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Re: [Unity_Games] Spielfreaks?

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  • Mark J. Edwards
    ... Sorry JC, you lost me and I m willing to bet Mike missed it too. Like I ve said before (perhaps not in so many words), despite your extensive vocabulary
    Message 1 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
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      At 12:13 AM 12/1/2003 -0500, J C Lawrence wrote:
      > > And ignore JC, he's got some issues.
      >
      >Apparently one of which is having you being less observant than usual.
      >See my original reply again for the pun and answer. I gave him
      >everything he needed.

      Sorry JC, you lost me and I'm willing to bet Mike missed it too. Like
      I've said before (perhaps not in so many words), despite your extensive
      vocabulary you have serious interpersonal communication problems.

      Mark


      "Just look at him. Square. The shape of *EVIL*" - Plankton
    • Mark Edwards
      ... Whew. I m glad you got it Mike. Mark If you like board games and live in Eastern MA or the surrounding areas check out Unity Games -- www.unitygames.org
      Message 2 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
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        At 03:56 PM 12/1/2003 +0000, madhouseri wrote:

        >All though it appears that JC is saying "Riddle me this Batman! What
        >does Gmane?!!"
        >
        >He is really saying "Google me this Madhouse! Gmane!"
        >
        >No prob JC I understood you.

        Whew. I'm glad you got it Mike.

        Mark


        If you like board games and live in Eastern MA or the surrounding areas
        check out Unity Games -- www.unitygames.org

        "Head! Pants! Now!! Move that melon of yours and get the paper if you
        can... hauling that gargantuan cranium about." -- Stuart MacKenzie
      • J C Lawrence
        On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 17:27:13 -0000 ... Thanks. I hadn t expected a compliment from you. -- J C Lawrence ... claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil,
        Message 3 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
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          On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 17:27:13 -0000
          Tami <yatcher@...> wrote:

          > I'll agree with the elitist part, anyway.

          Thanks. I hadn't expected a compliment from you.

          --
          J C Lawrence
          ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
          claw@... He lived as a devil, eh?
          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
        • Eric Shultz
          ... If I had to compare, I d say that I understood Mark s answer, and yours not so much. This is unusual, because Mark always leaves out one key piece of
          Message 4 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
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            --- J C Lawrence <claw@...> wrote:

            > To pick a comparison:

            If I had to compare, I'd say that I understood Mark's
            answer, and yours not so much. This is unusual,
            because Mark always leaves out one key piece of
            information so that he can hold mastery over you.

            > gave him a two layer pun and a trivially small
            > game/joke to wrap it up
            > in.

            Perhaps the instructions for the game and the puns got
            lost in the translation from the original German?

            Eric

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          • J C Lawrence
            On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:58:03 -0800 (PST) ... Aye, when he introduced us to Union Pacific we threatened him with a pummelling if he tried that tactic. Seeing as
            Message 5 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
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              On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:58:03 -0800 (PST)
              Eric Shultz <swift_4@...> wrote:
              > --- J C Lawrence <claw@...> wrote:

              >> To pick a comparison:

              > If I had to compare, I'd say that I understood Mark's answer, and
              > yours not so much. This is unusual, because Mark always leaves out
              > one key piece of information so that he can hold mastery over you.

              Aye, when he introduced us to Union Pacific we threatened him with a
              pummelling if he tried that tactic. Seeing as we were all sitting
              between him and the door, or perhaps seeing what easy pigeons we were,
              he gave a nice clear explanation of the rules with only a few "Oh yes I
              nearly forgot!" backtracks before we started play. It almost made me
              forget that it was Mark Edwards at the end of the table.

              Of course he then beat the living crap out of us...but I can forgive him
              that. UP is a great game and he gave an excellent introduction to it.
              Dunno if that's enough for the Pearly Gates however.

              >> gave him a two layer pun and a trivially small game/joke to wrap it
              >> up in.

              > Perhaps the instructions for the game and the puns got lost in the
              > translation from the original German?

              Aaaiiiieeeee!

              I spent much of Sunday and will spend most of tonight fighting rules
              translations for Ebbe&Flutt and die Erben von Hoax. It was clear for
              both that the original translations for both sucked and that potentially
              'better' translations are available. What is missing is any statement
              of how and why the 'new' translations in fact correct or a substantive
              improvement.

              Ebbe&Flutt at least appears to have submitted to pressure and I'll
              likely post a couple PDFs of my conclusions to the 'geek later. I
              strongly suspect that die Erben von Hoax is in fact a brilliant game if
              played by the right rules with a group that groks the rules and their
              implications, despite the thrashing it got on the 'geek. Hopefully more
              work will bear this out.

              Heck, in many ways dEvH reminds me of the worst combination of
              programming in C and perl: very large calibre weapons aimed at your foot
              by default and at your skull by the next option, no sanity checks or
              guard rails, and not a whole lot of clarity as to which end of the gun
              the bullet comes out of let alone which of the dozen plus triggers you
              should pull.

              <This is particularly amusing for me as I love C and loathe perl>

              --
              J C Lawrence
              ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
              claw@... He lived as a devil, eh?
              http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
            • J C Lawrence
              On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 09:42:03 -0500 ... Oh no, you ve been quite well understood on that score. What you (plural) seem to persist in missing are what my goals
              Message 6 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
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                On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 09:42:03 -0500
                Mark J Edwards <danger-mouse@...> wrote:

                > Like I've said before (perhaps not in so many words), despite your
                > extensive vocabulary you have serious interpersonal communication
                > problems.

                Oh no, you've been quite well understood on that score. What you
                (plural) seem to persist in missing are what my goals are and how they
                differ from your's/what you assume. Not a problem in the slightest.

                BTW: Your response to Alan Kwan and me on SF regarding types of
                interactivity was delightful. It quite made my day. I doubt even
                Victor Borge could have gotten that dry.

                --
                J C Lawrence
                ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
                claw@... He lived as a devil, eh?
                http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
              • Eric Shultz
                ... No. Humor is necessarily and by definition funny. Stupid is optional. From the American Heritage Dictionary: The quality that makes something laughable
                Message 7 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
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                  --- J C Lawrence <claw@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Humour is necessarily and by definition stupid.
                  >

                  No. Humor is necessarily and by definition funny.
                  Stupid is optional.

                  From the American Heritage Dictionary:

                  "The quality that makes something laughable or
                  amusing; funniness."

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                • Tami
                  ... they ... Your goals seem to be as follows: 1.) Be as much of a pain in the butt as possible. 2.) Use big words to try to annoy as many people as possible.
                  Message 8 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
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                    --- In Unity_Games@yahoogroups.com, J C Lawrence <claw@k...> wrote:
                    > On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 09:42:03 -0500
                    > Oh no, you've been quite well understood on that score. What you
                    > (plural) seem to persist in missing are what my goals are and how
                    they
                    > differ from your's/what you assume. Not a problem in the slightest.

                    Your goals seem to be as follows:

                    1.) Be as much of a pain in the butt as possible.
                    2.) Use big words to try to annoy as many people as possible.
                    3.) Suck up to as many game designers as possible (or maybe just Alan
                    Moon).
                    4.) Take up as much space (physical, as well as web-based) as you
                    can, and waste as much oxygen as possible.

                    So, if everyone here says that you have accomplished your goals, will
                    you finally either shut up or go away?

                    Tami
                  • Mark Edwards
                    ... Whoa, whoa, whoa!!! Nice shooting Tex. Now take a deep breath and step back from the keyboard for a bit. Let s just let this one drop. I think we ve
                    Message 9 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
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                      At 07:52 PM 12/1/2003 +0000, Tami wrote:
                      ><snip>
                      >So, if everyone here says that you have accomplished your goals, will
                      >you finally either shut up or go away?

                      Whoa, whoa, whoa!!! Nice shooting Tex. Now take a deep breath and
                      step back from the keyboard for a bit. Let's just let this one drop. I
                      think we've hammered it to death.

                      Mark


                      If you like board games and live in Eastern MA or the surrounding areas
                      check out Unity Games -- www.unitygames.org

                      I'll handle this ... the only danger in space is if we land on the terrible
                      Planet of the Apes ... wait a minute. Statue of Liberty ... THAT WAS OUR
                      PLANET! YOU MANIACS! YOU BLEW IT UP! DAMN YOU! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL! -
                      Homer Simpson
                    • mrhaleon
                      ... And the best kind of humour is that which needs to be explained multiple times to the same people... Explanations make things much more with the funness.
                      Message 10 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
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                        --- In Unity_Games@yahoogroups.com, Eric Shultz <swift_4@y...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- J C Lawrence <claw@k...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Humour is necessarily and by definition stupid.
                        > >
                        >
                        > No. Humor is necessarily and by definition funny.
                        > Stupid is optional.
                        >
                        > From the American Heritage Dictionary:
                        >
                        > "The quality that makes something laughable or
                        > amusing; funniness."
                        >

                        And the best kind of humour is that which needs to be explained
                        multiple times to the same people... Explanations make things much
                        more with the funness.

                        --Campbell
                      • Craig B
                        ... Yes, but just because something s been around for a while doesn t make it funny, nor does it make it good. Pouring sugar in people s gas tanks is a joke
                        Message 11 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
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                          J C Lawrence <claw@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > .signature jokes have been around since the dawn of ARPAnet.

                          Yes, but just because something's been around for a while doesn't
                          make it funny, nor does it make it good. Pouring sugar in people's
                          gas tanks is a "joke" that's been around for a while too. Does that
                          mean that it's funny? If you think so, I stand ready with a pound of
                          sugar and a mechanic soon to make a great deal of money from you.

                          So, I can admire trying to be funny. Hell, making people smile is
                          one of my favorite things to do. However, if a person doesn't get
                          the joke (or wasn't looking for a joke, just basic info), then "the
                          funny" is lost to most everyone but the teller of the joke, who
                          thinks it's hilarious.

                          Just my 2 bits...



                          =====
                          Craig Brooks
                          Cheapass Demo Monkey / MIB #0411 email: gilby123@...
                          http://www.angelfire.com/ma/gilby123/index.html

                          "Where would we be without the agitators of the
                          world attaching the electrodes of knowledge to the nipples
                          of ignorance?" - John Lithgow, 3rd Rock from the Sun

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                        • J C Lawrence
                          On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:26:59 -0500 (EST) ... Yeah, I haven t abused that Pine feetchure for years (used to add a signature delimiter to the top of all posts
                          Message 12 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
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                            On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:26:59 -0500 (EST)
                            John P Cataldo <cataldoj@...> wrote:

                            > I've configured my mail reader to automagically strip away signatures.

                            Yeah, I haven't abused that Pine feetchure for years (used to add a
                            signature delimiter to the top of all posts when I was younger and less
                            silly). It ranks right up there with Outlook's "^begin " behaviour.

                            > There is a relatively unknown protocol standard where you make an
                            > entire line two dashes, followed by a space, in order to indicate the
                            > start of your signature.

                            I believe the requirement is "--[space][LF]" but a quick search didn't
                            turn up the standard and I've forgotten where I learnt it. Oddly its
                            not on RFC 2822.

                            > Most people don't actually use this protocol...

                            It used to be that the .sig delimiter was auto-inserted by the mail or
                            news client. No more, not in this day of mass market induced stupidity.

                            > Admittedly, my brain still nicely tends to automagically ignore
                            > anything in the signature.

                            As do I. That principle of pattern recognition is what .signature jokes
                            rely on: hidden in plain sight.

                            > I guess I'm just not as thorough as JC.

                            If you mine the USENET or FIDO archives you'll find far more than enough
                            cases of me being royally smacked and gaffed with missed .signature
                            jokes. Err, actually, don't bother. There aren't any there. Really!
                            None at all! I got them all... <hangs head in dreadful sorry shame>

                            > It turns out that JC Lawrence not only uses this very polite "here's
                            > the start of my signature, so you can ignore anything below it"
                            > protocol...

                            Of course. It is the standard.

                            > ... but he also puts non-signature, unique information in the
                            > signature.

                            Sometimes. Rarely. Ignoring cases like the DdJ gag in Spielfrieks
                            (which only AngelaG braced me on), I try and ensure that any changes I
                            make to my .sig also change the visual pattern. Well, that is except in
                            some crypto groups where hidden messages are de rigueur.

                            eg I did a hidden ROT13'ed message at one point by changing a couple
                            characters in my .sig for each reply to the list. Sum the changes
                            over time, ROT13 back, and you got, "I bet you thought this message
                            was for you!" In the end ~20 people got it within a few hours of my
                            final message. Excellent fun outside of the fact that I utterly
                            missed it when it was done back to me.

                            > Alas, JC, I hope you haven't been telling ME anything important in
                            > your signatures, because I haven't been seeing them!

                            Them's the breaks if you configure your mail client that way! Think of
                            it like X- headers. They are part of the message, just not commonly
                            examined ones. As such they can be and sometimes are used for useful
                            additional or OOB information, as well as games, jokes, gags, tricks,
                            puns etc. They're ripe resources for all that stuff.

                            A good friend writes ad-hoc haiku for his signatures, a new one for
                            every message, and topical to that message as well. Missing those would
                            be a crime.

                            > John Cataldo, who is not JC, who suggests not putting useful
                            > information AFTER the line which explicitly exists to state "there is
                            > no useful information after this line."

                            The assumption that there is no useful data in a .signature is just
                            that, an assumption. Often it is true. Sometimes it isn't. That's the
                            game. Its a question of catching the "Doh! I should have known..."
                            reaction.

                            --
                            J C Lawrence
                            ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
                            claw@... He lived as a devil, eh?
                            http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
                          • J C Lawrence
                            On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:52:35 -0800 (PST) ... Humour is the rejection of out points, of things that aren t, can t be, shouldn t be, are illogical etc. Such
                            Message 13 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
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                              On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:52:35 -0800 (PST)
                              Eric Shultz <swift_4@...> wrote:
                              > --- J C Lawrence <claw@...> wrote:

                              >> Humour is necessarily and by definition stupid.

                              > No. Humor is necessarily and by definition funny. Stupid is optional.

                              Humour is the rejection of out points, of things that aren't, can't be,
                              shouldn't be, are illogical etc. Such things fit the definition of
                              "stupid". They are errors, faults, omissions, exaggerations, illogics,
                              etc.

                              --
                              J C Lawrence
                              ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
                              claw@... He lived as a devil, eh?
                              http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
                            • Mike Long
                              ... Too bloody much! An ungentle suggestion: either STFU or take it off-list, so you can stop WASTING MY TIME. I m not as diplomatic as Dave B. -- Mike Long
                              Message 14 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
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                                >On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:52:35 -0800 (PST)
                                >Eric Shultz <swift_4@...> wrote:
                                >> --- J C Lawrence <claw@...> wrote:

                                Too bloody much!

                                An ungentle suggestion: either STFU or take it off-list, so you can
                                stop WASTING MY TIME.

                                I'm not as diplomatic as Dave B.
                                --
                                Mike Long <mike.long(at)analog.com>
                                VLSI Design Engineer
                                Analog Devices, Mixed Signal Design Group
                                Norwood, MA 02062-9106 USA (eq (opinion 'ADI) (opinion 'mike)) -> nil
                              • Constantine von Hoffman
                                there is no such thing as an all-inclusive or accurate definition of humor -- the more you dissect it, the more you lose. ask freud -- whose book on humor was
                                Message 15 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
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                                  there is no such thing as an all-inclusive or accurate definition of humor
                                  -- the more you dissect it, the more you lose. ask freud -- whose book on
                                  humor was notably unhelpful but whose other books are frequently, albeit
                                  unintentionally, hilarious. humor is one thing to me and another thing to
                                  you. you are allowed to find anything funny -- but if you wish to
                                  communicate what you find funny with an audience beyond just yourself then
                                  you have to find a common ground and understanding with your audience. if
                                  they don't share your assumptions about what is funny and you still want
                                  them to react to what you find humorous then you have to frame it in terms
                                  that they understand/agree with. if you assert that "I know what is funny
                                  and you don't" you will get laughed at for your position not for the
                                  content of your attempted humor.

                                  At 03:21 PM 12/1/2003 -0500, you wrote:
                                  >Humour is the rejection of out points, of things that aren't, can't be,
                                  >shouldn't be, are illogical etc. Such things fit the definition of
                                  >"stupid". They are errors, faults, omissions, exaggerations, illogics,
                                  >etc.


                                  Constantine

                                  Who has, believe it or not, been paid quite a bit to write humorously and
                                  who hopes one day to be paid for giving a humorous performance.
                                • mrhaleon
                                  ... and ... drop. I ... I m guessing Mark is also sufferring from the late email problem today... --Campbell
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
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                                    --- In Unity_Games@yahoogroups.com, Mark Edwards <danger-mouse@c...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Whoa, whoa, whoa!!! Nice shooting Tex. Now take a deep breath
                                    and
                                    > step back from the keyboard for a bit. Let's just let this one
                                    drop. I
                                    > think we've hammered it to death.
                                    >
                                    > Mark
                                    >

                                    I'm guessing Mark is also sufferring from the late email problem
                                    today...

                                    --Campbell
                                  • Brian Stormont
                                    ... JC, if you get a chance, take a look at the summary PDF I made for die Erben von Hoax on BGG. I m not sure I got the German completely right, but it
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
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                                      At 02:20 PM 12/1/2003, JC wrote:
                                      >I spent much of Sunday and will spend most of tonight fighting rules
                                      >translations for Ebbe&Flutt and die Erben von Hoax. It was clear for
                                      >both that the original translations for both sucked and that potentially
                                      >'better' translations are available. What is missing is any statement
                                      >of how and why the 'new' translations in fact correct or a substantive
                                      >improvement.

                                      JC, if you get a chance, take a look at the summary PDF I made for die
                                      Erben von Hoax on BGG. I'm not sure I got the German completely right, but
                                      it seemed to make sense. I tried to match the look of the original German
                                      summary card but the tinting ended up slightly yellow-green instead of a
                                      golden-yellow and I was too lazy to redo it in Photoshop.

                                      ><This is particularly amusing for me as I love C and loathe perl>

                                      You just need to roll around in the perl mud a little bit longer and let it
                                      soak under your skin. After a while it can be quite fun (and powerful). I
                                      used to think it looked like line noise from a bad modem connection, but
                                      now I find it very useful for certain tasks. Granted I won't be writing
                                      device drivers for embedded systems in perl, but it is quite handy for a
                                      lot of tasks.

                                      Brian
                                      --
                                      North Kingstown, RI
                                    • J C Lawrence
                                      On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:54:27 -0500 ... Yup, that s one of the first things I printed and cut out. I do wish that the geek put submitter s names against
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
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                                        On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:54:27 -0500
                                        Brian Stormont <yahoo@...> wrote:
                                        > At 02:20 PM 12/1/2003, JC wrote:

                                        >> I spent much of Sunday and will spend most of tonight fighting rules
                                        >> translations for Ebbe&Flutt and die Erben von Hoax. It was clear for
                                        >> both that the original translations for both sucked and that
                                        >> potentially 'better' translations are available. What is missing is
                                        >> any statement of how and why the 'new' translations in fact correct
                                        >> or a substantive improvement.

                                        > JC, if you get a chance, take a look at the summary PDF I made for die
                                        > Erben von Hoax on BGG.

                                        Yup, that's one of the first things I printed and cut out. I do wish
                                        that the 'geek put submitter's names against files. Thanks!

                                        My current concern, which seems to unfounded, is that the Frank
                                        Branham's rules may be in error. Unfortunately neonate.org appears to
                                        have fallen off the net and Frank Branham with it, which makes it
                                        difficult to check for updated versions. As for tonight translation
                                        efforts, other things have arisen.

                                        >> <This is particularly amusing for me as I love C and loathe perl>

                                        > You just need to roll around in the perl mud a little bit longer and
                                        > let it soak under your skin.

                                        <shudder>

                                        > After a while it can be quite fun (and powerful).

                                        <whimper> This same reasoning leads to Preparation H being primarily
                                        sold in the super-mega-economy size packs in San Francisco. No thanks.
                                        (My ex- worked at a drug store in SF for a while)

                                        > I used to think it looked like line noise from a bad modem connection,
                                        > but now I find it very useful for certain tasks.

                                        <mewl> And it didn't stop looking like line noise either...

                                        > Granted I won't be writing device drivers for embedded systems in
                                        > perl, but it is quite handy for a lot of tasks.

                                        </taunt>

                                        I can live with perl, have had to work with and maintain enough of it,
                                        but its very hard imagining actually feeling comfortable with it. It
                                        fits me poorly. I have a very hard time with the simple fact that there
                                        is no [E]BNF for the language (tho this may change in Perl6 which is far
                                        more regular)

                                        These days I do almost all my heavier scripting in Python and have come
                                        to greatly appreciate its elegance. Grok that white space sensitivity!
                                        Shell is of course the default tool, then Python, then something with a
                                        non-byte-coded compiler which usually means C (not a C++ fan tho I've
                                        done a lot of work in it).

                                        --
                                        J C Lawrence
                                        ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
                                        claw@... He lived as a devil, eh?
                                        http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
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