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Re: [V4Protocol] 20m 14.073 dial - hope to try V4chat, today

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  • Tomas Hood
    OK, that time, it decoded KJ5XF, so I called ARQ back to KJ5XF - but the signal coming back faded again. ... -- Tomas David Hood (Amateur Radio, NW7US)
    Message 1 of 23 , Dec 10, 2011
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      OK, that time, it decoded KJ5XF, so I called ARQ back to KJ5XF - but the signal coming back faded again.

      On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 4:18 PM, Tomas Hood <nw7us.heliophile@...> wrote:
      I hear someone calling, and it shows busy; I have reduced the squelch, but now it is not decoding any text.  Before, it was decoding (while I was not here in person).  So I think the signal I am picking up is not strong enough??


      On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 4:12 PM, Tomas Hood <nw7us.heliophile@...> wrote:
      I was away from the computer screen.  I am there now.  I can now connect if called.


      On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 2:53 PM, ted world <kc5nyj@...> wrote:
       

      I get connected but then nothing



      On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Dick Lamberson <w4web@...> wrote:
       

      I finally got his station and left him my name, qth and rig stuff - but he was not at the keyboard...
      Thanks,
      Dick
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 4:09 PM
      Subject: Re: [V4Protocol] 20m 14.073 dial - hope to try V4chat, today

       

      Yuh Dick,
       
      I tried calling Tomas about 2030Z and no response of course I'm in New England and he's in Montana, maybe propagation isn't good.
       
      Fred, W1WYC
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 4:04 PM
      Subject: Re: [V4Protocol] 20m 14.073 dial - hope to try V4chat, today

       

      I've been calling you for several minutes - but no response... Could you have something set up incorrectly? 
      Just wondering?
      73
      Dick
      14073.00 dial
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: NW7US
      Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 2:54 PM
      Subject: [V4Protocol] 20m 14.073 dial - hope to try V4chat, today

       

      I will be monitoring 14.073 dial frequency, CF: 14074.500, USB, today, hoping to catch someone on V4. I've not yet found anyone on this mode. I'm hoping to try this mode and see for myself what it is like. I'm interested in perhaps writing about it in my CQ Propagation column (or perhaps in PopComm). I suspect that it would be helpful to drum up some activity. One of the issued I am having is that the Help documentation does not indicate any frequencies suggested for where people ought to tune on each of the bands. And, searching the messages is not as forth-coming as one would expect...

      Here's to hoping...

      73 de NW7US





      --
      Tomas David Hood (Amateur Radio, NW7US)
      <http://NW7US.us/>

      Contributing editor, Propagation Column:
       CQ Magazine, CQ VHF, Popular Communications

      Space Weather: <http://sunspotwatch.com/>

      Twitter Space WX : @hfradiospacewx
      Twitter NW7US : @NW7US
      Twitter my music: @TomasMusic

      Linux User #32405 - Since 1996

      The information contained in this communication is confidential, proprietary, and intended for the addressee(s).  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, dissemination, distribution or copying of the communication, or unauthorized use is strictly prohibited.  If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message and DO NOT ACT UPON, FORWARD, COPY, OR OTHERWISE DISSEMINATE IT OR ITS CONTENT




      --
      Tomas David Hood (Amateur Radio, NW7US)
      <http://NW7US.us/>

      Contributing editor, Propagation Column:
       CQ Magazine, CQ VHF, Popular Communications

      Space Weather: <http://sunspotwatch.com/>

      Twitter Space WX : @hfradiospacewx
      Twitter NW7US : @NW7US
      Twitter my music: @TomasMusic

      Linux User #32405 - Since 1996

      The information contained in this communication is confidential, proprietary, and intended for the addressee(s).  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, dissemination, distribution or copying of the communication, or unauthorized use is strictly prohibited.  If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message and DO NOT ACT UPON, FORWARD, COPY, OR OTHERWISE DISSEMINATE IT OR ITS CONTENT




      --
      Tomas David Hood (Amateur Radio, NW7US)
      <http://NW7US.us/>

      Contributing editor, Propagation Column:
       CQ Magazine, CQ VHF, Popular Communications

      Space Weather: <http://sunspotwatch.com/>

      Twitter Space WX : @hfradiospacewx
      Twitter NW7US : @NW7US
      Twitter my music: @TomasMusic

      Linux User #32405 - Since 1996

      The information contained in this communication is confidential, proprietary, and intended for the addressee(s).  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, dissemination, distribution or copying of the communication, or unauthorized use is strictly prohibited.  If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message and DO NOT ACT UPON, FORWARD, COPY, OR OTHERWISE DISSEMINATE IT OR ITS CONTENT

    • Tomas Hood
      So, KJ5XF - score was 14, sometimes 27, S/N dB:-20 and we just got disconnected. The QSB fade is slow and deep. I am running about 60w. It does look like a
      Message 2 of 23 , Dec 10, 2011
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        So, KJ5XF - score was 14, sometimes 27, S/N dB:-20 and we just got disconnected.  The QSB fade is slow and deep.  I am running about 60w.  It does look like a great mode but I think it needs more reliable (less fading on) conditions.



        --
        Tomas David Hood (Amateur Radio, NW7US)
        <http://NW7US.us/>

        Contributing editor, Propagation Column:
         CQ Magazine, CQ VHF, Popular Communications

        Space Weather: <http://sunspotwatch.com/>

        Twitter Space WX : @hfradiospacewx
        Twitter NW7US : @NW7US

        Linux User #32405 - Since 1996


      • kb3cs
        it s cool you guys are attempting an online meta-chat about your QSO attempts, but i really think there are better-suited real-time online communications
        Message 3 of 23 , Dec 11, 2011
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          it's cool you guys are attempting an online meta-chat about your QSO attempts, but i really think there are better-suited real-time online communications mechanisms:

          1. the K3UK sked page
          - http://www.obriensweb.com/sked/index.php?board=digitalradio
          or
          - http://www.obriensweb.com/sked/index.php?board=lotw

          2. IRC irc://chat.freenode.net/##hamradio

          (3., 4. and so on .. AOL chat, Echolink, N3GLV's voipqso.com, ..)

          have fun!

          --- In V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com, Tomas Hood <nw7us.heliophile@...> wrote:
          >
          > So, KJ5XF - score was 14, sometimes 27, S/N dB:-20 and we just got
          > disconnected. The QSB fade is slow and deep. I am running about 60w. It
          > does look like a great mode but I think it needs more reliable (less fading
          > on) conditions.
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > Tomas David Hood (Amateur Radio, NW7US)
          > <http://NW7US.us/>
          >
          > Contributing editor, Propagation Column:
          > CQ Magazine, CQ VHF, Popular Communications
          >
          > Space Weather: <http://sunspotwatch.com/>
          >
          > Twitter Space WX : @hfradiospacewx
          > Twitter NW7US : @NW7US
          >
          > Linux User #32405 - Since 1996
          >
        • Rick Muething
          Thomas/All, Thanks for the feedback. I think it is important to look back over the last year and comment on some things about V4 and V4 chat, where we are in
          Message 4 of 23 , Dec 11, 2011
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            Thomas/All,
             
            Thanks for the feedback. 
             
            I think it is important to look back over the last year and comment on some things about V4 and V4 chat, where we are in the development and what we have accomplished this past year since we started alpha testing.
             
            1) V4 is the actual protocol. It’s documented, can run ARQ or FEC modes and is generally useable down to a level of about –5 to –8  dB S/N (based on the standard 3 KHz Noise bandwidth) over most channels including poor multipath.
             
            2) The V4 TNC is a “helper” program that implements the Virtual V4 TNC...essentially creating the equivalent of a hardware TNC using the V4 TNC software and a common PC sound card. The V4 TNC is set up to be able to be easily used by other programs (V4Chat is one example).
             
            3) V4Chat is the client. It implements all the user interface and text functionality. It determines how you type to send, what and how data is displayed, how you call and answer CQs, the timeouts,  radio control, logging, etc. It uses the V4 TNC but any other client could also use the V4 TNC and implement a different user interface. There is no “right” or perfect GUI and V4Chat tries to accommodate most user preferences while keeping things fairly easy to set up and operate (always a challenge!) .  What you see now is the result of over a year of Alpha/Beta testing and user feedback...the task is really never done and I am always open to thoughtful suggestions for improvement.
             
            4) It is important I think to understand and maintain the differences between a keyboard oriented protocol and client (one that is normally manned at each end) and what I’ll call a message protocol/client where messages are sent and stored and usually at least one end (the server) is unattended. Both those have their uses and fans but it can be difficult or inefficient to make one program do both. For example The V4 TNC could be used in either a simple message system or in a keyboard oriented program like V4Chat but it is difficult, and can be inefficient and confusing to try and do both in one client.  There are already a number of message based Clients/Servers that use sound card modes like WINMOR (RMS Express, BPQ32 etc. ) ...I don’t know that we need any others for the V4 protocol. 
             
            5)  I want to add some nice features especially for the international users like multi-byte character support (UTF-8) which would support foreign fonts and characters. I also know from experience with WINMOR we can expect incremental but significant improvements in sensitivity and reliability under poor propagation conditions. This is one of the great benefits in doing all the signal processing in the software. But it takes lots of work and testing to gain each dB or 2!
             
            6) I would really like over the next year to be able to support other OS and devices (perhaps some tablets).  This is not a trivial effort and any volunteers with experience with Mono (translation of MS VB.NET code to Linux) or expertise in Mac OS or Java and the Android OS would be much welcomed. I am willing to share source code and offer encouragement but such projects require skill, experience and commitment...it is not a 2 week effort!
             
            Finally, A special thanks to the over 950 in our V4Protocol group that have contributed to the V4 experiment, development and testing this last year. Best wishes to all for a Merry Christmas and Happy Holiday season.
             
             
            73,

            Rick Muething, KN6KB
             
          • Paul Whitaker
            Hi Rick, Thanks for that re-cap on the year of V4 ! Yes, its been a very interesting and rewarding process, thank you for all your effort and patience ! My
            Message 5 of 23 , Dec 11, 2011
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              Hi Rick,

              Thanks for that re-cap on the year of V4 !
              Yes, its been a very interesting and rewarding process, thank you for all your effort and patience !

              My only other comment would be that inclusion in RMS Express would round it off nicely - EMail and Chat in the one package.....

              Anyhow, all the very best to you & all the members of the group for the festive season from down under !

              Will be watching out for your tones....

              '73

              Paul Whitaker.
              VK3DPW

            • Paul
              In regards to #4 would you entertain a simple file transfer as part of the chat process? The only reason I am asking is that what we need for some Emergency
              Message 6 of 23 , Dec 11, 2011
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                In regards to #4 would you entertain a simple file transfer as part of the chat process? The only reason I am asking is that what we need for some Emergency Measure type groups is the ability to simply exchange a text file accurately as well as maintain communications point to point. I have yet to find something that "anyone" can figure out and that's what we are dealing with sometimes in an emergency. In a come as you are scenario if we had a program that we could just type and chat as well as send a text file you'd have my vote. Something that a person can load and use immediately without a huge amount of instruction and so far there is nothing I can find. I know there are programs out there that do just that but they aren't user friendly either.

                Anyway I am so happy I found V4... it's a lot of fun. And thanks for all your effort Rick.

                Paul
                VE9NC
              • Jack Swift
                maybe i missed something, but couldn t you use the user files and paste options to insert your text file? just precede and follow it with a line of
                Message 7 of 23 , Dec 11, 2011
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                  maybe i missed something, but couldn't you use the "user files" and
                  "paste" options to insert your text file? just precede and follow it
                  with a line of "++++"??

                  On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Paul <ve9nc@...> wrote:
                  > In regards to #4 would you entertain a simple file transfer as part of the chat process? The only reason I am asking is that what we need for some Emergency Measure type groups is the ability to simply exchange a text file accurately as well as maintain communications point to point. I have yet to find something that "anyone" can figure out and that's what we are dealing with sometimes in an emergency. In a come as you are scenario if we had a program that we could just type and chat as well as send a text file you'd have my vote. Something that a person can load and use immediately without a huge amount of instruction and so far there is nothing I can find. I know there are programs out there that do just that but they aren't user friendly either.
                  >
                  > Anyway I am so happy I found V4... it's a lot of fun. And thanks for all your effort Rick.
                  >
                  > Paul
                  > VE9NC
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  --
                  vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
                  Jack Swift, N8WAV
                  Houghton County ARES/RACES EC/RO
                  105 E. Douglass Ave.
                  Houghton, MI 49931
                  906-281-5300
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                • Paul Leger
                  Well there is a reason why a file transfer is required rather than cut and paste into the main body but I do see your point. Yes it can be done that way. In
                  Message 8 of 23 , Dec 11, 2011
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                    Well there is a reason why a file transfer is required rather than cut and paste into the main body but I do see your point. Yes it can be done that way. In the environment I am used to, we get handed a text file via a computer link and told send this. Multiply that by a hundred files and you can see why it is easier to just sending a file rather than adding several additional steps. Also, and I know this will sound kind of skirting the issue, but with the text file we are used to we prefer not to send them in a clear form... that the other operator cannot easily peruse. As a text file it's a bit more private...  I can't give you specifics because of some of the confidentiality of some of the groups we work with. It's a unique set of circumstances we work within.
                     
                    Paul
                    VE9NC
                     
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com [mailto:V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jack Swift
                    Sent: December 11, 2011 9:22 PM
                    To: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: {Some tags disabled} Re: [V4Protocol] Re: V4 and V4Chat in 2011

                     

                    maybe i missed something, but couldn't you use the "user files" and
                    "paste" options to insert your text file? just precede and follow it
                    with a line of "++++"??

                    On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Paul <ve9nc@...> wrote:
                    > In regards to #4 would you entertain a simple file transfer as part of the chat process? The only reason I am asking is that what we need for some Emergency Measure type groups is the ability to simply exchange a text file accurately as well as maintain communications point to point. I have yet to find something that "anyone" can figure out and that's what we are dealing with sometimes in an emergency. In a come as you are scenario if we had a program that we could just type and chat as well as send a text file you'd have my vote. Something that a person can load and use immediately without a huge amount of instruction and so far there is nothing I can find. I know there are programs out there that do just that but they aren't user friendly either.
                    >
                    > Anyway I am so happy I found V4... it's a lot of fun. And thanks for all your effort Rick.
                    >
                    > Paul
                    > VE9NC
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    --
                    vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
                    Jack Swift, N8WAV
                    Houghton County ARES/RACES EC/RO
                    105 E. Douglass Ave.
                    Houghton, MI 49931
                    906-281-5300
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

                  • Rick Muething
                    Paul, Just to bring to your attention if you didn’t already know: 1) You can send any text file currently. Just go to “User Files, Paste and send...then
                    Message 9 of 23 , Dec 12, 2011
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                      Paul,
                       
                      Just to bring to your attention if you didn’t already know:
                      1) You can send any text file currently. Just go to “User Files, Paste and send...then navigate to the file you wish to send.  It must be a text file (not a .doc or .pdf ...but you can easily change those to .txt).  Click on the file and it will paste it into the outbound queue and send.  If you are doing emergency work or special forms that file should probably have some preamble info that tells what it is, what it should be used for etc... so the receiver knows what to do with it.
                       
                      2) On Receive all received text is simply put into the main receive window (and logged to the V4Chat log). But you can currently Copy that text to the clipboard (highlight in the main receive window and right click) and then past that into any text editor and save as a file. A little cumbersome but useable.
                       
                      To be able to send and receive actual files would require developing a specially formatted file header and footer (so the receiving station would be able to detect the text that is the transmitted file, get the file name etc). That is certainly possible and I will put that on the list to look at later.
                       
                      Of course sending files should ALWAYS be via ARQ...there is no guarantee FEC transmission alone will arrive error free or complete.
                       
                      Rick KN6KB
                       
                    • Paul Leger
                      Ok thanks for the explanation and thanks for the tips. I will try it out this week with one of the guys locally to see how she works. Paul VE9NC ... From:
                      Message 10 of 23 , Dec 12, 2011
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                        Ok thanks for the explanation and thanks for the tips. I will try it out this week with one of the guys locally to see how she works.
                         
                        Paul
                        VE9NC
                         
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com [mailto:V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Rick Muething
                        Sent: December 12, 2011 10:26 AM
                        To: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: {Some tags disabled} Re: [V4Protocol] Re: V4 and V4Chat in 2011

                         

                        Paul,
                         
                        Just to bring to your attention if you didn’t already know:
                        1) You can send any text file currently. Just go to “User Files, Paste and send...then navigate to the file you wish to send.  It must be a text file (not a .doc or .pdf ...but you can easily change those to .txt).  Click on the file and it will paste it into the outbound queue and send.  If you are doing emergency work or special forms that file should probably have some preamble info that tells what it is, what it should be used for etc... so the receiver knows what to do with it.
                         
                        2) On Receive all received text is simply put into the main receive window (and logged to the V4Chat log). But you can currently Copy that text to the clipboard (highlight in the main receive window and right click) and then past that into any text editor and save as a file. A little cumbersome but useable.
                         
                        To be able to send and receive actual files would require developing a specially formatted file header and footer (so the receiving station would be able to detect the text that is the transmitted file, get the file name etc). That is certainly possible and I will put that on the list to look at later.
                         
                        Of course sending files should ALWAYS be via ARQ...there is no guarantee FEC transmission alone will arrive error free or complete.
                         
                        Rick KN6KB
                         

                      • ON2AD
                        Hello Rick, Many thanks for the nice program and also to a nice Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. 73 de Pat ON2AD To all the users of V4 Chat the same
                        Message 11 of 23 , Dec 12, 2011
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                          Hello Rick,

                          Many thanks for the nice program and also to a nice Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

                          73 de Pat ON2AD

                          To all the users of "V4 Chat" the same whishes.
                        • John Wiseman
                          For the record, BPQ32 now has a V4 driver. It is possible to send messages to/from WL2K, altough only in text mode, as V4 isn t 8 bit transparent. This is more
                          Message 12 of 23 , Dec 12, 2011
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                            For the record, BPQ32 now has a V4 driver. It is possible to send messages to/from WL2K, altough only in text mode, as V4 isn't 8 bit transparent. This is more a "proof of concept" than a useful faclility, as V4 is really too slow for messaging, but there could be occasions when a narrow band mode could be useful.It can also be used for Chat, but V4Chat is a much nicer interface for this.
                             
                            73,
                            John G8BPQ
                             
                             

                          • Rick Muething
                            Thanks John. Glad to hear you were able to integrate the V4 TNC. I hope to add the full 8 bit support later (including UTF-8 character sets). I agree for
                            Message 13 of 23 , Dec 12, 2011
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                              Thanks John.  Glad to hear you were able to integrate the V4 TNC.  I hope to add the full 8 bit support later (including UTF-8 character sets). 
                               
                              I agree for most message applications WINMOR or other faster modes probably are best.
                               
                              Rick KN6KB
                               
                               
                               
                            • Rick Muething
                              Paul, If you want to send a file (text, .doc, .pdf, .jpg, .xls, etc.) and you want to do it efficiently then just use RMS Express or BPQ32 peer to peer
                              Message 14 of 23 , Dec 12, 2011
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                                Paul,
                                 
                                If you want to send a file (text, .doc, .pdf, .jpg, .xls,  etc.) and you want to do it efficiently then just use RMS Express or BPQ32 peer to peer (WINMOR, Pactor 1,2,3 or Packet) .  The file can be sent as an attachment and multiple files can be sent with the same message. The other benefit of using this method of sending a text file is that with plain text the compression algorithm used (B2F) compresses plain text about 2:1 (virtually doubling the speed).  It also make casual “reading the mail” by monitoring parties difficult...(if you miss any of the compressed file it is very difficult to decompress).  WINMOR and P1, P2 operate at 500 Hz BW and WINMOR 1600 or P3 use 1600-2100 Hz of bandwidth. Wideband is faster but requires a better signal to reach max speed.
                                 
                                So my suggestion is if you want or need to send files, use  RMS Express or BPQ32 either peer to peer or peer to BBS.  If you want to chat in plain text at typical typing speed and use only 200 Hz of BW use V4.  Forcing V4 into sending specific files to me is a bit like fitting the square peg into the round hole...sort of like sending pictures with RTTY...possible but why not just send a jpeg?
                                 
                                Rick KN6KB
                                 
                                Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 8:44 PM
                                Subject: RE: {Some tags disabled} Re: [V4Protocol] Re: V4 and V4Chat in 2011
                                 
                                 

                                Well there is a reason why a file transfer is required rather than cut and paste into the main body but I do see your point. Yes it can be done that way. In the environment I am used to, we get handed a text file via a computer link and told send this. Multiply that by a hundred files and you can see why it is easier to just sending a file rather than adding several additional steps. Also, and I know this will sound kind of skirting the issue, but with the text file we are used to we prefer not to send them in a clear form... that the other operator cannot easily peruse. As a text file it's a bit more private...  I can't give you specifics because of some of the confidentiality of some of the groups we work with. It's a unique set of circumstances we work within.
                                 
                                Paul
                                VE9NC
                                 
                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com [mailto:V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jack Swift
                                Sent: December 11, 2011 9:22 PM
                                To: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: {Some tags disabled} Re: [V4Protocol] Re: V4 and V4Chat in 2011

                                 

                                maybe i missed something, but couldn't you use the "user files" and
                                "paste" options to insert your text file? just precede and follow it
                                with a line of "++++"??

                                On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Paul <mailto:ve9nc%40rac.ca> wrote:
                                > In regards to #4 would you entertain a simple file transfer as part of the chat process? The only reason I am asking is that what we need for some Emergency Measure type groups is the ability to simply exchange a text file accurately as well as maintain communications point to point. I have yet to find something that "anyone" can figure out and that's what we are dealing with sometimes in an emergency. In a come as you are scenario if we had a program that we could just type and chat as well as send a text file you'd have my vote. Something that a person can load and use immediately without a huge amount of instruction and so far there is nothing I can find. I know there are programs out there that do just that but they aren't user friendly either.
                                >
                                > Anyway I am so happy I found V4... it's a lot of fun. And thanks for all your effort Rick.
                                >
                                > Paul
                                > VE9NC
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >

                                --
                                vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
                                Jack Swift, N8WAV
                                Houghton County ARES/RACES EC/RO
                                105 E. Douglass Ave.
                                Houghton, MI 49931
                                906-281-5300
                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

                              • Paul Leger
                                Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation. Appreciate it. I will look into it further on this end. Hope you have a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Paul VE9NC
                                Message 15 of 23 , Dec 12, 2011
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                                  Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation. Appreciate it. I will look into it further on this end.
                                   
                                  Hope you have a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
                                   
                                   
                                  Paul
                                  VE9NC
                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com [mailto:V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Rick Muething
                                  Sent: December 12, 2011 5:00 PM
                                  To: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: {Some tags disabled} Re: {Some tags disabled} Re: [V4Protocol] Re: V4 and V4Chat in 2011

                                   

                                  Paul,
                                   
                                  If you want to send a file (text, .doc, .pdf, .jpg, .xls,  etc.) and you want to do it efficiently then just use RMS Express or BPQ32 peer to peer (WINMOR, Pactor 1,2,3 or Packet) .  The file can be sent as an attachment and multiple files can be sent with the same message. The other benefit of using this method of sending a text file is that with plain text the compression algorithm used (B2F) compresses plain text about 2:1 (virtually doubling the speed).  It also make casual “reading the mail” by monitoring parties difficult...(if you miss any of the compressed file it is very difficult to decompress).  WINMOR and P1, P2 operate at 500 Hz BW and WINMOR 1600 or P3 use 1600-2100 Hz of bandwidth. Wideband is faster but requires a better signal to reach max speed.
                                   
                                  So my suggestion is if you want or need to send files, use  RMS Express or BPQ32 either peer to peer or peer to BBS.  If you want to chat in plain text at typical typing speed and use only 200 Hz of BW use V4.  Forcing V4 into sending specific files to me is a bit like fitting the square peg into the round hole...sort of like sending pictures with RTTY...possible but why not just send a jpeg?
                                   
                                  Rick KN6KB
                                   
                                  Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 8:44 PM
                                  Subject: RE: {Some tags disabled} Re: [V4Protocol] Re: V4 and V4Chat in 2011
                                   
                                   

                                  Well there is a reason why a file transfer is required rather than cut and paste into the main body but I do see your point. Yes it can be done that way. In the environment I am used to, we get handed a text file via a computer link and told send this. Multiply that by a hundred files and you can see why it is easier to just sending a file rather than adding several additional steps. Also, and I know this will sound kind of skirting the issue, but with the text file we are used to we prefer not to send them in a clear form... that the other operator cannot easily peruse. As a text file it's a bit more private...  I can't give you specifics because of some of the confidentiality of some of the groups we work with. It's a unique set of circumstances we work within.
                                   
                                  Paul
                                  VE9NC
                                   
                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com [mailto:V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jack Swift
                                  Sent: December 11, 2011 9:22 PM
                                  To: V4Protocol@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: {Some tags disabled} Re: [V4Protocol] Re: V4 and V4Chat in 2011

                                   

                                  maybe i missed something, but couldn't you use the "user files" and
                                  "paste" options to insert your text file? just precede and follow it
                                  with a line of "++++"??

                                  On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Paul <mailto:ve9nc%40rac.ca> wrote:
                                  > In regards to #4 would you entertain a simple file transfer as part of the chat process? The only reason I am asking is that what we need for some Emergency Measure type groups is the ability to simply exchange a text file accurately as well as maintain communications point to point. I have yet to find something that "anyone" can figure out and that's what we are dealing with sometimes in an emergency. In a come as you are scenario if we had a program that we could just type and chat as well as send a text file you'd have my vote. Something that a person can load and use immediately without a huge amount of instruction and so far there is nothing I can find. I know there are programs out there that do just that but they aren't user friendly either.
                                  >
                                  > Anyway I am so happy I found V4... it's a lot of fun. And thanks for all your effort Rick.
                                  >
                                  > Paul
                                  > VE9NC
                                  >
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                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                  Jack Swift, N8WAV
                                  Houghton County ARES/RACES EC/RO
                                  105 E. Douglass Ave.
                                  Houghton, MI 49931
                                  906-281-5300
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