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Uncleaned dealer code of ethics

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  • Glenn Simonelli
    The following message arose form a discussion about a questionable dealer of uncleaned ancient coins on a different uncleaned coins group. I m reposting it
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 4, 2007
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      The following message arose form a discussion about a questionable
      dealer of uncleaned ancient coins on a different uncleaned coins
      group. I'm reposting it hear to generate a wider discussion. I'd be
      interested in comments from both customers and dealers:

      Perhaps we should consider establishing a code of ethics that
      uncleaned dealers should ascribe to. This code might cover the way
      uncleaned coins are represented, the turnaround time that order are
      processed, and return policies.

      For example:

      Principal one: Photos of uncleaned ancient coins should be as fair and
      accurate as possible.
      The coins pictured should depict the actual batch of coins.
      Dealers should not use a generic photo to represent different batches
      of coins.
      The photo should depict a random assortment and placement of
      coins. Piles of coins should not be deliberately staged to include
      mostly atypical coins or so that all the largest and/or nicest coins
      are on the top of the pile with coins of more typical quality hidden
      underneath.

      Principal two: Orders should be processed quickly
      Order should be processed within 5 working days of confirmed
      receipt of payment. Checks are considered confirmed payment after they
      are cleared by the bank.
      Dealers should have the coins on hand before accepting orders
      unless they state otherwise in the offer. That is, if the dealer plans
      to order a batch of coins once they get a large enough number of
      orders, the dealer should state this in the offer. Likewise, if a
      dealer has not seen the actual coins and is having the orders shipped
      by a third party, this should also be stated in the offer.

      Principal three: Orders should come with a reasonable return policy.
      Dealers should accept returns of uncleaned coins with reasonable
      limitations. Examples of reasonable limitations include: the order
      must be returned in its entirety--customers may not pick out one or
      some coins and return the rest; and coins must be returned in the same
      condition in which they are received--dealers are not required to
      accept coins that have been partially or fully cleaned.
      Any other limitations must be reasonable, not be intended solely
      to discourage returns, and be stated clearly in the offer.
      All requests for refunds should be processed within 5 working
      days of the receipt of the returned goods.

      Dealers willing to abide by this code could include a seal of
      approval from, oh, I don't know, say, Glenn's Code of Uncleaned
      Ancient Coin Ethics in their promotions. This would let customers know
      that they can expect a certain level of integrity from a dealer.

      Anyone think this is worth pursuing? Any other ideas on the subject?

      Glenn Simonelli
      http://mypage.iu.edu/~gsimonel/roman1.htm
    • William Peters
      Hello Glenn, This suggestion (in its many forms) has be discussed before. Although all your points would be considered fair and reasonable, one of the problems
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 4, 2007
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        Hello Glenn,

        This suggestion (in its many forms) has be discussed before. Although all your points would be considered fair and reasonable, one of the problems that comes into play is when trying to enforce the code.

        How do you keep unauthorized people from using it or creating their own code?

        How do you mediate the often encountered, "he said", "she said" situations?

        How do you go about revoking someone's privilege of using the code?

        Are there fees involved to support an organzation to monitor and enforce the code?

        How does the word of the code get out to the average eBay coin buyer that stumbles upon the uncleaned coin trade?

        I for one feel your pain. I understand the frustration encountered while trying to be the best dealer you can be and see the other 'fly-by-night' sellers selling misrepresented and shody material. This was one of the reasons why I gave up selling uncleaned coins several years ago. I was honestly portraying the quality of coins at a reasonable price, when the new breed of sellers began using the "Gold Found" advertising schemes.

        Best,

        William Peters
        http://provincial-romans.com/provincial


        ----- Original Message ----
        From: Glenn Simonelli <glenn.simonelli@...>
        To: Uncleanedcoins@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2007 5:01:22 AM
        Subject: [Uncleanedcoins] Uncleaned dealer code of ethics

        The following message arose form a discussion about a questionable
        dealer of uncleaned ancient coins on a different uncleaned coins
        group. I'm reposting it hear to generate a wider discussion. I'd be
        interested in comments from both customers and dealers:

        Perhaps we should consider establishing a code of ethics that
        uncleaned dealers should ascribe to. This code might cover the way
        uncleaned coins are represented, the turnaround time that order are
        processed, and return policies.

        For example:

        Principal one: Photos of uncleaned ancient coins should be as fair and
        accurate as possible.
        The coins pictured should depict the actual batch of coins.
        Dealers should not use a generic photo to represent different batches
        of coins.
        The photo should depict a random assortment and placement of
        coins. Piles of coins should not be deliberately staged to include
        mostly atypical coins or so that all the largest and/or nicest coins
        are on the top of the pile with coins of more typical quality hidden
        underneath.

        Principal two: Orders should be processed quickly
        Order should be processed within 5 working days of confirmed
        receipt of payment. Checks are considered confirmed payment after they
        are cleared by the bank.
        Dealers should have the coins on hand before accepting orders
        unless they state otherwise in the offer. That is, if the dealer plans
        to order a batch of coins once they get a large enough number of
        orders, the dealer should state this in the offer. Likewise, if a
        dealer has not seen the actual coins and is having the orders shipped
        by a third party, this should also be stated in the offer.

        Principal three: Orders should come with a reasonable return policy.
        Dealers should accept returns of uncleaned coins with reasonable
        limitations. Examples of reasonable limitations include: the order
        must be returned in its entirety--customers may not pick out one or
        some coins and return the rest; and coins must be returned in the same
        condition in which they are received--dealers are not required to
        accept coins that have been partially or fully cleaned.
        Any other limitations must be reasonable, not be intended solely
        to discourage returns, and be stated clearly in the offer.
        All requests for refunds should be processed within 5 working
        days of the receipt of the returned goods.

        Dealers willing to abide by this code could include a seal of
        approval from, oh, I don't know, say, Glenn's Code of Uncleaned
        Ancient Coin Ethics in their promotions. This would let customers know
        that they can expect a certain level of integrity from a dealer.

        Anyone think this is worth pursuing? Any other ideas on the subject?

        Glenn Simonelli
        http://mypage. iu.edu/~gsimonel /roman1.htm






        ____________________________________________________________________________________
        We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
        (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
        http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Joseph Blazick
        I used to sell quite a lot of uncleaned coins as most everyone knows and I always gave money back on returns as long as they had not been cleaned.I still go
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 4, 2007
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          I used to sell quite a lot of uncleaned coins as most everyone knows and I always gave money back on returns as long as they had not been cleaned.I still go idots that tried.I even had a "God Bless " person cry for a lower price and got it and the turned around after 1 hour and had ZPPED them to the point of no patina and then had the gall to try to get his money back.He even threatened to tell the list if I did not refund his money.I went to the list myself and then he go mad because I did.
          With a written code that can be displayed with all auctions ,these types would most likely not bid and the really good buyers would.
          Just My thought which will get me flack but it is my feelings

          William Peters <provincial_romans@...> wrote:
          Hello Glenn,

          This suggestion (in its many forms) has be discussed before. Although all your points would be considered fair and reasonable, one of the problems that comes into play is when trying to enforce the code.

          How do you keep unauthorized people from using it or creating their own code?

          How do you mediate the often encountered, "he said", "she said" situations?

          How do you go about revoking someone's privilege of using the code?

          Are there fees involved to support an organzation to monitor and enforce the code?

          How does the word of the code get out to the average eBay coin buyer that stumbles upon the uncleaned coin trade?

          I for one feel your pain. I understand the frustration encountered while trying to be the best dealer you can be and see the other 'fly-by-night' sellers selling misrepresented and shody material. This was one of the reasons why I gave up selling uncleaned coins several years ago. I was honestly portraying the quality of coins at a reasonable price, when the new breed of sellers began using the "Gold Found" advertising schemes.

          Best,

          William Peters
          http://provincial-romans.com/provincial

          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Glenn Simonelli <glenn.simonelli@...>
          To: Uncleanedcoins@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2007 5:01:22 AM
          Subject: [Uncleanedcoins] Uncleaned dealer code of ethics

          The following message arose form a discussion about a questionable
          dealer of uncleaned ancient coins on a different uncleaned coins
          group. I'm reposting it hear to generate a wider discussion. I'd be
          interested in comments from both customers and dealers:

          Perhaps we should consider establishing a code of ethics that
          uncleaned dealers should ascribe to. This code might cover the way
          uncleaned coins are represented, the turnaround time that order are
          processed, and return policies.

          For example:

          Principal one: Photos of uncleaned ancient coins should be as fair and
          accurate as possible.
          The coins pictured should depict the actual batch of coins.
          Dealers should not use a generic photo to represent different batches
          of coins.
          The photo should depict a random assortment and placement of
          coins. Piles of coins should not be deliberately staged to include
          mostly atypical coins or so that all the largest and/or nicest coins
          are on the top of the pile with coins of more typical quality hidden
          underneath.

          Principal two: Orders should be processed quickly
          Order should be processed within 5 working days of confirmed
          receipt of payment. Checks are considered confirmed payment after they
          are cleared by the bank.
          Dealers should have the coins on hand before accepting orders
          unless they state otherwise in the offer. That is, if the dealer plans
          to order a batch of coins once they get a large enough number of
          orders, the dealer should state this in the offer. Likewise, if a
          dealer has not seen the actual coins and is having the orders shipped
          by a third party, this should also be stated in the offer.

          Principal three: Orders should come with a reasonable return policy.
          Dealers should accept returns of uncleaned coins with reasonable
          limitations. Examples of reasonable limitations include: the order
          must be returned in its entirety--customers may not pick out one or
          some coins and return the rest; and coins must be returned in the same
          condition in which they are received--dealers are not required to
          accept coins that have been partially or fully cleaned.
          Any other limitations must be reasonable, not be intended solely
          to discourage returns, and be stated clearly in the offer.
          All requests for refunds should be processed within 5 working
          days of the receipt of the returned goods.

          Dealers willing to abide by this code could include a seal of
          approval from, oh, I don't know, say, Glenn's Code of Uncleaned
          Ancient Coin Ethics in their promotions. This would let customers know
          that they can expect a certain level of integrity from a dealer.

          Anyone think this is worth pursuing? Any other ideas on the subject?

          Glenn Simonelli
          http://mypage. iu.edu/~gsimonel /roman1.htm

          __________________________________________________________
          We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
          (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
          http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






          ---------------------------------
          The fish are biting.
          Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Joseph Blazick
          I used to sell quite a lot of uncleaned coins as most everyone knows and I always gave money back on returns as long as they had not been cleaned.I still go
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 4, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            I used to sell quite a lot of uncleaned coins as most everyone knows and I always gave money back on returns as long as they had not been cleaned.I still go idots that tried.I even had a "God Bless " person cry for a lower price and got it and the turned around after 1 hour and had ZPPED them to the point of no patina and then had the gall to try to get his money back.He even threatened to tell the list if I did not refund his money.I went to the list myself and then he go mad because I did.
            With a written code that can be displayed with all auctions ,these types would most likely not bid and the really good buyers would.
            Just My thought which will get me flack but it is my feelings

            William Peters <provincial_romans@...> wrote:
            Hello Glenn,

            This suggestion (in its many forms) has be discussed before. Although all your points would be considered fair and reasonable, one of the problems that comes into play is when trying to enforce the code.

            How do you keep unauthorized people from using it or creating their own code?

            How do you mediate the often encountered, "he said", "she said" situations?

            How do you go about revoking someone's privilege of using the code?

            Are there fees involved to support an organzation to monitor and enforce the code?

            How does the word of the code get out to the average eBay coin buyer that stumbles upon the uncleaned coin trade?

            I for one feel your pain. I understand the frustration encountered while trying to be the best dealer you can be and see the other 'fly-by-night' sellers selling misrepresented and shody material. This was one of the reasons why I gave up selling uncleaned coins several years ago. I was honestly portraying the quality of coins at a reasonable price, when the new breed of sellers began using the "Gold Found" advertising schemes.

            Best,

            William Peters
            http://provincial-romans.com/provincial

            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Glenn Simonelli <glenn.simonelli@...>
            To: Uncleanedcoins@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2007 5:01:22 AM
            Subject: [Uncleanedcoins] Uncleaned dealer code of ethics

            The following message arose form a discussion about a questionable
            dealer of uncleaned ancient coins on a different uncleaned coins
            group. I'm reposting it hear to generate a wider discussion. I'd be
            interested in comments from both customers and dealers:

            Perhaps we should consider establishing a code of ethics that
            uncleaned dealers should ascribe to. This code might cover the way
            uncleaned coins are represented, the turnaround time that order are
            processed, and return policies.

            For example:

            Principal one: Photos of uncleaned ancient coins should be as fair and
            accurate as possible.
            The coins pictured should depict the actual batch of coins.
            Dealers should not use a generic photo to represent different batches
            of coins.
            The photo should depict a random assortment and placement of
            coins. Piles of coins should not be deliberately staged to include
            mostly atypical coins or so that all the largest and/or nicest coins
            are on the top of the pile with coins of more typical quality hidden
            underneath.

            Principal two: Orders should be processed quickly
            Order should be processed within 5 working days of confirmed
            receipt of payment. Checks are considered confirmed payment after they
            are cleared by the bank.
            Dealers should have the coins on hand before accepting orders
            unless they state otherwise in the offer. That is, if the dealer plans
            to order a batch of coins once they get a large enough number of
            orders, the dealer should state this in the offer. Likewise, if a
            dealer has not seen the actual coins and is having the orders shipped
            by a third party, this should also be stated in the offer.

            Principal three: Orders should come with a reasonable return policy.
            Dealers should accept returns of uncleaned coins with reasonable
            limitations. Examples of reasonable limitations include: the order
            must be returned in its entirety--customers may not pick out one or
            some coins and return the rest; and coins must be returned in the same
            condition in which they are received--dealers are not required to
            accept coins that have been partially or fully cleaned.
            Any other limitations must be reasonable, not be intended solely
            to discourage returns, and be stated clearly in the offer.
            All requests for refunds should be processed within 5 working
            days of the receipt of the returned goods.

            Dealers willing to abide by this code could include a seal of
            approval from, oh, I don't know, say, Glenn's Code of Uncleaned
            Ancient Coin Ethics in their promotions. This would let customers know
            that they can expect a certain level of integrity from a dealer.

            Anyone think this is worth pursuing? Any other ideas on the subject?

            Glenn Simonelli
            http://mypage. iu.edu/~gsimonel /roman1.htm

            __________________________________________________________
            We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
            (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
            http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






            ---------------------------------
            Don't pick lemons.
            See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • William Peters
            Hey Joe, Amazing to think how you were one of the first dealers I ever purchased uncleaned coins from back in 1999. I guess I owe my addiction to you!! ;)
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 5, 2007
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              Hey Joe,

              Amazing to think how you were one of the first dealers I ever purchased uncleaned coins from back in 1999. I guess I owe my addiction to you!! ;)

              Best,

              William Peters


              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Joseph Blazick <j_blazick@...>
              To: William Peters <provincial_romans@...>; Glenn Simonelli <glenn.simonelli@...>; Uncleanedcoins@yahoogroups.com
              Cc: UncleanedAncientCoins@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2007 9:11:27 AM
              Subject: Re: [Uncleanedcoins] Uncleaned dealer code of ethics

              I used to sell quite a lot of uncleaned coins as most everyone knows and I always gave money back on returns as long as they had not been cleaned.I still go idots that tried.I even had a "God Bless " person cry for a lower price and got it and the turned around after 1 hour and had ZPPED them to the point of no patina and then had the gall to try to get his money back.He even threatened to tell the list if I did not refund his money.I went to the list myself and then he go mad because I did.
              With a written code that can be displayed with all auctions ,these types would most likely not bid and the really good buyers would.
              Just My thought which will get me flack but it is my feelings

              William Peters <provincial_romans@ yahoo.com> wrote:
              Hello Glenn,

              This suggestion (in its many forms) has be discussed before. Although all your points would be considered fair and reasonable, one of the problems that comes into play is when trying to enforce the code.

              How do you keep unauthorized people from using it or creating their own code?

              How do you mediate the often encountered, "he said", "she said" situations?

              How do you go about revoking someone's privilege of using the code?

              Are there fees involved to support an organzation to monitor and enforce the code?

              How does the word of the code get out to the average eBay coin buyer that stumbles upon the uncleaned coin trade?

              I for one feel your pain. I understand the frustration encountered while trying to be the best dealer you can be and see the other 'fly-by-night' sellers selling misrepresented and shody material. This was one of the reasons why I gave up selling uncleaned coins several years ago. I was honestly portraying the quality of coins at a reasonable price, when the new breed of sellers began using the "Gold Found" advertising schemes.

              Best,

              William Peters
              http://provincial- romans.com/ provincial

              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Glenn Simonelli <glenn.simonelli@ gmail.com>
              To: Uncleanedcoins@ yahoogroups. com
              Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2007 5:01:22 AM
              Subject: [Uncleanedcoins] Uncleaned dealer code of ethics

              The following message arose form a discussion about a questionable
              dealer of uncleaned ancient coins on a different uncleaned coins
              group. I'm reposting it hear to generate a wider discussion. I'd be
              interested in comments from both customers and dealers:

              Perhaps we should consider establishing a code of ethics that
              uncleaned dealers should ascribe to. This code might cover the way
              uncleaned coins are represented, the turnaround time that order are
              processed, and return policies.

              For example:

              Principal one: Photos of uncleaned ancient coins should be as fair and
              accurate as possible.
              The coins pictured should depict the actual batch of coins.
              Dealers should not use a generic photo to represent different batches
              of coins.
              The photo should depict a random assortment and placement of
              coins. Piles of coins should not be deliberately staged to include
              mostly atypical coins or so that all the largest and/or nicest coins
              are on the top of the pile with coins of more typical quality hidden
              underneath.

              Principal two: Orders should be processed quickly
              Order should be processed within 5 working days of confirmed
              receipt of payment. Checks are considered confirmed payment after they
              are cleared by the bank.
              Dealers should have the coins on hand before accepting orders
              unless they state otherwise in the offer. That is, if the dealer plans
              to order a batch of coins once they get a large enough number of
              orders, the dealer should state this in the offer. Likewise, if a
              dealer has not seen the actual coins and is having the orders shipped
              by a third party, this should also be stated in the offer.

              Principal three: Orders should come with a reasonable return policy.
              Dealers should accept returns of uncleaned coins with reasonable
              limitations. Examples of reasonable limitations include: the order
              must be returned in its entirety--customers may not pick out one or
              some coins and return the rest; and coins must be returned in the same
              condition in which they are received--dealers are not required to
              accept coins that have been partially or fully cleaned.
              Any other limitations must be reasonable, not be intended solely
              to discourage returns, and be stated clearly in the offer.
              All requests for refunds should be processed within 5 working
              days of the receipt of the returned goods.

              Dealers willing to abide by this code could include a seal of
              approval from, oh, I don't know, say, Glenn's Code of Uncleaned
              Ancient Coin Ethics in their promotions. This would let customers know
              that they can expect a certain level of integrity from a dealer.

              Anyone think this is worth pursuing? Any other ideas on the subject?

              Glenn Simonelli
              http://mypage. iu.edu/~gsimonel /roman1.htm

              ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
              We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
              (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
              http://tv.yahoo. com/collections/ 265

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              ------------ --------- --------- ---
              The fish are biting.
              Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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            • Jb
              Well as far as enforcement ,that would be monitored by all subscribing members of a list that wouild be created and all dealers who subscribe would be required
              Message 6 of 6 , Apr 7, 2007
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                Well as far as enforcement ,that would be monitored by all subscribing members of a list that wouild be created and all dealers who subscribe would be required to join.A seal would or could be created to signify a member and complaints could be sent to a members email and the forwarded to the list for dicussion and resolution.The code can and should be be more than just uncleaned coin dealers but should really encompass any dealer wishing approvcal.

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