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Re: Spielfreaks?

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  • mrhaleon
    ... usual. ... Except an answer to his question, or an explanation of exactly what this GMane is... But yeah, besides that, you gave him everything he
    Message 1 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
      --- In Unity_Games@yahoogroups.com, J C Lawrence <claw@k...> wrote:
      > On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 00:08:55 -0500
      > Mark J Edwards <danger-mouse@c...> wrote:
      >
      > > And ignore JC, he's got some issues.
      >
      > Apparently one of which is having you being less observant than
      usual.
      > See my original reply again for the pun and answer. I gave him
      > everything he needed.
      >

      Except an answer to his question, or an explanation of exactly what
      this "GMane" is...

      But yeah, besides that, you gave him everything he needed...

      --Campbell
    • Mark J. Edwards
      ... Sorry JC, you lost me and I m willing to bet Mike missed it too. Like I ve said before (perhaps not in so many words), despite your extensive vocabulary
      Message 2 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
        At 12:13 AM 12/1/2003 -0500, J C Lawrence wrote:
        > > And ignore JC, he's got some issues.
        >
        >Apparently one of which is having you being less observant than usual.
        >See my original reply again for the pun and answer. I gave him
        >everything he needed.

        Sorry JC, you lost me and I'm willing to bet Mike missed it too. Like
        I've said before (perhaps not in so many words), despite your extensive
        vocabulary you have serious interpersonal communication problems.

        Mark


        "Just look at him. Square. The shape of *EVIL*" - Plankton
      • J C Lawrence
        On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:10:40 -0000 ... No, I answered his question as well, AND provided a recommendation of contacting the SF moderators address, which I then
        Message 3 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
          On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:10:40 -0000
          mrhaleon <haleon@...> wrote:
          > --- In Unity_Games@yahoogroups.com, J C Lawrence <claw@k...> wrote:
          >> On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 00:08:55 -0500 Mark J Edwards <danger-mouse@c...>
          >> wrote:

          >>> And ignore JC, he's got some issues.

          >> Apparently one of which is having you being less observant than
          >> usual. See my original reply again for the pun and answer. I gave
          >> him everything he needed.

          > Except an answer to his question...

          No, I answered his question as well, AND provided a recommendation of
          contacting the SF moderators address, which I then provided. Do I
          really have to spell out both puns in that message? <shudder> I thought
          this was a game playing group?

          > ... or an explanation of exactly what this "GMane" is...

          The very first hit on Google does that, and better than any attempt of
          mine would be.

          > But yeah, besides that, you gave him everything he needed...

          To pick a comparison: the only data Mark Edwards provided that I didn't
          was that the SF subscription problem was caused by an error on the part
          of a moderator. Outside of that I provided the same data as Mark and
          more: I pointed him at GMane for reading the archives and as an
          alternate posting route, the -moderator address for subscribing, and
          gave him a two layer pun and a trivially small game/joke to wrap it up
          in.

          However it seems that both you and Mark missed the joke. Have another
          look. It is there and it isn't even hidden.

          --
          J C Lawrence suggests reading .signatures
          ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
          claw@... He lived as a devil, eh?
          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
        • madhouseri
          All though it appears that JC is saying Riddle me this Batman! What does Gmane?!! He is really saying Google me this Madhouse! Gmane! No prob JC I
          Message 4 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
            All though it appears that JC is saying "Riddle me this Batman! What
            does Gmane?!!"

            He is really saying "Google me this Madhouse! Gmane!"

            No prob JC I understood you.

            And about my missing commas.

            Grammar(sp?) has never been one of my strong suits. I hope you will
            not find reading my posts too irritating as a result.

            Hope you have a great day!
            Mike





            --- In Unity_Games@yahoogroups.com, "mrhaleon" <haleon@s...> wrote:
            > --- In Unity_Games@yahoogroups.com, J C Lawrence <claw@k...> wrote:
            > > On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 00:08:55 -0500
            > > Mark J Edwards <danger-mouse@c...> wrote:
            > >
            > > > And ignore JC, he's got some issues.
            > >
            > > Apparently one of which is having you being less observant than
            > usual.
            > > See my original reply again for the pun and answer. I gave him
            > > everything he needed.
            > >
            >
            > Except an answer to his question, or an explanation of exactly what
            > this "GMane" is...
            >
            > But yeah, besides that, you gave him everything he needed...
            >
            > --Campbell
          • Ronald J Kimball
            ... I m not sure what puns you re talking about. ... So why didn t you include the URL in your post? ... Perhaps you shouldn t hide the important information
            Message 5 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
              On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 10:50:43AM -0500, J C Lawrence wrote:
              > On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:10:40 -0000
              > mrhaleon <haleon@...> wrote:
              > > --- In Unity_Games@yahoogroups.com, J C Lawrence <claw@k...> wrote:
              > >> On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 00:08:55 -0500 Mark J Edwards <danger-mouse@c...>
              > >> wrote:
              >
              > >>> And ignore JC, he's got some issues.
              >
              > >> Apparently one of which is having you being less observant than
              > >> usual. See my original reply again for the pun and answer. I gave
              > >> him everything he needed.
              >
              > > Except an answer to his question...
              >
              > No, I answered his question as well, AND provided a recommendation of
              > contacting the SF moderators address, which I then provided. Do I
              > really have to spell out both puns in that message? <shudder> I thought
              > this was a game playing group?

              I'm not sure what puns you're talking about.


              > > ... or an explanation of exactly what this "GMane" is...
              >
              > The very first hit on Google does that, and better than any attempt of
              > mine would be.

              So why didn't you include the URL in your post?


              > > But yeah, besides that, you gave him everything he needed...
              >
              > To pick a comparison: the only data Mark Edwards provided that I didn't
              > was that the SF subscription problem was caused by an error on the part
              > of a moderator. Outside of that I provided the same data as Mark and
              > more: I pointed him at GMane for reading the archives and as an
              > alternate posting route, the -moderator address for subscribing, and
              > gave him a two layer pun and a trivially small game/joke to wrap it up
              > in.
              >
              > However it seems that both you and Mark missed the joke. Have another
              > look. It is there and it isn't even hidden.
              >
              > --
              > J C Lawrence suggests reading .signatures

              Perhaps you shouldn't hide the important information in the signature? If
              you're actually trying to be helpful and expect people to read it, that's
              just stupid.


              Ronald
            • mrhaleon
              ... signature? If ... that s ... Wait, Ronald.... you re not expecting JC to actually be clear and helpful, are you? He d rather make obscure references and
              Message 6 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
                --- In Unity_Games@yahoogroups.com, Ronald J Kimball <rjk-games@t...>
                wrote:
                > On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 10:50:43AM -0500, J C Lawrence wrote:
                > >
                > > --
                > > J C Lawrence suggests reading .signatures
                >
                > Perhaps you shouldn't hide the important information in the
                signature? If
                > you're actually trying to be helpful and expect people to read it,
                that's
                > just stupid.
                >
                >

                Wait, Ronald.... you're not expecting JC to actually be clear and
                helpful, are you?

                He'd rather make obscure references and hide information inside of
                signatures and make people work for answers, rather than just give a
                one sentence, clear reply... He's WAY smarter than us, after all...

                --Campbell
              • Mark Edwards
                ... Whew. I m glad you got it Mike. Mark If you like board games and live in Eastern MA or the surrounding areas check out Unity Games -- www.unitygames.org
                Message 7 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
                  At 03:56 PM 12/1/2003 +0000, madhouseri wrote:

                  >All though it appears that JC is saying "Riddle me this Batman! What
                  >does Gmane?!!"
                  >
                  >He is really saying "Google me this Madhouse! Gmane!"
                  >
                  >No prob JC I understood you.

                  Whew. I'm glad you got it Mike.

                  Mark


                  If you like board games and live in Eastern MA or the surrounding areas
                  check out Unity Games -- www.unitygames.org

                  "Head! Pants! Now!! Move that melon of yours and get the paper if you
                  can... hauling that gargantuan cranium about." -- Stuart MacKenzie
                • John P. Cataldo
                  ] -- ] J C Lawrence suggests reading .signatures ] ] Perhaps you shouldn t hide the important information in the ] signature? If you re actually trying to
                  Message 8 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
                    ] > --
                    ] > J C Lawrence suggests reading .signatures
                    ]
                    ] Perhaps you shouldn't hide the important information in the
                    ] signature? If you're actually trying to be helpful and expect
                    ] people to read it, that's just stupid.

                    Hmm. Interesting.

                    I've configured my mail reader to automagically strip away
                    signatures. There is a relatively unknown protocol standard
                    where you make an entire line two dashes, followed by a space,
                    in order to indicate the start of your signature.

                    Most people don't actually use this protocol, so I end up seeing
                    most signatures anyway. Admittedly, my brain still nicely tends
                    to automagically ignore anything in the signature. I guess I'm
                    just not as thorough as JC.

                    It turns out that JC Lawrence not only uses this very polite
                    "here's the start of my signature, so you can ignore anything
                    below it" protocol, but he also puts non-signature, unique
                    information in the signature.

                    Alas, JC, I hope you haven't been telling ME anything important
                    in your signatures, because I haven't been seeing them!

                    John Cataldo, who is not JC, who suggests not putting useful
                    information AFTER the line which explicitly exists to state
                    "there is no useful information after this line."

                    --
                    Insert signature HERE.
                  • J C Lawrence
                    On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:02:20 -0500 ... I hate spelling out puns. Emphasis added ... Yes. -- J C Lawrence suggests contacting
                    Message 9 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
                      On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:02:20 -0500
                      Ronald J Kimball <Ronald> wrote:
                      > On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 10:50:43AM -0500, J C Lawrence wrote:
                      >> On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:10:40 -0000 mrhaleon <haleon@...>

                      >> No, I answered his question as well, AND provided a recommendation of
                      >> contacting the SF moderators address, which I then provided. Do I
                      >> really have to spell out both puns in that message? <shudder> I
                      >> thought this was a game playing group?

                      > I'm not sure what puns you're talking about.

                      <sigh> I hate spelling out puns.

                      Emphasis added

                      > Am I __MISSING__ something __HERE__?

                      Yes.

                      --
                      J C Lawrence suggests contacting spielfrieks-owner@yahoogroups.com

                      He was missing something there. The data he wanted was elsewhere
                      (immediately below). The expected reaction was:

                      "Smug literal-minded asshole!...oh, ahh, uhh, ouch. Not 'here' huh?
                      That's bad, really bad. <emails -owner>"

                      As with all puns: some like 'em, some don't. I happen to like that one.
                      There was some chance he'd miss it, which would be a shame, but one
                      follow-up message would be enough to clarify and play the drumroll to
                      the pun. If he merely stopped at the asshole point, as some here did,
                      that would be regrettable for the opportunity lost, and life would go on
                      without change.

                      >> The very first hit on Google does that, and better than any attempt
                      >> of mine would be.

                      > So why didn't you include the URL in your post?

                      I'm not a wet nurse and the name alone is sufficient key for any inquiry
                      he makes.

                      >> J C Lawrence suggests reading .signatures

                      > Perhaps you shouldn't hide the important information in the signature?

                      But that was the whole joke! The data was missing...and yet not.

                      > If you're actually trying to be helpful and expect people to read it,
                      > that's just stupid.

                      Humour is necessarily and by definition stupid.

                      .signature jokes have been around since the dawn of ARPAnet.

                      That said, yes, I did expect him to read it for the simple reason that
                      the immediately prior sentence was insulting and the very next line
                      mentioned the subject of his question: spielfrieks. If he didn't get it
                      then my next reply would have pointed him back at the .sig on that
                      message, thus even further playing out the pun on missing something
                      here. If he did get it then there would be no need of further traffic
                      and the joke would be compleat. One way he crows laughs and gets what
                      he needs and the other way he goes "Doh!" slaps his forehead and gets
                      what he needs -- in both cases having played a simple fun game which
                      admires him as the reader.

                      --
                      J C Lawrence
                      ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
                      claw@... He lived as a devil, eh?
                      http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
                    • J C Lawrence
                      On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 16:15:01 -0000 ... Oh bollocks. Try and tell a guy that he is smarter than you by giving him something that admires his intelligence and
                      Message 10 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
                        On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 16:15:01 -0000
                        mrhaleon <haleon@...> wrote:

                        > He's WAY smarter than us, after all...

                        Oh bollocks. Try and tell a guy that he is smarter than you by giving
                        him something that admires his intelligence and whaddya get? You get
                        told you're an elitist intellectual.

                        So be it. It is far better than the reverse.

                        --
                        J C Lawrence
                        ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
                        claw@... He lived as a devil, eh?
                        http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
                      • Tami
                        ... get ... I ll agree with the elitist part, anyway. Tami
                        Message 11 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
                          --- In Unity_Games@yahoogroups.com, J C Lawrence <claw@k...> wrote:
                          > On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 16:15:01 -0000
                          > mrhaleon <haleon@s...> wrote:
                          > him something that admires his intelligence and whaddya get? You
                          get
                          > told you're an elitist intellectual.

                          I'll agree with the elitist part, anyway.

                          Tami
                        • J C Lawrence
                          On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 17:27:13 -0000 ... Thanks. I hadn t expected a compliment from you. -- J C Lawrence ... claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil,
                          Message 12 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
                            On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 17:27:13 -0000
                            Tami <yatcher@...> wrote:

                            > I'll agree with the elitist part, anyway.

                            Thanks. I hadn't expected a compliment from you.

                            --
                            J C Lawrence
                            ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
                            claw@... He lived as a devil, eh?
                            http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
                          • Eric Shultz
                            ... If I had to compare, I d say that I understood Mark s answer, and yours not so much. This is unusual, because Mark always leaves out one key piece of
                            Message 13 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
                              --- J C Lawrence <claw@...> wrote:

                              > To pick a comparison:

                              If I had to compare, I'd say that I understood Mark's
                              answer, and yours not so much. This is unusual,
                              because Mark always leaves out one key piece of
                              information so that he can hold mastery over you.

                              > gave him a two layer pun and a trivially small
                              > game/joke to wrap it up
                              > in.

                              Perhaps the instructions for the game and the puns got
                              lost in the translation from the original German?

                              Eric

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                            • J C Lawrence
                              On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:58:03 -0800 (PST) ... Aye, when he introduced us to Union Pacific we threatened him with a pummelling if he tried that tactic. Seeing as
                              Message 14 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
                                On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:58:03 -0800 (PST)
                                Eric Shultz <swift_4@...> wrote:
                                > --- J C Lawrence <claw@...> wrote:

                                >> To pick a comparison:

                                > If I had to compare, I'd say that I understood Mark's answer, and
                                > yours not so much. This is unusual, because Mark always leaves out
                                > one key piece of information so that he can hold mastery over you.

                                Aye, when he introduced us to Union Pacific we threatened him with a
                                pummelling if he tried that tactic. Seeing as we were all sitting
                                between him and the door, or perhaps seeing what easy pigeons we were,
                                he gave a nice clear explanation of the rules with only a few "Oh yes I
                                nearly forgot!" backtracks before we started play. It almost made me
                                forget that it was Mark Edwards at the end of the table.

                                Of course he then beat the living crap out of us...but I can forgive him
                                that. UP is a great game and he gave an excellent introduction to it.
                                Dunno if that's enough for the Pearly Gates however.

                                >> gave him a two layer pun and a trivially small game/joke to wrap it
                                >> up in.

                                > Perhaps the instructions for the game and the puns got lost in the
                                > translation from the original German?

                                Aaaiiiieeeee!

                                I spent much of Sunday and will spend most of tonight fighting rules
                                translations for Ebbe&Flutt and die Erben von Hoax. It was clear for
                                both that the original translations for both sucked and that potentially
                                'better' translations are available. What is missing is any statement
                                of how and why the 'new' translations in fact correct or a substantive
                                improvement.

                                Ebbe&Flutt at least appears to have submitted to pressure and I'll
                                likely post a couple PDFs of my conclusions to the 'geek later. I
                                strongly suspect that die Erben von Hoax is in fact a brilliant game if
                                played by the right rules with a group that groks the rules and their
                                implications, despite the thrashing it got on the 'geek. Hopefully more
                                work will bear this out.

                                Heck, in many ways dEvH reminds me of the worst combination of
                                programming in C and perl: very large calibre weapons aimed at your foot
                                by default and at your skull by the next option, no sanity checks or
                                guard rails, and not a whole lot of clarity as to which end of the gun
                                the bullet comes out of let alone which of the dozen plus triggers you
                                should pull.

                                <This is particularly amusing for me as I love C and loathe perl>

                                --
                                J C Lawrence
                                ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
                                claw@... He lived as a devil, eh?
                                http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
                              • J C Lawrence
                                On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 09:42:03 -0500 ... Oh no, you ve been quite well understood on that score. What you (plural) seem to persist in missing are what my goals
                                Message 15 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
                                  On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 09:42:03 -0500
                                  Mark J Edwards <danger-mouse@...> wrote:

                                  > Like I've said before (perhaps not in so many words), despite your
                                  > extensive vocabulary you have serious interpersonal communication
                                  > problems.

                                  Oh no, you've been quite well understood on that score. What you
                                  (plural) seem to persist in missing are what my goals are and how they
                                  differ from your's/what you assume. Not a problem in the slightest.

                                  BTW: Your response to Alan Kwan and me on SF regarding types of
                                  interactivity was delightful. It quite made my day. I doubt even
                                  Victor Borge could have gotten that dry.

                                  --
                                  J C Lawrence
                                  ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
                                  claw@... He lived as a devil, eh?
                                  http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
                                • Eric Shultz
                                  ... No. Humor is necessarily and by definition funny. Stupid is optional. From the American Heritage Dictionary: The quality that makes something laughable
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
                                    --- J C Lawrence <claw@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Humour is necessarily and by definition stupid.
                                    >

                                    No. Humor is necessarily and by definition funny.
                                    Stupid is optional.

                                    From the American Heritage Dictionary:

                                    "The quality that makes something laughable or
                                    amusing; funniness."

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                                  • Tami
                                    ... they ... Your goals seem to be as follows: 1.) Be as much of a pain in the butt as possible. 2.) Use big words to try to annoy as many people as possible.
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
                                      --- In Unity_Games@yahoogroups.com, J C Lawrence <claw@k...> wrote:
                                      > On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 09:42:03 -0500
                                      > Oh no, you've been quite well understood on that score. What you
                                      > (plural) seem to persist in missing are what my goals are and how
                                      they
                                      > differ from your's/what you assume. Not a problem in the slightest.

                                      Your goals seem to be as follows:

                                      1.) Be as much of a pain in the butt as possible.
                                      2.) Use big words to try to annoy as many people as possible.
                                      3.) Suck up to as many game designers as possible (or maybe just Alan
                                      Moon).
                                      4.) Take up as much space (physical, as well as web-based) as you
                                      can, and waste as much oxygen as possible.

                                      So, if everyone here says that you have accomplished your goals, will
                                      you finally either shut up or go away?

                                      Tami
                                    • Mark Edwards
                                      ... Whoa, whoa, whoa!!! Nice shooting Tex. Now take a deep breath and step back from the keyboard for a bit. Let s just let this one drop. I think we ve
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
                                        At 07:52 PM 12/1/2003 +0000, Tami wrote:
                                        ><snip>
                                        >So, if everyone here says that you have accomplished your goals, will
                                        >you finally either shut up or go away?

                                        Whoa, whoa, whoa!!! Nice shooting Tex. Now take a deep breath and
                                        step back from the keyboard for a bit. Let's just let this one drop. I
                                        think we've hammered it to death.

                                        Mark


                                        If you like board games and live in Eastern MA or the surrounding areas
                                        check out Unity Games -- www.unitygames.org

                                        I'll handle this ... the only danger in space is if we land on the terrible
                                        Planet of the Apes ... wait a minute. Statue of Liberty ... THAT WAS OUR
                                        PLANET! YOU MANIACS! YOU BLEW IT UP! DAMN YOU! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL! -
                                        Homer Simpson
                                      • mrhaleon
                                        ... And the best kind of humour is that which needs to be explained multiple times to the same people... Explanations make things much more with the funness.
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
                                          --- In Unity_Games@yahoogroups.com, Eric Shultz <swift_4@y...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > --- J C Lawrence <claw@k...> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Humour is necessarily and by definition stupid.
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > No. Humor is necessarily and by definition funny.
                                          > Stupid is optional.
                                          >
                                          > From the American Heritage Dictionary:
                                          >
                                          > "The quality that makes something laughable or
                                          > amusing; funniness."
                                          >

                                          And the best kind of humour is that which needs to be explained
                                          multiple times to the same people... Explanations make things much
                                          more with the funness.

                                          --Campbell
                                        • Craig B
                                          ... Yes, but just because something s been around for a while doesn t make it funny, nor does it make it good. Pouring sugar in people s gas tanks is a joke
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
                                            J C Lawrence <claw@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > .signature jokes have been around since the dawn of ARPAnet.

                                            Yes, but just because something's been around for a while doesn't
                                            make it funny, nor does it make it good. Pouring sugar in people's
                                            gas tanks is a "joke" that's been around for a while too. Does that
                                            mean that it's funny? If you think so, I stand ready with a pound of
                                            sugar and a mechanic soon to make a great deal of money from you.

                                            So, I can admire trying to be funny. Hell, making people smile is
                                            one of my favorite things to do. However, if a person doesn't get
                                            the joke (or wasn't looking for a joke, just basic info), then "the
                                            funny" is lost to most everyone but the teller of the joke, who
                                            thinks it's hilarious.

                                            Just my 2 bits...



                                            =====
                                            Craig Brooks
                                            Cheapass Demo Monkey / MIB #0411 email: gilby123@...
                                            http://www.angelfire.com/ma/gilby123/index.html

                                            "Where would we be without the agitators of the
                                            world attaching the electrodes of knowledge to the nipples
                                            of ignorance?" - John Lithgow, 3rd Rock from the Sun

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                                          • J C Lawrence
                                            On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:26:59 -0500 (EST) ... Yeah, I haven t abused that Pine feetchure for years (used to add a signature delimiter to the top of all posts
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
                                              On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:26:59 -0500 (EST)
                                              John P Cataldo <cataldoj@...> wrote:

                                              > I've configured my mail reader to automagically strip away signatures.

                                              Yeah, I haven't abused that Pine feetchure for years (used to add a
                                              signature delimiter to the top of all posts when I was younger and less
                                              silly). It ranks right up there with Outlook's "^begin " behaviour.

                                              > There is a relatively unknown protocol standard where you make an
                                              > entire line two dashes, followed by a space, in order to indicate the
                                              > start of your signature.

                                              I believe the requirement is "--[space][LF]" but a quick search didn't
                                              turn up the standard and I've forgotten where I learnt it. Oddly its
                                              not on RFC 2822.

                                              > Most people don't actually use this protocol...

                                              It used to be that the .sig delimiter was auto-inserted by the mail or
                                              news client. No more, not in this day of mass market induced stupidity.

                                              > Admittedly, my brain still nicely tends to automagically ignore
                                              > anything in the signature.

                                              As do I. That principle of pattern recognition is what .signature jokes
                                              rely on: hidden in plain sight.

                                              > I guess I'm just not as thorough as JC.

                                              If you mine the USENET or FIDO archives you'll find far more than enough
                                              cases of me being royally smacked and gaffed with missed .signature
                                              jokes. Err, actually, don't bother. There aren't any there. Really!
                                              None at all! I got them all... <hangs head in dreadful sorry shame>

                                              > It turns out that JC Lawrence not only uses this very polite "here's
                                              > the start of my signature, so you can ignore anything below it"
                                              > protocol...

                                              Of course. It is the standard.

                                              > ... but he also puts non-signature, unique information in the
                                              > signature.

                                              Sometimes. Rarely. Ignoring cases like the DdJ gag in Spielfrieks
                                              (which only AngelaG braced me on), I try and ensure that any changes I
                                              make to my .sig also change the visual pattern. Well, that is except in
                                              some crypto groups where hidden messages are de rigueur.

                                              eg I did a hidden ROT13'ed message at one point by changing a couple
                                              characters in my .sig for each reply to the list. Sum the changes
                                              over time, ROT13 back, and you got, "I bet you thought this message
                                              was for you!" In the end ~20 people got it within a few hours of my
                                              final message. Excellent fun outside of the fact that I utterly
                                              missed it when it was done back to me.

                                              > Alas, JC, I hope you haven't been telling ME anything important in
                                              > your signatures, because I haven't been seeing them!

                                              Them's the breaks if you configure your mail client that way! Think of
                                              it like X- headers. They are part of the message, just not commonly
                                              examined ones. As such they can be and sometimes are used for useful
                                              additional or OOB information, as well as games, jokes, gags, tricks,
                                              puns etc. They're ripe resources for all that stuff.

                                              A good friend writes ad-hoc haiku for his signatures, a new one for
                                              every message, and topical to that message as well. Missing those would
                                              be a crime.

                                              > John Cataldo, who is not JC, who suggests not putting useful
                                              > information AFTER the line which explicitly exists to state "there is
                                              > no useful information after this line."

                                              The assumption that there is no useful data in a .signature is just
                                              that, an assumption. Often it is true. Sometimes it isn't. That's the
                                              game. Its a question of catching the "Doh! I should have known..."
                                              reaction.

                                              --
                                              J C Lawrence
                                              ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
                                              claw@... He lived as a devil, eh?
                                              http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
                                            • J C Lawrence
                                              On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:52:35 -0800 (PST) ... Humour is the rejection of out points, of things that aren t, can t be, shouldn t be, are illogical etc. Such
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
                                                On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:52:35 -0800 (PST)
                                                Eric Shultz <swift_4@...> wrote:
                                                > --- J C Lawrence <claw@...> wrote:

                                                >> Humour is necessarily and by definition stupid.

                                                > No. Humor is necessarily and by definition funny. Stupid is optional.

                                                Humour is the rejection of out points, of things that aren't, can't be,
                                                shouldn't be, are illogical etc. Such things fit the definition of
                                                "stupid". They are errors, faults, omissions, exaggerations, illogics,
                                                etc.

                                                --
                                                J C Lawrence
                                                ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
                                                claw@... He lived as a devil, eh?
                                                http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
                                              • Mike Long
                                                ... Too bloody much! An ungentle suggestion: either STFU or take it off-list, so you can stop WASTING MY TIME. I m not as diplomatic as Dave B. -- Mike Long
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
                                                  >On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:52:35 -0800 (PST)
                                                  >Eric Shultz <swift_4@...> wrote:
                                                  >> --- J C Lawrence <claw@...> wrote:

                                                  Too bloody much!

                                                  An ungentle suggestion: either STFU or take it off-list, so you can
                                                  stop WASTING MY TIME.

                                                  I'm not as diplomatic as Dave B.
                                                  --
                                                  Mike Long <mike.long(at)analog.com>
                                                  VLSI Design Engineer
                                                  Analog Devices, Mixed Signal Design Group
                                                  Norwood, MA 02062-9106 USA (eq (opinion 'ADI) (opinion 'mike)) -> nil
                                                • Constantine von Hoffman
                                                  there is no such thing as an all-inclusive or accurate definition of humor -- the more you dissect it, the more you lose. ask freud -- whose book on humor was
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
                                                    there is no such thing as an all-inclusive or accurate definition of humor
                                                    -- the more you dissect it, the more you lose. ask freud -- whose book on
                                                    humor was notably unhelpful but whose other books are frequently, albeit
                                                    unintentionally, hilarious. humor is one thing to me and another thing to
                                                    you. you are allowed to find anything funny -- but if you wish to
                                                    communicate what you find funny with an audience beyond just yourself then
                                                    you have to find a common ground and understanding with your audience. if
                                                    they don't share your assumptions about what is funny and you still want
                                                    them to react to what you find humorous then you have to frame it in terms
                                                    that they understand/agree with. if you assert that "I know what is funny
                                                    and you don't" you will get laughed at for your position not for the
                                                    content of your attempted humor.

                                                    At 03:21 PM 12/1/2003 -0500, you wrote:
                                                    >Humour is the rejection of out points, of things that aren't, can't be,
                                                    >shouldn't be, are illogical etc. Such things fit the definition of
                                                    >"stupid". They are errors, faults, omissions, exaggerations, illogics,
                                                    >etc.


                                                    Constantine

                                                    Who has, believe it or not, been paid quite a bit to write humorously and
                                                    who hopes one day to be paid for giving a humorous performance.
                                                  • mrhaleon
                                                    ... and ... drop. I ... I m guessing Mark is also sufferring from the late email problem today... --Campbell
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
                                                      --- In Unity_Games@yahoogroups.com, Mark Edwards <danger-mouse@c...>
                                                      wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Whoa, whoa, whoa!!! Nice shooting Tex. Now take a deep breath
                                                      and
                                                      > step back from the keyboard for a bit. Let's just let this one
                                                      drop. I
                                                      > think we've hammered it to death.
                                                      >
                                                      > Mark
                                                      >

                                                      I'm guessing Mark is also sufferring from the late email problem
                                                      today...

                                                      --Campbell
                                                    • Brian Stormont
                                                      ... JC, if you get a chance, take a look at the summary PDF I made for die Erben von Hoax on BGG. I m not sure I got the German completely right, but it
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
                                                        At 02:20 PM 12/1/2003, JC wrote:
                                                        >I spent much of Sunday and will spend most of tonight fighting rules
                                                        >translations for Ebbe&Flutt and die Erben von Hoax. It was clear for
                                                        >both that the original translations for both sucked and that potentially
                                                        >'better' translations are available. What is missing is any statement
                                                        >of how and why the 'new' translations in fact correct or a substantive
                                                        >improvement.

                                                        JC, if you get a chance, take a look at the summary PDF I made for die
                                                        Erben von Hoax on BGG. I'm not sure I got the German completely right, but
                                                        it seemed to make sense. I tried to match the look of the original German
                                                        summary card but the tinting ended up slightly yellow-green instead of a
                                                        golden-yellow and I was too lazy to redo it in Photoshop.

                                                        ><This is particularly amusing for me as I love C and loathe perl>

                                                        You just need to roll around in the perl mud a little bit longer and let it
                                                        soak under your skin. After a while it can be quite fun (and powerful). I
                                                        used to think it looked like line noise from a bad modem connection, but
                                                        now I find it very useful for certain tasks. Granted I won't be writing
                                                        device drivers for embedded systems in perl, but it is quite handy for a
                                                        lot of tasks.

                                                        Brian
                                                        --
                                                        North Kingstown, RI
                                                      • J C Lawrence
                                                        On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:54:27 -0500 ... Yup, that s one of the first things I printed and cut out. I do wish that the geek put submitter s names against
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Dec 1, 2003
                                                          On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 20:54:27 -0500
                                                          Brian Stormont <yahoo@...> wrote:
                                                          > At 02:20 PM 12/1/2003, JC wrote:

                                                          >> I spent much of Sunday and will spend most of tonight fighting rules
                                                          >> translations for Ebbe&Flutt and die Erben von Hoax. It was clear for
                                                          >> both that the original translations for both sucked and that
                                                          >> potentially 'better' translations are available. What is missing is
                                                          >> any statement of how and why the 'new' translations in fact correct
                                                          >> or a substantive improvement.

                                                          > JC, if you get a chance, take a look at the summary PDF I made for die
                                                          > Erben von Hoax on BGG.

                                                          Yup, that's one of the first things I printed and cut out. I do wish
                                                          that the 'geek put submitter's names against files. Thanks!

                                                          My current concern, which seems to unfounded, is that the Frank
                                                          Branham's rules may be in error. Unfortunately neonate.org appears to
                                                          have fallen off the net and Frank Branham with it, which makes it
                                                          difficult to check for updated versions. As for tonight translation
                                                          efforts, other things have arisen.

                                                          >> <This is particularly amusing for me as I love C and loathe perl>

                                                          > You just need to roll around in the perl mud a little bit longer and
                                                          > let it soak under your skin.

                                                          <shudder>

                                                          > After a while it can be quite fun (and powerful).

                                                          <whimper> This same reasoning leads to Preparation H being primarily
                                                          sold in the super-mega-economy size packs in San Francisco. No thanks.
                                                          (My ex- worked at a drug store in SF for a while)

                                                          > I used to think it looked like line noise from a bad modem connection,
                                                          > but now I find it very useful for certain tasks.

                                                          <mewl> And it didn't stop looking like line noise either...

                                                          > Granted I won't be writing device drivers for embedded systems in
                                                          > perl, but it is quite handy for a lot of tasks.

                                                          </taunt>

                                                          I can live with perl, have had to work with and maintain enough of it,
                                                          but its very hard imagining actually feeling comfortable with it. It
                                                          fits me poorly. I have a very hard time with the simple fact that there
                                                          is no [E]BNF for the language (tho this may change in Perl6 which is far
                                                          more regular)

                                                          These days I do almost all my heavier scripting in Python and have come
                                                          to greatly appreciate its elegance. Grok that white space sensitivity!
                                                          Shell is of course the default tool, then Python, then something with a
                                                          non-byte-coded compiler which usually means C (not a C++ fan tho I've
                                                          done a lot of work in it).

                                                          --
                                                          J C Lawrence
                                                          ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
                                                          claw@... He lived as a devil, eh?
                                                          http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
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