Re: [UVB_Meter_Owners] more ballast stuff
> Hi Jason,I'm aware of all of that, although it's been so long since I've thought of it that I'd forgotten exactly what compound was tested in the blood. I've had my girls for seven or eight years now. It would be interesting to run the test, but since vets in Las Vegas are so *incredibly* expensive compared to back home in the Ozarks, I don't anticipate doing it any time soon. :-)
> I understand the questions you have about uvb exposure. What you need to remember though is that MBD won't show itself overnight. It can take many years for an animal that is acquired as an adult to show signs of this disease.
- This thread is interesting---I like that all these ideas are being exchanged without anyone becoming insulting the way some lists/forums do.
Bob Mac does indeed have a UVB buisness now---after years of study, disappointment in certain products and of course with everyone's support. If you have a meter, I would suggest doing your own readings (if you don't get one--they are easy to aquire) so you can see for yourself the difference between bulbs---and the sun in areas where these animals live and thrive.
The results can be scarey at times.
We owe it to our captive reptiles to provide the best UVB we can afford---and Bob has made this possible. I think if he were in it for revenue, he would be making the same crap bulbs we see in petstores for the same money and instead of a workroom in NC he would be typing from a beach in the carribean :)
He made it a point to consult with me (for free) on the phone before selling me his products---in fact he insisted upon it.
Brian Stearns <brian@...> wrote:
I understand the questions you have about uvb exposure. What you need to remember though is that MBD won't show itself overnight. It can take many years for an animal that is acquired as an adult to show signs of this disease. This is because adults don't require near as much calcium as juvinile animals that are still growing. The only way to really know what's going on before the major signs of MBD start showing up is to have your animals blood hydroxi levels tested ( you didn't say if you had done this already so I'm gathering you haven't ). This will tell you if there is the proper amount of D3 in your animals blood. This will also tell you if your lamps are producing the right amount of uvb ( if the levels are low then you need stronger uvb lamps ). I probably didn't explain this right so please double check this with Bob Mac I know he will be able to explain it properly.
>I got my uros about the time the ESU Desert 7% lamp first came out.Some people liked it, some people hated it, but I liked the idea behind
it. Now, several years and lamp changes later (although, honestly, not
as many new lamps as there probably should've been), I still have two
extremely healthy female uros with no signs of MBD whatsoever. They've
never had any other lamp or any direct sun exposure.
Granted, experience with two individuals can't be scientifically
expanded to the entire species, but either this lamp puts out enough
UV-B for them or their requirements aren't as strict as other lizards
Some thoughts here Jason. First its good to see that you realize 2 is
not great conductor of a subject. Doc Gehrmann's "comparison study" in
the files section states that the choice to use the spiny tailed iguana
was because the group felt it was good subject to display the effects of
UVR on diurnal desert species. I would assume that the Uro's need for
UVB to help finalize the creation of 1,25(OH2)D or 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin
D (no, I'm not that smart, I always check my notes) would be similar to
the reptiles in this study. Below is a paragraph I wrote that Dr
Gehrmann was kind enough to reedit for me, for those of you that would
like to have the D3 conversion explained in the latest scientific terms.
The UV range is from 180-400 nm, the B range specifically from 280-320
However, we are most concerned with readings from 290-300 nm. This is
D-UV range. Why? Because this is the prime range that triggers the
of photo-biosynthesis, creating pre-vitamin D3 from pro vit D3 (= 7-DHC
= 7-dehydrocholesterol)).We think that about 80% of this photochemical
reaction is triggered by ultraviolet waves in this range. Ingested pro
vitD3 (7-dehydrocholesterol or 7-DHC) in the reptile's skin absorbs the
UV-B wavelengths, which allows the photochemical reaction that converts
the 7-DHC to pre vitD3 which is then thermallyisomerized to
cholecalcifero l(=vitD3). The latter is then converted in the liver to
25-hydroxycholecalciferol=25OHvit D3 and the final step towards becoming
biologically active vitamin D3 (1,25- dihydroxycholecalciferol = 1,25
(OH)2 vit D3 or 1,25 DHCC) takes place in the kidneys through this
process. Evidence indicates that 1,25 (OH)2 vit D3 is NOT stored but is
synthesized as "necessary" from the main storage form in the BLOOD, 25
OH vit D3,(therefore, the higher the blood hydroxyl level, the greater
the storage capacity) and its primary function is to regulate calcium
metabolism. This gives you some idea of why reptiles suffering from
metabolic bone disease (the lack of sufficient D3 to metabolize calcium)
may also suffer from forms of liver and kidney disease." (Although this
may not be as straight forward as it appears, W.G.)
>> I've already promised my contact at IceCap to disseminate the resultsto all who will listen. It would be great if they would extend the life
of UV-B lamps and let people get a year or more out of lamps that you're
supposed to change every six months. Will that happen? I don't know. The
other gentleman suggested that it was changes in the glass and not the
phosphors burning up, but you don't know until you look. If it is the
loss of the special phosphors, I anticipate a good result since IceCaps
don't have that initial super hot spark to start the lamp.<<
I was the gentlemen that said that the glass solorizes. You should know
that the phosphors have nothing to do with UVR creation; it's the other
way around. The mercury in the tube when iodized (electric current
passed through it) emits UV light. This energy (UV light) is then
absorbed by a thin coating of white phosphor on the inside of the bulb.
The white phosphor uses the energy from the UV light to emit visible
light (it fluoresces).
>>Only time will tell. I would *love* to announce to the world that ourresults indicated that you can run four ReptiSun lamps for a year and a
half from one ballast. Think of the money, environmental resources, and
energy that would save! Of course, there would need to be further study
in a more controlled situation.<<
All of the above doesn't mean that a more efficient ballast won't
increase the life of the lamps. I am still very excited to see some
serious testing on the matter.
>>You're in a different boat, though. You're selling a product while I'mjust giving away information.<<
Please don't be offended by some of the comments made here on this
subject. But because so many here give away information on reptile
health, its may have just struck a wrong note. If you can get some money
for this work, God bless you. I would like to see MK have a donation
button on every page she has to help offset her cost (with the exception
of her UV related pages which contain to many flaws.) If someone should
mention it to her.
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