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Re: Gloucester USGP dates

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  • finasport1
    Dear Adam: Thanks for your mail. As the newly appointed US Representative for Cross to the UCI I think you should remain neutral and supportive to all here.
    Message 1 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear Adam:

      Thanks for your mail. As the newly appointed US Representative for
      Cross to the UCI I think you should remain neutral and supportive to
      all here. I do not enjoy hearing you criticize the USGP both
      privately and publicly all of the time, instead of directly to us or
      me in a reasonable and professional manner. We are trying hard to
      provide world class racing in the US. Between Geoff Proctor and
      myself we have over 15 years of experience managing and, in Geoff's
      case racing, at a World Cup and World Championship level. Not that
      we are not above criticism, we are harsher on ourselves than anyone
      else could be.

      The recent results of Ryan Trebon are proof that what we are doing is
      succeeding. He left the US after winning only 2 of the 4 USGPs he
      raced and then was able to finish 9th in a UCI Cat 1 in Belgium this
      past weekend. The class of US racing is getting better and better,
      as you stated in your DVD "Transition," at a USGP last season.

      I respect what each and every promoter is undertaking to organize a
      race and we can go back in time, even you Adam, and thank guys like
      Clark Natwick and Lyle Fulkerson, for paving our way for us. Those
      guys really did the hardest work and put thier butts on the line for
      the sport.

      What the USGP needs is the support and patience of the cross
      community to understand that what we are trying to do is
      complicated. We are always playing with fire and there is no way to
      do that in a communist open forum. If we do that, the whole thing
      will certainly collapse. For instance, it was very hard to make a
      decision to go to California and not to Highland Park. Craig
      McCallan and Steve Litvin were nothing but professional to work with
      and I think we still have a great relationship. They ran a great
      race and I would go back there in a heartbeat with a USGP. That
      said, from a national perspective we thought it would be a good idea
      to try to have races in the Northern California. Now we cannot just
      pick one, we have to find a way to get 2. The thinking behind that
      when the series was founded in a conversation between myself and
      Charles Pelkey at Monopoli, Italy, was that we need to make it
      reasonable for riders to travel. Especially the Juniors and U 23,
      but also those like Anne Knapp, who besides being the best woman in
      US Cross History, works for a living and cannot fly around the
      country each week.

      So the point there is that we need to deal with peoples feelings and
      emotions and this cannot be done in a public forum. Would you like
      to get fired from a job in front of all your peers? Even if you were
      great at what you do. But the company changed directions. Well
      that is how we feel every day. Someone, will always damn us because
      we cannot go everywhere and from the start, we thought 6 races over 3
      weekends is enough.

      So that is just number one on a long list of challenges. We are
      taking into account the thought of each and every promoter and trying
      to meld them together into a series. A huge challenge that Lyle
      Fulkerson can probably attest to. And as a National Series, we are
      striving to step up from the status of a great US race to that which
      attracts more people to our sport to spectate. Cross is the best
      discipline in Cycling for spectators. Maybe track can also be
      interesting, I do not really know. But we are taking into account
      things outside that might affect us, like other pro sports and other
      local activities around each race. I can only say that I think it
      is far more complicated than meets the eye.

      While I also would like to be organized 2 years in advance it is also
      not really reasonable for us with such a short history. Remember,
      that the New England Series and the MAC have a head start. We are
      growing and learning. And People like Tom Simpson are not going to
      commit to a race or a date until they have at least had one year
      under thier belt with a USGP. Also, you know yourself from your
      experience in Worcester that it is hard to commit to a race so
      early. Remember that your Worcester race was on the USGP calender
      until you cancelled for lack of funding. To avoid the trials and
      tribultations of that, we are doing our best to make sure we have
      solid promoters. We do not want to have Super Cup surprises in
      Septmeber. We have done everything we can to bend over backwards
      with the USGP promoters to not push them until we at least understand
      them and their challenges. This includes being patient to see what
      they do with their races. After 2 seasons we now think that we can
      start to offer each and every promoter more and more in the way of
      best practices we have learned from the races around the country as
      well as our European experience.

      Ok, enough I think, as Myles said, that is my 2 cents. I appreciate
      everyones effort to get this done and make it work. We would like to
      do our part and we hope that at least some of you have gotten benefit
      out of the USGP existing. Such as increased interest, or as Myles
      mentioned increased racers at a weekend before or after a USGP in the
      area.

      Sincerely Your

      Bruce



      --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, Adam Hodges Myerson <adam@c...> wrote:
      >
      > Organizers,
      >
      > I think it's important to think back to why this group of US UCI
      cyclo-cross
      > organizers exists, and why there's a national cyclo-cross racing
      calendar
      > with healthy, stable, individual races across the country.
      Essentially, it
      > was a reaction to the lack of organization of the national series
      at the
      > time. The rest of us were organized, had our dates set a year in
      advance
      > with no problem, and were working together. As late as September,
      the bomb
      > of the SuperCup was regularly dropped on us, which left everyone
      scrambling
      > to get out of the way to save their own races.
      >
      > When the SuperCup went away, what was left? Again, a healthy,
      stable, NRC of
      > individual race organizers across the country. High level 'cross
      didn't die,
      > it blossomed with the room it head above its head.
      >
      > For the group of US organizers at this point, it's not reasonable
      for the
      > USGP to operate in a vacuum or to assume that all the other US UCI
      > organizers should have to plan around it while it operates on a
      different
      > timetable than the rest of us. The USGP only exists because of the
      work of
      > individual promoters who were already organizing successful events.
      How is
      > it that we find ourselves once again in the situation where every
      race in
      > the country has its dates set other than the national series, when
      it should
      > be the other way around?
      >
      > The fact that we need to know our dates more than a year in advance
      is not a
      > negative; it's a reflection of the kind of organization necessary to
      > organize a quality, stable event that's rooted and has support in
      its
      > community and the racing scene. Races should have stability,
      history, and
      > tradition, or should be working towards that. Yearly date changes
      disrupt
      > that, and have a ripple effect that disrupts the entire calendar.
      If the
      > USGP is supposed to set the standard, then it should be organized
      better,
      > and sooner, than all of the other US races.
      >
      > If the USGP needs to reconsider its dates, it needs to do so in an
      open way
      > that involves discussion with ALL the events on the NRC. It can't
      operate as
      > a wrecking ball like the SuperCup did. The scene is much too
      unified now to
      > allow that to take place.
      >
      > We've seen that the NW races have committed to their dates. We
      haven't heard
      > from California, but we have heard from Bruce that there needs to be
      > geographical flow to the GP schedule. At the same time, we hear that
      > Gloucester is getting pressured to go earlier.
      >
      > Logically, if the NW is set then I would expect the second race to
      be in CA,
      > and the finals to be in Gloucester. However, since Gloucester has
      to go
      > early, you'd expect it to perhaps be the first race in the series.
      >
      > My expectation would be that the GP would set it's dates, and
      consider
      > moving it's races around on those dates, so as not to disrupt the
      schedule
      > or operate at the expense of other race organizers who are
      announcing their
      > dates in good faith.
      >
      > I'm sympathetic to the pressure Gloucester is under right now. But
      let's say
      > they do move forward 2 weeks, to the 14/15 of October. First, that
      could be
      > possible, and they could swap with New Gloucester, ME for those
      dates and
      > maintain the flow of the calendar. But we've heard no discussion to
      that
      > effect yet, and we need to if this is a possible scenario.
      >
      > Second, moving forward will not address the risk of damage to the
      course you
      > wish to avoid. Anyone who was at Maine this year on the weekend
      Gloucester
      > is talking about moving to remembers it as the muddiest race we've
      had all
      > season so far. We had a week of rain in New England that didn't end
      until
      > Sunday. What would have happened if Gloucester was on that date
      this year?
      > Would you have to move to September?
      >
      > Everyone on this list, and every cyclo-cross rider in the US,
      supports and
      > wants to see a successful USGP, myself included. We need BOTH a
      national
      > racing calendar of events week in and week out, as well as a
      national series
      > that brings all the best riders together for a few select races.
      Every
      > organizer on this list is willing to be flexible, open, and
      cooperative with
      > the USGP to make sure that it's a success. But it needs to go both
      ways, and
      > we all need to be part of that process if it's going to go forward
      in a
      > successful way.
      >
      > Mike's e-mail was reasonable, in my opinion, and reflected what I
      think many
      > of us are feeling. We're all ready to go, and none of us want to
      have our
      > seats kicked out from under us.
      >
      > So Bruce, what I think we all need to hear is, what exactly are your
      > desires, what are your limiters, and what are the possible
      scenarios?
      >
      > Adam
      >
      >
      > on 11/30/05 3:33 PM, finasport1 at finasport@a... wrote:
      >
      > > Dear Mike.
      > >
      > > I appreciate the situation and we are doing our best to get this
      > > clarified. As you read from Paul, Gloucester does have issues
      with
      > > the date. We are also having issues, largely due to the fact that
      > > the UCI needs dates set before the season even ends. That is
      > > challenging to say the least. We would like to have the same
      dates
      > > every year, but as is the case for 2006 it looks like that might
      not
      > > be possible. There are so many different scenarios floating right
      > > now that it is not even reasonable to explain them all.
      > >
      > > Other complaints that we faced this year that may or may not be
      > > solvable are that teams such as TIAA CREF and last season, Maxxis
      did
      > > not appreciate that we were going coast to coast to coast this
      > > season. They want their full support vehicles there and were
      unable
      > > to have that since it involved that travel.
      > >
      > > Not that this matters either, but from what I have heard there
      will
      > > be a change in the UCI points counting system that may make it
      less
      > > reasonable to have UCI races everywhere. Adam will have to fill
      us
      > > in. This may impact the decisions of promoters in the future but
      I
      > > am not clear as to how yet.
      > >
      > > Mike, I wish I could be more clear but until it is done, it is not
      > > done. I am sorry for that. We will do our best.
      > >
      > > Bruce
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hebe" <mhebe@e...> wrote:
      > >>
      > >> Paul, Bruce, Geoff and my fellow UCI promoters
      > >> I understand the desire to set a distinct date for an East Coast
      > > USGP, that carries on, in case Gloucester may not be the choice at
      > > some point. My concern as a promoter and as the Director of the
      MAC
      > > series is that a move in dates for 2006 will make both the New
      > > England and the Mid-Atlantic UCI series revert back to the drawing
      > > board, as it relates to scheduling.
      > >> The impact of a date change from the last weekend in October will
      > > directly impact no less than eight-ten other UCI events. As it
      stands
      > > now there are ZERO date conflicts for the UCI races on the East
      > > Coast, sixteen in total. The NECCS & MAC series have worked
      > > diligently to ensure this, while keeping dates open for Michigan &
      > > NC. As promoters we have all went to great lengths to solidify our
      > > dates for 2006, even earlier this year.
      > >> Unless there is a date issue with the Gloucester venue, or
      > > Gloucester will not be the USGP venue, I respectfully request
      that NO
      > > change in date be made for 2006. Any change in date could be
      > > implemented in 2007. We are too close to the NATS promoter's
      meeting
      > > to ask promoters to go back to their respective venues and request
      > > date changes.
      > >> Thank you in advance for your consideration.
      > >> Regards,
      > >> Mike Hebe
      > >> Race Director Lower Allen Classic UCI C2
      > >> Director VERGE Mid-Atlantic Cyclocross series
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • Tom McDaniel
      Hi Bruce I for one am glad you have taken on the USGP. Congratulations on another successful year. That said we do need dates, and places for the USGP next
      Message 2 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Bruce

        I for one am glad you have taken on the USGP. Congratulations on another
        successful year.

        That said we do need dates, and places for the USGP next year and we need
        them now. Your series is the 400 pound gorilla that affects every other UCI
        race in the USA. So far doing it on this list has been and is the best way
        to get all the calendars together.

        I would hazard a guess that the people in this forum are the only people on
        the planet who have any ideal how complicated and difficult scheduling the
        USGP is. It won't get any easier next year either because the sport is still
        growing in a nice steady way.

        Anyhow we don't have to be happy with your dates we just need them ASAP.
        Can you get us at least a tentative schedule with alternates by Monday Dec
        5th. That gives us 6 days before meeting at Natz to react.

        Adam in my view is acting as a neutral broker in asking/begging you for
        dates.


        Tom McDaniel
        Granogue Cross
















        -----Original Message-----
        From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        finasport1
        Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 5:23 AM
        To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates

        Dear Adam:

        Thanks for your mail. As the newly appointed US Representative for
        Cross to the UCI I think you should remain neutral and supportive to
        all here. I do not enjoy hearing you criticize the USGP both
        privately and publicly all of the time, instead of directly to us or
        me in a reasonable and professional manner. We are trying hard to
        provide world class racing in the US. Between Geoff Proctor and
        myself we have over 15 years of experience managing and, in Geoff's
        case racing, at a World Cup and World Championship level. Not that
        we are not above criticism, we are harsher on ourselves than anyone
        else could be.

        The recent results of Ryan Trebon are proof that what we are doing is
        succeeding. He left the US after winning only 2 of the 4 USGPs he
        raced and then was able to finish 9th in a UCI Cat 1 in Belgium this
        past weekend. The class of US racing is getting better and better,
        as you stated in your DVD "Transition," at a USGP last season.

        I respect what each and every promoter is undertaking to organize a
        race and we can go back in time, even you Adam, and thank guys like
        Clark Natwick and Lyle Fulkerson, for paving our way for us. Those
        guys really did the hardest work and put thier butts on the line for
        the sport.

        What the USGP needs is the support and patience of the cross
        community to understand that what we are trying to do is
        complicated. We are always playing with fire and there is no way to
        do that in a communist open forum. If we do that, the whole thing
        will certainly collapse. For instance, it was very hard to make a
        decision to go to California and not to Highland Park. Craig
        McCallan and Steve Litvin were nothing but professional to work with
        and I think we still have a great relationship. They ran a great
        race and I would go back there in a heartbeat with a USGP. That
        said, from a national perspective we thought it would be a good idea
        to try to have races in the Northern California. Now we cannot just
        pick one, we have to find a way to get 2. The thinking behind that
        when the series was founded in a conversation between myself and
        Charles Pelkey at Monopoli, Italy, was that we need to make it
        reasonable for riders to travel. Especially the Juniors and U 23,
        but also those like Anne Knapp, who besides being the best woman in
        US Cross History, works for a living and cannot fly around the
        country each week.

        So the point there is that we need to deal with peoples feelings and
        emotions and this cannot be done in a public forum. Would you like
        to get fired from a job in front of all your peers? Even if you were
        great at what you do. But the company changed directions. Well
        that is how we feel every day. Someone, will always damn us because
        we cannot go everywhere and from the start, we thought 6 races over 3
        weekends is enough.

        So that is just number one on a long list of challenges. We are
        taking into account the thought of each and every promoter and trying
        to meld them together into a series. A huge challenge that Lyle
        Fulkerson can probably attest to. And as a National Series, we are
        striving to step up from the status of a great US race to that which
        attracts more people to our sport to spectate. Cross is the best
        discipline in Cycling for spectators. Maybe track can also be
        interesting, I do not really know. But we are taking into account
        things outside that might affect us, like other pro sports and other
        local activities around each race. I can only say that I think it
        is far more complicated than meets the eye.

        While I also would like to be organized 2 years in advance it is also
        not really reasonable for us with such a short history. Remember,
        that the New England Series and the MAC have a head start. We are
        growing and learning. And People like Tom Simpson are not going to
        commit to a race or a date until they have at least had one year
        under thier belt with a USGP. Also, you know yourself from your
        experience in Worcester that it is hard to commit to a race so
        early. Remember that your Worcester race was on the USGP calender
        until you cancelled for lack of funding. To avoid the trials and
        tribultations of that, we are doing our best to make sure we have
        solid promoters. We do not want to have Super Cup surprises in
        Septmeber. We have done everything we can to bend over backwards
        with the USGP promoters to not push them until we at least understand
        them and their challenges. This includes being patient to see what
        they do with their races. After 2 seasons we now think that we can
        start to offer each and every promoter more and more in the way of
        best practices we have learned from the races around the country as
        well as our European experience.

        Ok, enough I think, as Myles said, that is my 2 cents. I appreciate
        everyones effort to get this done and make it work. We would like to
        do our part and we hope that at least some of you have gotten benefit
        out of the USGP existing. Such as increased interest, or as Myles
        mentioned increased racers at a weekend before or after a USGP in the
        area.

        Sincerely Your

        Bruce



        --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, Adam Hodges Myerson <adam@c...> wrote:
        >
        > Organizers,
        >
        > I think it's important to think back to why this group of US UCI
        cyclo-cross
        > organizers exists, and why there's a national cyclo-cross racing
        calendar
        > with healthy, stable, individual races across the country.
        Essentially, it
        > was a reaction to the lack of organization of the national series
        at the
        > time. The rest of us were organized, had our dates set a year in
        advance
        > with no problem, and were working together. As late as September,
        the bomb
        > of the SuperCup was regularly dropped on us, which left everyone
        scrambling
        > to get out of the way to save their own races.
        >
        > When the SuperCup went away, what was left? Again, a healthy,
        stable, NRC of
        > individual race organizers across the country. High level 'cross
        didn't die,
        > it blossomed with the room it head above its head.
        >
        > For the group of US organizers at this point, it's not reasonable
        for the
        > USGP to operate in a vacuum or to assume that all the other US UCI
        > organizers should have to plan around it while it operates on a
        different
        > timetable than the rest of us. The USGP only exists because of the
        work of
        > individual promoters who were already organizing successful events.
        How is
        > it that we find ourselves once again in the situation where every
        race in
        > the country has its dates set other than the national series, when
        it should
        > be the other way around?
        >
        > The fact that we need to know our dates more than a year in advance
        is not a
        > negative; it's a reflection of the kind of organization necessary to
        > organize a quality, stable event that's rooted and has support in
        its
        > community and the racing scene. Races should have stability,
        history, and
        > tradition, or should be working towards that. Yearly date changes
        disrupt
        > that, and have a ripple effect that disrupts the entire calendar.
        If the
        > USGP is supposed to set the standard, then it should be organized
        better,
        > and sooner, than all of the other US races.
        >
        > If the USGP needs to reconsider its dates, it needs to do so in an
        open way
        > that involves discussion with ALL the events on the NRC. It can't
        operate as
        > a wrecking ball like the SuperCup did. The scene is much too
        unified now to
        > allow that to take place.
        >
        > We've seen that the NW races have committed to their dates. We
        haven't heard
        > from California, but we have heard from Bruce that there needs to be
        > geographical flow to the GP schedule. At the same time, we hear that
        > Gloucester is getting pressured to go earlier.
        >
        > Logically, if the NW is set then I would expect the second race to
        be in CA,
        > and the finals to be in Gloucester. However, since Gloucester has
        to go
        > early, you'd expect it to perhaps be the first race in the series.
        >
        > My expectation would be that the GP would set it's dates, and
        consider
        > moving it's races around on those dates, so as not to disrupt the
        schedule
        > or operate at the expense of other race organizers who are
        announcing their
        > dates in good faith.
        >
        > I'm sympathetic to the pressure Gloucester is under right now. But
        let's say
        > they do move forward 2 weeks, to the 14/15 of October. First, that
        could be
        > possible, and they could swap with New Gloucester, ME for those
        dates and
        > maintain the flow of the calendar. But we've heard no discussion to
        that
        > effect yet, and we need to if this is a possible scenario.
        >
        > Second, moving forward will not address the risk of damage to the
        course you
        > wish to avoid. Anyone who was at Maine this year on the weekend
        Gloucester
        > is talking about moving to remembers it as the muddiest race we've
        had all
        > season so far. We had a week of rain in New England that didn't end
        until
        > Sunday. What would have happened if Gloucester was on that date
        this year?
        > Would you have to move to September?
        >
        > Everyone on this list, and every cyclo-cross rider in the US,
        supports and
        > wants to see a successful USGP, myself included. We need BOTH a
        national
        > racing calendar of events week in and week out, as well as a
        national series
        > that brings all the best riders together for a few select races.
        Every
        > organizer on this list is willing to be flexible, open, and
        cooperative with
        > the USGP to make sure that it's a success. But it needs to go both
        ways, and
        > we all need to be part of that process if it's going to go forward
        in a
        > successful way.
        >
        > Mike's e-mail was reasonable, in my opinion, and reflected what I
        think many
        > of us are feeling. We're all ready to go, and none of us want to
        have our
        > seats kicked out from under us.
        >
        > So Bruce, what I think we all need to hear is, what exactly are your
        > desires, what are your limiters, and what are the possible
        scenarios?
        >
        > Adam
        >
        >
        > on 11/30/05 3:33 PM, finasport1 at finasport@a... wrote:
        >
        > > Dear Mike.
        > >
        > > I appreciate the situation and we are doing our best to get this
        > > clarified. As you read from Paul, Gloucester does have issues
        with
        > > the date. We are also having issues, largely due to the fact that
        > > the UCI needs dates set before the season even ends. That is
        > > challenging to say the least. We would like to have the same
        dates
        > > every year, but as is the case for 2006 it looks like that might
        not
        > > be possible. There are so many different scenarios floating right
        > > now that it is not even reasonable to explain them all.
        > >
        > > Other complaints that we faced this year that may or may not be
        > > solvable are that teams such as TIAA CREF and last season, Maxxis
        did
        > > not appreciate that we were going coast to coast to coast this
        > > season. They want their full support vehicles there and were
        unable
        > > to have that since it involved that travel.
        > >
        > > Not that this matters either, but from what I have heard there
        will
        > > be a change in the UCI points counting system that may make it
        less
        > > reasonable to have UCI races everywhere. Adam will have to fill
        us
        > > in. This may impact the decisions of promoters in the future but
        I
        > > am not clear as to how yet.
        > >
        > > Mike, I wish I could be more clear but until it is done, it is not
        > > done. I am sorry for that. We will do our best.
        > >
        > > Bruce
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hebe" <mhebe@e...> wrote:
        > >>
        > >> Paul, Bruce, Geoff and my fellow UCI promoters
        > >> I understand the desire to set a distinct date for an East Coast
        > > USGP, that carries on, in case Gloucester may not be the choice at
        > > some point. My concern as a promoter and as the Director of the
        MAC
        > > series is that a move in dates for 2006 will make both the New
        > > England and the Mid-Atlantic UCI series revert back to the drawing
        > > board, as it relates to scheduling.
        > >> The impact of a date change from the last weekend in October will
        > > directly impact no less than eight-ten other UCI events. As it
        stands
        > > now there are ZERO date conflicts for the UCI races on the East
        > > Coast, sixteen in total. The NECCS & MAC series have worked
        > > diligently to ensure this, while keeping dates open for Michigan &
        > > NC. As promoters we have all went to great lengths to solidify our
        > > dates for 2006, even earlier this year.
        > >> Unless there is a date issue with the Gloucester venue, or
        > > Gloucester will not be the USGP venue, I respectfully request
        that NO
        > > change in date be made for 2006. Any change in date could be
        > > implemented in 2007. We are too close to the NATS promoter's
        meeting
        > > to ask promoters to go back to their respective venues and request
        > > date changes.
        > >> Thank you in advance for your consideration.
        > >> Regards,
        > >> Mike Hebe
        > >> Race Director Lower Allen Classic UCI C2
        > >> Director VERGE Mid-Atlantic Cyclocross series
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >








        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Adam Hodges Myerson
        Bruce, I have never said anything on this list, or to anyone in private conversation, that I have not also said to you personally, and in a reasonable and
        Message 3 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
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          Bruce,

          I have never said anything on this list, or to anyone in private
          conversation, that I have not also said to you personally, and in a
          reasonable and professional manner.

          I have also not held you to a different standard than I hold myself and
          every other organizer on this list, when it could be argued that you should,
          in fact, be held to a higher standard.

          I stated clearly that I believe in the GP, I support it, and I want it to
          succeed. You were the one who stepped up and took on the work that many of
          us had only been talking about, and the work you, Paul, and Geoff have done
          is appreciated by all of us. You will get support from every organizer on
          this list, provided the GP doesn't happen at their expense.

          I think Tom's e-mail summed things up very well, and so I ask again:

          What exactly are your desires, what are your limiters, and what are the
          possible scenarios?

          Adam

          on 12/1/05 5:23 AM, finasport1 at finasport@... wrote:

          > Dear Adam:
          >
          > Thanks for your mail. As the newly appointed US Representative for
          > Cross to the UCI I think you should remain neutral and supportive to
          > all here. I do not enjoy hearing you criticize the USGP both
          > privately and publicly all of the time, instead of directly to us or
          > me in a reasonable and professional manner. We are trying hard to
          > provide world class racing in the US. Between Geoff Proctor and
          > myself we have over 15 years of experience managing and, in Geoff's
          > case racing, at a World Cup and World Championship level. Not that
          > we are not above criticism, we are harsher on ourselves than anyone
          > else could be.
          >
          > The recent results of Ryan Trebon are proof that what we are doing is
          > succeeding. He left the US after winning only 2 of the 4 USGPs he
          > raced and then was able to finish 9th in a UCI Cat 1 in Belgium this
          > past weekend. The class of US racing is getting better and better,
          > as you stated in your DVD "Transition," at a USGP last season.
          >
          > I respect what each and every promoter is undertaking to organize a
          > race and we can go back in time, even you Adam, and thank guys like
          > Clark Natwick and Lyle Fulkerson, for paving our way for us. Those
          > guys really did the hardest work and put thier butts on the line for
          > the sport.
          >
          > What the USGP needs is the support and patience of the cross
          > community to understand that what we are trying to do is
          > complicated. We are always playing with fire and there is no way to
          > do that in a communist open forum. If we do that, the whole thing
          > will certainly collapse. For instance, it was very hard to make a
          > decision to go to California and not to Highland Park. Craig
          > McCallan and Steve Litvin were nothing but professional to work with
          > and I think we still have a great relationship. They ran a great
          > race and I would go back there in a heartbeat with a USGP. That
          > said, from a national perspective we thought it would be a good idea
          > to try to have races in the Northern California. Now we cannot just
          > pick one, we have to find a way to get 2. The thinking behind that
          > when the series was founded in a conversation between myself and
          > Charles Pelkey at Monopoli, Italy, was that we need to make it
          > reasonable for riders to travel. Especially the Juniors and U 23,
          > but also those like Anne Knapp, who besides being the best woman in
          > US Cross History, works for a living and cannot fly around the
          > country each week.
          >
          > So the point there is that we need to deal with peoples feelings and
          > emotions and this cannot be done in a public forum. Would you like
          > to get fired from a job in front of all your peers? Even if you were
          > great at what you do. But the company changed directions. Well
          > that is how we feel every day. Someone, will always damn us because
          > we cannot go everywhere and from the start, we thought 6 races over 3
          > weekends is enough.
          >
          > So that is just number one on a long list of challenges. We are
          > taking into account the thought of each and every promoter and trying
          > to meld them together into a series. A huge challenge that Lyle
          > Fulkerson can probably attest to. And as a National Series, we are
          > striving to step up from the status of a great US race to that which
          > attracts more people to our sport to spectate. Cross is the best
          > discipline in Cycling for spectators. Maybe track can also be
          > interesting, I do not really know. But we are taking into account
          > things outside that might affect us, like other pro sports and other
          > local activities around each race. I can only say that I think it
          > is far more complicated than meets the eye.
          >
          > While I also would like to be organized 2 years in advance it is also
          > not really reasonable for us with such a short history. Remember,
          > that the New England Series and the MAC have a head start. We are
          > growing and learning. And People like Tom Simpson are not going to
          > commit to a race or a date until they have at least had one year
          > under thier belt with a USGP. Also, you know yourself from your
          > experience in Worcester that it is hard to commit to a race so
          > early. Remember that your Worcester race was on the USGP calender
          > until you cancelled for lack of funding. To avoid the trials and
          > tribultations of that, we are doing our best to make sure we have
          > solid promoters. We do not want to have Super Cup surprises in
          > Septmeber. We have done everything we can to bend over backwards
          > with the USGP promoters to not push them until we at least understand
          > them and their challenges. This includes being patient to see what
          > they do with their races. After 2 seasons we now think that we can
          > start to offer each and every promoter more and more in the way of
          > best practices we have learned from the races around the country as
          > well as our European experience.
          >
          > Ok, enough I think, as Myles said, that is my 2 cents. I appreciate
          > everyones effort to get this done and make it work. We would like to
          > do our part and we hope that at least some of you have gotten benefit
          > out of the USGP existing. Such as increased interest, or as Myles
          > mentioned increased racers at a weekend before or after a USGP in the
          > area.
          >
          > Sincerely Your
          >
          > Bruce
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, Adam Hodges Myerson <adam@c...> wrote:
          >>
          >> Organizers,
          >>
          >> I think it's important to think back to why this group of US UCI
          > cyclo-cross
          >> organizers exists, and why there's a national cyclo-cross racing
          > calendar
          >> with healthy, stable, individual races across the country.
          > Essentially, it
          >> was a reaction to the lack of organization of the national series
          > at the
          >> time. The rest of us were organized, had our dates set a year in
          > advance
          >> with no problem, and were working together. As late as September,
          > the bomb
          >> of the SuperCup was regularly dropped on us, which left everyone
          > scrambling
          >> to get out of the way to save their own races.
          >>
          >> When the SuperCup went away, what was left? Again, a healthy,
          > stable, NRC of
          >> individual race organizers across the country. High level 'cross
          > didn't die,
          >> it blossomed with the room it head above its head.
          >>
          >> For the group of US organizers at this point, it's not reasonable
          > for the
          >> USGP to operate in a vacuum or to assume that all the other US UCI
          >> organizers should have to plan around it while it operates on a
          > different
          >> timetable than the rest of us. The USGP only exists because of the
          > work of
          >> individual promoters who were already organizing successful events.
          > How is
          >> it that we find ourselves once again in the situation where every
          > race in
          >> the country has its dates set other than the national series, when
          > it should
          >> be the other way around?
          >>
          >> The fact that we need to know our dates more than a year in advance
          > is not a
          >> negative; it's a reflection of the kind of organization necessary to
          >> organize a quality, stable event that's rooted and has support in
          > its
          >> community and the racing scene. Races should have stability,
          > history, and
          >> tradition, or should be working towards that. Yearly date changes
          > disrupt
          >> that, and have a ripple effect that disrupts the entire calendar.
          > If the
          >> USGP is supposed to set the standard, then it should be organized
          > better,
          >> and sooner, than all of the other US races.
          >>
          >> If the USGP needs to reconsider its dates, it needs to do so in an
          > open way
          >> that involves discussion with ALL the events on the NRC. It can't
          > operate as
          >> a wrecking ball like the SuperCup did. The scene is much too
          > unified now to
          >> allow that to take place.
          >>
          >> We've seen that the NW races have committed to their dates. We
          > haven't heard
          >> from California, but we have heard from Bruce that there needs to be
          >> geographical flow to the GP schedule. At the same time, we hear that
          >> Gloucester is getting pressured to go earlier.
          >>
          >> Logically, if the NW is set then I would expect the second race to
          > be in CA,
          >> and the finals to be in Gloucester. However, since Gloucester has
          > to go
          >> early, you'd expect it to perhaps be the first race in the series.
          >>
          >> My expectation would be that the GP would set it's dates, and
          > consider
          >> moving it's races around on those dates, so as not to disrupt the
          > schedule
          >> or operate at the expense of other race organizers who are
          > announcing their
          >> dates in good faith.
          >>
          >> I'm sympathetic to the pressure Gloucester is under right now. But
          > let's say
          >> they do move forward 2 weeks, to the 14/15 of October. First, that
          > could be
          >> possible, and they could swap with New Gloucester, ME for those
          > dates and
          >> maintain the flow of the calendar. But we've heard no discussion to
          > that
          >> effect yet, and we need to if this is a possible scenario.
          >>
          >> Second, moving forward will not address the risk of damage to the
          > course you
          >> wish to avoid. Anyone who was at Maine this year on the weekend
          > Gloucester
          >> is talking about moving to remembers it as the muddiest race we've
          > had all
          >> season so far. We had a week of rain in New England that didn't end
          > until
          >> Sunday. What would have happened if Gloucester was on that date
          > this year?
          >> Would you have to move to September?
          >>
          >> Everyone on this list, and every cyclo-cross rider in the US,
          > supports and
          >> wants to see a successful USGP, myself included. We need BOTH a
          > national
          >> racing calendar of events week in and week out, as well as a
          > national series
          >> that brings all the best riders together for a few select races.
          > Every
          >> organizer on this list is willing to be flexible, open, and
          > cooperative with
          >> the USGP to make sure that it's a success. But it needs to go both
          > ways, and
          >> we all need to be part of that process if it's going to go forward
          > in a
          >> successful way.
          >>
          >> Mike's e-mail was reasonable, in my opinion, and reflected what I
          > think many
          >> of us are feeling. We're all ready to go, and none of us want to
          > have our
          >> seats kicked out from under us.
          >>
          >> So Bruce, what I think we all need to hear is, what exactly are your
          >> desires, what are your limiters, and what are the possible
          > scenarios?
          >>
          >> Adam
          >>
          >>
          >> on 11/30/05 3:33 PM, finasport1 at finasport@a... wrote:
          >>
          >>> Dear Mike.
          >>>
          >>> I appreciate the situation and we are doing our best to get this
          >>> clarified. As you read from Paul, Gloucester does have issues
          > with
          >>> the date. We are also having issues, largely due to the fact that
          >>> the UCI needs dates set before the season even ends. That is
          >>> challenging to say the least. We would like to have the same
          > dates
          >>> every year, but as is the case for 2006 it looks like that might
          > not
          >>> be possible. There are so many different scenarios floating right
          >>> now that it is not even reasonable to explain them all.
          >>>
          >>> Other complaints that we faced this year that may or may not be
          >>> solvable are that teams such as TIAA CREF and last season, Maxxis
          > did
          >>> not appreciate that we were going coast to coast to coast this
          >>> season. They want their full support vehicles there and were
          > unable
          >>> to have that since it involved that travel.
          >>>
          >>> Not that this matters either, but from what I have heard there
          > will
          >>> be a change in the UCI points counting system that may make it
          > less
          >>> reasonable to have UCI races everywhere. Adam will have to fill
          > us
          >>> in. This may impact the decisions of promoters in the future but
          > I
          >>> am not clear as to how yet.
          >>>
          >>> Mike, I wish I could be more clear but until it is done, it is not
          >>> done. I am sorry for that. We will do our best.
          >>>
          >>> Bruce
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hebe" <mhebe@e...> wrote:
          >>>>
          >>>> Paul, Bruce, Geoff and my fellow UCI promoters
          >>>> I understand the desire to set a distinct date for an East Coast
          >>> USGP, that carries on, in case Gloucester may not be the choice at
          >>> some point. My concern as a promoter and as the Director of the
          > MAC
          >>> series is that a move in dates for 2006 will make both the New
          >>> England and the Mid-Atlantic UCI series revert back to the drawing
          >>> board, as it relates to scheduling.
          >>>> The impact of a date change from the last weekend in October will
          >>> directly impact no less than eight-ten other UCI events. As it
          > stands
          >>> now there are ZERO date conflicts for the UCI races on the East
          >>> Coast, sixteen in total. The NECCS & MAC series have worked
          >>> diligently to ensure this, while keeping dates open for Michigan &
          >>> NC. As promoters we have all went to great lengths to solidify our
          >>> dates for 2006, even earlier this year.
          >>>> Unless there is a date issue with the Gloucester venue, or
          >>> Gloucester will not be the USGP venue, I respectfully request
          > that NO
          >>> change in date be made for 2006. Any change in date could be
          >>> implemented in 2007. We are too close to the NATS promoter's
          > meeting
          >>> to ask promoters to go back to their respective venues and request
          >>> date changes.
          >>>> Thank you in advance for your consideration.
          >>>> Regards,
          >>>> Mike Hebe
          >>>> Race Director Lower Allen Classic UCI C2
          >>>> Director VERGE Mid-Atlantic Cyclocross series
          >>>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • myles romanow
          I agree with Tom, and yet offer perhaps an alternate view?? It seems that many of us want to know WHEN/WHERE the USGP s are, so we can schedule our events. Or
          Message 4 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
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            I agree with Tom, and yet offer perhaps an alternate view??

            It seems that many of us want to know WHEN/WHERE the USGP's are, so we can schedule our events.  Or get peice of mind..
             
            Now, let me just say, yes, We do need to know when and where the USGP's are, preferrably in a timely fashion (read before nats meeting/inscription time.)  It is the 400 lb gorilla blah blah blah. 
             
            Also for the record, I do think that Adam is playing mediator fairly well.  As a series co-ordinator and uci cross higher up type, perhaps some of his frustration does come out into forum. But to be fair, his frustrations are a result of a huge commitment to the sport... A commitment that many of us share, but again to be fair, I think he does shoulder a slightly higher burden than most of us.. ANYWAY back to my original point, which does lurk herein. 
             
            But..
             
            What effect will the usgp's REALLY have on us?  Let's be honest.  If an "unpleaseant" usgp schedule is handed out, what will really happen?  Will we descend into chaos changinh dates all over the place like a bunch of ninnies trying to accomplish ????     Will we cancel races because the 8 guys that travel to the GP's can't make our venues?  Will we then descend into bickering matches because "my race is bigger than your race" and I should get my pick of the dates??  Will races get cancelled because of it??  

            Truly, I don't know.. Personally, I'd like to THINK that nothing would happen.. And from my encounters with most of the race organizer types out there that are all kind, mostly mature (hey it's bike racing) people, I am fairly certain of that..   But we all want to put on the best possible races, and I think that because of that we all have sort of the same motivation.. Get the most best racers to our venues, to attract the most marketing dollars. And have some fun.. Especially the fun. 
             
            GP guys.. I have to sympathize with them a little bit. They are in an unfortunate situation, in that whatever they do, they are bound to piss of somebody.  And when you factor in the cyclical repetitive nature of UCI race organization (they guys that do it do it year after year...) that's not good... Solutions?  Keep the schedule exactly the same all the time?  But that doesn't fly with Nationals moving around every 2 years.. Therefore the GP's should move to restore the balance of East-West.. And therefore someone is getting pissed off...
             
            Realistically I think the Gp's need to move to a known calendar.. Such as "4 west coast 2 east coast w east coast nationals.. for two years, then the opposite for the next two years...  It's not rocket science.. Also realistically, due to the effort put forth in scheduling the ne/ma race scene, I would expect the DATES of the gp's to be fairly constant, meaning plus or minus 1 week from what they were now.. So that means they could be the same time, week earlier, or week later then they were this year.  This allows for a change of venue, different promoters to get in on the action, blah blah blah.  It also allows for some semblance of plannign for purposes of Verge, etc.. Realistically I don't think its impossible for the GP people to contact organizers mid Nov to ask if they are interested in next years hosting.  Again I think the onus is on the GP guys to contact promoters and ask if they want the status, rather than the promoters killing each other to try and get it..

            I'm off dayquil. I guess that's my 35 cents for the day..
             
            Myles
             
          • finasport1
            First: To Tom. Thank you for your continued support. You have always been supportive of cross and everything that anyone has taken on to better the sport.
            Message 5 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
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              First: To Tom.

              Thank you for your continued support. You have always been
              supportive of cross and everything that anyone has taken on to better
              the sport. While, as you say, we are in some way the 400 lb
              Gorilla, we are not trying to throw that weight around recklessly.
              We are simply trying to come to conclusions in a way that is correct
              and sensitive to others feelings and ambitions. We are working
              furiously to get our schedule done. We are speaking with 8-10
              different promoters about events for next season but are narrowing it
              down now. The challenge that I have spoken of is that we just
              completed the series season and the folks in California have not even
              settled thier books to decide whether they want to undertake another
              USGP. Therefore it is tough for us to make that decision without
              them.

              In any case, we will be done hopefully by the end of the weekend.

              To Adam. I appreciate your kind words. We have had our differences
              but I would gladly put them behind us. I have simply heard from
              various people around the US that you have predicted that we would
              not be around much longer. Unless you know something I do not, then
              you are mistaken. The USGP is stable and solvent and while some
              people would like to see us do more and bigger, we have chosen a
              conservative path to grow this that can be counted on for years to
              come. Sponsorship is always hard to come by but that said, we do not
              make promises we cannot keep and therefore we expect no September
              surprises.

              In any case, lets put this crap to and end and get on with it. We
              are good to go, races are good, I think and hope US cross is
              benefiting and we want to keep it going that way. This season,
              every US GP set a record for attendance at thier race. Even as great
              as Gloucester was and is, they exceeded expectations even in the snow!

              Ok, we will get you everything we have, as soon as we have it.

              Thanks again to all!

              Bruce




              --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, Adam Hodges Myerson <adam@c...> wrote:
              >
              > Bruce,
              >
              > I have never said anything on this list, or to anyone in private
              > conversation, that I have not also said to you personally, and in a
              > reasonable and professional manner.
              >
              > I have also not held you to a different standard than I hold myself
              and
              > every other organizer on this list, when it could be argued that
              you should,
              > in fact, be held to a higher standard.
              >
              > I stated clearly that I believe in the GP, I support it, and I want
              it to
              > succeed. You were the one who stepped up and took on the work that
              many of
              > us had only been talking about, and the work you, Paul, and Geoff
              have done
              > is appreciated by all of us. You will get support from every
              organizer on
              > this list, provided the GP doesn't happen at their expense.
              >
              > I think Tom's e-mail summed things up very well, and so I ask again:
              >
              > What exactly are your desires, what are your limiters, and what are
              the
              > possible scenarios?
              >
              > Adam
              >
              > on 12/1/05 5:23 AM, finasport1 at finasport@a... wrote:
              >
              > > Dear Adam:
              > >
              > > Thanks for your mail. As the newly appointed US Representative
              for
              > > Cross to the UCI I think you should remain neutral and supportive
              to
              > > all here. I do not enjoy hearing you criticize the USGP both
              > > privately and publicly all of the time, instead of directly to us
              or
              > > me in a reasonable and professional manner. We are trying hard to
              > > provide world class racing in the US. Between Geoff Proctor and
              > > myself we have over 15 years of experience managing and, in
              Geoff's
              > > case racing, at a World Cup and World Championship level. Not
              that
              > > we are not above criticism, we are harsher on ourselves than
              anyone
              > > else could be.
              > >
              > > The recent results of Ryan Trebon are proof that what we are
              doing is
              > > succeeding. He left the US after winning only 2 of the 4 USGPs he
              > > raced and then was able to finish 9th in a UCI Cat 1 in Belgium
              this
              > > past weekend. The class of US racing is getting better and
              better,
              > > as you stated in your DVD "Transition," at a USGP last season.
              > >
              > > I respect what each and every promoter is undertaking to organize
              a
              > > race and we can go back in time, even you Adam, and thank guys
              like
              > > Clark Natwick and Lyle Fulkerson, for paving our way for us.
              Those
              > > guys really did the hardest work and put thier butts on the line
              for
              > > the sport.
              > >
              > > What the USGP needs is the support and patience of the cross
              > > community to understand that what we are trying to do is
              > > complicated. We are always playing with fire and there is no way
              to
              > > do that in a communist open forum. If we do that, the whole thing
              > > will certainly collapse. For instance, it was very hard to make a
              > > decision to go to California and not to Highland Park. Craig
              > > McCallan and Steve Litvin were nothing but professional to work
              with
              > > and I think we still have a great relationship. They ran a great
              > > race and I would go back there in a heartbeat with a USGP. That
              > > said, from a national perspective we thought it would be a good
              idea
              > > to try to have races in the Northern California. Now we cannot
              just
              > > pick one, we have to find a way to get 2. The thinking behind
              that
              > > when the series was founded in a conversation between myself and
              > > Charles Pelkey at Monopoli, Italy, was that we need to make it
              > > reasonable for riders to travel. Especially the Juniors and U 23,
              > > but also those like Anne Knapp, who besides being the best woman
              in
              > > US Cross History, works for a living and cannot fly around the
              > > country each week.
              > >
              > > So the point there is that we need to deal with peoples feelings
              and
              > > emotions and this cannot be done in a public forum. Would you
              like
              > > to get fired from a job in front of all your peers? Even if you
              were
              > > great at what you do. But the company changed directions. Well
              > > that is how we feel every day. Someone, will always damn us
              because
              > > we cannot go everywhere and from the start, we thought 6 races
              over 3
              > > weekends is enough.
              > >
              > > So that is just number one on a long list of challenges. We are
              > > taking into account the thought of each and every promoter and
              trying
              > > to meld them together into a series. A huge challenge that Lyle
              > > Fulkerson can probably attest to. And as a National Series, we
              are
              > > striving to step up from the status of a great US race to that
              which
              > > attracts more people to our sport to spectate. Cross is the best
              > > discipline in Cycling for spectators. Maybe track can also be
              > > interesting, I do not really know. But we are taking into account
              > > things outside that might affect us, like other pro sports and
              other
              > > local activities around each race. I can only say that I think
              it
              > > is far more complicated than meets the eye.
              > >
              > > While I also would like to be organized 2 years in advance it is
              also
              > > not really reasonable for us with such a short history. Remember,
              > > that the New England Series and the MAC have a head start. We
              are
              > > growing and learning. And People like Tom Simpson are not going
              to
              > > commit to a race or a date until they have at least had one year
              > > under thier belt with a USGP. Also, you know yourself from your
              > > experience in Worcester that it is hard to commit to a race so
              > > early. Remember that your Worcester race was on the USGP calender
              > > until you cancelled for lack of funding. To avoid the trials and
              > > tribultations of that, we are doing our best to make sure we have
              > > solid promoters. We do not want to have Super Cup surprises in
              > > Septmeber. We have done everything we can to bend over backwards
              > > with the USGP promoters to not push them until we at least
              understand
              > > them and their challenges. This includes being patient to see
              what
              > > they do with their races. After 2 seasons we now think that we
              can
              > > start to offer each and every promoter more and more in the way of
              > > best practices we have learned from the races around the country
              as
              > > well as our European experience.
              > >
              > > Ok, enough I think, as Myles said, that is my 2 cents. I
              appreciate
              > > everyones effort to get this done and make it work. We would
              like to
              > > do our part and we hope that at least some of you have gotten
              benefit
              > > out of the USGP existing. Such as increased interest, or as Myles
              > > mentioned increased racers at a weekend before or after a USGP in
              the
              > > area.
              > >
              > > Sincerely Your
              > >
              > > Bruce
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, Adam Hodges Myerson <adam@c...>
              wrote:
              > >>
              > >> Organizers,
              > >>
              > >> I think it's important to think back to why this group of US UCI
              > > cyclo-cross
              > >> organizers exists, and why there's a national cyclo-cross racing
              > > calendar
              > >> with healthy, stable, individual races across the country.
              > > Essentially, it
              > >> was a reaction to the lack of organization of the national series
              > > at the
              > >> time. The rest of us were organized, had our dates set a year in
              > > advance
              > >> with no problem, and were working together. As late as September,
              > > the bomb
              > >> of the SuperCup was regularly dropped on us, which left everyone
              > > scrambling
              > >> to get out of the way to save their own races.
              > >>
              > >> When the SuperCup went away, what was left? Again, a healthy,
              > > stable, NRC of
              > >> individual race organizers across the country. High level 'cross
              > > didn't die,
              > >> it blossomed with the room it head above its head.
              > >>
              > >> For the group of US organizers at this point, it's not reasonable
              > > for the
              > >> USGP to operate in a vacuum or to assume that all the other US
              UCI
              > >> organizers should have to plan around it while it operates on a
              > > different
              > >> timetable than the rest of us. The USGP only exists because of
              the
              > > work of
              > >> individual promoters who were already organizing successful
              events.
              > > How is
              > >> it that we find ourselves once again in the situation where every
              > > race in
              > >> the country has its dates set other than the national series,
              when
              > > it should
              > >> be the other way around?
              > >>
              > >> The fact that we need to know our dates more than a year in
              advance
              > > is not a
              > >> negative; it's a reflection of the kind of organization
              necessary to
              > >> organize a quality, stable event that's rooted and has support in
              > > its
              > >> community and the racing scene. Races should have stability,
              > > history, and
              > >> tradition, or should be working towards that. Yearly date changes
              > > disrupt
              > >> that, and have a ripple effect that disrupts the entire calendar.
              > > If the
              > >> USGP is supposed to set the standard, then it should be organized
              > > better,
              > >> and sooner, than all of the other US races.
              > >>
              > >> If the USGP needs to reconsider its dates, it needs to do so in
              an
              > > open way
              > >> that involves discussion with ALL the events on the NRC. It can't
              > > operate as
              > >> a wrecking ball like the SuperCup did. The scene is much too
              > > unified now to
              > >> allow that to take place.
              > >>
              > >> We've seen that the NW races have committed to their dates. We
              > > haven't heard
              > >> from California, but we have heard from Bruce that there needs
              to be
              > >> geographical flow to the GP schedule. At the same time, we hear
              that
              > >> Gloucester is getting pressured to go earlier.
              > >>
              > >> Logically, if the NW is set then I would expect the second race
              to
              > > be in CA,
              > >> and the finals to be in Gloucester. However, since Gloucester has
              > > to go
              > >> early, you'd expect it to perhaps be the first race in the
              series.
              > >>
              > >> My expectation would be that the GP would set it's dates, and
              > > consider
              > >> moving it's races around on those dates, so as not to disrupt the
              > > schedule
              > >> or operate at the expense of other race organizers who are
              > > announcing their
              > >> dates in good faith.
              > >>
              > >> I'm sympathetic to the pressure Gloucester is under right now.
              But
              > > let's say
              > >> they do move forward 2 weeks, to the 14/15 of October. First,
              that
              > > could be
              > >> possible, and they could swap with New Gloucester, ME for those
              > > dates and
              > >> maintain the flow of the calendar. But we've heard no discussion
              to
              > > that
              > >> effect yet, and we need to if this is a possible scenario.
              > >>
              > >> Second, moving forward will not address the risk of damage to the
              > > course you
              > >> wish to avoid. Anyone who was at Maine this year on the weekend
              > > Gloucester
              > >> is talking about moving to remembers it as the muddiest race
              we've
              > > had all
              > >> season so far. We had a week of rain in New England that didn't
              end
              > > until
              > >> Sunday. What would have happened if Gloucester was on that date
              > > this year?
              > >> Would you have to move to September?
              > >>
              > >> Everyone on this list, and every cyclo-cross rider in the US,
              > > supports and
              > >> wants to see a successful USGP, myself included. We need BOTH a
              > > national
              > >> racing calendar of events week in and week out, as well as a
              > > national series
              > >> that brings all the best riders together for a few select races.
              > > Every
              > >> organizer on this list is willing to be flexible, open, and
              > > cooperative with
              > >> the USGP to make sure that it's a success. But it needs to go
              both
              > > ways, and
              > >> we all need to be part of that process if it's going to go
              forward
              > > in a
              > >> successful way.
              > >>
              > >> Mike's e-mail was reasonable, in my opinion, and reflected what I
              > > think many
              > >> of us are feeling. We're all ready to go, and none of us want to
              > > have our
              > >> seats kicked out from under us.
              > >>
              > >> So Bruce, what I think we all need to hear is, what exactly are
              your
              > >> desires, what are your limiters, and what are the possible
              > > scenarios?
              > >>
              > >> Adam
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> on 11/30/05 3:33 PM, finasport1 at finasport@a... wrote:
              > >>
              > >>> Dear Mike.
              > >>>
              > >>> I appreciate the situation and we are doing our best to get this
              > >>> clarified. As you read from Paul, Gloucester does have issues
              > > with
              > >>> the date. We are also having issues, largely due to the fact
              that
              > >>> the UCI needs dates set before the season even ends. That is
              > >>> challenging to say the least. We would like to have the same
              > > dates
              > >>> every year, but as is the case for 2006 it looks like that might
              > > not
              > >>> be possible. There are so many different scenarios floating
              right
              > >>> now that it is not even reasonable to explain them all.
              > >>>
              > >>> Other complaints that we faced this year that may or may not be
              > >>> solvable are that teams such as TIAA CREF and last season,
              Maxxis
              > > did
              > >>> not appreciate that we were going coast to coast to coast this
              > >>> season. They want their full support vehicles there and were
              > > unable
              > >>> to have that since it involved that travel.
              > >>>
              > >>> Not that this matters either, but from what I have heard there
              > > will
              > >>> be a change in the UCI points counting system that may make it
              > > less
              > >>> reasonable to have UCI races everywhere. Adam will have to fill
              > > us
              > >>> in. This may impact the decisions of promoters in the future
              but
              > > I
              > >>> am not clear as to how yet.
              > >>>
              > >>> Mike, I wish I could be more clear but until it is done, it is
              not
              > >>> done. I am sorry for that. We will do our best.
              > >>>
              > >>> Bruce
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>> --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hebe" <mhebe@e...> wrote:
              > >>>>
              > >>>> Paul, Bruce, Geoff and my fellow UCI promoters
              > >>>> I understand the desire to set a distinct date for an East
              Coast
              > >>> USGP, that carries on, in case Gloucester may not be the choice
              at
              > >>> some point. My concern as a promoter and as the Director of the
              > > MAC
              > >>> series is that a move in dates for 2006 will make both the New
              > >>> England and the Mid-Atlantic UCI series revert back to the
              drawing
              > >>> board, as it relates to scheduling.
              > >>>> The impact of a date change from the last weekend in October
              will
              > >>> directly impact no less than eight-ten other UCI events. As it
              > > stands
              > >>> now there are ZERO date conflicts for the UCI races on the East
              > >>> Coast, sixteen in total. The NECCS & MAC series have worked
              > >>> diligently to ensure this, while keeping dates open for
              Michigan &
              > >>> NC. As promoters we have all went to great lengths to solidify
              our
              > >>> dates for 2006, even earlier this year.
              > >>>> Unless there is a date issue with the Gloucester venue, or
              > >>> Gloucester will not be the USGP venue, I respectfully request
              > > that NO
              > >>> change in date be made for 2006. Any change in date could be
              > >>> implemented in 2007. We are too close to the NATS promoter's
              > > meeting
              > >>> to ask promoters to go back to their respective venues and
              request
              > >>> date changes.
              > >>>> Thank you in advance for your consideration.
              > >>>> Regards,
              > >>>> Mike Hebe
              > >>>> Race Director Lower Allen Classic UCI C2
              > >>>> Director VERGE Mid-Atlantic Cyclocross series
              > >>>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
            • finasport1
              Dear Myles Congrats on getting free of the Nyquil! It took me 2 years with Betty Ford to kick that habit. Thank you also for your thoughts and insights. You
              Message 6 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Dear Myles

                Congrats on getting free of the Nyquil! It took me 2 years with
                Betty Ford to kick that habit.

                Thank you also for your thoughts and insights. You are pretty much
                spot on. The further challenge that we have is that there are not
                just 2 regions in this country. There is Wisconson and Kansas City
                and the Southeast and So Cal etc etc. So there is a lot of pissing
                off possible. That said, we would love to settle on the sale dates
                each year. There is no question of that. We are even working on
                that this year and hope to accomplish that. The venues might move
                around but we want to stay with those dates. We are trying our best.

                Thanks
                Bruce




                --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, myles romanow <bikeguy11968@y...>
                wrote:
                >
                > I agree with Tom, and yet offer perhaps an alternate view??
                >
                > It seems that many of us want to know WHEN/WHERE the USGP's are, so
                we can schedule our events. Or get peice of mind..
                >
                > Now, let me just say, yes, We do need to know when and where the
                USGP's are, preferrably in a timely fashion (read before nats
                meeting/inscription time.) It is the 400 lb gorilla blah blah blah.
                >
                > Also for the record, I do think that Adam is playing mediator
                fairly well. As a series co-ordinator and uci cross higher up type,
                perhaps some of his frustration does come out into forum. But to be
                fair, his frustrations are a result of a huge commitment to the
                sport... A commitment that many of us share, but again to be fair, I
                think he does shoulder a slightly higher burden than most of us..
                ANYWAY back to my original point, which does lurk herein.
                >
                > But..
                >
                > What effect will the usgp's REALLY have on us? Let's be honest.
                If an "unpleaseant" usgp schedule is handed out, what will really
                happen? Will we descend into chaos changinh dates all over the place
                like a bunch of ninnies trying to accomplish ???? Will we cancel
                races because the 8 guys that travel to the GP's can't make our
                venues? Will we then descend into bickering matches because "my race
                is bigger than your race" and I should get my pick of the dates??
                Will races get cancelled because of it??
                >
                > Truly, I don't know.. Personally, I'd like to THINK that nothing
                would happen.. And from my encounters with most of the race organizer
                types out there that are all kind, mostly mature (hey it's bike
                racing) people, I am fairly certain of that.. But we all want to
                put on the best possible races, and I think that because of that we
                all have sort of the same motivation.. Get the most best racers to
                our venues, to attract the most marketing dollars. And have some
                fun.. Especially the fun.
                >
                > GP guys.. I have to sympathize with them a little bit. They are
                in an unfortunate situation, in that whatever they do, they are bound
                to piss of somebody. And when you factor in the cyclical repetitive
                nature of UCI race organization (they guys that do it do it year
                after year...) that's not good... Solutions? Keep the schedule
                exactly the same all the time? But that doesn't fly with Nationals
                moving around every 2 years.. Therefore the GP's should move to
                restore the balance of East-West.. And therefore someone is getting
                pissed off...
                >
                > Realistically I think the Gp's need to move to a known calendar..
                Such as "4 west coast 2 east coast w east coast nationals.. for two
                years, then the opposite for the next two years... It's not rocket
                science.. Also realistically, due to the effort put forth in
                scheduling the ne/ma race scene, I would expect the DATES of the gp's
                to be fairly constant, meaning plus or minus 1 week from what they
                were now.. So that means they could be the same time, week earlier,
                or week later then they were this year. This allows for a change of
                venue, different promoters to get in on the action, blah blah blah.
                It also allows for some semblance of plannign for purposes of Verge,
                etc.. Realistically I don't think its impossible for the GP people to
                contact organizers mid Nov to ask if they are interested in next
                years hosting. Again I think the onus is on the GP guys to contact
                promoters and ask if they want the status, rather than the promoters
                killing each other to try and get it..
                >
                > I'm off dayquil. I guess that's my 35 cents for the day..
                >
                > Myles
                >
              • Tim Hopkin
                As the organizer of the North Carolina Grand Prix - UCI weekend that went up against the USGP on the west coast on November 19-20, I must say I was pleased
                Message 7 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
                • 0 Attachment

                  As the organizer of the North Carolina Grand Prix – UCI weekend that went up against the USGP on the west coast on November 19-20, I must say I was pleased with the turn out of Elite racers in North Carolina.  We had 49 men on Saturday and 43 on Sunday, there were 12 Elite women on each day.  Was I nervous about having the event go up against a USGP, yes but being the optimist I believed that I was offering an east coast option that might entice riders looking for UCI points and cash.  Yes, the USGP did have all the stars but there were plenty of other top riders that came to NC and put on an excellent show with exciting racing both days.

                   

                  I think as others have said if we as promoters put on a quality event the riders will come and that should be our goal, great cross races.  If, we happen to be blessed to be chosen to be a part of the USGP wonderful.  I think the efforts by this group to not have UCI events on the same coast on the same weekend are probably even more valuable.  I appreciate the opportunity to offer UCI events in NC and not have them conflict with the MAC and New England races.  I look forward to meeting everyone in RI and putting some faces to the names.

                   

                  Tim Hopkin

                  NC Cyclo-Cross Series / Winter Cup

                  North Carolina Grand Prix

                  828 697-4884

                   

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of myles romanow
                  Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:12 AM
                  To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates

                   

                  I agree with Tom, and yet offer perhaps an alternate view??

                  It seems that many of us want to know WHEN/WHERE the USGP's are, so we can schedule our events.  Or get peice of mind..

                   

                  Now, let me just say, yes, We do need to know when and where the USGP's are, preferrably in a timely fashion (read before nats meeting/inscription time.)  It is the 400 lb gorilla blah blah blah. 

                   

                  Also for the record, I do think that Adam is playing mediator fairly well.  As a series co-ordinator and uci cross higher up type, perhaps some of his frustration does come out into forum. But to be fair, his frustrations are a result of a huge commitment to the sport... A commitment that many of us share, but again to be fair, I think he does shoulder a slightly higher burden than most of us.. ANYWAY back to my original point, which does lurk herein. 

                   

                  But..

                   

                  What effect will the usgp's REALLY have on us?  Let's be honest.  If an "unpleaseant" usgp schedule is handed out, what will really happen?  Will we descend into chaos changinh dates all over the place like a bunch of ninnies trying to accomplish ????     Will we cancel races because the 8 guys that travel to the GP's can't make our venues?  Will we then descend into bickering matches because "my race is bigger than your race" and I should get my pick of the dates??  Will races get cancelled because of it??  

                  Truly, I don't know.. Personally, I'd like to THINK that nothing would happen.. And from my encounters with most of the race organizer types out there that are all kind, mostly mature (hey it's bike racing) people, I am fairly certain of that..   But we all want to put on the best possible races, and I think that because of that we all have sort of the same motivation.. Get the most best racers to our venues, to attract the most marketing dollars. And have some fun.. Especially the fun. 

                   

                  GP guys.. I have to sympathize with them a little bit. They are in an unfortunate situation, in that whatever they do, they are bound to piss of somebody.  And when you factor in the cyclical repetitive nature of UCI race organization (they guys that do it do it year after year...) that's not good... Solutions?  Keep the schedule exactly the same all the time?  But that doesn't fly with Nationals moving around every 2 years.. Therefore the GP's should move to restore the balance of East-West.. And therefore someone is getting pissed off...

                   

                  Realistically I think the Gp's need to move to a known calendar.. Such as "4 west coast 2 east coast w east coast nationals.. for two years, then the opposite for the next two years...  It's not rocket science.. Also realistically, due to the effort put forth in scheduling the ne/ma race scene, I would expect the DATES of the gp's to be fairly constant, meaning plus or minus 1 week from what they were now.. So that means they could be the same time, week earlier, or week later then they were this year.  This allows for a change of venue, different promoters to get in on the action, blah blah blah.  It also allows for some semblance of plannign for purposes of Verge, etc.. Realistically I don't think its impossible for the GP people to contact organizers mid Nov to ask if they are interested in next years hosting.  Again I think the onus is on the GP guys to contact promoters and ask if they want the status, rather than the promoters killing each other to try and get it..

                  I'm off dayquil. I guess that's my 35 cents for the day..

                   

                  Myles

                   

                   

                • Adam Hodges Myerson
                  ... I didn t get involved with this kind of thing in high school, and I don t intend to get involved in it now. I can imagine that when I heard rumors that the
                  Message 8 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    on 12/1/05 11:09 AM, finasport1 at finasport@... wrote:

                    > To Adam. I appreciate your kind words. We have had our differences
                    > but I would gladly put them behind us. I have simply heard from
                    > various people around the US that you have predicted that we would
                    > not be around much longer. Unless you know something I do not, then
                    > you are mistaken. The USGP is stable and solvent and while some
                    > people would like to see us do more and bigger, we have chosen a
                    > conservative path to grow this that can be counted on for years to
                    > come. Sponsorship is always hard to come by but that said, we do not
                    > make promises we cannot keep and therefore we expect no September
                    > surprises.

                    I didn't get involved with this kind of thing in high school, and I don't
                    intend to get involved in it now.

                    I can imagine that when I heard rumors that the GP was having a hard time
                    maintaining sponsorship or getting new sponsors, I might have conjectured to
                    someone that the GP wouldn't last in it's current format.

                    Since I can't recall where I heard that from, or who I might have been
                    conversing with, I would never have considered it something worth repeating,
                    taking seriously, going to you with, or posting on this board.

                    If something I may have posed as a question or concern based on conjecture
                    in an off-hand conversation I don't even fully recall has now been amplified
                    and come back to you as me predicting the downfall of the GP, I apologize
                    for starting that ripple. That's not my position, nor is it my hope.

                    I think I've established my reputation here as being open, up front, fair,
                    and honest to a fault. My only agenda is good communication, good
                    organization, respect and cooperation, with a professional US cyclo-cross
                    circuit as the end goal.

                    Adam
                  • Rogers, Justin
                    All, Usually I just read the streams of e-mail from the cross promoters and stay out of your way. You are the experts at what you do and I think you all should
                    Message 9 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      All,

                      Usually I just read the streams of e-mail from the cross promoters and
                      stay out of your way. You are the experts at what you do and I think you
                      all should be commended on your openness and willingness to discuss and
                      plan. Not every discipline has a group like yours, it is pretty cool
                      what you have here.

                      That said, the arguments and the "he said, she said game" does nothing
                      to get anyone closer to the goal of having a solid Cross Calendar for
                      next year. You are all under a lot of pressure due to the timing of the
                      season. The UCI inscription period is not easy to swallow when several
                      of you are still in the process of preparing for and running your
                      events. Please keep in mind, we all want the same thing, you may be from
                      the East coast the West Coast the Mid-West or wherever but you are all
                      people who love the spot and want to see it grow so lets keep this civil
                      as we all prepare for the next season.


                      Thank you for letting me add my two cents.




                      Justin Rogers

                      National Events Director

                      USA Cycling, Inc.

                      One Olympic Plaza

                      Colorado Springs, CO 80909

                      Phone: 719-866-3266

                      Fax: 719-866-4628



                      This message is intended only for the named recipient. If you are not
                      the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying,
                      distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this
                      information is strictly prohibited.


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      Of Adam Hodges Myerson
                      Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:32 AM
                      To: USAICO
                      Subject: Re: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates

                      on 12/1/05 11:09 AM, finasport1 at finasport@... wrote:

                      > To Adam. I appreciate your kind words. We have had our differences
                      > but I would gladly put them behind us. I have simply heard from
                      > various people around the US that you have predicted that we would not

                      > be around much longer. Unless you know something I do not, then you
                      > are mistaken. The USGP is stable and solvent and while some people
                      > would like to see us do more and bigger, we have chosen a conservative

                      > path to grow this that can be counted on for years to come.
                      > Sponsorship is always hard to come by but that said, we do not make
                      > promises we cannot keep and therefore we expect no September
                      > surprises.

                      I didn't get involved with this kind of thing in high school, and I
                      don't intend to get involved in it now.

                      I can imagine that when I heard rumors that the GP was having a hard
                      time maintaining sponsorship or getting new sponsors, I might have
                      conjectured to someone that the GP wouldn't last in it's current format.

                      Since I can't recall where I heard that from, or who I might have been
                      conversing with, I would never have considered it something worth
                      repeating, taking seriously, going to you with, or posting on this
                      board.

                      If something I may have posed as a question or concern based on
                      conjecture in an off-hand conversation I don't even fully recall has now
                      been amplified and come back to you as me predicting the downfall of the
                      GP, I apologize for starting that ripple. That's not my position, nor is
                      it my hope.

                      I think I've established my reputation here as being open, up front,
                      fair, and honest to a fault. My only agenda is good communication, good
                      organization, respect and cooperation, with a professional US
                      cyclo-cross circuit as the end goal.

                      Adam




                      ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
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                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • Mike Hebe
                      Justin, If you would bring copies of Inscription forms to Nats for the promoters meeting we could probably all fill them in there & get them in your hands at
                      Message 10 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Justin,
                        If you would bring copies of Inscription forms to Nats for the promoters
                        meeting we could probably all fill them in there & get them in your hands at
                        the same time.
                        Just a thought.
                        Mike Hebe

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Rogers, Justin" <jrogers@...>
                        To: <USAICO@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 12:01 PM
                        Subject: RE: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates


                        > All,
                        >
                        > Usually I just read the streams of e-mail from the cross promoters and
                        > stay out of your way. You are the experts at what you do and I think you
                        > all should be commended on your openness and willingness to discuss and
                        > plan. Not every discipline has a group like yours, it is pretty cool
                        > what you have here.
                        >
                        > That said, the arguments and the "he said, she said game" does nothing
                        > to get anyone closer to the goal of having a solid Cross Calendar for
                        > next year. You are all under a lot of pressure due to the timing of the
                        > season. The UCI inscription period is not easy to swallow when several
                        > of you are still in the process of preparing for and running your
                        > events. Please keep in mind, we all want the same thing, you may be from
                        > the East coast the West Coast the Mid-West or wherever but you are all
                        > people who love the spot and want to see it grow so lets keep this civil
                        > as we all prepare for the next season.
                        >
                        >
                        > Thank you for letting me add my two cents.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Justin Rogers
                        >
                        > National Events Director
                        >
                        > USA Cycling, Inc.
                        >
                        > One Olympic Plaza
                        >
                        > Colorado Springs, CO 80909
                        >
                        > Phone: 719-866-3266
                        >
                        > Fax: 719-866-4628
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > This message is intended only for the named recipient. If you are not
                        > the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying,
                        > distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this
                        > information is strictly prohibited.
                        >
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                        > Of Adam Hodges Myerson
                        > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:32 AM
                        > To: USAICO
                        > Subject: Re: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates
                        >
                        > on 12/1/05 11:09 AM, finasport1 at finasport@... wrote:
                        >
                        >> To Adam. I appreciate your kind words. We have had our differences
                        >> but I would gladly put them behind us. I have simply heard from
                        >> various people around the US that you have predicted that we would not
                        >
                        >> be around much longer. Unless you know something I do not, then you
                        >> are mistaken. The USGP is stable and solvent and while some people
                        >> would like to see us do more and bigger, we have chosen a conservative
                        >
                        >> path to grow this that can be counted on for years to come.
                        >> Sponsorship is always hard to come by but that said, we do not make
                        >> promises we cannot keep and therefore we expect no September
                        >> surprises.
                        >
                        > I didn't get involved with this kind of thing in high school, and I
                        > don't intend to get involved in it now.
                        >
                        > I can imagine that when I heard rumors that the GP was having a hard
                        > time maintaining sponsorship or getting new sponsors, I might have
                        > conjectured to someone that the GP wouldn't last in it's current format.
                        >
                        > Since I can't recall where I heard that from, or who I might have been
                        > conversing with, I would never have considered it something worth
                        > repeating, taking seriously, going to you with, or posting on this
                        > board.
                        >
                        > If something I may have posed as a question or concern based on
                        > conjecture in an off-hand conversation I don't even fully recall has now
                        > been amplified and come back to you as me predicting the downfall of the
                        > GP, I apologize for starting that ripple. That's not my position, nor is
                        > it my hope.
                        >
                        > I think I've established my reputation here as being open, up front,
                        > fair, and honest to a fault. My only agenda is good communication, good
                        > organization, respect and cooperation, with a professional US
                        > cyclo-cross circuit as the end goal.
                        >
                        > Adam
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Rogers, Justin
                        The UCI likes them returned electronically (easier to read when they are typed) but if anyone needs hard copies I can bring them along. Justin ... From:
                        Message 11 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          The UCI likes them returned electronically (easier to read when they are
                          typed) but if anyone needs hard copies I can bring them along.



                          Justin


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                          Of Mike Hebe
                          Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 11:16 AM
                          To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates

                          Justin,
                          If you would bring copies of Inscription forms to Nats for the promoters
                          meeting we could probably all fill them in there & get them in your
                          hands at the same time.
                          Just a thought.
                          Mike Hebe

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Rogers, Justin" <jrogers@...>
                          To: <USAICO@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 12:01 PM
                          Subject: RE: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates


                          > All,
                          >
                          > Usually I just read the streams of e-mail from the cross promoters and
                          > stay out of your way. You are the experts at what you do and I think
                          you
                          > all should be commended on your openness and willingness to discuss
                          and
                          > plan. Not every discipline has a group like yours, it is pretty cool
                          > what you have here.
                          >
                          > That said, the arguments and the "he said, she said game" does nothing
                          > to get anyone closer to the goal of having a solid Cross Calendar for
                          > next year. You are all under a lot of pressure due to the timing of
                          the
                          > season. The UCI inscription period is not easy to swallow when several
                          > of you are still in the process of preparing for and running your
                          > events. Please keep in mind, we all want the same thing, you may be
                          from
                          > the East coast the West Coast the Mid-West or wherever but you are all
                          > people who love the spot and want to see it grow so lets keep this
                          civil
                          > as we all prepare for the next season.
                          >
                          >
                          > Thank you for letting me add my two cents.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Justin Rogers
                          >
                          > National Events Director
                          >
                          > USA Cycling, Inc.
                          >
                          > One Olympic Plaza
                          >
                          > Colorado Springs, CO 80909
                          >
                          > Phone: 719-866-3266
                          >
                          > Fax: 719-866-4628
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > This message is intended only for the named recipient. If you are not
                          > the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying,
                          > distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this
                          > information is strictly prohibited.
                          >
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                          > Of Adam Hodges Myerson
                          > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:32 AM
                          > To: USAICO
                          > Subject: Re: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates
                          >
                          > on 12/1/05 11:09 AM, finasport1 at finasport@... wrote:
                          >
                          >> To Adam. I appreciate your kind words. We have had our differences
                          >> but I would gladly put them behind us. I have simply heard from
                          >> various people around the US that you have predicted that we would
                          not
                          >
                          >> be around much longer. Unless you know something I do not, then you
                          >> are mistaken. The USGP is stable and solvent and while some people
                          >> would like to see us do more and bigger, we have chosen a
                          conservative
                          >
                          >> path to grow this that can be counted on for years to come.
                          >> Sponsorship is always hard to come by but that said, we do not make
                          >> promises we cannot keep and therefore we expect no September
                          >> surprises.
                          >
                          > I didn't get involved with this kind of thing in high school, and I
                          > don't intend to get involved in it now.
                          >
                          > I can imagine that when I heard rumors that the GP was having a hard
                          > time maintaining sponsorship or getting new sponsors, I might have
                          > conjectured to someone that the GP wouldn't last in it's current
                          format.
                          >
                          > Since I can't recall where I heard that from, or who I might have been
                          > conversing with, I would never have considered it something worth
                          > repeating, taking seriously, going to you with, or posting on this
                          > board.
                          >
                          > If something I may have posed as a question or concern based on
                          > conjecture in an off-hand conversation I don't even fully recall has
                          now
                          > been amplified and come back to you as me predicting the downfall of
                          the
                          > GP, I apologize for starting that ripple. That's not my position, nor
                          is
                          > it my hope.
                          >
                          > I think I've established my reputation here as being open, up front,
                          > fair, and honest to a fault. My only agenda is good communication,
                          good
                          > organization, respect and cooperation, with a professional US
                          > cyclo-cross circuit as the end goal.
                          >
                          > Adam
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >





                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                        • Mike Hebe
                          Can you send/resend the 06-07 inscription. I can not find an electronic copy. Thanks, Mike Hebe ... From: Rogers, Justin To:
                          Message 12 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Can you send/resend the 06-07 inscription. I can not find an electronic
                            copy.
                            Thanks,
                            Mike Hebe

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Rogers, Justin" <jrogers@...>
                            To: <USAICO@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 1:20 PM
                            Subject: RE: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates


                            > The UCI likes them returned electronically (easier to read when they are
                            > typed) but if anyone needs hard copies I can bring them along.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Justin
                            >
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                            > Of Mike Hebe
                            > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 11:16 AM
                            > To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: Re: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates
                            >
                            > Justin,
                            > If you would bring copies of Inscription forms to Nats for the promoters
                            > meeting we could probably all fill them in there & get them in your
                            > hands at the same time.
                            > Just a thought.
                            > Mike Hebe
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: "Rogers, Justin" <jrogers@...>
                            > To: <USAICO@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 12:01 PM
                            > Subject: RE: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates
                            >
                            >
                            >> All,
                            >>
                            >> Usually I just read the streams of e-mail from the cross promoters and
                            >> stay out of your way. You are the experts at what you do and I think
                            > you
                            >> all should be commended on your openness and willingness to discuss
                            > and
                            >> plan. Not every discipline has a group like yours, it is pretty cool
                            >> what you have here.
                            >>
                            >> That said, the arguments and the "he said, she said game" does nothing
                            >> to get anyone closer to the goal of having a solid Cross Calendar for
                            >> next year. You are all under a lot of pressure due to the timing of
                            > the
                            >> season. The UCI inscription period is not easy to swallow when several
                            >> of you are still in the process of preparing for and running your
                            >> events. Please keep in mind, we all want the same thing, you may be
                            > from
                            >> the East coast the West Coast the Mid-West or wherever but you are all
                            >> people who love the spot and want to see it grow so lets keep this
                            > civil
                            >> as we all prepare for the next season.
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> Thank you for letting me add my two cents.
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> Justin Rogers
                            >>
                            >> National Events Director
                            >>
                            >> USA Cycling, Inc.
                            >>
                            >> One Olympic Plaza
                            >>
                            >> Colorado Springs, CO 80909
                            >>
                            >> Phone: 719-866-3266
                            >>
                            >> Fax: 719-866-4628
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> This message is intended only for the named recipient. If you are not
                            >> the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying,
                            >> distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this
                            >> information is strictly prohibited.
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> -----Original Message-----
                            >> From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                            >> Of Adam Hodges Myerson
                            >> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:32 AM
                            >> To: USAICO
                            >> Subject: Re: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates
                            >>
                            >> on 12/1/05 11:09 AM, finasport1 at finasport@... wrote:
                            >>
                            >>> To Adam. I appreciate your kind words. We have had our differences
                            >>> but I would gladly put them behind us. I have simply heard from
                            >>> various people around the US that you have predicted that we would
                            > not
                            >>
                            >>> be around much longer. Unless you know something I do not, then you
                            >>> are mistaken. The USGP is stable and solvent and while some people
                            >>> would like to see us do more and bigger, we have chosen a
                            > conservative
                            >>
                            >>> path to grow this that can be counted on for years to come.
                            >>> Sponsorship is always hard to come by but that said, we do not make
                            >>> promises we cannot keep and therefore we expect no September
                            >>> surprises.
                            >>
                            >> I didn't get involved with this kind of thing in high school, and I
                            >> don't intend to get involved in it now.
                            >>
                            >> I can imagine that when I heard rumors that the GP was having a hard
                            >> time maintaining sponsorship or getting new sponsors, I might have
                            >> conjectured to someone that the GP wouldn't last in it's current
                            > format.
                            >>
                            >> Since I can't recall where I heard that from, or who I might have been
                            >> conversing with, I would never have considered it something worth
                            >> repeating, taking seriously, going to you with, or posting on this
                            >> board.
                            >>
                            >> If something I may have posed as a question or concern based on
                            >> conjecture in an off-hand conversation I don't even fully recall has
                            > now
                            >> been amplified and come back to you as me predicting the downfall of
                            > the
                            >> GP, I apologize for starting that ripple. That's not my position, nor
                            > is
                            >> it my hope.
                            >>
                            >> I think I've established my reputation here as being open, up front,
                            >> fair, and honest to a fault. My only agenda is good communication,
                            > good
                            >> organization, respect and cooperation, with a professional US
                            >> cyclo-cross circuit as the end goal.
                            >>
                            >> Adam
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Rogers, Justin
                            All, Here are the electronic Inscription forms for 06-07. Please let me know if there is anything I can help with. Best regards, Justin Rogers National Events
                            Message 13 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              All,

                              Here are the electronic Inscription forms for 06-07.

                              Please let me know if there is anything I can help with.


                              Best regards,







                              Justin Rogers

                              National Events Director

                              USA Cycling, Inc.

                              One Olympic Plaza

                              Colorado Springs, CO 80909

                              Phone: 719-866-3266

                              Fax: 719-866-4628



                              This message is intended only for the named recipient. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.


                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hebe
                              Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 11:31 AM
                              To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates

                              Can you send/resend the 06-07 inscription. I can not find an electronic copy.
                              Thanks,
                              Mike Hebe

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Rogers, Justin" <jrogers@...>
                              To: <USAICO@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 1:20 PM
                              Subject: RE: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates


                              > The UCI likes them returned electronically (easier to read when they are
                              > typed) but if anyone needs hard copies I can bring them along.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Justin
                              >
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                              > Of Mike Hebe
                              > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 11:16 AM
                              > To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: Re: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates
                              >
                              > Justin,
                              > If you would bring copies of Inscription forms to Nats for the promoters
                              > meeting we could probably all fill them in there & get them in your
                              > hands at the same time.
                              > Just a thought.
                              > Mike Hebe
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: "Rogers, Justin" <jrogers@...>
                              > To: <USAICO@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 12:01 PM
                              > Subject: RE: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates
                              >
                              >
                              >> All,
                              >>
                              >> Usually I just read the streams of e-mail from the cross promoters and
                              >> stay out of your way. You are the experts at what you do and I think
                              > you
                              >> all should be commended on your openness and willingness to discuss
                              > and
                              >> plan. Not every discipline has a group like yours, it is pretty cool
                              >> what you have here.
                              >>
                              >> That said, the arguments and the "he said, she said game" does nothing
                              >> to get anyone closer to the goal of having a solid Cross Calendar for
                              >> next year. You are all under a lot of pressure due to the timing of
                              > the
                              >> season. The UCI inscription period is not easy to swallow when several
                              >> of you are still in the process of preparing for and running your
                              >> events. Please keep in mind, we all want the same thing, you may be
                              > from
                              >> the East coast the West Coast the Mid-West or wherever but you are all
                              >> people who love the spot and want to see it grow so lets keep this
                              > civil
                              >> as we all prepare for the next season.
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> Thank you for letting me add my two cents.
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> Justin Rogers
                              >>
                              >> National Events Director
                              >>
                              >> USA Cycling, Inc.
                              >>
                              >> One Olympic Plaza
                              >>
                              >> Colorado Springs, CO 80909
                              >>
                              >> Phone: 719-866-3266
                              >>
                              >> Fax: 719-866-4628
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> This message is intended only for the named recipient. If you are not
                              >> the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying,
                              >> distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this
                              >> information is strictly prohibited.
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> -----Original Message-----
                              >> From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                              >> Of Adam Hodges Myerson
                              >> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:32 AM
                              >> To: USAICO
                              >> Subject: Re: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates
                              >>
                              >> on 12/1/05 11:09 AM, finasport1 at finasport@... wrote:
                              >>
                              >>> To Adam. I appreciate your kind words. We have had our differences
                              >>> but I would gladly put them behind us. I have simply heard from
                              >>> various people around the US that you have predicted that we would
                              > not
                              >>
                              >>> be around much longer. Unless you know something I do not, then you
                              >>> are mistaken. The USGP is stable and solvent and while some people
                              >>> would like to see us do more and bigger, we have chosen a
                              > conservative
                              >>
                              >>> path to grow this that can be counted on for years to come.
                              >>> Sponsorship is always hard to come by but that said, we do not make
                              >>> promises we cannot keep and therefore we expect no September
                              >>> surprises.
                              >>
                              >> I didn't get involved with this kind of thing in high school, and I
                              >> don't intend to get involved in it now.
                              >>
                              >> I can imagine that when I heard rumors that the GP was having a hard
                              >> time maintaining sponsorship or getting new sponsors, I might have
                              >> conjectured to someone that the GP wouldn't last in it's current
                              > format.
                              >>
                              >> Since I can't recall where I heard that from, or who I might have been
                              >> conversing with, I would never have considered it something worth
                              >> repeating, taking seriously, going to you with, or posting on this
                              >> board.
                              >>
                              >> If something I may have posed as a question or concern based on
                              >> conjecture in an off-hand conversation I don't even fully recall has
                              > now
                              >> been amplified and come back to you as me predicting the downfall of
                              > the
                              >> GP, I apologize for starting that ripple. That's not my position, nor
                              > is
                              >> it my hope.
                              >>
                              >> I think I've established my reputation here as being open, up front,
                              >> fair, and honest to a fault. My only agenda is good communication,
                              > good
                              >> organization, respect and cooperation, with a professional US
                              >> cyclo-cross circuit as the end goal.
                              >>
                              >> Adam
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >





                              Yahoo! Groups Links
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