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Re: [USAICO] New UCI Rules

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  • Myles Romanow
    Worlds didn t seem to use any of that stuff.. They had....2-3 wooden...dowels cut glat at the top, presumably nice and pointy below the surface. Guys were
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 14, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Worlds didn't seem to use any of that stuff.. They had....2-3" wooden...dowels cut glat at the top, presumably nice and pointy  below the surface. 

      Guys were using a gas powered auger (like whatyou would use for ice fishing..) to make a small hole, then whack them in.. definitely more effort.  Rent all places have those things. 
      No tape used as far as I could see.
      1/2" cotton rope was the order of the day clove hitched to each post.  Then banners tied to the rope/wood..
       
      I second the emotion about snow fencing being bad... that stuff is just not safe for this application and would likely cause more accidents than it would prevent.  carefull course setup may be the order of the day.
       
      M

      2008/8/14 Tom McDaniel <granoguecross@...>

       

      I looked at using plastic snow fence a couple of years ago, since there is always a few rolls laying around our construction yard.  . As a course marker or  lane divider it is inherently dangerous,  It works like this: The holes in it are large enough to admit then trap a break hood, front skewer, finger etc, and strong enough to stop the bike instantly.  So if your racers brush against it they are jacked and so is the rider behind them.

       

       The woven polypropylene fencing tolerates momentary contact with the racers bike without catching on or trapping parts of the bike.

       

      The woven stuff is expensive and working out a safe and quick to set up post system is tricky, steel is prohibited and wood takes a dedicated post installer machine that everyone in Belgium seems to have. But is way outside our budgets.

       

       At Granogue we are using a cut down steel T post with a ABS sleeve and safety cap that holds the ¼" poly propylene rope that the fabric fence hangs from.  Then we used a couple thousand zip ties.

       

      Last year was the first time we had the fabric fencing from SRAM and the learning curve was bit steep.  It is a lot more time and effort then step in post and tape.

       

       

      Anyhow the above installs relatively quickly in our local semi rocky soil and removes just as fast using hand tools.

       

      It is a pain to store and move.

       

      To recap:

      Snow fence = Bad

       

       

      Tom  McDaniel

      Granogue Cross

       

       

       

       

       


      From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Meehan, John
      Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 12:05 PM
      To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com


      Subject: RE: [USAICO] New UCI Rules

       

      If you look at the videos from Europe, they use that fencing that looks like mesh. But that's probably a big expense so I agree with Adam and this should be easy to remedy with snow fencing as that will be adequate for dealing with the intent of the rule.

       

      John Meehan

       


      From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adam Myerson
      Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:48 AM
      To: USAICO
      Subject: Re: [USAICO] New UCI Rules

       

      Think "snow fence." That what's intended here, if you think in terms of
      spirit of the rules.

      You don't want fence with really big, loose holes, because riders stick
      brake hoods in them and get their bikes ripped out from under them. I know.
      I've done it.

      Adam

      on 8/14/08 9:43 AM, Douglas Dobrozsi at ddobrozsi@... wrote:

      > I think this will have a big impact on cost / design. The fencing I have is
      > not 1 cm or smaller square openings.
      > Also - height is not specified for the fence. Surely there needs to be a
      > minimum?
      > High fences with little holes are bad for spectators.
      > Doug Dobrozsi
      >
      >
      > On 8/13/08, Meehan, John <john.meehan@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> The other major change: fencing/netting is required between any portion
      >> of the course that connects to another portionŠperhaps in response in order
      >> to avoid the incident that took out Trebon at Nats last year. We can't
      >> simply put the tape up between adjoining riding lanes.
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Certainly important from a safety issue but could escalate course
      >> construction costs and set up time considerably.
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> John Meehan
      >>
      >> Carousel Volkswagen Jingle Cross Rock
      >>
      >>
      >> ------------------------------
      >>
      >> *From:* USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf
      >> Of *Alan Atwood
      >> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 13, 2008 11:04 AM
      >> *To:* usaico@yahoogroups.com
      >> *Subject:* RE: [USAICO] New UCI Rules
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> The one change that really stood out for me was the requirement on an
      >> ambulance, 4 EMT's, and a doctor on site. The lawyers getting to them in
      >> Europe too???
      >>
      >> Alan
      >>
      >> ------------------------------
      >>
      >>
      >> To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
      >> From: adam@...
      >> Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 12:21:37 -0400
      >> Subject: [USAICO] New UCI Rules
      >>
      >> All,
      >>
      >> The new UCI rules were officially published today:
      >>
      >>
      >> http://uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/getObject.asp?MenuId=MTkzNg&ObjTypeCode=FILE&t
      >> ype=FILE&id=34593&
      >>
      >> Modifications are in red. Please read closely and be familiar with
      >> everything in this document.
      >>
      >> If the link doesn't work, start at www.uci.ch and follow the links for
      >> rules, then cyclo-cross.
      >>
      >> Adam
      >> --
      >> Adam F. Myerson
      >> President, Cycle-Smart, Inc.: Solutions for Cycling
      >> Member, UCI Cyclo-Cross Commission
      >> Member, AIOC-Cross Management Committee
      >> Organizer, Cycle-Smart International Cyclo-Cross
      >> President, Verge New England Championship Cyclo-Cross Series
      >>
      >> 32 Ditson St., #5
      >> Dorchester, MA 02122
      >> (413) 204-3202 Mobile
      >> (617) 288-1460 Office
      >> (512) 681-7043 Fax
      >> 499 12 63 29 Belgium
      >> adam@...
      >> http://cycle-smart.com
      >> http://cycle-smart.com/blog
      >> http://timeprocycling.com
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is
      >> for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential
      >> and privileged information protected by law. Any unauthorized review, use,
      >> disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended
      >> recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies
      >> of the original message.
      >>


      CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information protected by law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.


    • Tom McDaniel
      The start banner shall be erected at least 2.5 m above the ground over the start line and shall cover the whole width of the start section. It looks like I
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 14, 2008
      • 0 Attachment

        The start banner shall be erected at least 2.5 m above the ground

        over the start line and shall cover the whole width of the start section.

         

        It looks like I will get written up for no start banner again this year….

         

        Tom

        Granogue Cross

         

         

         


        From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto: USAICO@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Myles Romanow
        Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 12:01 AM
        To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [USAICO] New UCI Rules

         

        Worlds didn't seem to use any of that stuff.. They had....2-3" wooden...dowels cut glat at the top, presumably nice and pointy  below the surface. 


        Guys were using a gas powered auger (like whatyou would use for ice fishing..) to make a small hole, then whack them in.. definitely more effort.  Rent all places have those things. 
        No tape used as far as I could see.

        1/2" cotton rope was the order of the day clove hitched to each post.  Then banners tied to the rope/wood..

         

        I second the emotion about snow fencing being bad... that stuff is just not safe for this application and would likely cause more accidents than it would prevent.  carefull course setup may be the order of the day.

         

        M

        2008/8/14 Tom McDaniel <granoguecross@ verizon.net>

         

        I looked at using plastic snow fence a couple of years ago, since there is always a few rolls laying around our construction yard.  . As a course marker or  lane divider it is inherently dangerous,  It works like this: The holes in it are large enough to admit then trap a break hood, front skewer, finger etc, and strong enough to stop the bike instantly.  So if your racers brush against it they are jacked and so is the rider behind them.

         

         The woven polypropylene fencing tolerates momentary contact with the racers bike without catching on or trapping parts of the bike.

         

        The woven stuff is expensive and working out a safe and quick to set up post system is tricky, steel is prohibited and wood takes a dedicated post installer machine that everyone in Belgium seems to have. But is way outside our budgets.

         

         At Granogue we are using a cut down steel T post with a ABS sleeve and safety cap that holds the ¼" poly propylene rope that the fabric fence hangs from.  Then we used a couple thousand zip ties.

         

        Last year was the first time we had the fabric fencing from SRAM and the learning curve was bit steep.  It is a lot more time and effort then step in post and tape.

         

         

        Anyhow the above installs relatively quickly in our local semi rocky soil and removes just as fast using hand tools.

         

        It is a pain to store and move.

         

        To recap:

        Snow fence = Bad

         

         

        Tom  McDaniel

        Granogue Cross

         

         

         

         

         


        From: USAICO@yahoogroups. com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Meehan, John
        Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 12:05 PM
        To: USAICO@yahoogroups. com


        Subject: RE: [USAICO] New UCI Rules

         

        If you look at the videos from Europe , they use that fencing that looks like mesh. But that's probably a big expense so I agree with Adam and this should be easy to remedy with snow fencing as that will be adequate for dealing with the intent of the rule.

         

        John Meehan

         


        From: USAICO@yahoogroups. com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Adam Myerson
        Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:48 AM
        To: USAICO
        Subject: Re: [USAICO] New UCI Rules

         

        Think "snow fence." That what's intended here, if you think in terms of
        spirit of the rules.

        You don't want fence with really big, loose holes, because riders stick
        brake hoods in them and get their bikes ripped out from under them. I know.
        I've done it.

        Adam

        on 8/14/08 9:43 AM, Douglas Dobrozsi at ddobrozsi@cinci. rr.com wrote:

        > I think this will have a big impact on cost / design. The fencing I have
        is
        > not 1 cm or smaller square openings.
        > Also - height is not specified for the fence. Surely there needs to be a
        > minimum?
        > High fences with little holes are bad for spectators.
        > Doug Dobrozsi
        >
        >
        > On 8/13/08, Meehan, John <
        href="mailto:john.meehan%40seattlechildrens.org" target="_blank">john.meehan@ seattlechildrens .org> wrote:
        >>
        >> The other major change: fencing/netting is required between any
        portion
        >> of the course that connects to another portionŠperhaps in response in
        order
        >> to avoid the incident that took out Trebon at Nats last year. We can't
        >> simply put the tape up between adjoining riding lanes.
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Certainly important from a safety issue but could escalate course
        >> construction costs and set up time considerably.
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> John Meehan
        >>
        >> Carousel Volkswagen Jingle Cross Rock
        >>
        >>
        >> ------------ --------- ---------
        >>
        >> *From:* USAICO@yahoogroups. com
        [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups. com] *On Behalf
        >> Of * Alan Atwood
        >> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 13, 2008 11:04 AM
        >> *To:* usaico@yahoogroups. com
        >> *Subject:* RE: [USAICO] New UCI Rules
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> The one change that really stood out for me was the requirement on an
        >> ambulance, 4 EMT's, and a doctor on site. The lawyers getting to them
        in
        >> Europe too???
        >>
        >> Alan
        >>
        >> ------------ --------- ---------
        >>
        >>
        >> To: USAICO@yahoogroups. com
        >> From: adam@cycle-smart. com
        >> Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 12:21:37 -0400
        >> Subject: [USAICO] New UCI Rules
        >>
        >> All,
        >>
        >> The new UCI rules were officially published today:
        >>
        >>
        >>
        href="http://uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/getObject.asp?MenuId=MTkzNg&ObjTypeCode=FILE&t" target="_blank">http://uci.ch/ Modules/BUILTIN/ getObject. asp?MenuId= MTkzNg&ObjTypeCode= FILE&t
        >> ype=FILE&id=34593&
        >>
        >> Modifications are in red. Please read closely and be familiar with
        >> everything in this document.
        >>
        >> If the link doesn't work, start at
        target="_blank">www.uci.ch and follow the links for
        >> rules, then cyclo-cross.
        >>
        >> Adam
        >> --
        >> Adam F. Myerson
        >> President, Cycle-Smart, Inc.: Solutions for Cycling
        >> Member, UCI Cyclo-Cross Commission
        >> Member, AIOC-Cross Management Committee
        >> Organizer, Cycle-Smart International Cyclo-Cross
        >> President, Verge New England
        Championship Cyclo-Cross Series
        >>
        >> 32 Ditson St. , #5
        >> Dorchester ,
        w:st="on">MA 02122
        >> (413) 204-3202 Mobile
        >> (617) 288-1460 Office
        >> (512) 681-7043 Fax
        >> 499 12 63 29 Belgium
        >> adam@cycle-smart. com
        >> http://cycle- smart.com
        >> http://cycle- smart.com/ blog
        >> http://timeprocycli ng.com
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any
        attachments, is
        >> for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain
        confidential
        >> and privileged information protected by law. Any unauthorized review,
        use,
        >> disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended
        >> recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all
        copies
        >> of the original message.
        >>


        CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information protected by law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.

         

      • Douglas Dobrozsi
        Tom, Thanks, your experience here is a great help. Please note that the new UCI rules very specifically say openings no bigger than 1 cm X 1 cm. So snow
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 15, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Tom,
           
          Thanks, your experience here is a great help.
           
          Please note that the new UCI rules very specifically say openings no bigger than 1 cm X 1 cm.  So snow fence, woven, whatever - needs to fall within that.  The construction fence I have use at a few places in the past is definitely OUT.
           
          The comments on worlds was helpful perspective for those who were not there.  I noticed that in the 07 worlds there were also TREES right in the middle of a very wide racing lane - and riders were choosing which way to go.
           
          Does anyone have any specific suppliers of woven stuff they can reco?  I have already talked to the folks at world cup supply.
           
          Doug Dobrozsi

           
          On 8/14/08, Tom McDaniel <granoguecross@...> wrote:

           

          I looked at using plastic snow fence a couple of years ago, since there is always a few rolls laying around our construction yard.  . As a course marker or  lane divider it is inherently dangerous,  It works like this: The holes in it are large enough to admit then trap a break hood, front skewer, finger etc, and strong enough to stop the bike instantly.  So if your racers brush against it they are jacked and so is the rider behind them.

           

           The woven polypropylene fencing tolerates momentary contact with the racers bike without catching on or trapping parts of the bike.

           

          The woven stuff is expensive and working out a safe and quick to set up post system is tricky, steel is prohibited and wood takes a dedicated post installer machine that everyone in Belgium seems to have. But is way outside our budgets.

           

           At Granogue we are using a cut down steel T post with a ABS sleeve and safety cap that holds the ¼" poly propylene rope that the fabric fence hangs from.  Then we used a couple thousand zip ties.

           

          Last year was the first time we had the fabric fencing from SRAM and the learning curve was bit steep.  It is a lot more time and effort then step in post and tape.

           

           

          Anyhow the above installs relatively quickly in our local semi rocky soil and removes just as fast using hand tools.

           

          It is a pain to store and move.

           

          To recap:

          Snow fence = Bad

           

           

          Tom  McDaniel

          Granogue Cross

           

           

           

           

           


          From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Meehan, John
          Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 12:05 PM
          To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com


          Subject: RE: [USAICO] New UCI Rules

           

          If you look at the videos from Europe, they use that fencing that looks like mesh. But that's probably a big expense so I agree with Adam and this should be easy to remedy with snow fencing as that will be adequate for dealing with the intent of the rule.

           

          John Meehan

           


          From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adam Myerson
          Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:48 AM
          To: USAICO
          Subject: Re: [USAICO] New UCI Rules

           

          Think "snow fence." That what's intended here, if you think in terms of
          spirit of the rules.

          You don't want fence with really big, loose holes, because riders stick
          brake hoods in them and get their bikes ripped out from under them. I know.
          I've done it.

          Adam

          on 8/14/08 9:43 AM, Douglas Dobrozsi at ddobrozsi@... wrote:

          > I think this will have a big impact on cost / design. The fencing I have is
          > not 1 cm or smaller square openings.
          > Also - height is not specified for the fence. Surely there needs to be a
          > minimum?
          > High fences with little holes are bad for spectators.
          > Doug Dobrozsi
          >
          >
          > On 8/13/08, Meehan, John <john.meehan@...> wrote:
          >>
          >> The other major change: fencing/netting is required between any portion
          >> of the course that connects to another portionŠperhaps in response in order
          >> to avoid the incident that took out Trebon at Nats last year. We can't
          >> simply put the tape up between adjoining riding lanes.
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> Certainly important from a safety issue but could escalate course
          >> construction costs and set up time considerably.
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> John Meehan
          >>
          >> Carousel Volkswagen Jingle Cross Rock
          >>
          >>
          >> ------------------------------
          >>
          >> *From:* USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf
          >> Of *Alan Atwood
          >> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 13, 2008 11:04 AM
          >> *To:* usaico@yahoogroups.com
          >> *Subject:* RE: [USAICO] New UCI Rules
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> The one change that really stood out for me was the requirement on an
          >> ambulance, 4 EMT's, and a doctor on site. The lawyers getting to them in
          >> Europe too???
          >>
          >> Alan
          >>
          >> ------------------------------
          >>
          >>
          >> To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
          >> From: adam@...
          >> Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 12:21:37 -0400
          >> Subject: [USAICO] New UCI Rules
          >>
          >> All,
          >>
          >> The new UCI rules were officially published today:
          >>
          >>
          >> http://uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/getObject.asp?MenuId=MTkzNg&ObjTypeCode=FILE&t
          >> ype=FILE&id=34593&
          >>
          >> Modifications are in red. Please read closely and be familiar with
          >> everything in this document.
          >>
          >> If the link doesn't work, start at www.uci.ch and follow the links for
          >> rules, then cyclo-cross.
          >>
          >> Adam
          >> --
          >> Adam F. Myerson
          >> President, Cycle-Smart, Inc.: Solutions for Cycling
          >> Member, UCI Cyclo-Cross Commission
          >> Member, AIOC-Cross Management Committee
          >> Organizer, Cycle-Smart International Cyclo-Cross
          >> President, Verge New England Championship Cyclo-Cross Series
          >>
          >> 32 Ditson St., #5
          >> Dorchester, MA 02122
          >> (413) 204-3202 Mobile
          >> (617) 288-1460 Office
          >> (512) 681-7043 Fax
          >> 499 12 63 29 Belgium
          >> adam@...
          >> http://cycle-smart.com
          >> http://cycle-smart.com/blog
          >> http://timeprocycling.com
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is
          >> for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential
          >> and privileged information protected by law. Any unauthorized review, use,
          >> disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended
          >> recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies
          >> of the original message.
          >>


          CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information protected by law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.


        • Mitch Graham
          Anybody know a source for those big wood stakes they used to hold up banners with on the USGP courses? ... From: Tom McDaniel
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 15, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Anybody know a source for those big wood stakes they used to hold up banners with on the USGP courses?

            --- On Thu, 8/14/08, Tom McDaniel <granoguecross@...> wrote:
            From: Tom McDaniel <granoguecross@...>
            Subject: RE: [USAICO] New UCI Rules
            To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, August 14, 2008, 11:58 PM

             

            I looked at using plastic snow fence a couple of years ago, since there is always a few rolls laying around our construction yard.  . As a course marker or  lane divider it is inherently dangerous,  It works like this: The holes in it are large enough to admit then trap a break hood, front skewer, finger etc, and strong enough to stop the bike instantly.  So if your racers brush against it they are jacked and so is the rider behind them.

             

             The woven polypropylene fencing tolerates momentary contact with the racers bike without catching on or trapping parts of the bike.

             

            The woven stuff is expensive and working out a safe and quick to set up post system is tricky, steel is prohibited and wood takes a dedicated post installer machine that everyone in Belgium seems to have. But is way outside our budgets.

             

             At Granogue we are using a cut down steel T post with a ABS sleeve and safety cap that holds the ¼” poly propylene rope that the fabric fence hangs from.  Then we used a couple thousand zip ties.

             

            Last year was the first time we had the fabric fencing from SRAM and the learning curve was bit steep.  It is a lot more time and effort then step in post and tape.

             

             

            Anyhow the above installs relatively quickly in our local semi rocky soil and removes just as fast using hand tools.

             

            It is a pain to store and move.

             

            To recap:

            Snow fence = Bad

             

             

            Tom  McDaniel

            Granogue Cross

             

             

             

             

             


            From: USAICO@yahoogroups. com [mailto: USAICO@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Meehan, John
            Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 12:05 PM
            To: USAICO@yahoogroups. com
            Subject: RE: [USAICO] New UCI Rules

             

            If you look at the videos from Europe , they use that fencing that looks like mesh. But that’s probably a big expense so I agree with Adam and this should be easy to remedy with snow fencing as that will be adequate for dealing with the intent of the rule.

             

            John Meehan

             


            From: USAICO@yahoogroups. com [mailto: USAICO@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Adam Myerson
            Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:48 AM
            To: USAICO
            Subject: Re: [USAICO] New UCI Rules

             

            Think "snow fence." That what's intended here, if you think in terms of
            spirit of the rules.

            You don't want fence with really big, loose holes, because riders stick
            brake hoods in them and get their bikes ripped out from under them. I know.
            I've done it.

            Adam

            on 8/14/08 9:43 AM, Douglas Dobrozsi at ddobrozsi@cinci. rr.com wrote:

            > I think this will have a big impact on cost / design. The fencing I have is
            > not 1 cm or smaller square openings.
            > Also - height is not specified for the fence. Surely there needs to be a
            > minimum?
            > High fences with little holes are bad for spectators.
            > Doug Dobrozsi
            >
            >
            > On 8/13/08, Meehan, John <john.meehan@ seattlechildrens .org> wrote:
            >>
            >> The other major change: fencing/netting is required between any portion
            >> of the course that connects to another portionŠperhaps in response in order
            >> to avoid the incident that took out Trebon at Nats last year. We can't
            >> simply put the tape up between adjoining riding lanes.
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> Certainly important from a safety issue but could escalate course
            >> construction costs and set up time considerably.
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> John Meehan
            >>
            >> Carousel Volkswagen Jingle Cross Rock
            >>
            >>
            >> ------------ --------- ---------
            >>
            >> *From:* USAICO@yahoogroups. com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups. com] *On Behalf
            >> Of * Alan Atwood
            >> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 13, 2008 11:04 AM
            >> *To:* usaico@yahoogroups. com
            >> *Subject:* RE: [USAICO] New UCI Rules
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> The one change that really stood out for me was the requirement on an
            >> ambulance, 4 EMT's, and a doctor on site. The lawyers getting to them in
            >> Europe too???
            >>
            >> Alan
            >>
            >> ------------ --------- ---------
            >>
            >>
            >> To: USAICO@yahoogroups. com
            >> From: adam@cycle-smart. com
            >> Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 12:21:37 -0400
            >> Subject: [USAICO] New UCI Rules
            >>
            >> All,
            >>
            >> The new UCI rules were officially published today:
            >>
            >>
            >> http://uci.ch/ Modules/BUILTIN/ getObject. asp?MenuId= MTkzNg&ObjTypeCo de=FILE&t
            >> ype=FILE&id= 34593&
            >>
            >> Modifications are in red. Please read closely and be familiar with
            >> everything in this document.
            >>
            >> If the link doesn't work, start at www.uci.ch and follow the links for
            >> rules, then cyclo-cross.
            >>
            >> Adam
            >> --
            >> Adam F. Myerson
            >> President, Cycle-Smart, Inc.: Solutions for Cycling
            >> Member, UCI Cyclo-Cross Commission
            >> Member, AIOC-Cross Management Committee
            >> Organizer, Cycle-Smart International Cyclo-Cross
            >> President, Verge New England Championship Cyclo-Cross Series
            >>
            >> 32 Ditson St. , #5
            >> Dorchester , MA 02122
            >> (413) 204-3202 Mobile
            >> (617) 288-1460 Office
            >> (512) 681-7043 Fax
            >> 499 12 63 29 Belgium
            >> adam@cycle-smart. com
            >> http://cycle- smart.com
            >> http://cycle- smart.com/ blog
            >> http://timeprocycli ng.com
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is
            >> for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential
            >> and privileged information protected by law. Any unauthorized review, use,
            >> disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended
            >> recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies
            >> of the original message.
            >>


            CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information protected by law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.


          • Myles Romanow
            If they were like the worlds course ones, I would say either local lumberyard or fencing company. The ones in treviso were un painted, unfinished, just
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 15, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              If they were like the worlds course ones, I would say either local lumberyard or fencing company.  The ones in treviso were un painted, unfinished, just straight off the back of a truck..  With the powered auger it's a little faster to install, then they had a slide hammer to bash it in the rest of the way.  Still very time consuming.  But definitely sturdy.  I spent most of two days leaning on the ones uphill and they definitely weren't moving in a hurry. 
               
              Come to think of it.. not sure how uninstalling them would go... those things may have been much much longer than originally thought.
               
              M

              On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 10:31 AM, Mitch Graham <mitch_biowheels@...> wrote:

              Anybody know a source for those big wood stakes they used to hold up banners with on the USGP courses?

              --- On Thu, 8/14/08, Tom McDaniel <granoguecross@...> wrote:
              From: Tom McDaniel <granoguecross@...>

              Subject: RE: [USAICO] New UCI Rules
              To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Thursday, August 14, 2008, 11:58 PM

               

              I looked at using plastic snow fence a couple of years ago, since there is always a few rolls laying around our construction yard.  . As a course marker or  lane divider it is inherently dangerous,  It works like this: The holes in it are large enough to admit then trap a break hood, front skewer, finger etc, and strong enough to stop the bike instantly.  So if your racers brush against it they are jacked and so is the rider behind them.

               

               The woven polypropylene fencing tolerates momentary contact with the racers bike without catching on or trapping parts of the bike.

               

              The woven stuff is expensive and working out a safe and quick to set up post system is tricky, steel is prohibited and wood takes a dedicated post installer machine that everyone in Belgium seems to have. But is way outside our budgets.

               

               At Granogue we are using a cut down steel T post with a ABS sleeve and safety cap that holds the ¼" poly propylene rope that the fabric fence hangs from.  Then we used a couple thousand zip ties.

               

              Last year was the first time we had the fabric fencing from SRAM and the learning curve was bit steep.  It is a lot more time and effort then step in post and tape.

               

               

              Anyhow the above installs relatively quickly in our local semi rocky soil and removes just as fast using hand tools.

               

              It is a pain to store and move.

               

              To recap:

              Snow fence = Bad

               

               

              Tom  McDaniel

              Granogue Cross

               

               

               

               

               


              From: USAICO@yahoogroups. com [mailto: USAICO@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Meehan, John
              Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 12:05 PM
              To: USAICO@yahoogroups. com
              Subject: RE: [USAICO] New UCI Rules

               

              If you look at the videos from Europe , they use that fencing that looks like mesh. But that's probably a big expense so I agree with Adam and this should be easy to remedy with snow fencing as that will be adequate for dealing with the intent of the rule.

               

              John Meehan

               


              From: USAICO@yahoogroups. com [mailto: USAICO@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Adam Myerson
              Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:48 AM
              To: USAICO
              Subject: Re: [USAICO] New UCI Rules

               

              Think "snow fence." That what's intended here, if you think in terms of
              spirit of the rules.

              You don't want fence with really big, loose holes, because riders stick
              brake hoods in them and get their bikes ripped out from under them. I know.
              I've done it.

              Adam

              on 8/14/08 9:43 AM, Douglas Dobrozsi at ddobrozsi@cinci. rr.com wrote:

              > I think this will have a big impact on cost / design. The fencing I have is
              > not 1 cm or smaller square openings.
              > Also - height is not specified for the fence. Surely there needs to be a
              > minimum?
              > High fences with little holes are bad for spectators.
              > Doug Dobrozsi
              >
              >
              > On 8/13/08, Meehan, John <john.meehan@ seattlechildrens .org> wrote:
              >>
              >> The other major change: fencing/netting is required between any portion
              >> of the course that connects to another portionŠperhaps in response in order
              >> to avoid the incident that took out Trebon at Nats last year. We can't
              >> simply put the tape up between adjoining riding lanes.
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> Certainly important from a safety issue but could escalate course
              >> construction costs and set up time considerably.
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> John Meehan
              >>
              >> Carousel Volkswagen Jingle Cross Rock
              >>
              >>
              >> ------------ --------- ---------
              >>
              >> *From:* USAICO@yahoogroups. com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups. com] *On Behalf
              >> Of * Alan Atwood
              >> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 13, 2008 11:04 AM
              >> *To:* usaico@yahoogroups. com
              >> *Subject:* RE: [USAICO] New UCI Rules
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> The one change that really stood out for me was the requirement on an
              >> ambulance, 4 EMT's, and a doctor on site. The lawyers getting to them in
              >> Europe too???
              >>
              >> Alan
              >>
              >> ------------ --------- ---------
              >>
              >>
              >> To: USAICO@yahoogroups. com
              >> From: adam@cycle-smart. com
              >> Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 12:21:37 -0400
              >> Subject: [USAICO] New UCI Rules
              >>
              >> All,
              >>
              >> The new UCI rules were officially published today:
              >>
              >>
              >> http://uci.ch/ Modules/BUILTIN/ getObject. asp?MenuId= MTkzNg&ObjTypeCo de=FILE&t

              >> ype=FILE&id= 34593&
              >>
              >> Modifications are in red. Please read closely and be familiar with
              >> everything in this document.
              >>
              >> If the link doesn't work, start at www.uci.ch and follow the links for
              >> rules, then cyclo-cross.
              >>
              >> Adam
              >> --
              >> Adam F. Myerson
              >> President, Cycle-Smart, Inc.: Solutions for Cycling
              >> Member, UCI Cyclo-Cross Commission
              >> Member, AIOC-Cross Management Committee
              >> Organizer, Cycle-Smart International Cyclo-Cross
              >> President, Verge New England Championship Cyclo-Cross Series
              >>
              >> 32 Ditson St. , #5
              >> Dorchester , MA 02122
              >> (413) 204-3202 Mobile
              >> (617) 288-1460 Office
              >> (512) 681-7043 Fax
              >> 499 12 63 29 Belgium
              >> adam@cycle-smart. com
              >> http://cycle- smart.com
              >> http://cycle- smart.com/ blog
              >> http://timeprocycli ng.com

              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is
              >> for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential
              >> and privileged information protected by law. Any unauthorized review, use,
              >> disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended
              >> recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies
              >> of the original message.
              >>


              CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information protected by law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.



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