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Re: [Unity_Games] B&N Report or Dawn of the Brain Dead Gamers!

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  • Craig Massey
    ... I m likening Taj to Poker with respect to the card play - again, I don t think that the luck factor of drawn cards plays a huge part. ... I can certainly
    Message 1 of 23 , Oct 4, 2000
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      --- Dave Bernazzani <dber@...> wrote:
      > Craig Massey <cwmassey@...> wrote:
      >
      > >
      > >Okay if I assume that all of the players are of
      > equal
      > >ability/experience, my first comment is that Taj is
      > >very much like poker with the decisions to be made
      > on
      > >when to go into a battle and when to stay out. Do
      > you
      >
      > Yes, quite possibly. But it's like only 12 hands of
      > poker and
      > luck over just 12 hands of poker can be astonishing
      > (having
      > played quite a bit of poker over the years). The
      > card draw from
      > the table helps, but not as much for me since I have
      > no desire to
      > remember every card someone took (if I'm in Elephant
      > mode, I do
      > remember where the dual elephants go - but
      > apparently several
      > were dealt out at the beginning of this game that I
      > couldn't
      > track). Maybe if there were 30 or 50 turns so that
      > you could
      > overcome a few early challenges. But then the game
      > would be very
      > long...

      I'm likening Taj to Poker with respect to the card
      play - again, I don't think that the luck factor of
      drawn cards plays a huge part.

      > Perhaps, but my feeling was to scare them out of
      > battling in the
      > first place. It was obvious that I was likely to
      > win the battle,
      > but the challenges happened anyway...

      I can certainly see using this tactic, but I don't
      like giving more information than necessary to my
      opponents. I have been on the other end of the
      spectrum on a few occasions where I go with a double
      elephant and white elephant only to see noone
      challenge me in elephants which means that I probably
      overspent for the commodity.

      > Anyway, I did try some small cards on some rounds
      > and never got
      > away with a win of less than 3 cards (well, maybe
      > one round I
      > took something for 2 but it was amid a sea of longer
      > battles).
      > You say a person should know when to get out of a
      > battle before
      > burning too many cards - in this particular game, I
      > would have
      > only one or two little prizes the whole evening -
      > but i suppose I
      > would have had a good string of cards for the
      > endgame.

      A string of good cards in the endgame is well worth
      it. Given that each card in a suit is worth 1 point,
      that is probably roughly equivilent to the points
      gained by spending some of the cards in battles.

      > I did the best I could under the circumstances and
      > just fell
      > short of 3rd place by a point (and I battled hard
      > for that extra
      > point in the end - but Pete who typically needed
      > just one or two
      > cards per prize was able to outslug me).

      Taj is a tough game - certainly tougher than I first
      thought. I saw andrew put T&E at the top of his Knizia
      list with Camels second - where do you put Taj Andrew?


      Craig

      =====
      Craig W. Massey
      cwmassey@...

      __________________________________________________
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    • AndAgainMA@aol.com
      Craig comes out and asks me the very question I was avoiding addressing: C Taj is a tough game - certainly tougher than I first thought. I saw andrew put T&E
      Message 2 of 23 , Oct 4, 2000
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        Craig comes out and asks me the very question I was avoiding addressing:
        C>Taj is a tough game - certainly tougher than I first
        thought. I saw andrew put T&E at the top of his Knizia
        list with Camels second - where do you put Taj Andrew?
        <C

        It's not clear to me exactly where Taj belongs among the hordes of 8.something (by my rating) Knizia games. How to compare it with Modern Art, which is so very different, and which I've only played once? Or with Battle Line, again different, and which I've yet to play? Perhaps at card game night this evening :)

        Evasively,

        Andrew.
      • Dave Bernazzani
        ... Ahh... well, most games of poker we play don t involve much card play. Lots of Hold em and 7-card stud variants - so there is very little actual card play
        Message 3 of 23 , Oct 4, 2000
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          > [Taj ~ poker snip]
          > I'm likening Taj to Poker with respect to the card
          > play - again, I don't think that the luck factor of
          > drawn cards plays a huge part.

          Ahh... well, most games of poker we play don't involve much card play. Lots
          of Hold'em and 7-card stud variants - so there is very little actual card
          play (although a few roll-over games we play do have the Taj feel). It's
          more a matter of revealing bits of information common information and
          balancing them against privately held information. I assumed you were
          talking more on the evaluation / bluffing side. But no matter.

          As far as luck goes - there is no real luck in the cards you can choose and
          very little luck in the cards overall, but there is the next closest thing
          to luck - that is where and when your opponents decide to battle. In a 5
          player game, if two sets of two people battle in a particular round and the
          5th person happens to get a prize for one card played, I don't always
          consider that a good play - he *was* fortunate (in whatever terms you want
          to place it) that the other players were either stronger in another area or
          simply decided to pursue a different area for whatever reason. A few
          "gifts" can go a long way to winning the game. A few long battles can go a
          long way to losing it. Yes, you can always pull out of a battle, but often
          you've spent a card and can just as easily be involved in the next battle.
          Without a few one or two card "gifts", you will struggle.

          It doesn't mean I dislike the game, it's still very strong for me. But I'm
          always less prone to like games where the screwage is heavy. This is one of
          the reasons I'm not overly fond of Manhattan.

          --
          Dave Bernazzani
          dber@...
          http://www.gis.net/~dber (South Shore Gamers)
        • Craig Massey
          ... I guess I was comparing Taj to Poker on the similarity of feel around the bluffing and evaluation of others cards based upon the the value of the region
          Message 4 of 23 , Oct 4, 2000
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            --- Dave Bernazzani <dber@...> wrote:
            >
            > > [Taj ~ poker snip]
            > > I'm likening Taj to Poker with respect to the card
            > > play - again, I don't think that the luck factor
            > of
            > > drawn cards plays a huge part.
            >
            > Ahh... well, most games of poker we play don't
            > involve much card play. Lots
            > of Hold'em and 7-card stud variants - so there is
            > very little actual card
            > play (although a few roll-over games we play do have
            > the Taj feel). It's
            > more a matter of revealing bits of information
            > common information and
            > balancing them against privately held information.
            > I assumed you were
            > talking more on the evaluation / bluffing side. But
            > no matter.

            I guess I was comparing Taj to Poker on the similarity
            of feel around the bluffing and evaluation of others
            cards based upon the the value of the region for them.
            Thanks for clarifying my ambiguities.

            > It doesn't mean I dislike the game, it's still very
            > strong for me. But I'm
            > always less prone to like games where the screwage
            > is heavy. This is one of
            > the reasons I'm not overly fond of Manhattan.

            Screwage - another technical term fromt he gaming
            hobby - maybe we should get Walter to compose the
            first Unity glossary of terms adding screwage to such
            classics as weaselopolis, AVF, and others.

            Craig whose hoping to play Taj on Sunday.


            =====
            Craig W. Massey
            cwmassey@...

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          • Craig Massey
            ... I heard answers with more committment behind them in the debate last nite than Andrew s on Taj. (Last time I made a political reference to BLAH, I was
            Message 5 of 23 , Oct 4, 2000
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              --- AndAgainMA@... wrote:
              > Craig comes out and asks me the very question I was
              > avoiding addressing:
              > C>Taj is a tough game - certainly tougher than I
              > first
              > thought. I saw andrew put T&E at the top of his
              > Knizia
              > list with Camels second - where do you put Taj
              > Andrew?
              > <C
              >
              > It's not clear to me exactly where Taj belongs among
              > the hordes of 8.something (by my rating) Knizia
              > games. How to compare it with Modern Art, which is
              > so very different, and which I've only played once?
              > Or with Battle Line, again different, and which I've
              > yet to play? Perhaps at card game night this evening
              > :)

              I heard answers with more committment behind them in
              the debate last nite than Andrew's on Taj. (Last time
              I made a political reference to BLAH, I was lambasted
              later that week, let's see what this one gets me)

              Okay - to fine tune the question - where would you put
              Taj among other Knizia games of same ilk - Samurai,
              Camels, T&E, Taj. Modern Art does fit in this group
              for me, nor do his card games like Battle Line.

              Speaking of Battleline, I'd be happy to give it a go
              tonite - I actually packed Schotten Totten too, but
              would love to see the new version. Andrew - I should
              be done at work on the early side tonite - how early
              can one show up at BLAH (considering I'm still allowed
              after my comment above)

              Craig - Unity's resident muckraker (or so it seems)


              =====
              Craig W. Massey
              cwmassey@...

              __________________________________________________
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            • Dave Bernazzani
              ... Yeah... Andrew s using that Fuzzy Math again. As for me -- the ratings of the big 4 you mentioned: E&T Samurai Taj DdW But all are excellent so it s
              Message 6 of 23 , Oct 4, 2000
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                > [Andrew side-steps the issue snip]
                > I heard answers with more committment behind them in
                > the debate last nite than Andrew's on Taj. (Last time
                > I made a political reference to BLAH, I was lambasted
                > later that week, let's see what this one gets me)

                Yeah... Andrew's using that 'Fuzzy Math' again.

                As for me -- the ratings of the big 4 you mentioned:

                E&T
                Samurai
                Taj
                DdW

                But all are excellent so it's splitting hairs...

                --
                Dave Bernazzani
                dber@...
                http://www.gis.net/~dber (South Shore Gamers)
              • Walter Hunt [ext ]
                ... Yeah, yeah, put the technical writer to work. Hey, I m too busy with Candyland variants. All part of the parental duty, you know? ... You mean who s . On
                Message 7 of 23 , Oct 4, 2000
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                  > Screwage - another technical term fromt he gaming
                  > hobby - maybe we should get Walter to compose the
                  > first Unity glossary of terms adding screwage to such
                  > classics as weaselopolis, AVF, and others.

                  Yeah, yeah, put the technical writer to work. Hey, I'm too busy with Candyland variants. All part of the parental duty, you know?

                  >
                  > Craig whose hoping to play Taj on Sunday.
                  >
                  You mean "who's".

                  On the subject of Sunday, I'd like to note a few games I'd like to play Sunday:
                  San Francisco, Kaufleute von Amsterdam, La Citta`.
                  Anyone else?

                  BTW, we arranged a babysitter for the afternoon, so Lisa (my _much_ better half!) will be coming, along with two other old MVGAers, so we must be over 40 now! Dave, do you want names?

                  Walter
                • AndAgainMA@aol.com
                  OK, Dave and Craig have shamed me into expressing a preference. E&T (second only to Go) DdW Samurai Taj The biggest gap is the one between DdW and Samurai, and
                  Message 8 of 23 , Oct 4, 2000
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                    OK, Dave and Craig have shamed me into expressing a preference.

                    E&T (second only to Go)
                    DdW
                    Samurai
                    Taj

                    The biggest gap is the one between DdW and Samurai, and the smallest, the one between Samurai and Taj.

                    It's interesting that Craig asked for a comparison of Taj with the tile-laying trilogy. My one victory at Taj (out of four or five games so far) was with the "tile-laying" or "longest road" strategy.

                    As a Non-Resident Alien (to use the charming term of your INS), I will not be drawn into any discussion of how You the People choose your presidents... well, not on this list anyway!

                    Craig, the record for early arrival for BLAH's 6:30pm start stands at 6pm. There are no prizes for breaking it! If I'd be keeping records, I could probably report that Alison's mean time of arrival is 6:29:53 (i.e. 7 seconds early), with a standard deviation of about a minute!

                    I should be done inhaling dinner and clearing most things that aren't card games off the tables by around 6:15. Any time after then is fine.

                    Andrew.
                  • Dave Bernazzani
                    ... We currently stood at about 39 (it s hard to judge - people may or may not be bringing one or more other gamers). So, yes, we are likely over 40 now. I ve
                    Message 9 of 23 , Oct 4, 2000
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                      Walter wrote:
                      > [Unity Games]
                      > BTW, we arranged a babysitter for the afternoon,
                      >so Lisa (my _much_ better half!) will be coming, along
                      >with two other old MVGAers, so we must be over 40 now!

                      We currently stood at about 39 (it's hard to judge - people may or may not
                      be bringing one or more other gamers). So, yes, we are likely over 40 now.
                      I've already got Lisa's name badge ready - you put her on the list early so
                      it's good to come though on your original sign-ups :)

                      >Dave, do you want names?

                      If you like... But I'm just about done with the name badges. About 35 are
                      printed up. I'll do a few more for those on the list - but then it will
                      just be blanks that can be filled out that day. I have to print in batches
                      of 4 - and currently there are 3 waiting in the queue for another.

                      I'll give you the sign-up sheet I drafted up when I arrive on Sunday - it's
                      basically a list of ticket #'s and we can fill in the names of people as
                      they arrive so that we have a roll call for the day (and so that Mark can
                      find the people when he pulls ticket numbers for prizes). Also, I'm in the
                      process of making up a game-record sheet for people to write down games they
                      played with participants. It will be something *very* simple - and won't
                      take much time to fill in after a game (no scores or ratings needed this
                      time around). My goal is to get a record of all games played during the
                      day - and I'll need some help from people at all the other tables. This
                      game record will likely be at the head table so after a game, feel free to
                      jog up there and fill it in.

                      The idea is that this paperwork should be minimal and take up almost no time
                      on the participants part - which will leave most of the day to playing games
                      as it should be. If it starts to take up a disproportionate amount of time,
                      I'll just pull it and skip trying to get a record of what was played.

                      Finally - for those who have not heard, the prizes for UG1 have arrived
                      safely. Boulder Games has thrown in some excellent free stuff in addition to
                      the normal prizes and Walter was able to secure gift cert. from a local shop
                      called The Whiz in Westboro. Greg Schloesser has offered us a 3 month free
                      membership to the Strategy Gaming Society (5% discounts, The Strategist mag,
                      etc) as a prize. Plenty of people have offered to donate some small stuff.
                      Mark Edwards has volunteered to run the prize table throughout the day so be
                      nice to him, OK? hehheh :)

                      --
                      Dave Bernazzani
                      dber@...
                      http://www.gis.net/~dber (South Shore Gamers)
                    • Mark Edwards
                      ... Or else I ll force you to play 5 player Taj Mahal with me until I get cranky and boorish! Mark (who s still feeling a bit guilty, but not to worry, I ll
                      Message 10 of 23 , Oct 4, 2000
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                        Dave Bernazzani wrote:

                        > Mark Edwards has volunteered to run the prize table throughout the day so be
                        > nice to him, OK? hehheh :)

                        Or else I'll force you to play 5 player Taj Mahal with me until I get cranky and boorish!

                        Mark (who's still feeling a bit guilty, but not to worry, I'll be well over the guilt by Sunday! ;-) )


                        --

                        http://people.ne.mediaone.net/dangermouse/index.htm
                        Home of the Guy Stuff Gamers & the XFFL!
                        "Ahh, humor you seek. Fail you will!" - My Conversation With Yoda
                      • David Rapp
                        Here s hoping I ll finally get a chance to play Bluff this Sunday! Also, kind of hoping to try Tabula Rasa if someone has it... D
                        Message 11 of 23 , Oct 4, 2000
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                          Here's hoping I'll finally get a chance to play Bluff this Sunday! Also,
                          kind of hoping to try Tabula Rasa if someone has it...

                          D
                        • Dave Bernazzani
                          ... That won t be a problem, I suspect! Our group has made it a filler most weeks and I m sure it will get some play time Sunday. On a side-note, I did
                          Message 12 of 23 , Oct 4, 2000
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                            >
                            > Here's hoping I'll finally get a chance to play Bluff this Sunday! Also,
                            > kind of hoping to try Tabula Rasa if someone has it...
                            >

                            That won't be a problem, I suspect! Our group has made it a filler most
                            weeks and I'm sure it will get some play time Sunday. On a side-note, I did
                            finally get my copy of Bluff after finally deciding (over the past year)
                            that it belongs in my collection (I was using a home-made set since it's
                            just Dice, Cups and small board - but an official set is worthwhile
                            especially since you can pick one up on ebay fairly cheaply).

                            --
                            Dave Bernazzani
                            dber@...
                            http://www.gis.net/~dber (South Shore Gamers)
                          • Walter Hunt [ext ]
                            Hey Dave, Did you see the flyer PDF I sent you last night? What do you think? ... Walter H. Hunt Senior Technical Writer VistaSource, Inc. 114 Turnpike Rd.,
                            Message 13 of 23 , Oct 5, 2000
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                              Hey Dave,

                              Did you see the flyer PDF I sent you last night? What do you think?


                              ----------------------
                              Walter H. Hunt
                              Senior Technical Writer
                              VistaSource, Inc.
                              114 Turnpike Rd., Westboro, MA 01581 whunt@...
                              (508) 870-0300 ext. 391

                              millihelen (n.) -- That quantity of beauty required to launch one ship.
                            • Walter Hunt [ext ]
                              I m sorry, I m an idiot. That was supposed to be e-mail, not broadcast to the group. I designed a little flyer for Sunday. I ll have a sample to show at SSG
                              Message 14 of 23 , Oct 5, 2000
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                                I'm sorry, I'm an idiot. That was supposed to be e-mail, not broadcast to the group.

                                I designed a little flyer for Sunday. I'll have a sample to show at SSG Saturday if anyone wants to make last-minute suggestions.

                                ----------------------
                                Walter H. Hunt
                                Senior Technical Writer
                                VistaSource, Inc.
                                114 Turnpike Rd., Westboro, MA 01581 whunt@...
                                (508) 870-0300 ext. 391

                                millihelen (n.) -- That quantity of beauty required to launch one ship.
                              • Dave Bernazzani
                                ... Walter (I assume you meant to send that email privately, but the group might appreciate your efforts), UG1 flyer looks great! I sent you a detailed
                                Message 15 of 23 , Oct 5, 2000
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                                  >
                                  > Did you see the flyer PDF I sent you last night? What do you think?
                                  >

                                  Walter (I assume you meant to send that email privately, but the group might
                                  appreciate your efforts),

                                  UG1 flyer looks great! I sent you a detailed message on it this morning to
                                  your home email. Looks near professional quality :)

                                  Be sure to print up at least 40 of them for the event.

                                  Two new people asked to come to UG1 yesterday (both probable, not definite).
                                  Just when I thought we had maxed out. But we lost one person so it's
                                  probably a wash. To be honest, I've done the best I could to track who will
                                  be going, but I suspect it may still be a surprise who actually shows up on
                                  Sunday.

                                  Woke up this morning thinking it was UG-minus-four. But it's really
                                  UG-minus-three so that got me a bit more excited about waking up today!

                                  --
                                  Dave Bernazzani
                                  dber@...
                                  http://www.gis.net/~dber (South Shore Gamers)
                                • Walter Hunt [ext ]
                                  Same place (Holliston), same time (7 PM). I have the usual tub o games with me. For Mark E.: Venture is in the box. For Mark T.: I brought my Siedler box, as
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Oct 5, 2000
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                                    Same place (Holliston), same time (7 PM).

                                    I have the usual tub o'games with me. For Mark E.: Venture is in the box. For Mark T.: I brought my Siedler box, as well as Siedler: Staedte & Ritter, so you can take a look at that if you show.

                                    Anyone interested in seeing the site of UG 1 can pay us a Thursday night visit. It'll be less hectic than Sunday, anyway --


                                    ----------------------
                                    Walter H. Hunt
                                    Senior Technical Writer
                                    VistaSource, Inc.
                                    114 Turnpike Rd., Westboro, MA 01581 whunt@...
                                    (508) 870-0300 ext. 391

                                    millihelen (n.) -- That quantity of beauty required to launch one ship.
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