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Frances Baines Article in Reptiles Magazine Online !!!

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  • tractorboydarren
    For those that can not access the Reptiles Magazine and Frances Baines excellent article on lighting, it has now been published online:
    Message 1 of 24 , Jun 12 2:34 AM
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      For those that can not access the Reptiles Magazine and Frances Baines excellent article on lighting, it has now been published online:

      http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptile-health/reptile-natural-artificial-light.aspx

      Darren Dunnage
    • bobmac@reptileuv.com
      Thanks Darren, I would suggest that anyone with a site, link this article!! BM RUV From: UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com
      Message 2 of 24 , Jun 12 6:50 AM
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        Thanks Darren, I would suggest that anyone with a site, link this article!!

        BM
        RUV

        From: UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tractorboydarren
        Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 5:35 AM
        To: UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [UVB_Meter_Owners] Frances Baines Article in Reptiles Magazine
        Online !!!





        For those that can not access the Reptiles Magazine and Frances Baines
        excellent article on lighting, it has now been published online:

        http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptile-health/reptile-natural-artificial-ligh
        t.aspx

        Darren Dunnage



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • nino maida
        I do not link to the article and can not find it on that site. -Nino ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 24 , Jun 12 11:59 AM
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          I do not link to the article and can not find it on that site.
          -Nino

          On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 6:50 AM, <bobmac@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > Thanks Darren, I would suggest that anyone with a site, link this article!!
          >
          > BM
          > RUV
          >
          > From: UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>
          > [mailto:UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>]
          > On Behalf Of tractorboydarren
          > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 5:35 AM
          > To: UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com <UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>
          > Subject: [UVB_Meter_Owners] Frances Baines Article in Reptiles Magazine
          > Online !!!
          >
          >
          >
          > For those that can not access the Reptiles Magazine and Frances Baines
          > excellent article on lighting, it has now been published online:
          >
          >
          > http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptile-health/reptile-natural-artificial-ligh
          > t.aspx
          >
          > Darren Dunnage
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • tractorboydarren
          Heres the link again http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptile-health/reptile-natural-artificial-light.aspx or its easy to find on the front page of my website, in
          Message 4 of 24 , Jun 13 11:38 AM
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            Heres the link again

            http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptile-health/reptile-natural-artificial-light.aspx

            or its easy to find on the front page of my website, in the left colum bottom link !

            Darren


            --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com, nino maida <ninoupte7@...> wrote:
            >
            > I do not link to the article and can not find it on that site.
            > -Nino
            >
            > On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 6:50 AM, <bobmac@...> wrote:
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > Thanks Darren, I would suggest that anyone with a site, link this article!!
            > >
            > > BM
            > > RUV
            > >
            > > From: UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>
            > > [mailto:UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>]
            > > On Behalf Of tractorboydarren
            > > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 5:35 AM
            > > To: UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com <UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>
            > > Subject: [UVB_Meter_Owners] Frances Baines Article in Reptiles Magazine
            > > Online !!!
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > For those that can not access the Reptiles Magazine and Frances Baines
            > > excellent article on lighting, it has now been published online:
            > >
            > >
            > > http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptile-health/reptile-natural-artificial-ligh
            > > t.aspx
            > >
            > > Darren Dunnage
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • ninoupte7
            Thank you so much, Darren, for Frances article. -Nino
            Message 5 of 24 , Jun 13 11:39 PM
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              Thank you so much, Darren, for Frances' article.
              -Nino

              --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com, "tractorboydarren" <darrendunnage@...> wrote:
              >
              > Heres the link again
              >
              > http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptile-health/reptile-natural-artificial-light.aspx
              >
              > or its easy to find on the front page of my website, in the left colum bottom link !
              >
              > Darren
              >
              >
              > --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com, nino maida <ninoupte7@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I do not link to the article and can not find it on that site.
              > > -Nino
              > >
              > > On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 6:50 AM, <bobmac@> wrote:
              > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Thanks Darren, I would suggest that anyone with a site, link this article!!
              > > >
              > > > BM
              > > > RUV
              > > >
              > > > From: UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>
              > > > [mailto:UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>]
              > > > On Behalf Of tractorboydarren
              > > > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 5:35 AM
              > > > To: UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com <UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>
              > > > Subject: [UVB_Meter_Owners] Frances Baines Article in Reptiles Magazine
              > > > Online !!!
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > For those that can not access the Reptiles Magazine and Frances Baines
              > > > excellent article on lighting, it has now been published online:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptile-health/reptile-natural-artificial-ligh
              > > > t.aspx
              > > >
              > > > Darren Dunnage
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
            • drache613
              Hello All, THANK YOU for providing that link! I must have missed it. GREAT article, Frances, thanks. :-)) Tracie
              Message 6 of 24 , Jul 26, 2009
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                Hello All,

                THANK YOU for providing that link! I must have missed it. GREAT article, Frances, thanks. :-))


                Tracie

                --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com, "ninoupte7" <ninoupte7@...> wrote:
                >
                > Thank you so much, Darren, for Frances' article.
                > -Nino
                >
                > --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com, "tractorboydarren" <darrendunnage@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Heres the link again
                > >
                > > http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptile-health/reptile-natural-artificial-light.aspx
                > >
                > > or its easy to find on the front page of my website, in the left colum bottom link !
                > >
                > > Darren
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com, nino maida <ninoupte7@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > I do not link to the article and can not find it on that site.
                > > > -Nino
                > > >
                > > > On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 6:50 AM, <bobmac@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Thanks Darren, I would suggest that anyone with a site, link this article!!
                > > > >
                > > > > BM
                > > > > RUV
                > > > >
                > > > > From: UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>
                > > > > [mailto:UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>]
                > > > > On Behalf Of tractorboydarren
                > > > > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 5:35 AM
                > > > > To: UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com <UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>
                > > > > Subject: [UVB_Meter_Owners] Frances Baines Article in Reptiles Magazine
                > > > > Online !!!
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > For those that can not access the Reptiles Magazine and Frances Baines
                > > > > excellent article on lighting, it has now been published online:
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptile-health/reptile-natural-artificial-ligh
                > > > > t.aspx
                > > > >
                > > > > Darren Dunnage
                > > > >
                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • nino maida
                Has anyone done any experiments on the possibility that lizards might have their sleep habits detrimentally altered by the low light (red) produced by coil
                Message 7 of 24 , Jul 27, 2009
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                  Has anyone done any experiments on the possibility that lizards might have
                  their sleep habits detrimentally altered by the low light (red) produced by
                  coil heaters (such as the ones I use from MegaRay)?
                  -Nino

                  On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 10:52 AM, drache613 <JKretzs@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > Hello All,
                  >
                  > THANK YOU for providing that link! I must have missed it. GREAT article,
                  > Frances, thanks. :-))
                  >
                  > Tracie
                  >
                  > --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>,
                  > "ninoupte7" <ninoupte7@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Thank you so much, Darren, for Frances' article.
                  > > -Nino
                  > >
                  > > --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>,
                  > "tractorboydarren" <darrendunnage@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Heres the link again
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptile-health/reptile-natural-artificial-light.aspx
                  > > >
                  > > > or its easy to find on the front page of my website, in the left colum
                  > bottom link !
                  > > >
                  > > > Darren
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>,
                  > nino maida <ninoupte7@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I do not link to the article and can not find it on that site.
                  > > > > -Nino
                  > > > >
                  > > > > On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 6:50 AM, <bobmac@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Thanks Darren, I would suggest that anyone with a site, link this
                  > article!!
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > BM
                  > > > > > RUV
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > From: UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > <UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > > > > [mailto:UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > <UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>]
                  > > > > > On Behalf Of tractorboydarren
                  > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 5:35 AM
                  > > > > > To: UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com><UVB_Meter_Owners%
                  > 40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > > > > Subject: [UVB_Meter_Owners] Frances Baines Article in Reptiles
                  > Magazine
                  > > > > > Online !!!
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > For those that can not access the Reptiles Magazine and Frances
                  > Baines
                  > > > > > excellent article on lighting, it has now been published online:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptile-health/reptile-natural-artificial-ligh
                  > > > > > t.aspx
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Darren Dunnage
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • sean46877
                  You mean the IR non visable light to us humans right? interesting.
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jul 27, 2009
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                    You mean the IR non visable light to us humans right? interesting.

                    --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com, nino maida <ninoupte7@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Has anyone done any experiments on the possibility that lizards might have
                    > their sleep habits detrimentally altered by the low light (red) produced by
                    > coil heaters (such as the ones I use from MegaRay)?
                    > -Nino
                    >
                    > On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 10:52 AM, drache613 <JKretzs@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Hello All,
                    > >
                    > > THANK YOU for providing that link! I must have missed it. GREAT article,
                    > > Frances, thanks. :-))
                    > >
                    > > Tracie
                    > >
                    > > --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>,
                    > > "ninoupte7" <ninoupte7@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Thank you so much, Darren, for Frances' article.
                    > > > -Nino
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>,
                    > > "tractorboydarren" <darrendunnage@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Heres the link again
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptile-health/reptile-natural-artificial-light.aspx
                    > > > >
                    > > > > or its easy to find on the front page of my website, in the left colum
                    > > bottom link !
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Darren
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>,
                    > > nino maida <ninoupte7@> wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I do not link to the article and can not find it on that site.
                    > > > > > -Nino
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 6:50 AM, <bobmac@> wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Thanks Darren, I would suggest that anyone with a site, link this
                    > > article!!
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > BM
                    > > > > > > RUV
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > From: UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > > <UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > > > > > > [mailto:UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > > <UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>]
                    > > > > > > On Behalf Of tractorboydarren
                    > > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 5:35 AM
                    > > > > > > To: UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com><UVB_Meter_Owners%
                    > > 40yahoogroups.com>
                    > > > > > > Subject: [UVB_Meter_Owners] Frances Baines Article in Reptiles
                    > > Magazine
                    > > > > > > Online !!!
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > For those that can not access the Reptiles Magazine and Frances
                    > > Baines
                    > > > > > > excellent article on lighting, it has now been published online:
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptile-health/reptile-natural-artificial-ligh
                    > > > > > > t.aspx
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Darren Dunnage
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • nino maida
                    Coil heaters produce (visible to us) a low level of red light; and so I assume that it is visible to the lizards. On the other hand, as I think about it, the
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jul 28, 2009
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                      Coil heaters produce (visible to us) a low level of red light; and so
                      I assume that it is visible to the lizards.
                      On the other hand, as I think about it, the moon produces much more
                      light; so forget about this question.
                      -Nino

                      On 7/27/09, sean46877 <sean46877@...> wrote:
                      > You mean the IR non visable light to us humans right? interesting.
                      >
                      > --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com, nino maida <ninoupte7@...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >> Has anyone done any experiments on the possibility that lizards might have
                      >> their sleep habits detrimentally altered by the low light (red) produced
                      >> by
                      >> coil heaters (such as the ones I use from MegaRay)?
                      >> -Nino
                      >>
                      >> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 10:52 AM, drache613 <JKretzs@...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > Hello All,
                      >> >
                      >> > THANK YOU for providing that link! I must have missed it. GREAT article,
                      >> > Frances, thanks. :-))
                      >> >
                      >> > Tracie
                      >> >
                      >> > --- In
                      >> > UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>,
                      >> > "ninoupte7" <ninoupte7@> wrote:
                      >> > >
                      >> > > Thank you so much, Darren, for Frances' article.
                      >> > > -Nino
                      >> > >
                      >> > > --- In
                      >> > > UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>,
                      >> > "tractorboydarren" <darrendunnage@> wrote:
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > Heres the link again
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > >
                      >> > http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptile-health/reptile-natural-artificial-light.aspx
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > or its easy to find on the front page of my website, in the left
                      >> > > > colum
                      >> > bottom link !
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > Darren
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > >
                      >> > > > --- In
                      >> > > > UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>,
                      >> > nino maida <ninoupte7@> wrote:
                      >> > > > >
                      >> > > > > I do not link to the article and can not find it on that site.
                      >> > > > > -Nino
                      >> > > > >
                      >> > > > > On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 6:50 AM, <bobmac@> wrote:
                      >> > > > >
                      >> > > > > >
                      >> > > > > >
                      >> > > > > > Thanks Darren, I would suggest that anyone with a site, link
                      >> > > > > > this
                      >> > article!!
                      >> > > > > >
                      >> > > > > > BM
                      >> > > > > > RUV
                      >> > > > > >
                      >> > > > > > From:
                      >> > > > > > UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>
                      >> > <UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>
                      >> > > > > > [mailto:UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>
                      >> > <UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>]
                      >> > > > > > On Behalf Of tractorboydarren
                      >> > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 5:35 AM
                      >> > > > > > To:
                      >> > > > > > UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com><UVB_Meter_Owners%
                      >> > 40yahoogroups.com>
                      >> > > > > > Subject: [UVB_Meter_Owners] Frances Baines Article in Reptiles
                      >> > Magazine
                      >> > > > > > Online !!!
                      >> > > > > >
                      >> > > > > >
                      >> > > > > >
                      >> > > > > > For those that can not access the Reptiles Magazine and Frances
                      >> > Baines
                      >> > > > > > excellent article on lighting, it has now been published online:
                      >> > > > > >
                      >> > > > > >
                      >> > > > > >
                      >> > http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptile-health/reptile-natural-artificial-ligh
                      >> > > > > > t.aspx
                      >> > > > > >
                      >> > > > > > Darren Dunnage
                      >> > > > > >
                      >> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >> > > > > >
                      >> > > > > >
                      >> > > > > >
                      >> > > > >
                      >> > > > >
                      >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >> > > > >
                      >> > > >
                      >> > >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • sean46877
                      It has been a while since we used the heat projectors, But I think I understand what you are saying that it glows red like a stove element just never noticed
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jul 28, 2009
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                        It has been a while since we used the heat projectors, But I think I understand what you are saying that it glows red like a stove element just never noticed it probably (CHE's at the moment). I wonder now if maybe something like the moon light would be good for some herps?

                        Exxo terra makes a glow in the dark fixture
                        http://www.thefind.com/pets/browse-exo-terra-reptile-lighting

                        probably little heat from this:

                        http://store.petside.com/product/light-fixtures/7241/coralife-aqualight-lunar-moon-glow-led.html



                        --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com, nino maida <ninoupte7@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Coil heaters produce (visible to us) a low level of red light; and so
                        > I assume that it is visible to the lizards.
                        > On the other hand, as I think about it, the moon produces much more
                        > light; so forget about this question.
                        > -Nino
                        >
                        > On 7/27/09, sean46877 <sean46877@...> wrote:
                        > > You mean the IR non visable light to us humans right? interesting.
                        > >
                        > > --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com, nino maida <ninoupte7@> wrote:
                        > >>
                        > >> Has anyone done any experiments on the possibility that lizards might have
                        > >> their sleep habits detrimentally altered by the low light (red) produced
                        > >> by
                        > >> coil heaters (such as the ones I use from MegaRay)?
                      • nino maida
                        Do day time lizards hide during the night? If so, they might not even see the moon. -Nino
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jul 29, 2009
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                          Do day time lizards hide during the night? If so, they might not even
                          see the moon.
                          -Nino

                          On 7/28/09, sean46877 <sean46877@...> wrote:
                          > It has been a while since we used the heat projectors, But I think I
                          > understand what you are saying that it glows red like a stove element just
                          > never noticed it probably (CHE's at the moment). I wonder now if maybe
                          > something like the moon light would be good for some herps?
                          >
                          > Exxo terra makes a glow in the dark fixture
                          > http://www.thefind.com/pets/browse-exo-terra-reptile-lighting
                          >
                          > probably little heat from this:
                          >
                          > http://store.petside.com/product/light-fixtures/7241/coralife-aqualight-lunar-moon-glow-led.html
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com, nino maida <ninoupte7@...> wrote:
                          >>
                          >> Coil heaters produce (visible to us) a low level of red light; and so
                          >> I assume that it is visible to the lizards.
                          >> On the other hand, as I think about it, the moon produces much more
                          >> light; so forget about this question.
                          >> -Nino
                          >>
                          >> On 7/27/09, sean46877 <sean46877@...> wrote:
                          >> > You mean the IR non visable light to us humans right? interesting.
                          >> >
                          >> > --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com, nino maida <ninoupte7@> wrote:
                          >> >>
                          >> >> Has anyone done any experiments on the possibility that lizards might
                          >> >> have
                          >> >> their sleep habits detrimentally altered by the low light (red)
                          >> >> produced
                          >> >> by
                          >> >> coil heaters (such as the ones I use from MegaRay)?
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • lilacdawndragon
                          Hi everyone. Moonlight s a very interesting topic. A few months ago someone asked me why I thought night lights - either red heat lamps or dark blue
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jul 30, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi everyone.

                            Moonlight's a very interesting topic.
                            A few months ago someone asked me why I thought "night lights" - either red heat lamps or dark blue "moonglow" type lamps - were not ideal for reptiles, so I did some research.

                            There are several studies on the effects of moonlight on reptile activity. This is a good one:
                            The Effect of Moonlight on Activity Patterns of Adult and Juvenile Prairie Rattlesnakes (Crotalus viridis viridis)
                            http://www.jstor.org/pss/1565509
                            Moonlight apparently has a profound monthly effect on many creatures, especially nocturnal and crepuscular ones. Of course some months, it's cloudy so the night remains pitch black. But moonlight - although it seems bright when your eyes get accustomed to it - is actually really, really dim. The whole key point is - as you can see in the article - even the best moonlight from a full moon in a clear sky only provides a maximum of about 2 lux! And yet this tiny amount of light, when present, significantly depresses the activity levels of these snakes.

                            I got readings of 1 lux from a full moon late one night last winter.

                            But lots of people buy these Moon Glow lamps or use red lamps so they can observe their reptiles walking around at night. It seemed to me that humans can't see colour in dim light, eg. moonlight, so the fact that these lamps light up the tanks in red or blue suggested they might be a lot brighter than moonlight. I set up samples of reptile "night lights" and took lux readings at different distances. I was astonished at how bright these are. Here are a couple of the results:
                            ExoTerra 50W Moonlight Night Glo Neodymium Moonlight Lamp
                            at 6ins: 222 lux.
                            At 12ins: 89 lux
                            At 18ins: 52 lux.
                            ZooMed 60W Nocturnal Infrared Heat Lamp
                            at 6ins: 4,220 lux.
                            At 12ins: 1,270 lux
                            At 18ins: 598 lux.

                            Even the dark purple-blue Moonlight Lamp is nearly 45 times brighter than full moonlight, if it is 12ins above the reptile. (I assume there's nothing wrong with my lux meter....)

                            And 598 lux from the Nocturnal Infrared Heat Lamp is actually brighter than some of our reptile UVB fluorescent lamps at 12 ins.
                            Makes you think, doesn't it?

                            But I tried out the ExoTerra glow-in-the-dark Glow Light Clamp Lamp, too. I think it's just a gimmick. Remember when you were a kid and you bought some luminous paint and painted a moon on your bedroom wall? And after the light was turned off, you could see it for about ten minutes before it faded from view?
                            The Glow Light Clamp Lamp glows a weird bright green colour for about ten minutes after you turn off the basking lamp inside it.

                            Frances



                            --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com, nino maida <ninoupte7@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Do day time lizards hide during the night? If so, they might not even
                            > see the moon.
                            > -Nino
                            >
                            > On 7/28/09, sean46877 <sean46877@...> wrote:
                            > > It has been a while since we used the heat projectors, But I think I
                            > > understand what you are saying that it glows red like a stove element just
                            > > never noticed it probably (CHE's at the moment). I wonder now if maybe
                            > > something like the moon light would be good for some herps?
                            > >
                            > > Exxo terra makes a glow in the dark fixture
                            > > http://www.thefind.com/pets/browse-exo-terra-reptile-lighting
                            > >
                            > > probably little heat from this:
                            > >
                            > > http://store.petside.com/product/light-fixtures/7241/coralife-aqualight-lunar-moon-glow-led.html
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com, nino maida <ninoupte7@> wrote:
                            > >>
                            > >> Coil heaters produce (visible to us) a low level of red light; and so
                            > >> I assume that it is visible to the lizards.
                            > >> On the other hand, as I think about it, the moon produces much more
                            > >> light; so forget about this question.
                            > >> -Nino
                            > >>
                            > >> On 7/27/09, sean46877 <sean46877@> wrote:
                            > >> > You mean the IR non visable light to us humans right? interesting.
                            > >> >
                            > >> > --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com, nino maida <ninoupte7@> wrote:
                            > >> >>
                            > >> >> Has anyone done any experiments on the possibility that lizards might
                            > >> >> have
                            > >> >> their sleep habits detrimentally altered by the low light (red)
                            > >> >> produced
                            > >> >> by
                            > >> >> coil heaters (such as the ones I use from MegaRay)?
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • kuhlinayn@comcast.net
                            Hi there.  I am a longterm member of the Bearded Dragon List Pogona and the use of nightlights comes up from time to time.  Mind if I cross post your test
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jul 30, 2009
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                              Hi there.  I am a longterm member of the Bearded Dragon List Pogona and the use of nightlights comes up from time to time.  Mind if I cross post your test results?



                              Thanks!



                              Todd


                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "lilacdawndragon" <lilacdragon@...>
                              To: "UVB Meter Owners" <UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 4:29:14 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
                              Subject: [UVB_Meter_Owners] Re: moon glow

                               




                              Hi everyone.

                              Moonlight's a very interesting topic.
                              A few months ago someone asked me why I thought "night lights" - either red heat lamps or dark blue "moonglow" type lamps - were not ideal for reptiles, so I did some research.

                              There are several studies on the effects of moonlight on reptile activity. This is a good one:
                              The Effect of Moonlight on Activity Patterns of Adult and Juvenile Prairie Rattlesnakes (Crotalus viridis viridis)
                              http://www.jstor.org/pss/1565509
                              Moonlight apparently has a profound monthly effect on many creatures, especially nocturnal and crepuscular ones. Of course some months, it's cloudy so the night remains pitch black. But moonlight - although it seems bright when your eyes get accustomed to it - is actually really, really dim. The whole key point is - as you can see in the article - even the best moonlight from a full moon in a clear sky only provides a maximum of about 2 lux! And yet this tiny amount of light, when present, significantly depresses the activity levels of these snakes.

                              I got readings of 1 lux from a full moon late one night last winter.

                              But lots of people buy these Moon Glow lamps or use red lamps so they can observe their reptiles walking around at night. It seemed to me that humans can't see colour in dim light, eg. moonlight, so the fact that these lamps light up the tanks in red or blue suggested they might be a lot brighter than moonlight. I set up samples of reptile "night lights" and took lux readings at different distances. I was astonished at how bright these are. Here are a couple of the results:
                              ExoTerra 50W Moonlight Night Glo Neodymium Moonlight Lamp
                              at 6ins: 222 lux.
                              At 12ins: 89 lux
                              At 18ins: 52 lux.
                              ZooMed 60W Nocturnal Infrared Heat Lamp
                              at 6ins: 4,220 lux.
                              At 12ins: 1,270 lux
                              At 18ins: 598 lux.

                              Even the dark purple-blue Moonlight Lamp is nearly 45 times brighter than full moonlight, if it is 12ins above the reptile. (I assume there's nothing wrong with my lux meter....)

                              And 598 lux from the Nocturnal Infrared Heat Lamp is actually brighter than some of our reptile UVB fluorescent lamps at 12 ins.
                              Makes you think, doesn't it?

                              But I tried out the ExoTerra glow-in-the-dark Glow Light Clamp Lamp, too. I think it's just a gimmick. Remember when you were a kid and you bought some luminous paint and painted a moon on your bedroom wall? And after the light was turned off, you could see it for about ten minutes before it faded from view?
                              The Glow Light Clamp Lamp glows a weird bright green colour for about ten minutes after you turn off the basking lamp inside it.

                              Frances

                              --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com , nino maida <ninoupte7@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Do day time lizards hide during the night? If so, they might not even
                              > see the moon.
                              > -Nino
                              >
                              > On 7/28/09, sean46877 <sean46877@...> wrote:
                              > > It has been a while since we used the heat projectors, But I think I
                              > > understand what you are saying that it glows red like a stove element just
                              > > never noticed it probably (CHE's at the moment). I wonder now if maybe
                              > > something like the moon light would be good for some herps?
                              > >
                              > > Exxo terra makes a glow in the dark fixture
                              > > http://www.thefind.com/pets/browse-exo-terra-reptile-lighting
                              > >
                              > > probably little heat from this:
                              > >
                              > > http://store.petside.com/product/light-fixtures/7241/coralife-aqualight-lunar-moon-glow-led.html
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com , nino maida <ninoupte7@> wrote:
                              > >>
                              > >> Coil heaters produce (visible to us) a low level of red light; and so
                              > >> I assume that it is visible to the lizards.
                              > >> On the other hand, as I think about it, the moon produces much more
                              > >> light; so forget about this question.
                              > >> -Nino
                              > >>
                              > >> On 7/27/09, sean46877 <sean46877@> wrote:
                              > >> > You mean the IR non visable light to us humans right? interesting.
                              > >> >
                              > >> > --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com , nino maida <ninoupte7@> wrote:
                              > >> >>
                              > >> >> Has anyone done any experiments on the possibility that lizards might
                              > >> >> have
                              > >> >> their sleep habits detrimentally altered by the low light (red)
                              > >> >> produced
                              > >> >> by
                              > >> >> coil heaters (such as the ones I use from MegaRay)?
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • lilacdawndragon
                              Hi, Todd. You re welcome. Have you tried any nightlights with your own dragons? Did they wake up? I haven t used one, but sometimes I have to turn on the light
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jul 30, 2009
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                                Hi, Todd.

                                You're welcome.

                                Have you tried any nightlights with your own dragons? Did they wake up?

                                I haven't used one, but sometimes I have to turn on the light in the room where my dragons are, to do something in there after they've gone to sleep. I try not to do it too often, but I've noticed that if it's on for any length of time, the poor dragons do wake up a little and stare at me with bleary eyes...

                                Frances


                                --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com, kuhlinayn@... wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Hi there.  I am a longterm member of the Bearded Dragon List Pogona and the use of nightlights comes up from time to time.  Mind if I cross post your test results?
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Thanks!
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Todd
                                >
                              • nino maida
                                This is very fascinating. I assume that Rattlesnakes are predominantly hunting at night, and the darker the better for them, because they identify/focus on
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jul 30, 2009
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                                  This is very fascinating.
                                  I assume that Rattlesnakes are predominantly hunting at night, and the
                                  darker the better for them, because they identify/focus on prey by heat,
                                  because they hide from prey in the dark, and because they hide from
                                  preditors in the dark. If these guesses are correct, then more light, less
                                  activity.

                                  For daylight lizards, however, they hide at night and may not even see moon
                                  light in a burrow or burried in a leaf/rock pile, therefore, moon light may
                                  not be a factor.
                                  -Nino

                                  On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 4:29 PM, lilacdawndragon <lilacdragon@...>wrote:

                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Hi everyone.
                                  >
                                  > Moonlight's a very interesting topic.
                                  > A few months ago someone asked me why I thought "night lights" - either red
                                  > heat lamps or dark blue "moonglow" type lamps - were not ideal for reptiles,
                                  > so I did some research.
                                  >
                                  > There are several studies on the effects of moonlight on reptile activity.
                                  > This is a good one:
                                  > The Effect of Moonlight on Activity Patterns of Adult and Juvenile Prairie
                                  > Rattlesnakes (Crotalus viridis viridis)
                                  > http://www.jstor.org/pss/1565509
                                  > Moonlight apparently has a profound monthly effect on many creatures,
                                  > especially nocturnal and crepuscular ones. Of course some months, it's
                                  > cloudy so the night remains pitch black. But moonlight - although it seems
                                  > bright when your eyes get accustomed to it - is actually really, really dim.
                                  > The whole key point is - as you can see in the article - even the best
                                  > moonlight from a full moon in a clear sky only provides a maximum of about 2
                                  > lux! And yet this tiny amount of light, when present, significantly
                                  > depresses the activity levels of these snakes.
                                  >
                                  > I got readings of 1 lux from a full moon late one night last winter.
                                  >
                                  > But lots of people buy these Moon Glow lamps or use red lamps so they can
                                  > observe their reptiles walking around at night. It seemed to me that humans
                                  > can't see colour in dim light, eg. moonlight, so the fact that these lamps
                                  > light up the tanks in red or blue suggested they might be a lot brighter
                                  > than moonlight. I set up samples of reptile "night lights" and took lux
                                  > readings at different distances. I was astonished at how bright these are.
                                  > Here are a couple of the results:
                                  > ExoTerra 50W Moonlight Night Glo Neodymium Moonlight Lamp
                                  > at 6ins: 222 lux.
                                  > At 12ins: 89 lux
                                  > At 18ins: 52 lux.
                                  > ZooMed 60W Nocturnal Infrared Heat Lamp
                                  > at 6ins: 4,220 lux.
                                  > At 12ins: 1,270 lux
                                  > At 18ins: 598 lux.
                                  >
                                  > Even the dark purple-blue Moonlight Lamp is nearly 45 times brighter than
                                  > full moonlight, if it is 12ins above the reptile. (I assume there's nothing
                                  > wrong with my lux meter....)
                                  >
                                  > And 598 lux from the Nocturnal Infrared Heat Lamp is actually brighter than
                                  > some of our reptile UVB fluorescent lamps at 12 ins.
                                  > Makes you think, doesn't it?
                                  >
                                  > But I tried out the ExoTerra glow-in-the-dark Glow Light Clamp Lamp, too. I
                                  > think it's just a gimmick. Remember when you were a kid and you bought some
                                  > luminous paint and painted a moon on your bedroom wall? And after the light
                                  > was turned off, you could see it for about ten minutes before it faded from
                                  > view?
                                  > The Glow Light Clamp Lamp glows a weird bright green colour for about ten
                                  > minutes after you turn off the basking lamp inside it.
                                  >
                                  > Frances
                                  >
                                  > --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                  > nino maida <ninoupte7@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Do day time lizards hide during the night? If so, they might not even
                                  > > see the moon.
                                  > > -Nino
                                  > >
                                  > > On 7/28/09, sean46877 <sean46877@...> wrote:
                                  > > > It has been a while since we used the heat projectors, But I think I
                                  > > > understand what you are saying that it glows red like a stove element
                                  > just
                                  > > > never noticed it probably (CHE's at the moment). I wonder now if maybe
                                  > > > something like the moon light would be good for some herps?
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Exxo terra makes a glow in the dark fixture
                                  > > > http://www.thefind.com/pets/browse-exo-terra-reptile-lighting
                                  > > >
                                  > > > probably little heat from this:
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > http://store.petside.com/product/light-fixtures/7241/coralife-aqualight-lunar-moon-glow-led.html
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                  > nino maida <ninoupte7@> wrote:
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >> Coil heaters produce (visible to us) a low level of red light; and so
                                  > > >> I assume that it is visible to the lizards.
                                  > > >> On the other hand, as I think about it, the moon produces much more
                                  > > >> light; so forget about this question.
                                  > > >> -Nino
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >> On 7/27/09, sean46877 <sean46877@> wrote:
                                  > > >> > You mean the IR non visable light to us humans right? interesting.
                                  > > >> >
                                  > > >> > --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>,
                                  > nino maida <ninoupte7@> wrote:
                                  > > >> >>
                                  > > >> >> Has anyone done any experiments on the possibility that lizards
                                  > might
                                  > > >> >> have
                                  > > >> >> their sleep habits detrimentally altered by the low light (red)
                                  > > >> >> produced
                                  > > >> >> by
                                  > > >> >> coil heaters (such as the ones I use from MegaRay)?
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • kuhlinayn@comcast.net
                                  First off, my apologies for sending the request to the group.  I am used to the default Reply is the individual.  I never even looked this time :) As for
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Jul 30, 2009
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                                    First off, my apologies for sending the request to the group.  I am used to the default "Reply" is the individual.  I never even looked this time :)



                                    As for whether I use them, no.  My 2 beardies (one P. vitticeps and one Vittikins Intergrade) are both over 15 years old and have never had any supplemental nighttime heat or light.  With diurnal herps, the only real reason (IMHO) people use them at night is to provide heat they are told they can't see.  My dragons are in a 75g tank with a 100w MegaRay on one side and a 100w household incandescent on the other.   I am a firm believer that people as a rule keep them too warm and this most certainly is the case at night.  The temps simply fall off to what the house is at whether it be in the low 80s at night the last couple days here in Seattle or in the upper 50s/low 60s during the winter.



                                    As for the turning on and off of lights in the same room, it isn't something I am going to worry about and never have.  If they want it darker they will go into darker areas but turning on a light to be able to see where you put your keys isn't really going to affect them in any tangible way.  They recognize which lights are the lights that tell them to get up and wake up and it isn't the 60w bulb in the dining room that is 9 feet away, it is the 100w bulb that is 18" above the floor of thier tank :)



                                    Thanks for the permission.



                                    Todd




                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "lilacdawndragon" <lilacdragon@...>
                                    To: "UVB Meter Owners" <UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:06:19 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
                                    Subject: [UVB_Meter_Owners] Re: moon glow

                                     




                                    Hi, Todd.

                                    You're welcome.

                                    Have you tried any nightlights with your own dragons? Did they wake up?

                                    I haven't used one, but sometimes I have to turn on the light in the room where my dragons are, to do something in there after they've gone to sleep. I try not to do it too often, but I've noticed that if it's on for any length of time, the poor dragons do wake up a little and stare at me with bleary eyes...

                                    Frances

                                    --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com , kuhlinayn@... wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Hi there.  I am a longterm member of the Bearded Dragon List Pogona and the use of nightlights comes up from time to time.  Mind if I cross post your test results?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Thanks!
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Todd
                                    >




                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • chris
                                    On the general subject of night lighting, for many years part of my reptile room was shut off and had day and night reversed so that I could observe nocturnal
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Jul 31, 2009
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      On the general subject of night lighting, for many years part of my reptile room was shut off and had day and night reversed so that I could observe nocturnal species going about their business.

                                      It contained four vivaria which, in turn contained a number of nocturnal/crepuscular/diurnal amphibians and reptiles.

                                      Day time lighting/heating (our night - their day) consisted of low UVB output tubes with small spots for basking spots (and, yes, as an aside, even the nocturnal species would occasionally get up specifically to bask for a few minutes). Night time lighting was I felt necessary both for the animal's benefit and so that I could see them. Bear in mind that even the darkest "natural night" is unlikely to be as dark as a light-sealed room. So, above, but outside each vivaria, shining through a (dirty) glass top thus cutting out any UV radiation, I mounted a so-called "black-light" tube which actually glows with a muted blue. Night time temperatures were normally left to room temperature although there was a red light bulb on a thermostat if temperatures dropped very low.

                                      It is also worth bearing in mind that I ALWAYS provide very secure refugia for my animals within vivaria so that they can easily hide away from each other, human eye AND direct light at inappropriate times.

                                      The pale blue of the black-light gave sufficient light to see that animals and their behaviour.

                                      More importantly, the entire set-up worked as planned. The diurnal species were active during the "vivaria day" and retired to refugia during "vivaria night". Thye were NEVER active at night unless disturbed by one of the other inhabitants - and then only reluctantly and briefly. The nocturnal species reversed this behaviour and the allegedly crepuscular were actually found to be intermittently active at any time of day or night, with, unsurprisingly, main activity just after "nightfall" and just before "dawn"! (I have since seen this behaviour repeated in "normal" vivaria. A natural example, wild in the UK, is the Slowwworm which exhibits such behaviour naturally. I have also seen it with skinks and geckos in unlit greenhouses)

                                      Every species kept in these vivaria lived normal healthy lives and bred repeatedly and successfully.

                                      Nowadays, I no longer have any "photoperiod reversal" vivaria but some vivaria do still use the same form of night light - again with continuing success.

                                      My conclusions are that a sufficiently weak light to emulate bright moonlight has no adverse effect on animals so long as they are able, in the case of diurnal species, to utilise refugia which avoid direct light penetration. For nocturnal and crepuscular species I believe it is of positive benefit.

                                      Chris
                                      Chris Davis
                                      Co-ordinator, Sand Lizard Captive Breeding Programme
                                      Administrator, RAUK - www.herpetofauna.co.uk
                                      Webmaster, The Herpetological Conservation Trust - www.herpconstrust.org.uk, www.adder.org.uk
                                      Consultant, www.narrs.org.uk, www.alienencounters.org.uk, www.arc-trust.org
                                      Tel 07802 708556

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: sean46877
                                      To: UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 4:25 AM
                                      Subject: [UVB_Meter_Owners] moon glow


                                      It has been a while since we used the heat projectors, But I think I understand what you are saying that it glows red like a stove element just never noticed it probably (CHE's at the moment). I wonder now if maybe something like the moon light would be good for some herps?

                                      Exxo terra makes a glow in the dark fixture
                                      http://www.thefind.com/pets/browse-exo-terra-reptile-lighting

                                      probably little heat from this:

                                      http://store.petside.com/product/light-fixtures/7241/coralife-aqualight-lunar-moon-glow-led.html

                                      --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com, nino maida <ninoupte7@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Coil heaters produce (visible to us) a low level of red light; and so
                                      > I assume that it is visible to the lizards.
                                      > On the other hand, as I think about it, the moon produces much more
                                      > light; so forget about this question.
                                      > -Nino
                                      >
                                      > On 7/27/09, sean46877 <sean46877@...> wrote:
                                      > > You mean the IR non visable light to us humans right? interesting.
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com, nino maida <ninoupte7@> wrote:
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Has anyone done any experiments on the possibility that lizards might have
                                      > >> their sleep habits detrimentally altered by the low light (red) produced
                                      > >> by
                                      > >> coil heaters (such as the ones I use from MegaRay)?





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • nino maida
                                      Thank you for your valuable input based on experience. I would like to ask other dragon keepers as to what they feel is an ok night time low temp? -Nino ...
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Jul 31, 2009
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                                        Thank you for your valuable input based on experience.
                                        I would like to ask other dragon keepers as to what they feel is an ok night
                                        time low temp?
                                        -Nino

                                        On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 5:27 PM, <kuhlinayn@...> wrote:

                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > First off, my apologies for sending the request to the group. I am used to
                                        > the default "Reply" is the individual. I never even looked this time :)
                                        >
                                        > As for whether I use them, no. My 2 beardies (one P. vitticeps and one
                                        > Vittikins Intergrade) are both over 15 years old and have never had any
                                        > supplemental nighttime heat or light. With diurnal herps, the only real
                                        > reason (IMHO) people use them at night is to provide heat they are told they
                                        > can't see. My dragons are in a 75g tank with a 100w MegaRay on one side and
                                        > a 100w household incandescent on the other. I am a firm believer that
                                        > people as a rule keep them too warm and this most certainly is the case at
                                        > night. The temps simply fall off to what the house is at whether it be in
                                        > the low 80s at night the last couple days here in Seattle or in the upper
                                        > 50s/low 60s during the winter.
                                        >
                                        > As for the turning on and off of lights in the same room, it isn't
                                        > something I am going to worry about and never have. If they want it darker
                                        > they will go into darker areas but turning on a light to be able to see
                                        > where you put your keys isn't really going to affect them in any tangible
                                        > way. They recognize which lights are the lights that tell them to get up
                                        > and wake up and it isn't the 60w bulb in the dining room that is 9 feet
                                        > away, it is the 100w bulb that is 18" above the floor of thier tank :)
                                        >
                                        > Thanks for the permission.
                                        >
                                        > Todd
                                        >
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: "lilacdawndragon" <lilacdragon@...<lilacdragon%40lineone.net>>
                                        >
                                        > To: "UVB Meter Owners" <UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>>
                                        >
                                        > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:06:19 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
                                        > Subject: [UVB_Meter_Owners] Re: moon glow
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Hi, Todd.
                                        >
                                        > You're welcome.
                                        >
                                        > Have you tried any nightlights with your own dragons? Did they wake up?
                                        >
                                        > I haven't used one, but sometimes I have to turn on the light in the room
                                        > where my dragons are, to do something in there after they've gone to sleep.
                                        > I try not to do it too often, but I've noticed that if it's on for any
                                        > length of time, the poor dragons do wake up a little and stare at me with
                                        > bleary eyes...
                                        >
                                        > Frances
                                        >
                                        > --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com<UVB_Meter_Owners%40yahoogroups.com>, kuhlinayn@...
                                        > wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Hi there. I am a longterm member of the Bearded Dragon List Pogona and
                                        > the use of nightlights comes up from time to time. Mind if I cross post
                                        > your test results?
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Thanks!
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Todd
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • lilacdawndragon
                                        Hi, Chris. What a fascinating project that must have been. ... A very interesting point! But most ordinary rooms in houses have windows and doors which are
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Aug 2, 2009
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                                          Hi, Chris.

                                          What a fascinating project that must have been.
                                          >>Bear in mind that even the darkest "natural night" is unlikely to >>be as dark as a light-sealed room.

                                          A very interesting point! But most ordinary rooms in houses have windows and doors which are going to let in some "light pollution" from the rest of the house, street lamps, etc, and also the dawn and dusk will be visible through the windows.

                                          >>So, above, but outside each vivaria, shining through a (dirty) >>glass top thus cutting out any UV radiation, I mounted a so->>called "black-light" tube which actually glows with a muted blue.

                                          I was thinking about this, wondering whether you were using a "black-light blue" - the purple "disco" UVA tube - or the true old-fashioned "blacklight" which was a white tube that looked faintly blue-grey, and emitted UVB as well as UVA. You can still buy these easily in Australia...
                                          ...when it suddenly occurred to me.
                                          These only look muted blue to us, because we can't see UVA.
                                          To a reptile or bird, they must light up the place bright as day...in "UVA colour"!
                                          The spectra of both these types of blacklight have THE most massive peaks in the upper UVA region between 350 - 400nm. The irradiance from these, in the UVA region, is a lot higher, for example, than the irradiance of the visible light from a Daylight-type (household)fluorescent tube like a Sylvania Activa 172. Quite remarkable actually...

                                          Strange, though... Chris's reptiles seemed to ignore it, didn't they?



                                          Frances



                                          --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com, "chris" <chris@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > On the general subject of night lighting, for many years part of my reptile room was shut off and had day and night reversed so that I could observe nocturnal species going about their business.
                                          >
                                          > It contained four vivaria which, in turn contained a number of nocturnal/crepuscular/diurnal amphibians and reptiles.
                                          >
                                          > Day time lighting/heating (our night - their day) consisted of low UVB output tubes with small spots for basking spots (and, yes, as an aside, even the nocturnal species would occasionally get up specifically to bask for a few minutes). Night time lighting was I felt necessary both for the animal's benefit and so that I could see them. Bear in mind that even the darkest "natural night" is unlikely to be as dark as a light-sealed room. So, above, but outside each vivaria, shining through a (dirty) glass top thus cutting out any UV radiation, I mounted a so-called "black-light" tube which actually glows with a muted blue. Night time temperatures were normally left to room temperature although there was a red light bulb on a thermostat if temperatures dropped very low.
                                          >
                                          > It is also worth bearing in mind that I ALWAYS provide very secure refugia for my animals within vivaria so that they can easily hide away from each other, human eye AND direct light at inappropriate times.
                                          >
                                          > The pale blue of the black-light gave sufficient light to see that animals and their behaviour.
                                          >
                                          > More importantly, the entire set-up worked as planned. The diurnal species were active during the "vivaria day" and retired to refugia during "vivaria night". Thye were NEVER active at night unless disturbed by one of the other inhabitants - and then only reluctantly and briefly. The nocturnal species reversed this behaviour and the allegedly crepuscular were actually found to be intermittently active at any time of day or night, with, unsurprisingly, main activity just after "nightfall" and just before "dawn"! (I have since seen this behaviour repeated in "normal" vivaria. A natural example, wild in the UK, is the Slowwworm which exhibits such behaviour naturally. I have also seen it with skinks and geckos in unlit greenhouses)
                                          >
                                          > Every species kept in these vivaria lived normal healthy lives and bred repeatedly and successfully.
                                          >
                                          > Nowadays, I no longer have any "photoperiod reversal" vivaria but some vivaria do still use the same form of night light - again with continuing success.
                                          >
                                          > My conclusions are that a sufficiently weak light to emulate bright moonlight has no adverse effect on animals so long as they are able, in the case of diurnal species, to utilise refugia which avoid direct light penetration. For nocturnal and crepuscular species I believe it is of positive benefit.
                                          >
                                          > Chris
                                        • chris
                                          Hi Frances Firstly, I was using the purple UVA tube. Obviously there was significant filtering by the glass tops of the vivs, enhanced by the film of dust!
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Aug 2, 2009
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                                            Hi Frances

                                            Firstly, I was using the purple UVA tube.

                                            Obviously there was significant filtering by the glass tops of the vivs, "enhanced" by the film of dust!

                                            Nonetheless some 50% of the total UVA must have been getting through. BUT, although reptiles/birds can see UVA they can also see normal daylight wavelengths.

                                            Given this, no, I don't think it would be "as bright as day" to them. Most of the wavelengths they can perceive would, in fact, not be visible. I should imagine our world would look rather different if a chunk of the wavelengths we CAN see were filtered out - and certainly a lot dimmer.

                                            I should imagine that the effect in terms of visibility was not much more than bright moonlight.

                                            As I say - the animals certainly responded totally and perfectly to the reversed day/night cycle.

                                            All the best

                                            Chris



                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: lilacdawndragon
                                            To: UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 5:34 PM
                                            Subject: [UVB_Meter_Owners] Re: moon glow


                                            Hi, Chris.

                                            What a fascinating project that must have been.
                                            >>Bear in mind that even the darkest "natural night" is unlikely to >>be as dark as a light-sealed room.

                                            A very interesting point! But most ordinary rooms in houses have windows and doors which are going to let in some "light pollution" from the rest of the house, street lamps, etc, and also the dawn and dusk will be visible through the windows.

                                            >>So, above, but outside each vivaria, shining through a (dirty) >>glass top thus cutting out any UV radiation, I mounted a so->>called "black-light" tube which actually glows with a muted blue.

                                            I was thinking about this, wondering whether you were using a "black-light blue" - the purple "disco" UVA tube - or the true old-fashioned "blacklight" which was a white tube that looked faintly blue-grey, and emitted UVB as well as UVA. You can still buy these easily in Australia...
                                            ...when it suddenly occurred to me.
                                            These only look muted blue to us, because we can't see UVA.
                                            To a reptile or bird, they must light up the place bright as day...in "UVA colour"!
                                            The spectra of both these types of blacklight have THE most massive peaks in the upper UVA region between 350 - 400nm. The irradiance from these, in the UVA region, is a lot higher, for example, than the irradiance of the visible light from a Daylight-type (household)fluorescent tube like a Sylvania Activa 172. Quite remarkable actually...

                                            Strange, though... Chris's reptiles seemed to ignore it, didn't they?

                                            Frances

                                            --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com, "chris" <chris@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > On the general subject of night lighting, for many years part of my reptile room was shut off and had day and night reversed so that I could observe nocturnal species going about their business.
                                            >
                                            > It contained four vivaria which, in turn contained a number of nocturnal/crepuscular/diurnal amphibians and reptiles.
                                            >
                                            > Day time lighting/heating (our night - their day) consisted of low UVB output tubes with small spots for basking spots (and, yes, as an aside, even the nocturnal species would occasionally get up specifically to bask for a few minutes). Night time lighting was I felt necessary both for the animal's benefit and so that I could see them. Bear in mind that even the darkest "natural night" is unlikely to be as dark as a light-sealed room. So, above, but outside each vivaria, shining through a (dirty) glass top thus cutting out any UV radiation, I mounted a so-called "black-light" tube which actually glows with a muted blue. Night time temperatures were normally left to room temperature although there was a red light bulb on a thermostat if temperatures dropped very low.
                                            >
                                            > It is also worth bearing in mind that I ALWAYS provide very secure refugia for my animals within vivaria so that they can easily hide away from each other, human eye AND direct light at inappropriate times.
                                            >
                                            > The pale blue of the black-light gave sufficient light to see that animals and their behaviour.
                                            >
                                            > More importantly, the entire set-up worked as planned. The diurnal species were active during the "vivaria day" and retired to refugia during "vivaria night". Thye were NEVER active at night unless disturbed by one of the other inhabitants - and then only reluctantly and briefly. The nocturnal species reversed this behaviour and the allegedly crepuscular were actually found to be intermittently active at any time of day or night, with, unsurprisingly, main activity just after "nightfall" and just before "dawn"! (I have since seen this behaviour repeated in "normal" vivaria. A natural example, wild in the UK, is the Slowwworm which exhibits such behaviour naturally. I have also seen it with skinks and geckos in unlit greenhouses)
                                            >
                                            > Every species kept in these vivaria lived normal healthy lives and bred repeatedly and successfully.
                                            >
                                            > Nowadays, I no longer have any "photoperiod reversal" vivaria but some vivaria do still use the same form of night light - again with continuing success.
                                            >
                                            > My conclusions are that a sufficiently weak light to emulate bright moonlight has no adverse effect on animals so long as they are able, in the case of diurnal species, to utilise refugia which avoid direct light penetration. For nocturnal and crepuscular species I believe it is of positive benefit.
                                            >
                                            > Chris





                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • lilacdawndragon
                                            Hi, Chris. Thanks for getting me to think this through more carefully! You re right, it wouldn t be anything like as bright as day; I was quite wrong. I was
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Aug 3, 2009
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                                              Hi, Chris.

                                              Thanks for getting me to think this through more carefully! You're right, it wouldn't be anything like as bright as day; I was quite wrong. I was also wrong to use the word "day", too, because that implies full colour, i.e. white light.
                                              I think it would be a similar effect (in UVA-colour) to using a single-colour light bulb, for us, e.g. a red bulb.

                                              I think it might have been brighter than ordinary moonlight though. I might be wrong - and I don't know how much of the light, in the wavelengths they could see, was getting through the glass and dust... but I just dug out some of the spectral data for different 24" lamps ...and it's really quite interesting!

                                              My spectrometer software can integrate absolute irradiances across wavelengths. When I take spectra I routinely ask it to calculate the microwatts per square centimetre of irradiance, in bands eg. from 280 - 320nm (UVB), 320 - 400nm (UVA) and 400 - 750nm (visible, "VIS"). The distance I use for fluorescent tubes is 10cm.
                                              Here are the irradiances for some different tubes (All values in uW/cm2) They were all T8 18W except for the NEC Blacklight which was a T12, 20W lamp.

                                              Philips Blacklight-Blue T8 VIS = 8.47 UVA = 655.18 UVB = 2.93
                                              NEC Blacklight 20W T10 VIS = 121.19 UVA = 803.56 UVB = 15.38
                                              Philips Daylight (Household)VIS = 753.68 UVA = 32.91 UVB = 6.73
                                              Sylvania Activa 172 VIS = 785.03 UVA = 49.58 UVB = 7.28
                                              Arcadia D3 reptile VIS = 534.89 UVA = 158.07 UVB = 35.81

                                              The total irradiance for the Blacklight-Blue (the UVA tube) is in fact lower than all the others - I think the dark glass must be absorbing a visible component. But almost all of its irradiance is in the UVA range.
                                              This contrasts nicely with the Daylight tubes that have almost all their irradiance in the visible wavelengths.
                                              The Arcadia D3, a typical reptile UVB-UVA-VIS tube, has a proportion of its output in all three ranges, as you'd expect...

                                              I know reptiles can't see short wavelength UVA, but I don't have figures for just UVA above 350nm, sorry...
                                              But if you add up the total irradiance of an Arcadia tube in the UVA-plus-visible range it comes to about 693 uW/cm2. If you do the same for the Philips Blacklight-Blue you get about 664 uW/cm2.

                                              So what I ought to have said, is that the blacklight-blue tube might seem approximately as bright as a typical reptile UVB-UVA-VIS tube, to a reptile. But in one colour only, whereas the typical reptile tube *might* look "white" to the reptile as well as to us.
                                              What do you think?

                                              All the best,

                                              Frances


                                              --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com, "chris" <chris@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Hi Frances
                                              >
                                              > Firstly, I was using the purple UVA tube.
                                              >
                                              > Obviously there was significant filtering by the glass tops of the vivs, "enhanced" by the film of dust!
                                              >
                                              > Nonetheless some 50% of the total UVA must have been getting through. BUT, although reptiles/birds can see UVA they can also see normal daylight wavelengths.
                                              >
                                              > Given this, no, I don't think it would be "as bright as day" to them. Most of the wavelengths they can perceive would, in fact, not be visible. I should imagine our world would look rather different if a chunk of the wavelengths we CAN see were filtered out - and certainly a lot dimmer.
                                              >
                                              > I should imagine that the effect in terms of visibility was not much more than bright moonlight.
                                              >
                                              > As I say - the animals certainly responded totally and perfectly to the reversed day/night cycle.
                                              >
                                              > All the best
                                              >
                                              > Chris
                                              >
                                            • chris
                                              Hi Frances I think your fresh analysis has probably hit the nail on the head. I believe the end result is a combination of your second and penultimate
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Aug 3, 2009
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                                                Hi Frances

                                                I think your fresh analysis has probably hit the nail on the head.

                                                I believe the end result is a combination of your second and penultimate paragraphs. i.e. albeit in different colour the effect would be as though using a single colour light bulb - bright perhaps - but certainly not daylight.

                                                Additionally there is always the problem of precisely interpreting what a lizard sees. After all, I don't even know what, for example, you see when I perceive something as a weak blue light! We are simply interpreting what we believe a lizard's eye structure permits them to see - but believing we actually know is self-delusion!

                                                I am also unsure to what extent differing perception in differing (by habit) herps has been studied. Yes, diurnal lizards can see into the UVA ranges but can also, apparently see most of what we would call "visible light". But, to what extent is this true of nocturnal - or even crepuscular species - including amphibians? The presumption is that if their colour perception is relevant to night-time activity then it is likely that they can see further into the red end of the spectrum. If this is the case - are they losing out at the blue end? i.e. perhaps do not see UVA to the same extent as diurnal species?

                                                I may be talking through my hat but in the absence of any evidence to the contrary (ie evidence of which I am aware - bearing in mind that I know next to nothing!) it does seem that this might be a factor.

                                                All the best

                                                Chris


                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: lilacdawndragon
                                                To: UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:37 PM
                                                Subject: [UVB_Meter_Owners] Re: moon glow


                                                Hi, Chris.

                                                Thanks for getting me to think this through more carefully! You're right, it wouldn't be anything like as bright as day; I was quite wrong. I was also wrong to use the word "day", too, because that implies full colour, i.e. white light.
                                                I think it would be a similar effect (in UVA-colour) to using a single-colour light bulb, for us, e.g. a red bulb.

                                                I think it might have been brighter than ordinary moonlight though. I might be wrong - and I don't know how much of the light, in the wavelengths they could see, was getting through the glass and dust... but I just dug out some of the spectral data for different 24" lamps ...and it's really quite interesting!

                                                My spectrometer software can integrate absolute irradiances across wavelengths. When I take spectra I routinely ask it to calculate the microwatts per square centimetre of irradiance, in bands eg. from 280 - 320nm (UVB), 320 - 400nm (UVA) and 400 - 750nm (visible, "VIS"). The distance I use for fluorescent tubes is 10cm.
                                                Here are the irradiances for some different tubes (All values in uW/cm2) They were all T8 18W except for the NEC Blacklight which was a T12, 20W lamp.

                                                Philips Blacklight-Blue T8 VIS = 8.47 UVA = 655.18 UVB = 2.93
                                                NEC Blacklight 20W T10 VIS = 121.19 UVA = 803.56 UVB = 15.38
                                                Philips Daylight (Household)VIS = 753.68 UVA = 32.91 UVB = 6.73
                                                Sylvania Activa 172 VIS = 785.03 UVA = 49.58 UVB = 7.28
                                                Arcadia D3 reptile VIS = 534.89 UVA = 158.07 UVB = 35.81

                                                The total irradiance for the Blacklight-Blue (the UVA tube) is in fact lower than all the others - I think the dark glass must be absorbing a visible component. But almost all of its irradiance is in the UVA range.
                                                This contrasts nicely with the Daylight tubes that have almost all their irradiance in the visible wavelengths.
                                                The Arcadia D3, a typical reptile UVB-UVA-VIS tube, has a proportion of its output in all three ranges, as you'd expect...

                                                I know reptiles can't see short wavelength UVA, but I don't have figures for just UVA above 350nm, sorry...
                                                But if you add up the total irradiance of an Arcadia tube in the UVA-plus-visible range it comes to about 693 uW/cm2. If you do the same for the Philips Blacklight-Blue you get about 664 uW/cm2.

                                                So what I ought to have said, is that the blacklight-blue tube might seem approximately as bright as a typical reptile UVB-UVA-VIS tube, to a reptile. But in one colour only, whereas the typical reptile tube *might* look "white" to the reptile as well as to us.
                                                What do you think?

                                                All the best,

                                                Frances

                                                --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com, "chris" <chris@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Hi Frances
                                                >
                                                > Firstly, I was using the purple UVA tube.
                                                >
                                                > Obviously there was significant filtering by the glass tops of the vivs, "enhanced" by the film of dust!
                                                >
                                                > Nonetheless some 50% of the total UVA must have been getting through. BUT, although reptiles/birds can see UVA they can also see normal daylight wavelengths.
                                                >
                                                > Given this, no, I don't think it would be "as bright as day" to them. Most of the wavelengths they can perceive would, in fact, not be visible. I should imagine our world would look rather different if a chunk of the wavelengths we CAN see were filtered out - and certainly a lot dimmer.
                                                >
                                                > I should imagine that the effect in terms of visibility was not much more than bright moonlight.
                                                >
                                                > As I say - the animals certainly responded totally and perfectly to the reversed day/night cycle.
                                                >
                                                > All the best
                                                >
                                                > Chris
                                                >





                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Sarina Wunderlich
                                                Hello Chris, ... I think colour is kind of two fold. We perceive colour often as a kind of feeling and link it to beauty, psychological impressions. We feel
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Aug 4, 2009
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Hello Chris,
                                                  > Additionally there is always the problem of precisely interpreting what a lizard sees. After all, I don't even know what, for example, you see when I perceive something as a weak blue light! We are simply interpreting what we believe a lizard's eye structure permits them to see - but believing we actually know is self-delusion!
                                                  >
                                                  I think colour is kind of two fold. We perceive colour often as a kind
                                                  of feeling and link it to beauty, psychological impressions. We feel
                                                  that some colours match whereas others do not.
                                                  The other side of colour is the ability to discriminate wavelengths or
                                                  reflection spectra. This part of colour is purely mathematical. One can
                                                  calculate what colours animals are able to discriminate and what colours
                                                  look similar. One can calculate how big the contrast between a lizard
                                                  and the rock it is sitting on, is for a bird. This side of colour vision
                                                  is something we can actually know - without much self-delusion.
                                                  Some literature:
                                                  http://lichtlit.testudolinks.de/index.php?action=listKeywordProcess&id=134
                                                  > I am also unsure to what extent differing perception in differing (by habit) herps has been studied. Yes, diurnal lizards can see into the UVA ranges but can also, apparently see most of what we would call "visible light". But, to what extent is this true of nocturnal - or even crepuscular species - including amphibians?
                                                  Most nocturnal reptiles and amphibians I have read so far have three
                                                  cones, sensitive in the UVA, blue and green range. Diurnal reptiles have
                                                  either the same colour abilities, sometimes sharpened by oil droplets,
                                                  or have a fourth cone in the red.

                                                  A very usefull visualization for colour vision is the colour space. For
                                                  humans this is a triangle with red, green and blue in the corners (you
                                                  might know it by the name CIE colour triangle, see wikipedia).
                                                  Here is the colour triangle for humans:
                                                  http://www.testudolinks.de/lichtwiki/_media/vis/tri1.png
                                                  All mixed colours lie inside the curve formed by the primary colours
                                                  (single wavelength). The mixture of two colours always lies on the line
                                                  connecting the starting colours, and the shorter the distance between
                                                  two dots the more similar the colours look.

                                                  Do not get confused by the colour of the dots! This is just for
                                                  visualization. It would be more correct to make them all black and write
                                                  the wavelength next to them.

                                                  If you calculate the same for a dog you get this:
                                                  http://www.testudolinks.de/lichtwiki/_media/vis/dichromat.png
                                                  - very poor. Just one line with white in the center. A dog can only see
                                                  white, bluer than white and greener than white.

                                                  3 cone reptiles:
                                                  http://www.testudolinks.de/lichtwiki/_media/vis/tri2.png
                                                  They can not distinguish "green" and "red" and their colour space is
                                                  wider spread than he human one. More colours fit in!

                                                  Amazing is the colour space of 4 cone reptiles:
                                                  http://www.testudolinks.de/lichtwiki/_media/vis/tetra.png
                                                  It is no longer a triangle but a pyramid. It is incredible what amount
                                                  of colours fits in there!

                                                  I hope soon to calculate also where the colour of certain materials lies
                                                  in these colour spaces and how this changes with an altered illumination
                                                  (black light tube, white light tube without uva ....). This will give
                                                  more insight in the colour abilities of reptiles and how their world
                                                  looks under the terrarium light.

                                                  > The presumption is that if their colour perception is relevant to night-time activity then it is likely that they can see further into the red end of the spectrum. If this is the case - are they losing out at the blue end? i.e. perhaps do not see UVA to the same extent as diurnal species?
                                                  >
                                                  Do not get cofused, it is the other way round! There is much more blue
                                                  in the light at dawn! It is exactly the other way round.


                                                  Sarina
                                                • lilacdawndragon
                                                  Sarina, this is wonderful... Thanks so much for sharing this. Frances
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Aug 4, 2009
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                                                    Sarina, this is wonderful... Thanks so much for sharing this.

                                                    Frances

                                                    --- In UVB_Meter_Owners@yahoogroups.com, Sarina Wunderlich <Sarina_Wunderlich@...> wrote:
                                                    > A very usefull visualization for colour vision is the colour space. For
                                                    > humans this is a triangle with red, green and blue in the corners (you
                                                    > might know it by the name CIE colour triangle, see wikipedia).
                                                    > Here is the colour triangle for humans:
                                                    > http://www.testudolinks.de/lichtwiki/_media/vis/tri1.png
                                                    > All mixed colours lie inside the curve formed by the primary colours
                                                    > (single wavelength). The mixture of two colours always lies on the line
                                                    > connecting the starting colours, and the shorter the distance between
                                                    > two dots the more similar the colours look.
                                                    >
                                                    > Do not get confused by the colour of the dots! This is just for
                                                    > visualization. It would be more correct to make them all black and write
                                                    > the wavelength next to them.
                                                    >
                                                    > If you calculate the same for a dog you get this:
                                                    > http://www.testudolinks.de/lichtwiki/_media/vis/dichromat.png
                                                    > - very poor. Just one line with white in the center. A dog can only see
                                                    > white, bluer than white and greener than white.
                                                    >
                                                    > 3 cone reptiles:
                                                    > http://www.testudolinks.de/lichtwiki/_media/vis/tri2.png
                                                    > They can not distinguish "green" and "red" and their colour space is
                                                    > wider spread than he human one. More colours fit in!
                                                    >
                                                    > Amazing is the colour space of 4 cone reptiles:
                                                    > http://www.testudolinks.de/lichtwiki/_media/vis/tetra.png
                                                    > It is no longer a triangle but a pyramid. It is incredible what amount
                                                    > of colours fits in there!
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