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Re: [Unity_Games] Game metrics

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  • Eric Shultz
    ... We ll, I ll have to tell you next December.... I can tell you that I ve played Wizard almost every month, but that s Bernazzani s fault. Eric Shultz
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 31, 2002
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      --- Matthew Gray <matthew@...> wrote:
      > So, for those who have the inclination, I'd be
      > curious to see what
      > others top games by the month metric are, as well as
      > any comments on
      > the metric itself.
      >

      We'll, I'll have to tell you next December....

      I can tell you that I've played Wizard almost every
      month, but that's Bernazzani's fault.

      Eric Shultz

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    • Adam Smiles
      I haven t looked at any of the statistics, or my own records at home... It seems like the Month Metric would be useful separating the middle of the pack, but
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 31, 2002
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        I haven't looked at any of the statistics, or my own records at home...

        It seems like the "Month Metric" would be useful separating the middle of
        the pack, but it is going to bunch the top together.

        The only example that I can think of off the top of my head is comparing
        Werewolf to Puerto Rico. Werewolf gets played about once a month at B2O.
        Puerto Rico gets played at least once just about every session at B2O. By
        the Month Metric, both of these games would likely score above 10 for me,
        yet I have probably played 30-40 games of PR and maybe 12-15 of Werewolf.

        But, as your concerns were balance and replayability and long term analysis
        (not just the past year) I doubt that you are that are worried about the
        tails of the distribution. And if you were, you'd just use a different
        metric for that.

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      • Matthew Gray
        As the year comes to an end, lots of folks (including me) are going to write up their annual summaries. How many games were played, which games were played
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 31, 2002
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          As the year comes to an end, lots of folks (including me) are going to
          write up their annual summaries. How many games were played, which
          games were played the most, etc. etc. A common (and useful)
          conclusion that is drawn is which games are "best" by some metric.

          There's a variety of measurements people apply, the total number of
          plays being the most common. As a measure of how "good" a game is,
          it's not bad, but it doesn't take into account length of the game or
          replayability over time. That is, a 15 minute game that's played 6
          times is probably not "better" than a 3 hour game that's played 3
          times. On the other hand, using total time playing has problems on
          the low end: A 15 minute game played 10 times is probably "better"
          than a two hour game played twice. Further, a game played every other
          week for a year is probably "better" than one played every day for a
          month and then never again.

          Various other metrics have been suggested, including Joe Huber's
          "happiness" metric which works well, but requires a lot of
          bookkeeping. So, I've been trying to identify a metric of game
          "quality" that meets the following criteria:

          - Doesn't bias unduly for or against long or short games
          - Doesn't require ratings
          - Doesn't require overly detailed records
          - Doesn't overly credit "fad" games that get played a lot for a little while
          and then never again
          - Does bias towards "classics", though not overwhelmingly
          - Measures "replayability" in some form
          - Is easily understood and doesn't require deep understanding of statistics
          - Is easily calculated
          - Can be readily used on a per year basis or on a "all-time" basis

          So, after careful consideration and analysis, I've come up with a
          metric that I like and thought I would share it and suggest it to all
          :-) I've actually suggested this metric before, off-handedly but I
          like it even more now that I've looked at the actual statistics for my
          own games.

          The metric is the "month metric", in which a game receives 1 point for
          every unique month in which it is played. For example, I played
          Medici in both February and March of this year, so for the year it
          scores a "2", but it also was played in 5 different months over
          2000-2001, so it's total score is a "7".

          For my own games, only a dozen games have an all-time score above 10
          and there's a nice distribution below that. For the year, naturally a
          "12" is the highest possible score, though I had no game above 7, but
          a solid group (9 games) at 6 or above. The other nice thing about
          this metric is that I find it is (probably unsurprisingly) heavily
          correlated with all of the other metrics discussed (# plays, total
          time playing, "happiness").

          So, for those who have the inclination, I'd be curious to see what
          others top games by the month metric are, as well as any comments on
          the metric itself.

          When I send out my year-end summary, I'll include my results.

          ...Matthew
        • Eric Shultz
          ... It would work well for someone who has access to a variety of games. I own about 15 Euro style games and attend SSG only. While people bring a variety of
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 31, 2002
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            --- Matthew Gray <matthew@...> wrote:
            > As I mentioned in a reply on spielfrieks, it could
            > be that this metric
            > is more tailored to my frequency and variability of
            > play than I
            > realized.
            >
            > ...Matthew


            It would work well for someone who has access to a
            variety of games. I own about 15 Euro style games and
            attend SSG only. While people bring a variety of
            games to SSG, I often will only play a game once, then
            I won't see it again. We have only 3.5 hours maximum
            at Barnes and Nobles, so that tends to limit the types
            of games that get played.

            Like I sort of said before, I plan to start keeping
            track and see what happens.

            Eric Shultz

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          • Matthew Gray
            ... For a one year period, this will be true, though I m not convinced this is that bad. I have 8 games for this year which have a score of 6 or 7 and none
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 31, 2002
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              > It seems like the "Month Metric" would be useful separating the middle of
              > the pack, but it is going to bunch the top together.

              For a one year period, this will be true, though I'm not convinced
              this is that bad. I have 8 games for this year which have a score of
              6 or 7 and none higher. While some may stand out, in many ways I
              think it is sometimes artificial to try and explicitly rank many very
              different games that are all "great".

              Over a longer period of time, at least for me, it spreads out nicely.
              The top few scores I have are 17, 15, 15, 13, 12, 11, 11, 11, 10, 10,
              10.

              As I mentioned in a reply on spielfrieks, it could be that this metric
              is more tailored to my frequency and variability of play than I
              realized.

              ...Matthew
            • Craig Massey
              ... Game - month metric/x player Spades - 10/31 Princes of Florence - 7/8 Puerto Rico - 7/52 Carcasonne - 6/19 Haste Worte - 6/11 Web of Power - 6/8 Liar s
              Message 6 of 14 , Jan 2, 2003
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                --- Matthew Gray <matthew@...> wrote:
                > So, for those who have the inclination, I'd be
                > curious to see what
                > others top games by the month metric are, as well as
                > any comments on
                > the metric itself.

                Game - month metric/x player
                Spades - 10/31
                Princes of Florence - 7/8
                Puerto Rico - 7/52
                Carcasonne - 6/19
                Haste Worte - 6/11
                Web of Power - 6/8
                Liar's Dice - 5/10
                Password - 5/9
                Ra - 5/7
                Transamerica - 5/10
                Catch Phrase - 4/12
                Funkenschlag - 4/6
                Kardinal & Konig: Das Kartenspiel - 4/5
                Wyatt Earp - 4/4

                Not sure what this says about my rankings of games or
                how it best correlates. There are some in my top 10
                favorites for the year and several that wouldn't be in
                my top 20 favorites of the year too - TransAmerica and
                Carcassonne for instance.

                Craig



                =====
                Craig W. Massey
                cwmassey@...

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              • Eric Shultz
                ... TransAmerica continues to be an enigma. It might not be on anyone s favorites list, but it will appear on many people s frequency lists - by any metric.
                Message 7 of 14 , Jan 2, 2003
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                  --- Craig Massey <cwmassey@...> wrote:
                  >. There are some in my top 10
                  > favorites for the year and several that wouldn't be
                  > in
                  > my top 20 favorites of the year too - TransAmerica
                  > and
                  > Carcassonne for instance.

                  TransAmerica continues to be an enigma. It might not
                  be on anyone's favorites list, but it will appear on
                  many people's frequency lists - by any metric.
                  Someone says, "Well, I brought TransAmerica...." Then
                  someone says, "Sure. Why not..." Next thing you
                  know, you're plotting a strategy based on the cards in
                  your hand, knowing full well that the cards in your
                  hand are about all the strategy there is.

                  Personally, I thing TransAmerica is actually a
                  sentient being disguised as a board game. It doesn't
                  want anyone to know its true nature, but it enjoys
                  being fondled. Kind of like Matt Horn.

                  (Sorry Matt. You deserved that for your sneaky KK&K
                  win yesterday.)

                  Eric Shultz

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                • Matthew Horn
                  I don t think Dave Fontes fondled me 8 times last year. That number is very low. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jan 2, 2003
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                    I don't think Dave Fontes fondled me 8 times last year. That number is very low.

                    >> TransAmerica ... doesn't want anyone to know its true nature, but it enjoys
                    >> being fondled. Kind of like Matt Horn.



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • David Fontes
                    ... Top games for me this year (I did not record monthly statistics last year) by this metric would be: Hick Hack in Gacklewack (10) Call My Bluff (9)
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jan 2, 2003
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                      --- Matthew Gray <matthew@...> wrote:
                      > So, for those who have the inclination, I'd be
                      > curious to see what
                      > others top games by the month metric are, as well as
                      > any comments on
                      > the metric itself.

                      Top games for me this year (I did not record monthly statistics last year)
                      by this metric would be:

                      Hick Hack in Gacklewack (10)
                      Call My Bluff (9)
                      Crokinole (8) - interestingly, I did not play this at all during the summer
                      months - I guess it is a cold weather game!
                      Catch Phrase (7)
                      6 Nimmt! (7)
                      Werewolf (7)
                      Princes of Florence (6)
                      Transamerica (6)
                      Can't Stop (5)
                      Lord of the Rings: the Confrontation (5)
                      Traumfabrik (5)

                      The most noticeable differences from my listing by number of games played is
                      that the games I played alot with my family, Abstracts, Apples to Apples,
                      and Mausse-Rallye, dropped off this list since many plays were clustered in
                      November and December over the holidays. Also, LotR:tC is unfairly pushed to
                      the bottom of the list, since I have only owned it for five months, but
                      played it at least once in each of those months.
                      -David
                      =============
                      David Fontes http://www.mmiusa.com/ookpik/
                      dfontes@...
                    • Mark Edwards
                      ... Heheheh. I especially liked his I haven t been involved in a deal since.... act. Him and Campbell, what a pair of weasels. If only I rolled a 1 .
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jan 2, 2003
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                        At 09:24 AM 1/2/2003 -0800, you wrote:
                        >(Sorry Matt. You deserved that for your sneaky KK&K
                        >win yesterday.)

                        Heheheh. I especially liked his "I haven't been involved in a deal
                        since...." act. Him and Campbell, what a pair of weasels. If only I
                        rolled a '1'.

                        Mark


                        If you like board games and live in Eastern MA or the surrounding areas
                        check out Unity Games -- www.unitygames.org

                        "He was just 91 on the day he passed on, it was the way that he hoped it
                        would be,
                        He was shot by a beauty queen's husband in a fit of jealousy.
                        As he lay on the floor a priest was sent forward, and with his last breath
                        Johnny confessed,
                        _I spent all of my money on woman and drink and like a fool I squandered
                        the rest._"
                        -- from "Go 'Round Again" by Benny Hill
                      • Eric Shultz
                        If only whoever it was didn t roll the 2. Then I would have killed on the next deal. I love that game. Eric ...
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jan 2, 2003
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                          If only whoever it was didn't roll the 2. Then I
                          would have killed on the next deal. I love that game.

                          Eric

                          --- Mark Edwards <danger.mouse@...> wrote:
                          > At 09:24 AM 1/2/2003 -0800, you wrote:
                          > >(Sorry Matt. You deserved that for your sneaky
                          > KK&K
                          > >win yesterday.)
                          >
                          > Heheheh. I especially liked his "I haven't been
                          > involved in a deal
                          > since...." act. Him and Campbell, what a pair of
                          > weasels. If only I
                          > rolled a '1'.
                          >
                          > Mark
                          >
                          >
                          > If you like board games and live in Eastern MA or
                          > the surrounding areas
                          > check out Unity Games -- www.unitygames.org
                          >
                          > "He was just 91 on the day he passed on, it was the
                          > way that he hoped it
                          > would be,
                          > He was shot by a beauty queen's husband in a fit of
                          > jealousy.
                          > As he lay on the floor a priest was sent forward,
                          > and with his last breath
                          > Johnny confessed,
                          > _I spent all of my money on woman and drink and like
                          > a fool I squandered
                          > the rest._"
                          > -- from "Go 'Round Again" by Benny Hill
                          >
                          >


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                        • Walter H. Hunt
                          ... I certainly fondled Matt more often than that :-) Walter.
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jan 2, 2003
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                            Matthew Horn wrote:

                            >I don't think Dave Fontes fondled me 8 times last year. That number is very low.
                            >
                            > >> TransAmerica ... doesn't want anyone to know its true nature, but it enjoys
                            > >> being fondled. Kind of like Matt Horn.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            I certainly fondled Matt more often than that :-)

                            Walter.
                          • Campbell MacInnes <haleon@sennicam.com>
                            I rolled the 2, actually. I might note, MARK, that you came in second after Matt, I was in 3rd. A close game nonetheless, with 1 buck separating each of us.
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jan 2, 2003
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                              I rolled the 2, actually.

                              I might note, MARK, that you came in second after Matt, I was in 3rd.

                              A close game nonetheless, with 1 buck separating each of us.

                              --Campbell, less weasel than he is reputed to be.


                              --- In Unity_Games@yahoogroups.com, Eric Shultz <swift_4@y...> wrote:
                              > If only whoever it was didn't roll the 2. Then I
                              > would have killed on the next deal. I love that game.
                              >
                              > Eric
                              >
                              > --- Mark Edwards <danger.mouse@a...> wrote:
                              > > At 09:24 AM 1/2/2003 -0800, you wrote:
                              > > >(Sorry Matt. You deserved that for your sneaky
                              > > KK&K
                              > > >win yesterday.)
                              > >
                              > > Heheheh. I especially liked his "I haven't been
                              > > involved in a deal
                              > > since...." act. Him and Campbell, what a pair of
                              > > weasels. If only I
                              > > rolled a '1'.
                              > >
                              > > Mark
                              > >
                              > >
                            • Eric Shultz
                              ... Not MUCH less. You still outweaseled me. Eric __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable.
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jan 2, 2003
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                                --- "Campbell MacInnes <haleon@...>" > -->
                                >Campbell, less weasel than he is reputed to be.


                                Not MUCH less. You still outweaseled me.

                                Eric

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