Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

New thread...

Expand Messages
  • david cousins
    Here is a new thread, let s see if it goes anywhere. First some *Background* While playing Tichu last night with Rich, Dan and Mark (a chinese flavored card
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 27, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      Here is a new thread, let's see if it goes anywhere.

      First some *Background*
      While playing Tichu last night with Rich, Dan and Mark (a chinese
      flavored card game of trick taking -- standard deck of cards with some
      special cards thrown in), as I glazed over amidst dragons, phoenixes,
      knives and pagodas I thought "gee this would be a good as a chinese
      restaurant game... Knives become meat cleavers, kings become chefs, you
      make different dishes using different cards (like straight == happy
      family, full house == strange taste chicken).

      And now the meat of the thread (to mix a metaphor):
      We all have noticed that a lot of games start with a basic mechanic and
      have a theme pasted on top (sometimes it even starts to peel off!).
      Name a game like this, and propose a different theme that you think will
      be more fun (or more poignant) to the american gamer.

      I'm reminded of the Kniza card game that started as a horse race, and
      has so far morphed into a monster battle, galactic war, and ancient
      conflict.

      How about Cartagena with frat boys instead of pirates racing to squeese
      into a volkswagon beetle?

      Dave Cousins
    • Eddie Campisano
      ... and ... will ... Actually, Dave, I have done this with several Euro games. It is troublesome to me that so many Euro games have pagan or outright occultic
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 27, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In Unity_Games@egroups.com, david cousins <david.cousins@v...>
        wrote:

        > We all have noticed that a lot of games start with a basic mechanic
        and
        > have a theme pasted on top (sometimes it even starts to peel off!).
        > Name a game like this, and propose a different theme that you think
        will
        > be more fun (or more poignant) to the american gamer.

        > Dave Cousins

        Actually, Dave, I have done this with several Euro games. It is
        troublesome to me that so many Euro games have pagan or outright
        occultic themes. Most I reject outright, but a few have such
        interesting play mechanisims that I purhcased them anyway. Two games
        that I have changed are:

        Doctor Faust: A game where four little devils race around a track
        trying to steal the soul of Dr. Faust. I've changed that to a Cold
        War theme where Russian and American agents go back and forth across
        the Iron Curtain attempting to steal secrets. I actually had to
        redesign the game board and playing cards because of the occult
        symbols. Thankfully the abundance of clip art and computer graphic
        programs make doing this very easy.

        Halunken und Spelunken: A game in which sea captains roam the water
        front bars of 17th century London searching for drunken seamen to man
        their ships. I have changed this to groups of Salvation Army
        volunteers trying to call these sinful sailors to join them at a
        Salvation Army meeting. Fortunately, I didn't have to make any
        changes to the game board or pieces.

        Fantasmi / Ghosts: I'm looking for some nice Revolution or Roman era
        pieces (soldiers or politicians) to replace the little ghosts. The
        ghosts are cute (and glow in the dark!) but playing the game with
        them makes me a little uncomfortable.

        Some other games I would like to change:

        Stonehenge: I may create another game board. The original has a
        background shadow of a hooded druid with staff standing beneath the
        Stonehenge structure.

        Kahuna: My wife and I just ignore the theme of two waring priests. We
        play it as a pure abstract game of position. We didn't have to make
        any other changes to the game board of pieces.

        Yucata: Same here as with Kahuna. Although there are some ancient
        symbols on the game board which may represent religion, we just treat
        them as being historic.

        Some games I won't play because I think it would be too difficult to
        change the game pieces (cards): Hera & Zues, Druidenwalzer and a few
        other card games whose German titles I can't remember or spell.

        While I'm quite positive that my new game themes would be less
        popular than those already attached to these games, my wife and I get
        more enjoyment playing them when the themes are less offensive to us.

        Eddie
      • Mark Edwards
        ... There are a couple of games that I d like to change the theme on. Attila is a very recent entry into this category, and the other is Members Only. Both
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 27, 2000
        • 0 Attachment
          > --- In Unity_Games@egroups.com, david cousins <david.cousins@v...>
          > wrote:
          >
          > > We all have noticed that a lot of games start with a basic mechanic
          > and
          > > have a theme pasted on top (sometimes it even starts to peel off!).
          > > Name a game like this, and propose a different theme that you think
          > will
          > > be more fun (or more poignant) to the american gamer.

          There are a couple of games that I'd like to change the theme on.
          Attila is a very recent entry into this category, and the other is Members Only. Both suffer from themes that just don't fit, or are just plain silly in MO's case.
          Unfortunately at the moment I just don't have the time to try to figure out a decent theme or two for them.

          Although I've got to ask Dave why he was trying to paste a theme onto a card game like Tichu. Would you try that with Hi-Lo Jack? Or Bridge? Or...?

          Mark


          --

          http://people.ne.mediaone.net/dangermouse/index.htm
          Home of the Guy Stuff Gamers & the XFFL!
          "Ahh, humor you seek . . . fail you will!" - Yoda
        • Dave Bernazzani
          ... Wow! Fantasmi bothers you? And while I like Yucata, it s about as themeless as I could imagine. OK.... I know you are a man of strong convictions (which
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 27, 2000
          • 0 Attachment
            Eddie Campisano wrote:
            >
            > Fantasmi
            >
            > Some other games I would like to change:
            >
            > Stonehenge
            > Kahuna
            > Yucata
            > [snippage]

            Wow! Fantasmi bothers you? And while I like Yucata, it's about as
            themeless as I could imagine. OK.... I know you are a man of strong
            convictions (which is admirable), but if those games bother you I suspect
            many of the better German/Euro games would be pretty offensive. Take Tigris
            & Euphrates - an absolutely fantastic game which was, I believe, the highest
            rated back when Mark ran our UG correlation poll would certainly fall into
            the warring priests, temples to the Egyptian gods, etc. RA would be in a
            similar camp. Lord of the Rings too (of course this is based on popular
            fiction so I wonder if it would bother you). How does T&E and RA sit with
            you? (I know I've played RA with you on at least one occasion, and T&E I've
            not seen you play yet).

            I have yet to find any game theme particularly offensive although I suppose
            some I'd like to change just to make them more interesting. Pretty much
            anything with a medieval or ancient theme sits fairly well with me! Oh -
            and I like space stuff too. And fantasy! I suppose I'm slightly offended
            by those small lettuce cards in Hare & Tortoise, but other than that :-)

            --
            Dave Bernazzani
            dber@...
            http://www.gis.net/~dber (South Shore Gamers)
          • Walter Hunt
            ... suppose ... much ... me! Oh - ... offended ... This is almost as suspicious as the non-text portions of Bill R s posts that keep getting deleted. Mark,
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 27, 2000
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In Unity_Games@egroups.com, "Dave Bernazzani" <dber@g...> wrote:
              > I have yet to find any game theme particularly offensive although I
              suppose
              > some I'd like to change just to make them more interesting. Pretty
              much
              > anything with a medieval or ancient theme sits fairly well with
              me! Oh -
              > and I like space stuff too. And fantasy! I suppose I'm slightly
              offended
              > by those small lettuce cards in Hare & Tortoise, but other than that
              :-)
              >

              This is almost as suspicious as the non-text portions of Bill R's
              posts that keep getting deleted. Mark, are you posting under Dave's
              name? He usually doesn't make light of serious things...

              I guess I understand some of Eddie's objections, but aren't they a bit
              excessive? From the point of view of offensive to religious beliefs,
              aren't wargames representative of acts that are contrary to
              commandments regarding killing of fellow men?

              Years ago, Avalon Hill published a do-it-yourself bookcase format
              witchcraft kit. I don't care to have it on my bookshelf, and I can
              imagine Eddie doesn't either. But... Kahuna?

              Walter.
            • Mark Edwards
              Hey, let s not turn this thread into What games offend you and why? . Someone might get offended! ;-) ... --
              Message 6 of 12 , Dec 27, 2000
              • 0 Attachment
                Hey, let's not turn this thread into "What games offend you and why?". Someone might get offended! ;-)

                Dave Bernazzani wrote:

                > Eddie Campisano wrote:
                > >
                > > Fantasmi
                > >
                > > Some other games I would like to change:
                > >
                > > Stonehenge
                > > Kahuna
                > > Yucata
                > > [snippage]
                >
                > Wow! Fantasmi bothers you? <snip>

                --

                http://people.ne.mediaone.net/dangermouse/index.htm
                Home of the Guy Stuff Gamers & the XFFL!
                "Ahh, humor you seek . . . fail you will!" - Yoda
              • Pitt Crandlemire
                ... I don t happen to share Eddie s perspective but I don t think it s fair to call his objections excessive. He simply expressed a personal point-of-view.
                Message 7 of 12 , Dec 27, 2000
                • 0 Attachment
                  At 07:04 PM 12/27/00 -0000, Walter Hunt wrote:
                  >
                  >I guess I understand some of Eddie's objections, but aren't they a bit
                  >excessive?

                  I don't happen to share Eddie's perspective but I don't think it's fair to
                  call his objections excessive. He simply expressed a personal
                  point-of-view. He wasn't advocating it (though he has that right, too, of
                  course, so long as he doesn't do so offensively). If he finds those themes
                  to be objectional and by doing so he happens to put himself in a very small
                  minority, at least insofar as most gamers are concerned, that's his choice.

                  >From the point of view of offensive to religious beliefs,
                  >aren't wargames representative of acts that are contrary to
                  >commandments regarding killing of fellow men?

                  I *really* don't want to open this can of worms in this forum but a) Eddie
                  didn't even mention any wargames, so that's not relevant to the current
                  discussion but b) many religions and faiths, some forms of Christianity
                  among them, approve and endorse of such acts when they are undertaken in
                  defense of self, an innocent other, or faith.

                  >Years ago, Avalon Hill published a do-it-yourself bookcase format
                  >witchcraft kit. I don't care to have it on my bookshelf, and I can
                  >imagine Eddie doesn't either. But... Kahuna?

                  It seems pretty straightforward to me. Eddie is uncomfortable with any
                  game which uses a pagan (from a Christian perspective) or, possibly,
                  violent theme. If you don't agree, that's fine. I don't happen to agree
                  myself. It ought to be easy to suppose, however, that others might have a
                  different set of standards and might set the "acceptability" bar for
                  certain themes and topics quite a bit lower.

                  -Pitt
                • Walter Hunt
                  ... bit ... fair to ... Well, fair enough. Eddie has a right to object to whatever he likes. I m not uncomfortable with that, just a little surprised. As I
                  Message 8 of 12 , Dec 27, 2000
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In Unity_Games@egroups.com, Pitt Crandlemire <pittc@s...> wrote:
                    > At 07:04 PM 12/27/00 -0000, Walter Hunt wrote:
                    > >
                    > >I guess I understand some of Eddie's objections, but aren't they a
                    bit
                    > >excessive?
                    >
                    > I don't happen to share Eddie's perspective but I don't think it's
                    fair to
                    > call his objections excessive.

                    Well, fair enough. Eddie has a right to object to whatever he likes.
                    I'm not uncomfortable with that, just a little surprised. As I guess
                    Dave was.

                    > It seems pretty straightforward to me. Eddie is uncomfortable with
                    any
                    > game which uses a pagan (from a Christian perspective) or, possibly,
                    > violent theme. If you don't agree, that's fine.

                    I mentioned wargames because Eddie plays them, but I agree, let's stay
                    off that theme. As for discussing the matter here, or even differing,
                    that _is_ what the list is for, am I right? I didn't seek to take
                    Eddie down a peg for believing what he likes, I just raised the
                    metaphorical eyebrow. As Dave did, I think. Are you going to take out
                    after him too?

                    Walter.
                  • Mark Edwards
                    Can open! Worms everywhere! Like I said, we should just drop this one. Mark (my turn to be the reasonable one) Pitt Crandlemire wrote: ... --
                    Message 9 of 12 , Dec 27, 2000
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Can open! Worms everywhere!

                      Like I said, we should just drop this one.

                      Mark (my turn to be the reasonable one)

                      Pitt Crandlemire wrote:

                      <snip>

                      > I *really* don't want to open this can of worms in this forum but ....<snip>

                      --

                      http://people.ne.mediaone.net/dangermouse/index.htm
                      Home of the Guy Stuff Gamers & the XFFL!
                      "Ahh, humor you seek . . . fail you will!" - Yoda
                    • Pitt Crandlemire
                      ... I didn t take out after anybody. I m sorry if my response gave that impression. Having said that, I didn t read your reply to Eddie as simply raising
                      Message 10 of 12 , Dec 27, 2000
                      • 0 Attachment
                        At 07:22 PM 12/27/00 -0000, Walter Hunt wrote:
                        >
                        >I mentioned wargames because Eddie plays them, but I agree, let's stay
                        >off that theme. As for discussing the matter here, or even differing,
                        >that _is_ what the list is for, am I right? I didn't seek to take
                        >Eddie down a peg for believing what he likes, I just raised the
                        >metaphorical eyebrow. As Dave did, I think. Are you going to take out
                        >after him too?

                        I didn't "take out after" anybody. I'm sorry if my response gave that
                        impression. Having said that, I didn't read your reply to Eddie as simply
                        raising an eyebrow in a simple query. It seemed to me that you were
                        questioning the validity of his opinion. Had you said something more along
                        the lines of "Kahuna? Why is that offensive to you? It seems harmless
                        enough to me. I don't see what there is in it to give offense." your intent
                        would have been clear. Instead, I read your brief "But... Kahuna?" as
                        mildly concescending. Perhaps Eddie wouldn't find it that way. Perhaps
                        you didn't mean it that way. If so, my apologies again.

                        To Mark:
                        Yes, I know, worms are squirming all over the place. Most likely,
                        forbearance would have been the better part of valor. However, I thought
                        it appropriate to support Eddie's perspective, even though I don't share
                        it. I will now attempt to stuff those worms back in the can...

                        -Pitt
                      • Dave Bernazzani
                        From: Mark Edwards ... OK good call. I wasn t trying to offend anyone (really!) - I was just a teeny bit surprised by Ed s
                        Message 11 of 12 , Dec 27, 2000
                        • 0 Attachment
                          From: Mark Edwards <dangermouse@...>


                          >Hey, let's not turn this thread into "What games offend
                          >you and why?". Someone might get offended! ;-)

                          OK good call. I wasn't trying to offend anyone (really!) - I was just a
                          teeny bit surprised by Ed's "offensive games" list. Gut reaction I guess,
                          that's all and I had hoped the humor end remark and the emotion would take
                          the edge off. I'll apologize to Ed now if he felt I was knocking his
                          beliefs - it was certainly not my intention (it was more a curiosity
                          factor).

                          Based on that list, I'm now worried that I may have inadvertently offended
                          Ed at the SSG which would make me feel terrible. I offered to use regular
                          playing cards last time we played Werewolf since Ed had made mention of
                          feeling uncomfortable in his past mini-session report (although he seemed
                          generally OK with the game as-was). I'm generally very tolerant of someone
                          else's beliefs -- I was genuinely curious as to his feelings on RA, E&T and
                          the like. I'm happy to let it drop!

                          ('Worms... Back in Box!')

                          --
                          Dave Bernazzani
                          dber@...
                          http://www.gis.net/~dber (South Shore Gamers)
                        • Alison Hansel
                          Hi everyone! I ve been gone for a while, but despite still having some grading left, am trying to get back into my regular routine of keeping up with the
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jan 1, 2001
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi everyone!

                            I've been gone for a while, but despite still having some grading
                            left, am trying to get back into my regular routine of keeping up
                            with the autoposter while, of course, conversing with you all.

                            First, great work on the polls, Andrew. I'm glad I came back in time
                            to vote! No need to waste any time trying to figure out what I voted
                            for.... I agree with Pitt that Corsairs could have been on the list,
                            but I wouldn't have voted for it anyway (not for first).

                            Second, I loved this:

                            --- david cousins <david.cousins@v...> wrote:
                            > While playing Tichu last night with Rich, Dan and Mark (a chinese
                            > flavored card game of trick taking -- standard deck of cards with
                            > some special cards thrown in)

                            Sounds like Mark is "a chinese flavored card game"! Hilarious. I've
                            got some great misplaced modifiers culled from student papers
                            collected on my website. One student wrote: "Being a history major,
                            the Holocaust is very interesting." Ohh, the Holocaust is a history
                            major - well, that is interesting.

                            Third, for those of you in on the December Adam Spielt order, no sign
                            of games or billing yet, so we're still waiting.

                            That's all for now. But warn the autoposter... I'll be back!

                            --Alison
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.