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Re: [UniQuaria] Baffled...

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  • Patrick, The American Fish Guy
    That is the worst thing you could do. Ich isn t a disease, it is a symptom of bad water quality. When you boiled everything, you did nothing to get rid of
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 4, 2005
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          That is the worst thing you could do.  Ich isn't a disease, it is a symptom of bad water quality.  When you boiled everything, you did nothing to get rid of the ich but did wipe out all the good bacteria that could help with water quality. 
          First you should make sure it is ich.  A lot of people think ich is a general term for any fish disease.  Ich is a specific parasite (or group of them).  If a fish has ich, it will look like a grain of salt on it.  There could be one spot, or several.
          What should you do to get rid of ich?  My theory is that you should never try to get rid of ich in your tank.  That would require a full sterilization of the tank and fish, meaning radiation/heat or bleach to kill all living organisms in the tank.  Why even bother if you are going to have to kill the fish.  I suspect, based on what I have read and experienced, that all tanks have ich living in them in some number.  They normally can't get a foot hold on a healthy fish, so they don't multiply very much.  When something happens to weaken a fish, the ich is finally able to get that foot hold.  The stress that weakens a fish can be related to the nitrogen cycle, moving a new fish into the tank, or being chased by another fish.
          So what can you do?  First you should remove the source of stress.  If there is an aggressive fish, separate that fish from the others.  If it is caused by water quality issues, get those under control through water changes.  If the fish has just be moved into the tank, there isn't much you can do for it other than make sure the other two sources of stress are taken care of.  I don't like ich medicine.  I have had limited success with them.  I suspect the reason is that I was using them to treat the symptom (ich) when I should have been treating the real problem (poor water quality).  On the other hand, I have had great success with water changes, turning the heat to 83-84°F, and adding 1 teaspoon of salt for each 5 gallons.  The usefulness of salt is controversial, and I have had success with just water changes and turning up the heat.
       
      Patrick, the American Fish Guy
       
      Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
      About my tanks:  
      29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
      -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2 home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
      -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns, hornwort, and amazon swords.
      -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
      10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
      -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
      -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
      -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power filter.
      -------Original Message-------
      Well from what I can figure it must be ich...
      So I took everything out boiled it put clout in the tank and salt....I put a heater in to raise the temp from 76 to 85 but that will take some time....I wonder how this treatment will affect my 2 pregnant Guppies...
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    • Julie Haddy
      ... had a male platy with some white streaks and maybe red spots ...It was not easy to see the red color...The fish was gold... But it appeared eating away at
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 4, 2005
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        > Maybe 3 months ago I had a male platy with some white streaks and maybe red spots ...It was not easy to see the red color...The fish was gold... But it appeared eating away at the scales...I treated her for bacterial and for parasites ..But he only got worse...I probably over medicated him...I broke down the tank and split up the fish but now I see what looks like the same thing on another  male Platy... Any help will be appreciated. Thanks, Bob

        Well from what I can figure it must be ich...
        So I took everything out boiled it put clout in the tank and salt....I put a heater in to raise the temp from 76 to 85 but that will take some time....I wonder how this treatment will affect my 2 pregnant Guppies...

        Doesn't sounds like ich to me, not sure what it is, but I've never seen red streaks with ich.  Ich looks salt sprinkled on the fish.  If you do medicate, be sure to monitor your water conditions carefully.  It's too easy to disrupt your tank cycle and make things worse rather than better.  My first line of defense with any problems that crop up is a water change, maybe adjust the temperature, occasionally treat with Melafix, but that's about it.  I'd rather sacrifice one fish than risk losing the tank by tampering with it too much.  YMMV.

        Julie Haddy
      • alglea@aol.com
        As a counter point - I moved my Syn. Eup. to my 100 Gal African tank from my 36 Gal - mixed semi-agressive. He got ick in a couple of days and I also
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 4, 2005
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          As a counter point - I moved my Syn. Eup. to my 100 Gal African tank from my 36 Gal - mixed semi-agressive.   He got ick in a couple of days and I also noticed it on my Red Shoulder Peacock.   I took out my carbon filters and used Ick-X at half dose.  Now - two days later - Peacock is clean and Syn is almost there.
           
          Patrick seems like he really knows his stuff - so not trying to doubt him - just giving another example where the medicine seems to be working well.  Just don't let it touch anything as my wife is not going to be happy when she see's the blue spot on the coffee table!  :).
           
          Al
        • Bob
          ... Hey Patrick buddy....My aching back...With treating these guys I did a water change added coppersafe doing another now...The Guppies decided to dump
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 5, 2005
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            --- In UniQuaria@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick, The American Fish Guy" <americanfishguy@h...> wrote:
            > That is the worst thing you could do. Ich isn't a disease, it is a
            > symptom of bad water quality. When you boiled everything, you did nothing
            > to get rid of the ich but did wipe out all the good bacteria that could help
            > with water quality.
            > First you should make sure it is ich. A lot of people think ich is a
            > general term for any fish disease. Ich is a specific parasite (or group of
            > them). If a fish has ich, it will look like a grain of salt on it. There
            > could be one spot, or several.
            > What should you do to get rid of ich? My theory is that you should
            > never try to get rid of ich in your tank. That would require a full
            > sterilization of the tank and fish, meaning radiation/heat or bleach to kill
            > all living organisms in the tank. Why even bother if you are going to have
            > to kill the fish. I suspect, based on what I have read and experienced,
            > that all tanks have ich living in them in some number. They normally can't
            > get a foot hold on a healthy fish, so they don't multiply very much. When
            > something happens to weaken a fish, the ich is finally able to get that foot
            > hold. The stress that weakens a fish can be related to the nitrogen cycle,
            > moving a new fish into the tank, or being chased by another fish.
            > So what can you do? First you should remove the source of stress. If
            > there is an aggressive fish, separate that fish from the others. If it is
            > caused by water quality issues, get those under control through water
            > changes. If the fish has just be moved into the tank, there isn't much you
            > can do for it other than make sure the other two sources of stress are taken
            > care of. I don't like ich medicine. I have had limited success with them.
            > I suspect the reason is that I was using them to treat the symptom (ich)
            > when I should have been treating the real problem (poor water quality). On
            > the other hand, I have had great success with water changes, turning the
            > heat to 83-84°F, and adding 1 teaspoon of salt for each 5 gallons. The
            > usefulness of salt is controversial, and I have had success with just water
            > changes and turning up the heat.
            >
            > Patrick, the American Fish Guy
            >
            Hey Patrick buddy....My aching back...With treating these guys I did a water change added coppersafe doing another now...The Guppies decided to dump babies on me....I am still waiting for the heat.....It moved maybe 2 degrees to 78...There are 3 white dots with erosion just on the one Platy... They all are very actve?











            > Click the link below to learn about the Nitrogen Cycle.
            > Nitrogen Cycle
            > About my tanks:
            > 29 gallon tank (110 Litters).
            > -I have 5 glolights, 2 neons and 3 black neons, 3 skirt tetras, 2
            > home-raised mollies, 2 Otocinclus catfish, 3 juli cories, 1 pleco, one
            > female betta, and 1 paradise gourami.
            > -Plants: "hardy" aponongetons, red tiger lotus, banana plants, java ferns,
            > hornwort, and amazon swords.
            > -Single 20 watt 5000K light, plain gravel, Regent 30-60 power filter.
            > 10 gallon tank (38 Liters).
            > -4 betta splendens (born June 2004), 1 albino cory.
            > -Plants: hornwort, java fern, red tiger lotus, amazon sword.
            > -2 10 watt 6500K mini fluorescent lights, plain gravel, Regent 10-15 power
            > filter.
            > -------Original Message-------
            > Well from what I can figure it must be ich...
            > So I took everything out boiled it put clout in the tank and salt....I put a heater in to raise the temp from 76 to 85 but that will take some time....I wonder how this treatment will affect my 2 pregnant Guppies...
          • phrankg@optonline.net
            ACK! Please be careful when using this medication. It s a heavily chelated copper that
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 6, 2005
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              << With treating these guys I did a water change added coppersafe >>

              ACK! Please be careful when using this medication. It's a heavily chelated copper that can cause more problems for the fish than the disease it's touted to cure (anemia, depression of the immune system, gill clubbing and liver damage, to name a few)! IMO, it should never be used on fish. There are far safer medications that work just as well.

              Frank
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