, I have egg on my face; I am sure, now, that my newby status is in plain evidence.  My receive audio level, while great for all other modes, was not in the green for the V4 modem.  It was just under.  So, I am increasing my receive audio to place it about 1/3 in the green.  Now I just await someone on 14.073 whith whom I can make a QSO.

                  Thank you for such simple and timely help.

                  On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 10:43 AM, Rick Muething <rmuething@...> wrote:

                  Your AGC should be fast to medium and the signal level on the V4 TNC receive level indicator should be “in the green”.

                  -- 
                  Tomas David Hood (Amateur Radio, NW7US)
                  <http://NW7US.us/>

                  Contributing editor, Propagation Column:
                   CQ Magazine, CQ VHF, Popular Communications

                  Space Weather: <http://sunspotwatch.com/>

                  Twitter Space WX : @hfradiospacewx
                  Twitter NW7US : @NW7US

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