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Re: [UniQuaria] What do you think?

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  • Bob Raible
    The reason we need additional filtration is that most of us (myself included) insist on stocking densities much higher than would naturally exist in
    Message 1 of 17 , Apr 1, 2001
      The reason we need additional filtration is that most of us (myself
      included) insist on stocking densities much higher than would naturally
      exist in equilibrium. I also agree with Tom in that some sort of water
      movement is desirable. A trio of small apistos, lightly fed in a
      heavily planted (fast growing plannts) 20g long with 80W or so of
      lighting would be the sort of ratio that could work. Not too many of my
      tanks come close.

      --- Tom Bates <fish2r@...> wrote:
      > Michiko;
      >
      > While it is true that filters are not needed on a well planted
      > aquarium,
      > some form of circulation is needed. Plants themselves are terrific
      > filters
      > all by themselves.
      >
      > The key phrase was "well planted". If the tank is not planted heavily
      > enough
      > they may not be able to keep up with the waste production of the
      > fish.
      >
      > Tom Bates - Senior LMD
      > Allentown, PA USA
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UniQuaria
      > http://dive.to/UniQuaria
      >


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    • Tom Bates
      ... From: Hal Williams To: Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 9:56 PM Subject: Re: [UniQuaria] What do you
      Message 2 of 17 , Apr 1, 2001
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Hal Williams" <halrwilliams@...>
        To: <UniQuaria@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 9:56 PM
        Subject: Re: [UniQuaria] What do you think?


        > Hi Jeroen (or anyone else that wants to jump in)
        >
        > > A filter is still necessary. ...you still need some form of
        mechanical
        > filtration and a source of water movement.
        >
        > Why is a filter still necessary? I'm not disagreeing, I just don't
        > understand.

        As Bob said, this all comes down to fish stocking levels. If stocking levels
        are high we want the majority of the waste materials to get trapped in the
        filter. What does not enter the filter would settle down through the
        substrate to provide nutrients for the plants roots as it decays. If we were
        to allow all this waste to settle into the substrate, it would accuulate to
        quickly.

        > And I'm not questioning the need for water movement, only
        > filtration. Could you have a tank that had some perfect ratio of plants
        to
        > fish to water that wouldn't require filtration, or is there something that
        > still needs to be removed?

        If the fish load were low enough, a filter would not be needed. In a well
        planted aquarium with a minimal fish load, any waste a filter may collect
        would be better suited to aid in the nutrients available to the plants
        roots.

        > Or is the problem that there typically isn't enough water to keep a stable
        > balance for the plant and animal densities that we choose to keep?

        This is very subjective since each aquarist keeps different fish and total
        stocking levels.

        > Or is it just to keep the water clear so we can enjoy watching our plants
        > and fish?

        A non-filtered lightly stocked (fish) aquarium will be as clear as the same
        aquarium with a filter providing all parameters are equal.

        > The books told me I needed mechanical, chemical and biological filters.
        You
        > guy convinced me I didn't need (in fact, shouldn't have) a chemical
        filter,
        > so I ditched it. Then you convinced me I didn't need a bio filter (so I
        > lost it).

        I assume you mean a bio-wheel. You still have a bio filter since nitrifying
        bacteria inhabit every square inch of the aquarium. The reason we suggested
        removing the bio-wheel was not to eliminate the bio-filter but to eliminate
        the unecessary CO2 loss these create.

        >Now I'm thinking about upgrading to a canister mechanical filter,
        > but am half seriously thinking that a small pond pump would be a lot
        > cheaper, and I could buy a diatom filter with my savings :o) I anxiously
        > await opinions.

        If you are at all unsure if your stocking level would allow a filter to not
        be used, opt for the safe route and get a canister. It is better to be safe
        than sorry. Most people who experiment in eliminating the need for a filter,
        have a filter at hand in case their suspicions do not pay off.

        Keep the Diatom options open since these are wonderful filters. You will not
        be sorry if you get one.

        > Hal Williams,
        > San Clemente, CA

        Tom Bates - Senior LMD
        Allentown, PA USA
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UniQuaria
        http://dive.to/UniQuaria
      • Alfred Heng
        I have run unfiltered tanks before with no problems, but be warned, the moment you get a fast fish like a clown loach, be prepared for a cloudy tank!!! His
        Message 3 of 17 , Apr 1, 2001
          I have run unfiltered tanks before with no problems, but be warned, the
          moment you get a fast fish like a clown loach, be prepared for a cloudy
          tank!!! His zooming around will stir up alot of gunk!

          Alfred
          --- Tom Bates <fish2r@...> wrote:
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Hal Williams" <halrwilliams@...>
          > To: <UniQuaria@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 9:56 PM
          > Subject: Re: [UniQuaria] What do you think?
          >
          >
          > > Hi Jeroen (or anyone else that wants to jump in)
          > >
          > > > A filter is still necessary. ...you still need some form of
          > mechanical
          > > filtration and a source of water movement.
          > >
          > > Why is a filter still necessary? I'm not disagreeing, I just don't
          > > understand.
          >
          > As Bob said, this all comes down to fish stocking levels. If stocking
          > levels
          > are high we want the majority of the waste materials to get trapped
          > in the
          > filter. What does not enter the filter would settle down through the
          > substrate to provide nutrients for the plants roots as it decays. If
          > we were
          > to allow all this waste to settle into the substrate, it would
          > accuulate to
          > quickly.
          >
          > > And I'm not questioning the need for water movement, only
          > > filtration. Could you have a tank that had some perfect ratio of
          > plants
          > to
          > > fish to water that wouldn't require filtration, or is there
          > something that
          > > still needs to be removed?
          >
          > If the fish load were low enough, a filter would not be needed. In a
          > well
          > planted aquarium with a minimal fish load, any waste a filter may
          > collect
          > would be better suited to aid in the nutrients available to the
          > plants
          > roots.
          >
          > > Or is the problem that there typically isn't enough water to keep a
          > stable
          > > balance for the plant and animal densities that we choose to keep?
          >
          > This is very subjective since each aquarist keeps different fish and
          > total
          > stocking levels.
          >
          > > Or is it just to keep the water clear so we can enjoy watching our
          > plants
          > > and fish?
          >
          > A non-filtered lightly stocked (fish) aquarium will be as clear as
          > the same
          > aquarium with a filter providing all parameters are equal.
          >
          > > The books told me I needed mechanical, chemical and biological
          > filters.
          > You
          > > guy convinced me I didn't need (in fact, shouldn't have) a chemical
          > filter,
          > > so I ditched it. Then you convinced me I didn't need a bio filter
          > (so I
          > > lost it).
          >
          > I assume you mean a bio-wheel. You still have a bio filter since
          > nitrifying
          > bacteria inhabit every square inch of the aquarium. The reason we
          > suggested
          > removing the bio-wheel was not to eliminate the bio-filter but to
          > eliminate
          > the unecessary CO2 loss these create.
          >
          > >Now I'm thinking about upgrading to a canister mechanical filter,
          > > but am half seriously thinking that a small pond pump would be a
          > lot
          > > cheaper, and I could buy a diatom filter with my savings :o) I
          > anxiously
          > > await opinions.
          >
          > If you are at all unsure if your stocking level would allow a filter
          > to not
          > be used, opt for the safe route and get a canister. It is better to
          > be safe
          > than sorry. Most people who experiment in eliminating the need for a
          > filter,
          > have a filter at hand in case their suspicions do not pay off.
          >
          > Keep the Diatom options open since these are wonderful filters. You
          > will not
          > be sorry if you get one.
          >
          > > Hal Williams,
          > > San Clemente, CA
          >
          > Tom Bates - Senior LMD
          > Allentown, PA USA
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UniQuaria
          > http://dive.to/UniQuaria
          >
          >


          =====
          CheersAlfred in Sunny Singapore (actually it's raining cats and dogs at this time of the year!)www.geocities.com/alfredkwheng/index.html

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        • AuntieFran@aol.com
          IF I should win the Endler s, would they be appropriate tankmates for Silver Dollars?
          Message 4 of 17 , Oct 26, 2002
            IF I should win the Endler's, would they be appropriate tankmates for Silver Dollars?
          • Trevor Holyoak
            For what it s worth, I have some white clouds in with my endlers, and I m pretty sure I saw a white cloud eating one of the endlers fry one day. Most of them
            Message 5 of 17 , Oct 26, 2002
              For what it's worth, I have some white clouds in with my endlers, and I'm pretty sure I saw a white cloud eating one of the endlers fry one day. Most of them seem to have survived though - I now have several different ages of endlers in that tank.

              - Trevor

              Joseph Eisenhart wrote:
                  Thank you for your support Fran!!!  Small Silver Dollars should be fine, but large ones may eat the Endler's. I can't imagine getting any young in this situation either. A 10 or 20 gal tank to themselves would be ideal...... Thanks Again!!

                                 Joe -- ( LMD)                        
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/uniquaria
                        http://www.UniQuaria.com             
               For the best fish in the net....Do Drop In
                               o
                              o
                            < ' ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ><
                                  ^
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 12:32 PM
              Subject: [UniQuaria] What do you think?

              IF I should win the Endler's, would they be appropriate tankmates for Silver Dollars?

              Need help with your website? Go to the individuals we went to for www.UniQuaria.com, the expert team at High Aspirations, Inc. This highly qualified group can do anything and everything to make your website exceed your expectations. Please visit their website at www.highaspirationsinc.com.

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              Need help with your website? Go to the individuals we went to for www.UniQuaria.com, the expert team at High Aspirations, Inc. This highly qualified group can do anything and everything to make your website exceed your expectations. Please visit their website at www.highaspirationsinc.com.

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            • AuntieFran@aol.com
              In a message dated 10/26/02 1:12:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ... OK, OK, you and Michelle have talked me into moving the Tetras to the Silver Dollar tank and
              Message 6 of 17 , Oct 26, 2002
                In a message dated 10/26/02 1:12:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, trevor@... writes:

                Thank you for your support Fran!!!  Small Silver Dollars should be fine, but large ones may eat the Endler's. I can't imagine getting any young in this situation either. A 10 or 20 gal tank to themselves would be ideal...... Thanks Again!!


                OK, OK, you and Michelle have talked me into moving the Tetras to the Silver Dollar tank and putting the Endler's (hope, hope, hope) in with the Green Phantom Pleco and the Otos.  They can't have "private" quarters without my getting another tank.  I can just hear DH now!  "Not ANOTHER one!"  (But, please remember, he started this with the Christmas gift last year.)
              • AuntieFran@aol.com
                But no one will tell me -- what s the MAXIMUM number of Silver Dollars for the 35-gallon tank :(
                Message 7 of 17 , Oct 26, 2002
                  But no one will tell me -- what's the MAXIMUM number of Silver Dollars for the 35-gallon tank :(
                • Joseph Eisenhart
                  Thank you for your support Fran!!! Small Silver Dollars should be fine, but large ones may eat the Endler s. I can t imagine getting any young in this
                  Message 8 of 17 , Oct 26, 2002
                        Thank you for your support Fran!!!  Small Silver Dollars should be fine, but large ones may eat the Endler's. I can't imagine getting any young in this situation either. A 10 or 20 gal tank to themselves would be ideal...... Thanks Again!!

                                       Joe -- ( LMD)                        
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/uniquaria
                              http://www.UniQuaria.com             
                     For the best fish in the net....Do Drop In
                                     o
                                    o
                                  < ' ( ( ( ( ( ( (
                    ><
                                        ^
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 12:32 PM
                    Subject: [UniQuaria] What do you think?

                    IF I should win the Endler's, would they be appropriate tankmates for Silver Dollars?

                    Need help with your website? Go to the individuals we went to for www.UniQuaria.com, the expert team at High Aspirations, Inc. This highly qualified group can do anything and everything to make your website exceed your expectations. Please visit their website at www.highaspirationsinc.com.

                    Wish to Unsubscribe? I can't imagine why but if you do, send a message to:
                    UniQuaria-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com             


                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  • Joseph Eisenhart
                    Trevor, this is possibly the best of tankmate suggestions. As a rule neither species will clean up a batch of their own fry, and each are recommended in
                    Message 9 of 17 , Oct 26, 2002
                          Trevor, this is possibly the best of tankmate suggestions. As a rule neither species will clean up a batch of their own fry, and each are recommended in extended multigenerational communities. It is my feeling that, in an environment of sufficient food and cover, these two groups could peacefully coexist and readily procreate. What you saw was known as opportunistic cannibalism, possibly of either a deformed or dying young Endler. I raise mine in a 300 gallon stock trough, with 4 Starry Night Ancistrus, a large colony of Glass Shrimp, and 100's of MTS. Each species has reproduced numerous times and I have never seen a corpse.
                      Balance & Harmony, the aquariast's Nirvana..............
                                         Joe -- ( LMD)                        
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/uniquaria
                                http://www.UniQuaria.com             
                       For the best fish in the net....Do Drop In
                                       o
                                      o
                                    < ' ( ( ( ( ( ( (
                      ><
                                          ^
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 3:12 PM
                      Subject: Re: [UniQuaria] What do you think?

                      For what it's worth, I have some white clouds in with my endlers, and I'm pretty sure I saw a white cloud eating one of the endlers fry one day. Most of them seem to have survived though - I now have several different ages of endlers in that tank.

                      - Trevor

                      Joseph Eisenhart wrote:
                          Thank you for your support Fran!!!  Small Silver Dollars should be fine, but large ones may eat the Endler's. I can't imagine getting any young in this situation either. A 10 or 20 gal tank to themselves would be ideal...... Thanks Again!!

                                         Joe -- ( LMD)                        
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/uniquaria
                                http://www.UniQuaria.com             
                       For the best fish in the net....Do Drop In
                                       o
                                      o
                                    < ' ( ( ( ( ( ( ( ><
                                          ^
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 12:32 PM
                      Subject: [UniQuaria] What do you think?

                      IF I should win the Endler's, would they be appropriate tankmates for Silver Dollars?

                      Need help with your website? Go to the individuals we went to for www.UniQuaria.com, the expert team at High Aspirations, Inc. This highly qualified group can do anything and everything to make your website exceed your expectations. Please visit their website at www.highaspirationsinc.com.

                      Wish to Unsubscribe? I can't imagine why but if you do, send a message to:
                      UniQuaria-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com             


                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                      Need help with your website? Go to the individuals we went to for www.UniQuaria.com, the expert team at High Aspirations, Inc. This highly qualified group can do anything and everything to make your website exceed your expectations. Please visit their website at www.highaspirationsinc.com.

                      Wish to Unsubscribe? I can't imagine why but if you do, send a message to:
                      UniQuaria-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com             


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