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Re: Gloucester USGP dates

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  • finasport1
    Dear Mike. I appreciate the situation and we are doing our best to get this clarified. As you read from Paul, Gloucester does have issues with the date. We
    Message 1 of 22 , Nov 30, 2005
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      Dear Mike.

      I appreciate the situation and we are doing our best to get this
      clarified. As you read from Paul, Gloucester does have issues with
      the date. We are also having issues, largely due to the fact that
      the UCI needs dates set before the season even ends. That is
      challenging to say the least. We would like to have the same dates
      every year, but as is the case for 2006 it looks like that might not
      be possible. There are so many different scenarios floating right
      now that it is not even reasonable to explain them all.

      Other complaints that we faced this year that may or may not be
      solvable are that teams such as TIAA CREF and last season, Maxxis did
      not appreciate that we were going coast to coast to coast this
      season. They want their full support vehicles there and were unable
      to have that since it involved that travel.

      Not that this matters either, but from what I have heard there will
      be a change in the UCI points counting system that may make it less
      reasonable to have UCI races everywhere. Adam will have to fill us
      in. This may impact the decisions of promoters in the future but I
      am not clear as to how yet.

      Mike, I wish I could be more clear but until it is done, it is not
      done. I am sorry for that. We will do our best.

      Bruce


      --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hebe" <mhebe@e...> wrote:
      >
      > Paul, Bruce, Geoff and my fellow UCI promoters
      > I understand the desire to set a distinct date for an East Coast
      USGP, that carries on, in case Gloucester may not be the choice at
      some point. My concern as a promoter and as the Director of the MAC
      series is that a move in dates for 2006 will make both the New
      England and the Mid-Atlantic UCI series revert back to the drawing
      board, as it relates to scheduling.
      > The impact of a date change from the last weekend in October will
      directly impact no less than eight-ten other UCI events. As it stands
      now there are ZERO date conflicts for the UCI races on the East
      Coast, sixteen in total. The NECCS & MAC series have worked
      diligently to ensure this, while keeping dates open for Michigan &
      NC. As promoters we have all went to great lengths to solidify our
      dates for 2006, even earlier this year.
      > Unless there is a date issue with the Gloucester venue, or
      Gloucester will not be the USGP venue, I respectfully request that NO
      change in date be made for 2006. Any change in date could be
      implemented in 2007. We are too close to the NATS promoter's meeting
      to ask promoters to go back to their respective venues and request
      date changes.
      > Thank you in advance for your consideration.
      > Regards,
      > Mike Hebe
      > Race Director Lower Allen Classic UCI C2
      > Director VERGE Mid-Atlantic Cyclocross series
      >
    • Adam Hodges Myerson
      The only change in the points that I m aware of is that there will be MORE points for C1 and C2 races next year, to balance the large amount of points
      Message 2 of 22 , Nov 30, 2005
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        The only change in the points that I'm aware of is that there will be MORE
        points for C1 and C2 races next year, to balance the large amount of points
        available for World Cups.

        If there's something else you've heard, or you've interpreted it differently
        then that, then definitely let us know.

        Our expenses won't change next year.

        Adam


        on 11/30/05 3:33 PM, finasport1 at finasport@... wrote:

        > Dear Mike.
        >
        > I appreciate the situation and we are doing our best to get this
        > clarified. As you read from Paul, Gloucester does have issues with
        > the date. We are also having issues, largely due to the fact that
        > the UCI needs dates set before the season even ends. That is
        > challenging to say the least. We would like to have the same dates
        > every year, but as is the case for 2006 it looks like that might not
        > be possible. There are so many different scenarios floating right
        > now that it is not even reasonable to explain them all.
        >
        > Other complaints that we faced this year that may or may not be
        > solvable are that teams such as TIAA CREF and last season, Maxxis did
        > not appreciate that we were going coast to coast to coast this
        > season. They want their full support vehicles there and were unable
        > to have that since it involved that travel.
        >
        > Not that this matters either, but from what I have heard there will
        > be a change in the UCI points counting system that may make it less
        > reasonable to have UCI races everywhere. Adam will have to fill us
        > in. This may impact the decisions of promoters in the future but I
        > am not clear as to how yet.
        >
        > Mike, I wish I could be more clear but until it is done, it is not
        > done. I am sorry for that. We will do our best.
        >
        > Bruce
        >
        >
        > --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hebe" <mhebe@e...> wrote:
        >>
        >> Paul, Bruce, Geoff and my fellow UCI promoters
        >> I understand the desire to set a distinct date for an East Coast
        > USGP, that carries on, in case Gloucester may not be the choice at
        > some point. My concern as a promoter and as the Director of the MAC
        > series is that a move in dates for 2006 will make both the New
        > England and the Mid-Atlantic UCI series revert back to the drawing
        > board, as it relates to scheduling.
        >> The impact of a date change from the last weekend in October will
        > directly impact no less than eight-ten other UCI events. As it stands
        > now there are ZERO date conflicts for the UCI races on the East
        > Coast, sixteen in total. The NECCS & MAC series have worked
        > diligently to ensure this, while keeping dates open for Michigan &
        > NC. As promoters we have all went to great lengths to solidify our
        > dates for 2006, even earlier this year.
        >> Unless there is a date issue with the Gloucester venue, or
        > Gloucester will not be the USGP venue, I respectfully request that NO
        > change in date be made for 2006. Any change in date could be
        > implemented in 2007. We are too close to the NATS promoter's meeting
        > to ask promoters to go back to their respective venues and request
        > date changes.
        >> Thank you in advance for your consideration.
        >> Regards,
        >> Mike Hebe
        >> Race Director Lower Allen Classic UCI C2
        >> Director VERGE Mid-Atlantic Cyclocross series
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Adam Hodges Myerson
        Organizers, I think it s important to think back to why this group of US UCI cyclo-cross organizers exists, and why there s a national cyclo-cross racing
        Message 3 of 22 , Nov 30, 2005
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          Organizers,

          I think it's important to think back to why this group of US UCI cyclo-cross
          organizers exists, and why there's a national cyclo-cross racing calendar
          with healthy, stable, individual races across the country. Essentially, it
          was a reaction to the lack of organization of the national series at the
          time. The rest of us were organized, had our dates set a year in advance
          with no problem, and were working together. As late as September, the bomb
          of the SuperCup was regularly dropped on us, which left everyone scrambling
          to get out of the way to save their own races.

          When the SuperCup went away, what was left? Again, a healthy, stable, NRC of
          individual race organizers across the country. High level 'cross didn't die,
          it blossomed with the room it head above its head.

          For the group of US organizers at this point, it's not reasonable for the
          USGP to operate in a vacuum or to assume that all the other US UCI
          organizers should have to plan around it while it operates on a different
          timetable than the rest of us. The USGP only exists because of the work of
          individual promoters who were already organizing successful events. How is
          it that we find ourselves once again in the situation where every race in
          the country has its dates set other than the national series, when it should
          be the other way around?

          The fact that we need to know our dates more than a year in advance is not a
          negative; it's a reflection of the kind of organization necessary to
          organize a quality, stable event that's rooted and has support in its
          community and the racing scene. Races should have stability, history, and
          tradition, or should be working towards that. Yearly date changes disrupt
          that, and have a ripple effect that disrupts the entire calendar. If the
          USGP is supposed to set the standard, then it should be organized better,
          and sooner, than all of the other US races.

          If the USGP needs to reconsider its dates, it needs to do so in an open way
          that involves discussion with ALL the events on the NRC. It can't operate as
          a wrecking ball like the SuperCup did. The scene is much too unified now to
          allow that to take place.

          We've seen that the NW races have committed to their dates. We haven't heard
          from California, but we have heard from Bruce that there needs to be
          geographical flow to the GP schedule. At the same time, we hear that
          Gloucester is getting pressured to go earlier.

          Logically, if the NW is set then I would expect the second race to be in CA,
          and the finals to be in Gloucester. However, since Gloucester has to go
          early, you'd expect it to perhaps be the first race in the series.

          My expectation would be that the GP would set it's dates, and consider
          moving it's races around on those dates, so as not to disrupt the schedule
          or operate at the expense of other race organizers who are announcing their
          dates in good faith.

          I'm sympathetic to the pressure Gloucester is under right now. But let's say
          they do move forward 2 weeks, to the 14/15 of October. First, that could be
          possible, and they could swap with New Gloucester, ME for those dates and
          maintain the flow of the calendar. But we've heard no discussion to that
          effect yet, and we need to if this is a possible scenario.

          Second, moving forward will not address the risk of damage to the course you
          wish to avoid. Anyone who was at Maine this year on the weekend Gloucester
          is talking about moving to remembers it as the muddiest race we've had all
          season so far. We had a week of rain in New England that didn't end until
          Sunday. What would have happened if Gloucester was on that date this year?
          Would you have to move to September?

          Everyone on this list, and every cyclo-cross rider in the US, supports and
          wants to see a successful USGP, myself included. We need BOTH a national
          racing calendar of events week in and week out, as well as a national series
          that brings all the best riders together for a few select races. Every
          organizer on this list is willing to be flexible, open, and cooperative with
          the USGP to make sure that it's a success. But it needs to go both ways, and
          we all need to be part of that process if it's going to go forward in a
          successful way.

          Mike's e-mail was reasonable, in my opinion, and reflected what I think many
          of us are feeling. We're all ready to go, and none of us want to have our
          seats kicked out from under us.

          So Bruce, what I think we all need to hear is, what exactly are your
          desires, what are your limiters, and what are the possible scenarios?

          Adam


          on 11/30/05 3:33 PM, finasport1 at finasport@... wrote:

          > Dear Mike.
          >
          > I appreciate the situation and we are doing our best to get this
          > clarified. As you read from Paul, Gloucester does have issues with
          > the date. We are also having issues, largely due to the fact that
          > the UCI needs dates set before the season even ends. That is
          > challenging to say the least. We would like to have the same dates
          > every year, but as is the case for 2006 it looks like that might not
          > be possible. There are so many different scenarios floating right
          > now that it is not even reasonable to explain them all.
          >
          > Other complaints that we faced this year that may or may not be
          > solvable are that teams such as TIAA CREF and last season, Maxxis did
          > not appreciate that we were going coast to coast to coast this
          > season. They want their full support vehicles there and were unable
          > to have that since it involved that travel.
          >
          > Not that this matters either, but from what I have heard there will
          > be a change in the UCI points counting system that may make it less
          > reasonable to have UCI races everywhere. Adam will have to fill us
          > in. This may impact the decisions of promoters in the future but I
          > am not clear as to how yet.
          >
          > Mike, I wish I could be more clear but until it is done, it is not
          > done. I am sorry for that. We will do our best.
          >
          > Bruce
          >
          >
          > --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hebe" <mhebe@e...> wrote:
          >>
          >> Paul, Bruce, Geoff and my fellow UCI promoters
          >> I understand the desire to set a distinct date for an East Coast
          > USGP, that carries on, in case Gloucester may not be the choice at
          > some point. My concern as a promoter and as the Director of the MAC
          > series is that a move in dates for 2006 will make both the New
          > England and the Mid-Atlantic UCI series revert back to the drawing
          > board, as it relates to scheduling.
          >> The impact of a date change from the last weekend in October will
          > directly impact no less than eight-ten other UCI events. As it stands
          > now there are ZERO date conflicts for the UCI races on the East
          > Coast, sixteen in total. The NECCS & MAC series have worked
          > diligently to ensure this, while keeping dates open for Michigan &
          > NC. As promoters we have all went to great lengths to solidify our
          > dates for 2006, even earlier this year.
          >> Unless there is a date issue with the Gloucester venue, or
          > Gloucester will not be the USGP venue, I respectfully request that NO
          > change in date be made for 2006. Any change in date could be
          > implemented in 2007. We are too close to the NATS promoter's meeting
          > to ask promoters to go back to their respective venues and request
          > date changes.
          >> Thank you in advance for your consideration.
          >> Regards,
          >> Mike Hebe
          >> Race Director Lower Allen Classic UCI C2
          >> Director VERGE Mid-Atlantic Cyclocross series
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Jim Brown
          If I use the same venue as I did last year (Ft. Steilacoom) I have no issues with dates, early, mid, late, doesn t matter. I can hold a race there in any
          Message 4 of 22 , Nov 30, 2005
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            If I use the same venue as I did last year (Ft. Steilacoom) I have no issues
            with dates, early, mid, late, doesn't matter.
            I can hold a race there in any conditions and walk away without being yelled
            for tearing up grass, turf etc....that's partly why it's such a good venue.
            The course holds up whether it's dry or wet, and the Seattle series is not
            set.
            Seattle will schedule around my UCI race.
            I have been asked to try to find a more metro seattle race, if I were to
            find that then my flexibility goes waaaay down.
            Later in the season when it is wetter we tear the shit out of parks, I don't
            need a $10,000 turf replacement bill.
            If you do this in a high profile metro setting then you probably will never
            be back.(ala Jackson Middle School Portland)
            Not sure that Brad in Portland has the same flexibility as I do, and it
            sounds like some of the other promoters do not have much flexibility either.
            If my race is selected to be a USGP then I will do a UCI race, and I can do
            it whenever the GP folks request that it be done.(At Steilacoom)
            If I am not selected then I will not be promoting a UCI race in 2006.

            UCI Inscription forms are due December 15th, that is what is driving me to
            get this sorted out.

            my 2 cents
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Adam Hodges Myerson" <adam@...>
            To: "USAICO" <USAICO@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 1:58 PM
            Subject: Re: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates


            > Organizers,
            >
            > I think it's important to think back to why this group of US UCI
            > cyclo-cross
            > organizers exists, and why there's a national cyclo-cross racing calendar
            > with healthy, stable, individual races across the country. Essentially, it
            > was a reaction to the lack of organization of the national series at the
            > time. The rest of us were organized, had our dates set a year in advance
            > with no problem, and were working together. As late as September, the bomb
            > of the SuperCup was regularly dropped on us, which left everyone
            > scrambling
            > to get out of the way to save their own races.
            >
            > When the SuperCup went away, what was left? Again, a healthy, stable, NRC
            > of
            > individual race organizers across the country. High level 'cross didn't
            > die,
            > it blossomed with the room it head above its head.
            >
            > For the group of US organizers at this point, it's not reasonable for the
            > USGP to operate in a vacuum or to assume that all the other US UCI
            > organizers should have to plan around it while it operates on a different
            > timetable than the rest of us. The USGP only exists because of the work of
            > individual promoters who were already organizing successful events. How is
            > it that we find ourselves once again in the situation where every race in
            > the country has its dates set other than the national series, when it
            > should
            > be the other way around?
            >
            > The fact that we need to know our dates more than a year in advance is not
            > a
            > negative; it's a reflection of the kind of organization necessary to
            > organize a quality, stable event that's rooted and has support in its
            > community and the racing scene. Races should have stability, history, and
            > tradition, or should be working towards that. Yearly date changes disrupt
            > that, and have a ripple effect that disrupts the entire calendar. If the
            > USGP is supposed to set the standard, then it should be organized better,
            > and sooner, than all of the other US races.
            >
            > If the USGP needs to reconsider its dates, it needs to do so in an open
            > way
            > that involves discussion with ALL the events on the NRC. It can't operate
            > as
            > a wrecking ball like the SuperCup did. The scene is much too unified now
            > to
            > allow that to take place.
            >
            > We've seen that the NW races have committed to their dates. We haven't
            > heard
            > from California, but we have heard from Bruce that there needs to be
            > geographical flow to the GP schedule. At the same time, we hear that
            > Gloucester is getting pressured to go earlier.
            >
            > Logically, if the NW is set then I would expect the second race to be in
            > CA,
            > and the finals to be in Gloucester. However, since Gloucester has to go
            > early, you'd expect it to perhaps be the first race in the series.
            >
            > My expectation would be that the GP would set it's dates, and consider
            > moving it's races around on those dates, so as not to disrupt the schedule
            > or operate at the expense of other race organizers who are announcing
            > their
            > dates in good faith.
            >
            > I'm sympathetic to the pressure Gloucester is under right now. But let's
            > say
            > they do move forward 2 weeks, to the 14/15 of October. First, that could
            > be
            > possible, and they could swap with New Gloucester, ME for those dates and
            > maintain the flow of the calendar. But we've heard no discussion to that
            > effect yet, and we need to if this is a possible scenario.
            >
            > Second, moving forward will not address the risk of damage to the course
            > you
            > wish to avoid. Anyone who was at Maine this year on the weekend Gloucester
            > is talking about moving to remembers it as the muddiest race we've had all
            > season so far. We had a week of rain in New England that didn't end until
            > Sunday. What would have happened if Gloucester was on that date this year?
            > Would you have to move to September?
            >
            > Everyone on this list, and every cyclo-cross rider in the US, supports and
            > wants to see a successful USGP, myself included. We need BOTH a national
            > racing calendar of events week in and week out, as well as a national
            > series
            > that brings all the best riders together for a few select races. Every
            > organizer on this list is willing to be flexible, open, and cooperative
            > with
            > the USGP to make sure that it's a success. But it needs to go both ways,
            > and
            > we all need to be part of that process if it's going to go forward in a
            > successful way.
            >
            > Mike's e-mail was reasonable, in my opinion, and reflected what I think
            > many
            > of us are feeling. We're all ready to go, and none of us want to have our
            > seats kicked out from under us.
            >
            > So Bruce, what I think we all need to hear is, what exactly are your
            > desires, what are your limiters, and what are the possible scenarios?
            >
            > Adam
            >
            >
            > on 11/30/05 3:33 PM, finasport1 at finasport@... wrote:
            >
            >> Dear Mike.
            >>
            >> I appreciate the situation and we are doing our best to get this
            >> clarified. As you read from Paul, Gloucester does have issues with
            >> the date. We are also having issues, largely due to the fact that
            >> the UCI needs dates set before the season even ends. That is
            >> challenging to say the least. We would like to have the same dates
            >> every year, but as is the case for 2006 it looks like that might not
            >> be possible. There are so many different scenarios floating right
            >> now that it is not even reasonable to explain them all.
            >>
            >> Other complaints that we faced this year that may or may not be
            >> solvable are that teams such as TIAA CREF and last season, Maxxis did
            >> not appreciate that we were going coast to coast to coast this
            >> season. They want their full support vehicles there and were unable
            >> to have that since it involved that travel.
            >>
            >> Not that this matters either, but from what I have heard there will
            >> be a change in the UCI points counting system that may make it less
            >> reasonable to have UCI races everywhere. Adam will have to fill us
            >> in. This may impact the decisions of promoters in the future but I
            >> am not clear as to how yet.
            >>
            >> Mike, I wish I could be more clear but until it is done, it is not
            >> done. I am sorry for that. We will do our best.
            >>
            >> Bruce
            >>
            >>
            >> --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hebe" <mhebe@e...> wrote:
            >>>
            >>> Paul, Bruce, Geoff and my fellow UCI promoters
            >>> I understand the desire to set a distinct date for an East Coast
            >> USGP, that carries on, in case Gloucester may not be the choice at
            >> some point. My concern as a promoter and as the Director of the MAC
            >> series is that a move in dates for 2006 will make both the New
            >> England and the Mid-Atlantic UCI series revert back to the drawing
            >> board, as it relates to scheduling.
            >>> The impact of a date change from the last weekend in October will
            >> directly impact no less than eight-ten other UCI events. As it stands
            >> now there are ZERO date conflicts for the UCI races on the East
            >> Coast, sixteen in total. The NECCS & MAC series have worked
            >> diligently to ensure this, while keeping dates open for Michigan &
            >> NC. As promoters we have all went to great lengths to solidify our
            >> dates for 2006, even earlier this year.
            >>> Unless there is a date issue with the Gloucester venue, or
            >> Gloucester will not be the USGP venue, I respectfully request that NO
            >> change in date be made for 2006. Any change in date could be
            >> implemented in 2007. We are too close to the NATS promoter's meeting
            >> to ask promoters to go back to their respective venues and request
            >> date changes.
            >>> Thank you in advance for your consideration.
            >>> Regards,
            >>> Mike Hebe
            >>> Race Director Lower Allen Classic UCI C2
            >>> Director VERGE Mid-Atlantic Cyclocross series
            >>>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • boudreau.p@comcast.net
            Hi Adam, all, Will read this further when I get home from the office but just to respond to one thing Adam mentioned: Second, moving forward will not address
            Message 5 of 22 , Nov 30, 2005
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              Hi Adam, all,

              Will read this further when I get home from the office but just to respond to one thing Adam mentioned:

              "Second, moving forward will not address the risk of damage to the course you
              wish to avoid. Anyone who was at Maine this year on the weekend Gloucester
              is talking about moving to remembers it as the muddiest race we've had all
              season so far. We had a week of rain in New England that didn't end until
              Sunday. What would have happened if Gloucester was on that date this year?
              Would you have to move to September?"

              True that there are no guarantees about the weather - who would have thought we'd get snow on Oct 29? But the even bigger variable I have to deal with is the perception of our event by the City of Gloucester. We've had rain at Gloucester and the result hasn't been that bad, both in my view and in the City's view. 29 October was our first snow and the damage was worse than we've ever had. From the point of view of the City:

              * Sun = ideal
              * rain - drains sufficiently that it's not bad on the park
              * Snow - trashes the place

              So to answer your comment Adam, I'm not only fighting the weather, I'm fighting the City's perception of the issue. So if the City sees moving the race by a couple of weeks as greatly reducing the chances of snowfall, this may be the only way we can have our event.

              -paul
            • Adam Hodges Myerson
              Understood completely, Paul. I think this is why I think I speak for all of us when I say that I m sympathetic to your situation. We ve all had this pressure
              Message 6 of 22 , Nov 30, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Understood completely, Paul. I think this is why I think I speak for all of
                us when I say that I'm sympathetic to your situation. We've all had this
                pressure put on us, especially if we're racing in city parks, like you and I
                both are.

                Adam


                on 11/30/05 5:30 PM, boudreau.p@... at boudreau.p@... wrote:

                > Hi Adam, all,
                >
                > Will read this further when I get home from the office but just to respond to
                > one thing Adam mentioned:
                >
                > "Second, moving forward will not address the risk of damage to the course you
                > wish to avoid. Anyone who was at Maine this year on the weekend Gloucester
                > is talking about moving to remembers it as the muddiest race we've had all
                > season so far. We had a week of rain in New England that didn't end until
                > Sunday. What would have happened if Gloucester was on that date this year?
                > Would you have to move to September?"
                >
                > True that there are no guarantees about the weather - who would have thought
                > we'd get snow on Oct 29? But the even bigger variable I have to deal with is
                > the perception of our event by the City of Gloucester. We've had rain at
                > Gloucester and the result hasn't been that bad, both in my view and in the
                > City's view. 29 October was our first snow and the damage was worse than we've
                > ever had. From the point of view of the City:
                >
                > * Sun = ideal
                > * rain - drains sufficiently that it's not bad on the park
                > * Snow - trashes the place
                >
                > So to answer your comment Adam, I'm not only fighting the weather, I'm
                > fighting the City's perception of the issue. So if the City sees moving the
                > race by a couple of weeks as greatly reducing the chances of snowfall, this
                > may be the only way we can have our event.
                >
                > -paul
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • John @ Rainbow Bike
                Paul and Adam, I really don t want to change my dates, I m not sure what Pineland Farms ( venue) would say since I just met with them 2 weeks ago to solidify
                Message 7 of 22 , Nov 30, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Paul and Adam,
                  I really don't want to change my dates, I'm not sure what Pineland Farms
                  ( venue) would say since I just met with them 2 weeks ago to solidify next
                  season's races. If Gloucester is thinking of swapping dates They better
                  speak up within the next 48 hours and talk to me first.
                  As an aside, look at the past years history on that weekend and you
                  would be amazed how often the weather patterns repeat themselves. I would
                  not wish the weather we had in Maine on anyone. If you had that rainfall in
                  Gloucester 2 weeks later, the damage would have been much worse than what
                  you had from the snowstorm. Luckily the folks at Pineland Farms like the
                  event and want us back.
                  What happens next year if Gloucester has a lousy turnout, weather,
                  complaints from the city, etc. Will someone be expected to change their
                  dates to accomodate them again?
                  John

                  John Grenier - Owner
                  Rainbow Bicycle & Fitness
                  1225 Center St.
                  Auburn, ME 04210
                  207-784-7576
                  800-244-7576
                  Fax-207-777-5533
                  www.rainbowbike.com
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Adam Hodges Myerson" <adam@...>
                  To: "USAICO" <USAICO@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 4:58 PM
                  Subject: Re: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates


                  > Organizers,
                  >
                  > I think it's important to think back to why this group of US UCI
                  > cyclo-cross
                  > organizers exists, and why there's a national cyclo-cross racing calendar
                  > with healthy, stable, individual races across the country. Essentially, it
                  > was a reaction to the lack of organization of the national series at the
                  > time. The rest of us were organized, had our dates set a year in advance
                  > with no problem, and were working together. As late as September, the bomb
                  > of the SuperCup was regularly dropped on us, which left everyone
                  > scrambling
                  > to get out of the way to save their own races.
                  >
                  > When the SuperCup went away, what was left? Again, a healthy, stable, NRC
                  > of
                  > individual race organizers across the country. High level 'cross didn't
                  > die,
                  > it blossomed with the room it head above its head.
                  >
                  > For the group of US organizers at this point, it's not reasonable for the
                  > USGP to operate in a vacuum or to assume that all the other US UCI
                  > organizers should have to plan around it while it operates on a different
                  > timetable than the rest of us. The USGP only exists because of the work of
                  > individual promoters who were already organizing successful events. How is
                  > it that we find ourselves once again in the situation where every race in
                  > the country has its dates set other than the national series, when it
                  > should
                  > be the other way around?
                  >
                  > The fact that we need to know our dates more than a year in advance is not
                  > a
                  > negative; it's a reflection of the kind of organization necessary to
                  > organize a quality, stable event that's rooted and has support in its
                  > community and the racing scene. Races should have stability, history, and
                  > tradition, or should be working towards that. Yearly date changes disrupt
                  > that, and have a ripple effect that disrupts the entire calendar. If the
                  > USGP is supposed to set the standard, then it should be organized better,
                  > and sooner, than all of the other US races.
                  >
                  > If the USGP needs to reconsider its dates, it needs to do so in an open
                  > way
                  > that involves discussion with ALL the events on the NRC. It can't operate
                  > as
                  > a wrecking ball like the SuperCup did. The scene is much too unified now
                  > to
                  > allow that to take place.
                  >
                  > We've seen that the NW races have committed to their dates. We haven't
                  > heard
                  > from California, but we have heard from Bruce that there needs to be
                  > geographical flow to the GP schedule. At the same time, we hear that
                  > Gloucester is getting pressured to go earlier.
                  >
                  > Logically, if the NW is set then I would expect the second race to be in
                  > CA,
                  > and the finals to be in Gloucester. However, since Gloucester has to go
                  > early, you'd expect it to perhaps be the first race in the series.
                  >
                  > My expectation would be that the GP would set it's dates, and consider
                  > moving it's races around on those dates, so as not to disrupt the schedule
                  > or operate at the expense of other race organizers who are announcing
                  > their
                  > dates in good faith.
                  >
                  > I'm sympathetic to the pressure Gloucester is under right now. But let's
                  > say
                  > they do move forward 2 weeks, to the 14/15 of October. First, that could
                  > be
                  > possible, and they could swap with New Gloucester, ME for those dates and
                  > maintain the flow of the calendar. But we've heard no discussion to that
                  > effect yet, and we need to if this is a possible scenario.
                  >
                  > Second, moving forward will not address the risk of damage to the course
                  > you
                  > wish to avoid. Anyone who was at Maine this year on the weekend Gloucester
                  > is talking about moving to remembers it as the muddiest race we've had all
                  > season so far. We had a week of rain in New England that didn't end until
                  > Sunday. What would have happened if Gloucester was on that date this year?
                  > Would you have to move to September?
                  >
                  > Everyone on this list, and every cyclo-cross rider in the US, supports and
                  > wants to see a successful USGP, myself included. We need BOTH a national
                  > racing calendar of events week in and week out, as well as a national
                  > series
                  > that brings all the best riders together for a few select races. Every
                  > organizer on this list is willing to be flexible, open, and cooperative
                  > with
                  > the USGP to make sure that it's a success. But it needs to go both ways,
                  > and
                  > we all need to be part of that process if it's going to go forward in a
                  > successful way.
                  >
                  > Mike's e-mail was reasonable, in my opinion, and reflected what I think
                  > many
                  > of us are feeling. We're all ready to go, and none of us want to have our
                  > seats kicked out from under us.
                  >
                  > So Bruce, what I think we all need to hear is, what exactly are your
                  > desires, what are your limiters, and what are the possible scenarios?
                  >
                  > Adam
                  >
                  >
                  > on 11/30/05 3:33 PM, finasport1 at finasport@... wrote:
                  >
                  >> Dear Mike.
                  >>
                  >> I appreciate the situation and we are doing our best to get this
                  >> clarified. As you read from Paul, Gloucester does have issues with
                  >> the date. We are also having issues, largely due to the fact that
                  >> the UCI needs dates set before the season even ends. That is
                  >> challenging to say the least. We would like to have the same dates
                  >> every year, but as is the case for 2006 it looks like that might not
                  >> be possible. There are so many different scenarios floating right
                  >> now that it is not even reasonable to explain them all.
                  >>
                  >> Other complaints that we faced this year that may or may not be
                  >> solvable are that teams such as TIAA CREF and last season, Maxxis did
                  >> not appreciate that we were going coast to coast to coast this
                  >> season. They want their full support vehicles there and were unable
                  >> to have that since it involved that travel.
                  >>
                  >> Not that this matters either, but from what I have heard there will
                  >> be a change in the UCI points counting system that may make it less
                  >> reasonable to have UCI races everywhere. Adam will have to fill us
                  >> in. This may impact the decisions of promoters in the future but I
                  >> am not clear as to how yet.
                  >>
                  >> Mike, I wish I could be more clear but until it is done, it is not
                  >> done. I am sorry for that. We will do our best.
                  >>
                  >> Bruce
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hebe" <mhebe@e...> wrote:
                  >>>
                  >>> Paul, Bruce, Geoff and my fellow UCI promoters
                  >>> I understand the desire to set a distinct date for an East Coast
                  >> USGP, that carries on, in case Gloucester may not be the choice at
                  >> some point. My concern as a promoter and as the Director of the MAC
                  >> series is that a move in dates for 2006 will make both the New
                  >> England and the Mid-Atlantic UCI series revert back to the drawing
                  >> board, as it relates to scheduling.
                  >>> The impact of a date change from the last weekend in October will
                  >> directly impact no less than eight-ten other UCI events. As it stands
                  >> now there are ZERO date conflicts for the UCI races on the East
                  >> Coast, sixteen in total. The NECCS & MAC series have worked
                  >> diligently to ensure this, while keeping dates open for Michigan &
                  >> NC. As promoters we have all went to great lengths to solidify our
                  >> dates for 2006, even earlier this year.
                  >>> Unless there is a date issue with the Gloucester venue, or
                  >> Gloucester will not be the USGP venue, I respectfully request that NO
                  >> change in date be made for 2006. Any change in date could be
                  >> implemented in 2007. We are too close to the NATS promoter's meeting
                  >> to ask promoters to go back to their respective venues and request
                  >> date changes.
                  >>> Thank you in advance for your consideration.
                  >>> Regards,
                  >>> Mike Hebe
                  >>> Race Director Lower Allen Classic UCI C2
                  >>> Director VERGE Mid-Atlantic Cyclocross series
                  >>>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Boudreau Paul
                  Hi John, I still have more dialog going on with the City so other than saying the last weekend of October doesn t work, I don t have much to say on specific
                  Message 8 of 22 , Nov 30, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi John,

                    I still have more dialog going on with the City so other than saying the last weekend of October doesn't work, I don't have much to say on specific dates right now. 

                    For purposes of this discussion, the weather is irrelevant. The City of Gloucester believes what it believes. 

                    When I know more, I'll share everything with you all.

                    -paul

                    ______________


                    Paul Boudreau

                    Race Director

                    Gran Prix of Gloucester

                    e paul@...

                    w gpgloucester.com

                    aim paullybnikon



                    On Nov 30, 2005, at 7:33 PM, John @ Rainbow Bike wrote:

                    Paul and Adam,
                      I really don't want to change my dates, I'm not sure what Pineland Farms
                    ( venue) would say since I just met with them 2 weeks ago to solidify next
                    season's races. If Gloucester is thinking of swapping dates They better
                    speak up within the next 48 hours and talk to me first.
                        As an aside, look at the past years history on that weekend and you
                    would be amazed how often the weather patterns repeat themselves. I would
                    not wish the weather we had in Maine on anyone. If you had that rainfall in
                    Gloucester 2 weeks later, the damage would have been much worse than what
                    you had from the snowstorm. Luckily the folks at Pineland Farms like the
                    event and want us back.
                         What happens next year if Gloucester has a lousy turnout, weather,
                    complaints from the city, etc. Will someone be expected to change their
                    dates to accomodate them again?
                    John

                    John Grenier - Owner
                    Rainbow Bicycle & Fitness
                    1225 Center St.
                    Auburn, ME 04210
                    207-784-7576
                    800-244-7576
                    Fax-207-777-5533
                    www.rainbowbike.com
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Adam Hodges Myerson" <adam@...>
                    To: "USAICO" <USAICO@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 4:58 PM
                    Subject: Re: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates


                    > Organizers,
                    >
                    > I think it's important to think back to why this group of US UCI
                    > cyclo-cross
                    > organizers exists, and why there's a national cyclo-cross racing calendar
                    > with healthy, stable, individual races across the country. Essentially, it
                    > was a reaction to the lack of organization of the national series at the
                    > time. The rest of us were organized, had our dates set a year in advance
                    > with no problem, and were working together. As late as September, the bomb
                    > of the SuperCup was regularly dropped on us, which left everyone
                    > scrambling
                    > to get out of the way to save their own races.
                    >
                    > When the SuperCup went away, what was left? Again, a healthy, stable, NRC
                    > of
                    > individual race organizers across the country. High level 'cross didn't
                    > die,
                    > it blossomed with the room it head above its head.
                    >
                    > For the group of US organizers at this point, it's not reasonable for the
                    > USGP to operate in a vacuum or to assume that all the other US UCI
                    > organizers should have to plan around it while it operates on a different
                    > timetable than the rest of us. The USGP only exists because of the work of
                    > individual promoters who were already organizing successful events. How is
                    > it that we find ourselves once again in the situation where every race in
                    > the country has its dates set other than the national series, when it
                    > should
                    > be the other way around?
                    >
                    > The fact that we need to know our dates more than a year in advance is not
                    > a
                    > negative; it's a reflection of the kind of organization necessary to
                    > organize a quality, stable event that's rooted and has support in its
                    > community and the racing scene. Races should have stability, history, and
                    > tradition, or should be working towards that. Yearly date changes disrupt
                    > that, and have a ripple effect that disrupts the entire calendar. If the
                    > USGP is supposed to set the standard, then it should be organized better,
                    > and sooner, than all of the other US races.
                    >
                    > If the USGP needs to reconsider its dates, it needs to do so in an open
                    > way
                    > that involves discussion with ALL the events on the NRC. It can't operate
                    > as
                    > a wrecking ball like the SuperCup did. The scene is much too unified now
                    > to
                    > allow that to take place.
                    >
                    > We've seen that the NW races have committed to their dates. We haven't
                    > heard
                    > from California, but we have heard from Bruce that there needs to be
                    > geographical flow to the GP schedule. At the same time, we hear that
                    > Gloucester is getting pressured to go earlier.
                    >
                    > Logically, if the NW is set then I would expect the second race to be in
                    > CA,
                    > and the finals to be in Gloucester. However, since Gloucester has to go
                    > early, you'd expect it to perhaps be the first race in the series.
                    >
                    > My expectation would be that the GP would set it's dates, and consider
                    > moving it's races around on those dates, so as not to disrupt the schedule
                    > or operate at the expense of other race organizers who are announcing
                    > their
                    > dates in good faith.
                    >
                    > I'm sympathetic to the pressure Gloucester is under right now. But let's
                    > say
                    > they do move forward 2 weeks, to the 14/15 of October. First, that could
                    > be
                    > possible, and they could swap with New Gloucester, ME for those dates and
                    > maintain the flow of the calendar. But we've heard no discussion to that
                    > effect yet, and we need to if this is a possible scenario.
                    >
                    > Second, moving forward will not address the risk of damage to the course
                    > you
                    > wish to avoid. Anyone who was at Maine this year on the weekend Gloucester
                    > is talking about moving to remembers it as the muddiest race we've had all
                    > season so far. We had a week of rain in New England that didn't end until
                    > Sunday. What would have happened if Gloucester was on that date this year?
                    > Would you have to move to September?
                    >
                    > Everyone on this list, and every cyclo-cross rider in the US, supports and
                    > wants to see a successful USGP, myself included. We need BOTH a national
                    > racing calendar of events week in and week out, as well as a national
                    > series
                    > that brings all the best riders together for a few select races. Every
                    > organizer on this list is willing to be flexible, open, and cooperative
                    > with
                    > the USGP to make sure that it's a success. But it needs to go both ways,
                    > and
                    > we all need to be part of that process if it's going to go forward in a
                    > successful way.
                    >
                    > Mike's e-mail was reasonable, in my opinion, and reflected what I think
                    > many
                    > of us are feeling. We're all ready to go, and none of us want to have our
                    > seats kicked out from under us.
                    >
                    > So Bruce, what I think we all need to hear is, what exactly are your
                    > desires, what are your limiters, and what are the possible scenarios?
                    >
                    > Adam
                    >
                    >
                    > on 11/30/05 3:33 PM, finasport1 at finasport@... wrote:
                    >
                    >> Dear Mike.
                    >>
                    >> I appreciate the situation and we are doing our best to get this
                    >> clarified.  As you read from Paul, Gloucester does have issues with
                    >> the date.  We are also having issues, largely due to the fact that
                    >> the UCI needs dates set before the season even ends.  That is
                    >> challenging to say the least.   We would like to have the same dates
                    >> every year, but as is the case for 2006 it looks like that might not
                    >> be possible.  There are so many different scenarios floating right
                    >> now that it is not even reasonable to explain them all.
                    >>
                    >> Other complaints that we faced this year that may or may not be
                    >> solvable are that teams such as TIAA CREF and last season, Maxxis did
                    >> not appreciate that we were going coast to coast to coast this
                    >> season.  They want their full support vehicles there and were unable
                    >> to have that since it involved that travel.
                    >>
                    >> Not that this matters either, but from what I have heard there will
                    >> be a change in the UCI points counting system that may make it less
                    >> reasonable to have UCI races everywhere.  Adam will have to fill us
                    >> in.  This may impact the decisions of promoters in the future but I
                    >> am not clear as to how yet.
                    >>
                    >> Mike, I wish I could be more clear but until it is done, it is not
                    >> done.  I am sorry for that.  We will do our best.
                    >>
                    >> Bruce
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hebe" <mhebe@e...> wrote:
                    >>>
                    >>> Paul, Bruce, Geoff and my fellow UCI promoters
                    >>> I understand the desire to set a distinct date for an East Coast
                    >> USGP, that carries on, in case Gloucester may not be the choice at
                    >> some point. My concern as a promoter and as the Director of the MAC
                    >> series is that a move in dates for 2006 will make both the New
                    >> England and the Mid-Atlantic UCI series revert back to the drawing
                    >> board, as it relates to scheduling.
                    >>> The impact of a date change from the last weekend in October will
                    >> directly impact no less than eight-ten other UCI events. As it stands
                    >> now there are ZERO date conflicts for the UCI races on the East
                    >> Coast, sixteen in total. The NECCS & MAC  series have worked
                    >> diligently to ensure this, while keeping dates open for Michigan &
                    >> NC. As promoters we have all went to great lengths to solidify our
                    >> dates for 2006, even earlier this year.
                    >>> Unless there is a date issue with the Gloucester venue, or
                    >> Gloucester will not be the USGP venue, I respectfully request that NO
                    >> change in date be made for 2006. Any change in date could be
                    >> implemented in 2007. We are too close to the NATS promoter's meeting
                    >> to ask promoters to go back to their respective venues and request
                    >> date changes.
                    >>> Thank you in advance for your consideration.
                    >>> Regards,
                    >>> Mike Hebe
                    >>> Race Director Lower Allen Classic UCI C2
                    >>> Director VERGE Mid-Atlantic Cyclocross series
                    >>>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >



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                  • finasport1
                    Dear Adam: Thanks for your mail. As the newly appointed US Representative for Cross to the UCI I think you should remain neutral and supportive to all here.
                    Message 9 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Dear Adam:

                      Thanks for your mail. As the newly appointed US Representative for
                      Cross to the UCI I think you should remain neutral and supportive to
                      all here. I do not enjoy hearing you criticize the USGP both
                      privately and publicly all of the time, instead of directly to us or
                      me in a reasonable and professional manner. We are trying hard to
                      provide world class racing in the US. Between Geoff Proctor and
                      myself we have over 15 years of experience managing and, in Geoff's
                      case racing, at a World Cup and World Championship level. Not that
                      we are not above criticism, we are harsher on ourselves than anyone
                      else could be.

                      The recent results of Ryan Trebon are proof that what we are doing is
                      succeeding. He left the US after winning only 2 of the 4 USGPs he
                      raced and then was able to finish 9th in a UCI Cat 1 in Belgium this
                      past weekend. The class of US racing is getting better and better,
                      as you stated in your DVD "Transition," at a USGP last season.

                      I respect what each and every promoter is undertaking to organize a
                      race and we can go back in time, even you Adam, and thank guys like
                      Clark Natwick and Lyle Fulkerson, for paving our way for us. Those
                      guys really did the hardest work and put thier butts on the line for
                      the sport.

                      What the USGP needs is the support and patience of the cross
                      community to understand that what we are trying to do is
                      complicated. We are always playing with fire and there is no way to
                      do that in a communist open forum. If we do that, the whole thing
                      will certainly collapse. For instance, it was very hard to make a
                      decision to go to California and not to Highland Park. Craig
                      McCallan and Steve Litvin were nothing but professional to work with
                      and I think we still have a great relationship. They ran a great
                      race and I would go back there in a heartbeat with a USGP. That
                      said, from a national perspective we thought it would be a good idea
                      to try to have races in the Northern California. Now we cannot just
                      pick one, we have to find a way to get 2. The thinking behind that
                      when the series was founded in a conversation between myself and
                      Charles Pelkey at Monopoli, Italy, was that we need to make it
                      reasonable for riders to travel. Especially the Juniors and U 23,
                      but also those like Anne Knapp, who besides being the best woman in
                      US Cross History, works for a living and cannot fly around the
                      country each week.

                      So the point there is that we need to deal with peoples feelings and
                      emotions and this cannot be done in a public forum. Would you like
                      to get fired from a job in front of all your peers? Even if you were
                      great at what you do. But the company changed directions. Well
                      that is how we feel every day. Someone, will always damn us because
                      we cannot go everywhere and from the start, we thought 6 races over 3
                      weekends is enough.

                      So that is just number one on a long list of challenges. We are
                      taking into account the thought of each and every promoter and trying
                      to meld them together into a series. A huge challenge that Lyle
                      Fulkerson can probably attest to. And as a National Series, we are
                      striving to step up from the status of a great US race to that which
                      attracts more people to our sport to spectate. Cross is the best
                      discipline in Cycling for spectators. Maybe track can also be
                      interesting, I do not really know. But we are taking into account
                      things outside that might affect us, like other pro sports and other
                      local activities around each race. I can only say that I think it
                      is far more complicated than meets the eye.

                      While I also would like to be organized 2 years in advance it is also
                      not really reasonable for us with such a short history. Remember,
                      that the New England Series and the MAC have a head start. We are
                      growing and learning. And People like Tom Simpson are not going to
                      commit to a race or a date until they have at least had one year
                      under thier belt with a USGP. Also, you know yourself from your
                      experience in Worcester that it is hard to commit to a race so
                      early. Remember that your Worcester race was on the USGP calender
                      until you cancelled for lack of funding. To avoid the trials and
                      tribultations of that, we are doing our best to make sure we have
                      solid promoters. We do not want to have Super Cup surprises in
                      Septmeber. We have done everything we can to bend over backwards
                      with the USGP promoters to not push them until we at least understand
                      them and their challenges. This includes being patient to see what
                      they do with their races. After 2 seasons we now think that we can
                      start to offer each and every promoter more and more in the way of
                      best practices we have learned from the races around the country as
                      well as our European experience.

                      Ok, enough I think, as Myles said, that is my 2 cents. I appreciate
                      everyones effort to get this done and make it work. We would like to
                      do our part and we hope that at least some of you have gotten benefit
                      out of the USGP existing. Such as increased interest, or as Myles
                      mentioned increased racers at a weekend before or after a USGP in the
                      area.

                      Sincerely Your

                      Bruce



                      --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, Adam Hodges Myerson <adam@c...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Organizers,
                      >
                      > I think it's important to think back to why this group of US UCI
                      cyclo-cross
                      > organizers exists, and why there's a national cyclo-cross racing
                      calendar
                      > with healthy, stable, individual races across the country.
                      Essentially, it
                      > was a reaction to the lack of organization of the national series
                      at the
                      > time. The rest of us were organized, had our dates set a year in
                      advance
                      > with no problem, and were working together. As late as September,
                      the bomb
                      > of the SuperCup was regularly dropped on us, which left everyone
                      scrambling
                      > to get out of the way to save their own races.
                      >
                      > When the SuperCup went away, what was left? Again, a healthy,
                      stable, NRC of
                      > individual race organizers across the country. High level 'cross
                      didn't die,
                      > it blossomed with the room it head above its head.
                      >
                      > For the group of US organizers at this point, it's not reasonable
                      for the
                      > USGP to operate in a vacuum or to assume that all the other US UCI
                      > organizers should have to plan around it while it operates on a
                      different
                      > timetable than the rest of us. The USGP only exists because of the
                      work of
                      > individual promoters who were already organizing successful events.
                      How is
                      > it that we find ourselves once again in the situation where every
                      race in
                      > the country has its dates set other than the national series, when
                      it should
                      > be the other way around?
                      >
                      > The fact that we need to know our dates more than a year in advance
                      is not a
                      > negative; it's a reflection of the kind of organization necessary to
                      > organize a quality, stable event that's rooted and has support in
                      its
                      > community and the racing scene. Races should have stability,
                      history, and
                      > tradition, or should be working towards that. Yearly date changes
                      disrupt
                      > that, and have a ripple effect that disrupts the entire calendar.
                      If the
                      > USGP is supposed to set the standard, then it should be organized
                      better,
                      > and sooner, than all of the other US races.
                      >
                      > If the USGP needs to reconsider its dates, it needs to do so in an
                      open way
                      > that involves discussion with ALL the events on the NRC. It can't
                      operate as
                      > a wrecking ball like the SuperCup did. The scene is much too
                      unified now to
                      > allow that to take place.
                      >
                      > We've seen that the NW races have committed to their dates. We
                      haven't heard
                      > from California, but we have heard from Bruce that there needs to be
                      > geographical flow to the GP schedule. At the same time, we hear that
                      > Gloucester is getting pressured to go earlier.
                      >
                      > Logically, if the NW is set then I would expect the second race to
                      be in CA,
                      > and the finals to be in Gloucester. However, since Gloucester has
                      to go
                      > early, you'd expect it to perhaps be the first race in the series.
                      >
                      > My expectation would be that the GP would set it's dates, and
                      consider
                      > moving it's races around on those dates, so as not to disrupt the
                      schedule
                      > or operate at the expense of other race organizers who are
                      announcing their
                      > dates in good faith.
                      >
                      > I'm sympathetic to the pressure Gloucester is under right now. But
                      let's say
                      > they do move forward 2 weeks, to the 14/15 of October. First, that
                      could be
                      > possible, and they could swap with New Gloucester, ME for those
                      dates and
                      > maintain the flow of the calendar. But we've heard no discussion to
                      that
                      > effect yet, and we need to if this is a possible scenario.
                      >
                      > Second, moving forward will not address the risk of damage to the
                      course you
                      > wish to avoid. Anyone who was at Maine this year on the weekend
                      Gloucester
                      > is talking about moving to remembers it as the muddiest race we've
                      had all
                      > season so far. We had a week of rain in New England that didn't end
                      until
                      > Sunday. What would have happened if Gloucester was on that date
                      this year?
                      > Would you have to move to September?
                      >
                      > Everyone on this list, and every cyclo-cross rider in the US,
                      supports and
                      > wants to see a successful USGP, myself included. We need BOTH a
                      national
                      > racing calendar of events week in and week out, as well as a
                      national series
                      > that brings all the best riders together for a few select races.
                      Every
                      > organizer on this list is willing to be flexible, open, and
                      cooperative with
                      > the USGP to make sure that it's a success. But it needs to go both
                      ways, and
                      > we all need to be part of that process if it's going to go forward
                      in a
                      > successful way.
                      >
                      > Mike's e-mail was reasonable, in my opinion, and reflected what I
                      think many
                      > of us are feeling. We're all ready to go, and none of us want to
                      have our
                      > seats kicked out from under us.
                      >
                      > So Bruce, what I think we all need to hear is, what exactly are your
                      > desires, what are your limiters, and what are the possible
                      scenarios?
                      >
                      > Adam
                      >
                      >
                      > on 11/30/05 3:33 PM, finasport1 at finasport@a... wrote:
                      >
                      > > Dear Mike.
                      > >
                      > > I appreciate the situation and we are doing our best to get this
                      > > clarified. As you read from Paul, Gloucester does have issues
                      with
                      > > the date. We are also having issues, largely due to the fact that
                      > > the UCI needs dates set before the season even ends. That is
                      > > challenging to say the least. We would like to have the same
                      dates
                      > > every year, but as is the case for 2006 it looks like that might
                      not
                      > > be possible. There are so many different scenarios floating right
                      > > now that it is not even reasonable to explain them all.
                      > >
                      > > Other complaints that we faced this year that may or may not be
                      > > solvable are that teams such as TIAA CREF and last season, Maxxis
                      did
                      > > not appreciate that we were going coast to coast to coast this
                      > > season. They want their full support vehicles there and were
                      unable
                      > > to have that since it involved that travel.
                      > >
                      > > Not that this matters either, but from what I have heard there
                      will
                      > > be a change in the UCI points counting system that may make it
                      less
                      > > reasonable to have UCI races everywhere. Adam will have to fill
                      us
                      > > in. This may impact the decisions of promoters in the future but
                      I
                      > > am not clear as to how yet.
                      > >
                      > > Mike, I wish I could be more clear but until it is done, it is not
                      > > done. I am sorry for that. We will do our best.
                      > >
                      > > Bruce
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hebe" <mhebe@e...> wrote:
                      > >>
                      > >> Paul, Bruce, Geoff and my fellow UCI promoters
                      > >> I understand the desire to set a distinct date for an East Coast
                      > > USGP, that carries on, in case Gloucester may not be the choice at
                      > > some point. My concern as a promoter and as the Director of the
                      MAC
                      > > series is that a move in dates for 2006 will make both the New
                      > > England and the Mid-Atlantic UCI series revert back to the drawing
                      > > board, as it relates to scheduling.
                      > >> The impact of a date change from the last weekend in October will
                      > > directly impact no less than eight-ten other UCI events. As it
                      stands
                      > > now there are ZERO date conflicts for the UCI races on the East
                      > > Coast, sixteen in total. The NECCS & MAC series have worked
                      > > diligently to ensure this, while keeping dates open for Michigan &
                      > > NC. As promoters we have all went to great lengths to solidify our
                      > > dates for 2006, even earlier this year.
                      > >> Unless there is a date issue with the Gloucester venue, or
                      > > Gloucester will not be the USGP venue, I respectfully request
                      that NO
                      > > change in date be made for 2006. Any change in date could be
                      > > implemented in 2007. We are too close to the NATS promoter's
                      meeting
                      > > to ask promoters to go back to their respective venues and request
                      > > date changes.
                      > >> Thank you in advance for your consideration.
                      > >> Regards,
                      > >> Mike Hebe
                      > >> Race Director Lower Allen Classic UCI C2
                      > >> Director VERGE Mid-Atlantic Cyclocross series
                      > >>
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Tom McDaniel
                      Hi Bruce I for one am glad you have taken on the USGP. Congratulations on another successful year. That said we do need dates, and places for the USGP next
                      Message 10 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi Bruce

                        I for one am glad you have taken on the USGP. Congratulations on another
                        successful year.

                        That said we do need dates, and places for the USGP next year and we need
                        them now. Your series is the 400 pound gorilla that affects every other UCI
                        race in the USA. So far doing it on this list has been and is the best way
                        to get all the calendars together.

                        I would hazard a guess that the people in this forum are the only people on
                        the planet who have any ideal how complicated and difficult scheduling the
                        USGP is. It won't get any easier next year either because the sport is still
                        growing in a nice steady way.

                        Anyhow we don't have to be happy with your dates we just need them ASAP.
                        Can you get us at least a tentative schedule with alternates by Monday Dec
                        5th. That gives us 6 days before meeting at Natz to react.

                        Adam in my view is acting as a neutral broker in asking/begging you for
                        dates.


                        Tom McDaniel
                        Granogue Cross
















                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                        finasport1
                        Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 5:23 AM
                        To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates

                        Dear Adam:

                        Thanks for your mail. As the newly appointed US Representative for
                        Cross to the UCI I think you should remain neutral and supportive to
                        all here. I do not enjoy hearing you criticize the USGP both
                        privately and publicly all of the time, instead of directly to us or
                        me in a reasonable and professional manner. We are trying hard to
                        provide world class racing in the US. Between Geoff Proctor and
                        myself we have over 15 years of experience managing and, in Geoff's
                        case racing, at a World Cup and World Championship level. Not that
                        we are not above criticism, we are harsher on ourselves than anyone
                        else could be.

                        The recent results of Ryan Trebon are proof that what we are doing is
                        succeeding. He left the US after winning only 2 of the 4 USGPs he
                        raced and then was able to finish 9th in a UCI Cat 1 in Belgium this
                        past weekend. The class of US racing is getting better and better,
                        as you stated in your DVD "Transition," at a USGP last season.

                        I respect what each and every promoter is undertaking to organize a
                        race and we can go back in time, even you Adam, and thank guys like
                        Clark Natwick and Lyle Fulkerson, for paving our way for us. Those
                        guys really did the hardest work and put thier butts on the line for
                        the sport.

                        What the USGP needs is the support and patience of the cross
                        community to understand that what we are trying to do is
                        complicated. We are always playing with fire and there is no way to
                        do that in a communist open forum. If we do that, the whole thing
                        will certainly collapse. For instance, it was very hard to make a
                        decision to go to California and not to Highland Park. Craig
                        McCallan and Steve Litvin were nothing but professional to work with
                        and I think we still have a great relationship. They ran a great
                        race and I would go back there in a heartbeat with a USGP. That
                        said, from a national perspective we thought it would be a good idea
                        to try to have races in the Northern California. Now we cannot just
                        pick one, we have to find a way to get 2. The thinking behind that
                        when the series was founded in a conversation between myself and
                        Charles Pelkey at Monopoli, Italy, was that we need to make it
                        reasonable for riders to travel. Especially the Juniors and U 23,
                        but also those like Anne Knapp, who besides being the best woman in
                        US Cross History, works for a living and cannot fly around the
                        country each week.

                        So the point there is that we need to deal with peoples feelings and
                        emotions and this cannot be done in a public forum. Would you like
                        to get fired from a job in front of all your peers? Even if you were
                        great at what you do. But the company changed directions. Well
                        that is how we feel every day. Someone, will always damn us because
                        we cannot go everywhere and from the start, we thought 6 races over 3
                        weekends is enough.

                        So that is just number one on a long list of challenges. We are
                        taking into account the thought of each and every promoter and trying
                        to meld them together into a series. A huge challenge that Lyle
                        Fulkerson can probably attest to. And as a National Series, we are
                        striving to step up from the status of a great US race to that which
                        attracts more people to our sport to spectate. Cross is the best
                        discipline in Cycling for spectators. Maybe track can also be
                        interesting, I do not really know. But we are taking into account
                        things outside that might affect us, like other pro sports and other
                        local activities around each race. I can only say that I think it
                        is far more complicated than meets the eye.

                        While I also would like to be organized 2 years in advance it is also
                        not really reasonable for us with such a short history. Remember,
                        that the New England Series and the MAC have a head start. We are
                        growing and learning. And People like Tom Simpson are not going to
                        commit to a race or a date until they have at least had one year
                        under thier belt with a USGP. Also, you know yourself from your
                        experience in Worcester that it is hard to commit to a race so
                        early. Remember that your Worcester race was on the USGP calender
                        until you cancelled for lack of funding. To avoid the trials and
                        tribultations of that, we are doing our best to make sure we have
                        solid promoters. We do not want to have Super Cup surprises in
                        Septmeber. We have done everything we can to bend over backwards
                        with the USGP promoters to not push them until we at least understand
                        them and their challenges. This includes being patient to see what
                        they do with their races. After 2 seasons we now think that we can
                        start to offer each and every promoter more and more in the way of
                        best practices we have learned from the races around the country as
                        well as our European experience.

                        Ok, enough I think, as Myles said, that is my 2 cents. I appreciate
                        everyones effort to get this done and make it work. We would like to
                        do our part and we hope that at least some of you have gotten benefit
                        out of the USGP existing. Such as increased interest, or as Myles
                        mentioned increased racers at a weekend before or after a USGP in the
                        area.

                        Sincerely Your

                        Bruce



                        --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, Adam Hodges Myerson <adam@c...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Organizers,
                        >
                        > I think it's important to think back to why this group of US UCI
                        cyclo-cross
                        > organizers exists, and why there's a national cyclo-cross racing
                        calendar
                        > with healthy, stable, individual races across the country.
                        Essentially, it
                        > was a reaction to the lack of organization of the national series
                        at the
                        > time. The rest of us were organized, had our dates set a year in
                        advance
                        > with no problem, and were working together. As late as September,
                        the bomb
                        > of the SuperCup was regularly dropped on us, which left everyone
                        scrambling
                        > to get out of the way to save their own races.
                        >
                        > When the SuperCup went away, what was left? Again, a healthy,
                        stable, NRC of
                        > individual race organizers across the country. High level 'cross
                        didn't die,
                        > it blossomed with the room it head above its head.
                        >
                        > For the group of US organizers at this point, it's not reasonable
                        for the
                        > USGP to operate in a vacuum or to assume that all the other US UCI
                        > organizers should have to plan around it while it operates on a
                        different
                        > timetable than the rest of us. The USGP only exists because of the
                        work of
                        > individual promoters who were already organizing successful events.
                        How is
                        > it that we find ourselves once again in the situation where every
                        race in
                        > the country has its dates set other than the national series, when
                        it should
                        > be the other way around?
                        >
                        > The fact that we need to know our dates more than a year in advance
                        is not a
                        > negative; it's a reflection of the kind of organization necessary to
                        > organize a quality, stable event that's rooted and has support in
                        its
                        > community and the racing scene. Races should have stability,
                        history, and
                        > tradition, or should be working towards that. Yearly date changes
                        disrupt
                        > that, and have a ripple effect that disrupts the entire calendar.
                        If the
                        > USGP is supposed to set the standard, then it should be organized
                        better,
                        > and sooner, than all of the other US races.
                        >
                        > If the USGP needs to reconsider its dates, it needs to do so in an
                        open way
                        > that involves discussion with ALL the events on the NRC. It can't
                        operate as
                        > a wrecking ball like the SuperCup did. The scene is much too
                        unified now to
                        > allow that to take place.
                        >
                        > We've seen that the NW races have committed to their dates. We
                        haven't heard
                        > from California, but we have heard from Bruce that there needs to be
                        > geographical flow to the GP schedule. At the same time, we hear that
                        > Gloucester is getting pressured to go earlier.
                        >
                        > Logically, if the NW is set then I would expect the second race to
                        be in CA,
                        > and the finals to be in Gloucester. However, since Gloucester has
                        to go
                        > early, you'd expect it to perhaps be the first race in the series.
                        >
                        > My expectation would be that the GP would set it's dates, and
                        consider
                        > moving it's races around on those dates, so as not to disrupt the
                        schedule
                        > or operate at the expense of other race organizers who are
                        announcing their
                        > dates in good faith.
                        >
                        > I'm sympathetic to the pressure Gloucester is under right now. But
                        let's say
                        > they do move forward 2 weeks, to the 14/15 of October. First, that
                        could be
                        > possible, and they could swap with New Gloucester, ME for those
                        dates and
                        > maintain the flow of the calendar. But we've heard no discussion to
                        that
                        > effect yet, and we need to if this is a possible scenario.
                        >
                        > Second, moving forward will not address the risk of damage to the
                        course you
                        > wish to avoid. Anyone who was at Maine this year on the weekend
                        Gloucester
                        > is talking about moving to remembers it as the muddiest race we've
                        had all
                        > season so far. We had a week of rain in New England that didn't end
                        until
                        > Sunday. What would have happened if Gloucester was on that date
                        this year?
                        > Would you have to move to September?
                        >
                        > Everyone on this list, and every cyclo-cross rider in the US,
                        supports and
                        > wants to see a successful USGP, myself included. We need BOTH a
                        national
                        > racing calendar of events week in and week out, as well as a
                        national series
                        > that brings all the best riders together for a few select races.
                        Every
                        > organizer on this list is willing to be flexible, open, and
                        cooperative with
                        > the USGP to make sure that it's a success. But it needs to go both
                        ways, and
                        > we all need to be part of that process if it's going to go forward
                        in a
                        > successful way.
                        >
                        > Mike's e-mail was reasonable, in my opinion, and reflected what I
                        think many
                        > of us are feeling. We're all ready to go, and none of us want to
                        have our
                        > seats kicked out from under us.
                        >
                        > So Bruce, what I think we all need to hear is, what exactly are your
                        > desires, what are your limiters, and what are the possible
                        scenarios?
                        >
                        > Adam
                        >
                        >
                        > on 11/30/05 3:33 PM, finasport1 at finasport@a... wrote:
                        >
                        > > Dear Mike.
                        > >
                        > > I appreciate the situation and we are doing our best to get this
                        > > clarified. As you read from Paul, Gloucester does have issues
                        with
                        > > the date. We are also having issues, largely due to the fact that
                        > > the UCI needs dates set before the season even ends. That is
                        > > challenging to say the least. We would like to have the same
                        dates
                        > > every year, but as is the case for 2006 it looks like that might
                        not
                        > > be possible. There are so many different scenarios floating right
                        > > now that it is not even reasonable to explain them all.
                        > >
                        > > Other complaints that we faced this year that may or may not be
                        > > solvable are that teams such as TIAA CREF and last season, Maxxis
                        did
                        > > not appreciate that we were going coast to coast to coast this
                        > > season. They want their full support vehicles there and were
                        unable
                        > > to have that since it involved that travel.
                        > >
                        > > Not that this matters either, but from what I have heard there
                        will
                        > > be a change in the UCI points counting system that may make it
                        less
                        > > reasonable to have UCI races everywhere. Adam will have to fill
                        us
                        > > in. This may impact the decisions of promoters in the future but
                        I
                        > > am not clear as to how yet.
                        > >
                        > > Mike, I wish I could be more clear but until it is done, it is not
                        > > done. I am sorry for that. We will do our best.
                        > >
                        > > Bruce
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hebe" <mhebe@e...> wrote:
                        > >>
                        > >> Paul, Bruce, Geoff and my fellow UCI promoters
                        > >> I understand the desire to set a distinct date for an East Coast
                        > > USGP, that carries on, in case Gloucester may not be the choice at
                        > > some point. My concern as a promoter and as the Director of the
                        MAC
                        > > series is that a move in dates for 2006 will make both the New
                        > > England and the Mid-Atlantic UCI series revert back to the drawing
                        > > board, as it relates to scheduling.
                        > >> The impact of a date change from the last weekend in October will
                        > > directly impact no less than eight-ten other UCI events. As it
                        stands
                        > > now there are ZERO date conflicts for the UCI races on the East
                        > > Coast, sixteen in total. The NECCS & MAC series have worked
                        > > diligently to ensure this, while keeping dates open for Michigan &
                        > > NC. As promoters we have all went to great lengths to solidify our
                        > > dates for 2006, even earlier this year.
                        > >> Unless there is a date issue with the Gloucester venue, or
                        > > Gloucester will not be the USGP venue, I respectfully request
                        that NO
                        > > change in date be made for 2006. Any change in date could be
                        > > implemented in 2007. We are too close to the NATS promoter's
                        meeting
                        > > to ask promoters to go back to their respective venues and request
                        > > date changes.
                        > >> Thank you in advance for your consideration.
                        > >> Regards,
                        > >> Mike Hebe
                        > >> Race Director Lower Allen Classic UCI C2
                        > >> Director VERGE Mid-Atlantic Cyclocross series
                        > >>
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >








                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                      • Adam Hodges Myerson
                        Bruce, I have never said anything on this list, or to anyone in private conversation, that I have not also said to you personally, and in a reasonable and
                        Message 11 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Bruce,

                          I have never said anything on this list, or to anyone in private
                          conversation, that I have not also said to you personally, and in a
                          reasonable and professional manner.

                          I have also not held you to a different standard than I hold myself and
                          every other organizer on this list, when it could be argued that you should,
                          in fact, be held to a higher standard.

                          I stated clearly that I believe in the GP, I support it, and I want it to
                          succeed. You were the one who stepped up and took on the work that many of
                          us had only been talking about, and the work you, Paul, and Geoff have done
                          is appreciated by all of us. You will get support from every organizer on
                          this list, provided the GP doesn't happen at their expense.

                          I think Tom's e-mail summed things up very well, and so I ask again:

                          What exactly are your desires, what are your limiters, and what are the
                          possible scenarios?

                          Adam

                          on 12/1/05 5:23 AM, finasport1 at finasport@... wrote:

                          > Dear Adam:
                          >
                          > Thanks for your mail. As the newly appointed US Representative for
                          > Cross to the UCI I think you should remain neutral and supportive to
                          > all here. I do not enjoy hearing you criticize the USGP both
                          > privately and publicly all of the time, instead of directly to us or
                          > me in a reasonable and professional manner. We are trying hard to
                          > provide world class racing in the US. Between Geoff Proctor and
                          > myself we have over 15 years of experience managing and, in Geoff's
                          > case racing, at a World Cup and World Championship level. Not that
                          > we are not above criticism, we are harsher on ourselves than anyone
                          > else could be.
                          >
                          > The recent results of Ryan Trebon are proof that what we are doing is
                          > succeeding. He left the US after winning only 2 of the 4 USGPs he
                          > raced and then was able to finish 9th in a UCI Cat 1 in Belgium this
                          > past weekend. The class of US racing is getting better and better,
                          > as you stated in your DVD "Transition," at a USGP last season.
                          >
                          > I respect what each and every promoter is undertaking to organize a
                          > race and we can go back in time, even you Adam, and thank guys like
                          > Clark Natwick and Lyle Fulkerson, for paving our way for us. Those
                          > guys really did the hardest work and put thier butts on the line for
                          > the sport.
                          >
                          > What the USGP needs is the support and patience of the cross
                          > community to understand that what we are trying to do is
                          > complicated. We are always playing with fire and there is no way to
                          > do that in a communist open forum. If we do that, the whole thing
                          > will certainly collapse. For instance, it was very hard to make a
                          > decision to go to California and not to Highland Park. Craig
                          > McCallan and Steve Litvin were nothing but professional to work with
                          > and I think we still have a great relationship. They ran a great
                          > race and I would go back there in a heartbeat with a USGP. That
                          > said, from a national perspective we thought it would be a good idea
                          > to try to have races in the Northern California. Now we cannot just
                          > pick one, we have to find a way to get 2. The thinking behind that
                          > when the series was founded in a conversation between myself and
                          > Charles Pelkey at Monopoli, Italy, was that we need to make it
                          > reasonable for riders to travel. Especially the Juniors and U 23,
                          > but also those like Anne Knapp, who besides being the best woman in
                          > US Cross History, works for a living and cannot fly around the
                          > country each week.
                          >
                          > So the point there is that we need to deal with peoples feelings and
                          > emotions and this cannot be done in a public forum. Would you like
                          > to get fired from a job in front of all your peers? Even if you were
                          > great at what you do. But the company changed directions. Well
                          > that is how we feel every day. Someone, will always damn us because
                          > we cannot go everywhere and from the start, we thought 6 races over 3
                          > weekends is enough.
                          >
                          > So that is just number one on a long list of challenges. We are
                          > taking into account the thought of each and every promoter and trying
                          > to meld them together into a series. A huge challenge that Lyle
                          > Fulkerson can probably attest to. And as a National Series, we are
                          > striving to step up from the status of a great US race to that which
                          > attracts more people to our sport to spectate. Cross is the best
                          > discipline in Cycling for spectators. Maybe track can also be
                          > interesting, I do not really know. But we are taking into account
                          > things outside that might affect us, like other pro sports and other
                          > local activities around each race. I can only say that I think it
                          > is far more complicated than meets the eye.
                          >
                          > While I also would like to be organized 2 years in advance it is also
                          > not really reasonable for us with such a short history. Remember,
                          > that the New England Series and the MAC have a head start. We are
                          > growing and learning. And People like Tom Simpson are not going to
                          > commit to a race or a date until they have at least had one year
                          > under thier belt with a USGP. Also, you know yourself from your
                          > experience in Worcester that it is hard to commit to a race so
                          > early. Remember that your Worcester race was on the USGP calender
                          > until you cancelled for lack of funding. To avoid the trials and
                          > tribultations of that, we are doing our best to make sure we have
                          > solid promoters. We do not want to have Super Cup surprises in
                          > Septmeber. We have done everything we can to bend over backwards
                          > with the USGP promoters to not push them until we at least understand
                          > them and their challenges. This includes being patient to see what
                          > they do with their races. After 2 seasons we now think that we can
                          > start to offer each and every promoter more and more in the way of
                          > best practices we have learned from the races around the country as
                          > well as our European experience.
                          >
                          > Ok, enough I think, as Myles said, that is my 2 cents. I appreciate
                          > everyones effort to get this done and make it work. We would like to
                          > do our part and we hope that at least some of you have gotten benefit
                          > out of the USGP existing. Such as increased interest, or as Myles
                          > mentioned increased racers at a weekend before or after a USGP in the
                          > area.
                          >
                          > Sincerely Your
                          >
                          > Bruce
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, Adam Hodges Myerson <adam@c...> wrote:
                          >>
                          >> Organizers,
                          >>
                          >> I think it's important to think back to why this group of US UCI
                          > cyclo-cross
                          >> organizers exists, and why there's a national cyclo-cross racing
                          > calendar
                          >> with healthy, stable, individual races across the country.
                          > Essentially, it
                          >> was a reaction to the lack of organization of the national series
                          > at the
                          >> time. The rest of us were organized, had our dates set a year in
                          > advance
                          >> with no problem, and were working together. As late as September,
                          > the bomb
                          >> of the SuperCup was regularly dropped on us, which left everyone
                          > scrambling
                          >> to get out of the way to save their own races.
                          >>
                          >> When the SuperCup went away, what was left? Again, a healthy,
                          > stable, NRC of
                          >> individual race organizers across the country. High level 'cross
                          > didn't die,
                          >> it blossomed with the room it head above its head.
                          >>
                          >> For the group of US organizers at this point, it's not reasonable
                          > for the
                          >> USGP to operate in a vacuum or to assume that all the other US UCI
                          >> organizers should have to plan around it while it operates on a
                          > different
                          >> timetable than the rest of us. The USGP only exists because of the
                          > work of
                          >> individual promoters who were already organizing successful events.
                          > How is
                          >> it that we find ourselves once again in the situation where every
                          > race in
                          >> the country has its dates set other than the national series, when
                          > it should
                          >> be the other way around?
                          >>
                          >> The fact that we need to know our dates more than a year in advance
                          > is not a
                          >> negative; it's a reflection of the kind of organization necessary to
                          >> organize a quality, stable event that's rooted and has support in
                          > its
                          >> community and the racing scene. Races should have stability,
                          > history, and
                          >> tradition, or should be working towards that. Yearly date changes
                          > disrupt
                          >> that, and have a ripple effect that disrupts the entire calendar.
                          > If the
                          >> USGP is supposed to set the standard, then it should be organized
                          > better,
                          >> and sooner, than all of the other US races.
                          >>
                          >> If the USGP needs to reconsider its dates, it needs to do so in an
                          > open way
                          >> that involves discussion with ALL the events on the NRC. It can't
                          > operate as
                          >> a wrecking ball like the SuperCup did. The scene is much too
                          > unified now to
                          >> allow that to take place.
                          >>
                          >> We've seen that the NW races have committed to their dates. We
                          > haven't heard
                          >> from California, but we have heard from Bruce that there needs to be
                          >> geographical flow to the GP schedule. At the same time, we hear that
                          >> Gloucester is getting pressured to go earlier.
                          >>
                          >> Logically, if the NW is set then I would expect the second race to
                          > be in CA,
                          >> and the finals to be in Gloucester. However, since Gloucester has
                          > to go
                          >> early, you'd expect it to perhaps be the first race in the series.
                          >>
                          >> My expectation would be that the GP would set it's dates, and
                          > consider
                          >> moving it's races around on those dates, so as not to disrupt the
                          > schedule
                          >> or operate at the expense of other race organizers who are
                          > announcing their
                          >> dates in good faith.
                          >>
                          >> I'm sympathetic to the pressure Gloucester is under right now. But
                          > let's say
                          >> they do move forward 2 weeks, to the 14/15 of October. First, that
                          > could be
                          >> possible, and they could swap with New Gloucester, ME for those
                          > dates and
                          >> maintain the flow of the calendar. But we've heard no discussion to
                          > that
                          >> effect yet, and we need to if this is a possible scenario.
                          >>
                          >> Second, moving forward will not address the risk of damage to the
                          > course you
                          >> wish to avoid. Anyone who was at Maine this year on the weekend
                          > Gloucester
                          >> is talking about moving to remembers it as the muddiest race we've
                          > had all
                          >> season so far. We had a week of rain in New England that didn't end
                          > until
                          >> Sunday. What would have happened if Gloucester was on that date
                          > this year?
                          >> Would you have to move to September?
                          >>
                          >> Everyone on this list, and every cyclo-cross rider in the US,
                          > supports and
                          >> wants to see a successful USGP, myself included. We need BOTH a
                          > national
                          >> racing calendar of events week in and week out, as well as a
                          > national series
                          >> that brings all the best riders together for a few select races.
                          > Every
                          >> organizer on this list is willing to be flexible, open, and
                          > cooperative with
                          >> the USGP to make sure that it's a success. But it needs to go both
                          > ways, and
                          >> we all need to be part of that process if it's going to go forward
                          > in a
                          >> successful way.
                          >>
                          >> Mike's e-mail was reasonable, in my opinion, and reflected what I
                          > think many
                          >> of us are feeling. We're all ready to go, and none of us want to
                          > have our
                          >> seats kicked out from under us.
                          >>
                          >> So Bruce, what I think we all need to hear is, what exactly are your
                          >> desires, what are your limiters, and what are the possible
                          > scenarios?
                          >>
                          >> Adam
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> on 11/30/05 3:33 PM, finasport1 at finasport@a... wrote:
                          >>
                          >>> Dear Mike.
                          >>>
                          >>> I appreciate the situation and we are doing our best to get this
                          >>> clarified. As you read from Paul, Gloucester does have issues
                          > with
                          >>> the date. We are also having issues, largely due to the fact that
                          >>> the UCI needs dates set before the season even ends. That is
                          >>> challenging to say the least. We would like to have the same
                          > dates
                          >>> every year, but as is the case for 2006 it looks like that might
                          > not
                          >>> be possible. There are so many different scenarios floating right
                          >>> now that it is not even reasonable to explain them all.
                          >>>
                          >>> Other complaints that we faced this year that may or may not be
                          >>> solvable are that teams such as TIAA CREF and last season, Maxxis
                          > did
                          >>> not appreciate that we were going coast to coast to coast this
                          >>> season. They want their full support vehicles there and were
                          > unable
                          >>> to have that since it involved that travel.
                          >>>
                          >>> Not that this matters either, but from what I have heard there
                          > will
                          >>> be a change in the UCI points counting system that may make it
                          > less
                          >>> reasonable to have UCI races everywhere. Adam will have to fill
                          > us
                          >>> in. This may impact the decisions of promoters in the future but
                          > I
                          >>> am not clear as to how yet.
                          >>>
                          >>> Mike, I wish I could be more clear but until it is done, it is not
                          >>> done. I am sorry for that. We will do our best.
                          >>>
                          >>> Bruce
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hebe" <mhebe@e...> wrote:
                          >>>>
                          >>>> Paul, Bruce, Geoff and my fellow UCI promoters
                          >>>> I understand the desire to set a distinct date for an East Coast
                          >>> USGP, that carries on, in case Gloucester may not be the choice at
                          >>> some point. My concern as a promoter and as the Director of the
                          > MAC
                          >>> series is that a move in dates for 2006 will make both the New
                          >>> England and the Mid-Atlantic UCI series revert back to the drawing
                          >>> board, as it relates to scheduling.
                          >>>> The impact of a date change from the last weekend in October will
                          >>> directly impact no less than eight-ten other UCI events. As it
                          > stands
                          >>> now there are ZERO date conflicts for the UCI races on the East
                          >>> Coast, sixteen in total. The NECCS & MAC series have worked
                          >>> diligently to ensure this, while keeping dates open for Michigan &
                          >>> NC. As promoters we have all went to great lengths to solidify our
                          >>> dates for 2006, even earlier this year.
                          >>>> Unless there is a date issue with the Gloucester venue, or
                          >>> Gloucester will not be the USGP venue, I respectfully request
                          > that NO
                          >>> change in date be made for 2006. Any change in date could be
                          >>> implemented in 2007. We are too close to the NATS promoter's
                          > meeting
                          >>> to ask promoters to go back to their respective venues and request
                          >>> date changes.
                          >>>> Thank you in advance for your consideration.
                          >>>> Regards,
                          >>>> Mike Hebe
                          >>>> Race Director Lower Allen Classic UCI C2
                          >>>> Director VERGE Mid-Atlantic Cyclocross series
                          >>>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • myles romanow
                          I agree with Tom, and yet offer perhaps an alternate view?? It seems that many of us want to know WHEN/WHERE the USGP s are, so we can schedule our events. Or
                          Message 12 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
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                            I agree with Tom, and yet offer perhaps an alternate view??

                            It seems that many of us want to know WHEN/WHERE the USGP's are, so we can schedule our events.  Or get peice of mind..
                             
                            Now, let me just say, yes, We do need to know when and where the USGP's are, preferrably in a timely fashion (read before nats meeting/inscription time.)  It is the 400 lb gorilla blah blah blah. 
                             
                            Also for the record, I do think that Adam is playing mediator fairly well.  As a series co-ordinator and uci cross higher up type, perhaps some of his frustration does come out into forum. But to be fair, his frustrations are a result of a huge commitment to the sport... A commitment that many of us share, but again to be fair, I think he does shoulder a slightly higher burden than most of us.. ANYWAY back to my original point, which does lurk herein. 
                             
                            But..
                             
                            What effect will the usgp's REALLY have on us?  Let's be honest.  If an "unpleaseant" usgp schedule is handed out, what will really happen?  Will we descend into chaos changinh dates all over the place like a bunch of ninnies trying to accomplish ????     Will we cancel races because the 8 guys that travel to the GP's can't make our venues?  Will we then descend into bickering matches because "my race is bigger than your race" and I should get my pick of the dates??  Will races get cancelled because of it??  

                            Truly, I don't know.. Personally, I'd like to THINK that nothing would happen.. And from my encounters with most of the race organizer types out there that are all kind, mostly mature (hey it's bike racing) people, I am fairly certain of that..   But we all want to put on the best possible races, and I think that because of that we all have sort of the same motivation.. Get the most best racers to our venues, to attract the most marketing dollars. And have some fun.. Especially the fun. 
                             
                            GP guys.. I have to sympathize with them a little bit. They are in an unfortunate situation, in that whatever they do, they are bound to piss of somebody.  And when you factor in the cyclical repetitive nature of UCI race organization (they guys that do it do it year after year...) that's not good... Solutions?  Keep the schedule exactly the same all the time?  But that doesn't fly with Nationals moving around every 2 years.. Therefore the GP's should move to restore the balance of East-West.. And therefore someone is getting pissed off...
                             
                            Realistically I think the Gp's need to move to a known calendar.. Such as "4 west coast 2 east coast w east coast nationals.. for two years, then the opposite for the next two years...  It's not rocket science.. Also realistically, due to the effort put forth in scheduling the ne/ma race scene, I would expect the DATES of the gp's to be fairly constant, meaning plus or minus 1 week from what they were now.. So that means they could be the same time, week earlier, or week later then they were this year.  This allows for a change of venue, different promoters to get in on the action, blah blah blah.  It also allows for some semblance of plannign for purposes of Verge, etc.. Realistically I don't think its impossible for the GP people to contact organizers mid Nov to ask if they are interested in next years hosting.  Again I think the onus is on the GP guys to contact promoters and ask if they want the status, rather than the promoters killing each other to try and get it..

                            I'm off dayquil. I guess that's my 35 cents for the day..
                             
                            Myles
                             
                          • finasport1
                            First: To Tom. Thank you for your continued support. You have always been supportive of cross and everything that anyone has taken on to better the sport.
                            Message 13 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
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                              First: To Tom.

                              Thank you for your continued support. You have always been
                              supportive of cross and everything that anyone has taken on to better
                              the sport. While, as you say, we are in some way the 400 lb
                              Gorilla, we are not trying to throw that weight around recklessly.
                              We are simply trying to come to conclusions in a way that is correct
                              and sensitive to others feelings and ambitions. We are working
                              furiously to get our schedule done. We are speaking with 8-10
                              different promoters about events for next season but are narrowing it
                              down now. The challenge that I have spoken of is that we just
                              completed the series season and the folks in California have not even
                              settled thier books to decide whether they want to undertake another
                              USGP. Therefore it is tough for us to make that decision without
                              them.

                              In any case, we will be done hopefully by the end of the weekend.

                              To Adam. I appreciate your kind words. We have had our differences
                              but I would gladly put them behind us. I have simply heard from
                              various people around the US that you have predicted that we would
                              not be around much longer. Unless you know something I do not, then
                              you are mistaken. The USGP is stable and solvent and while some
                              people would like to see us do more and bigger, we have chosen a
                              conservative path to grow this that can be counted on for years to
                              come. Sponsorship is always hard to come by but that said, we do not
                              make promises we cannot keep and therefore we expect no September
                              surprises.

                              In any case, lets put this crap to and end and get on with it. We
                              are good to go, races are good, I think and hope US cross is
                              benefiting and we want to keep it going that way. This season,
                              every US GP set a record for attendance at thier race. Even as great
                              as Gloucester was and is, they exceeded expectations even in the snow!

                              Ok, we will get you everything we have, as soon as we have it.

                              Thanks again to all!

                              Bruce




                              --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, Adam Hodges Myerson <adam@c...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Bruce,
                              >
                              > I have never said anything on this list, or to anyone in private
                              > conversation, that I have not also said to you personally, and in a
                              > reasonable and professional manner.
                              >
                              > I have also not held you to a different standard than I hold myself
                              and
                              > every other organizer on this list, when it could be argued that
                              you should,
                              > in fact, be held to a higher standard.
                              >
                              > I stated clearly that I believe in the GP, I support it, and I want
                              it to
                              > succeed. You were the one who stepped up and took on the work that
                              many of
                              > us had only been talking about, and the work you, Paul, and Geoff
                              have done
                              > is appreciated by all of us. You will get support from every
                              organizer on
                              > this list, provided the GP doesn't happen at their expense.
                              >
                              > I think Tom's e-mail summed things up very well, and so I ask again:
                              >
                              > What exactly are your desires, what are your limiters, and what are
                              the
                              > possible scenarios?
                              >
                              > Adam
                              >
                              > on 12/1/05 5:23 AM, finasport1 at finasport@a... wrote:
                              >
                              > > Dear Adam:
                              > >
                              > > Thanks for your mail. As the newly appointed US Representative
                              for
                              > > Cross to the UCI I think you should remain neutral and supportive
                              to
                              > > all here. I do not enjoy hearing you criticize the USGP both
                              > > privately and publicly all of the time, instead of directly to us
                              or
                              > > me in a reasonable and professional manner. We are trying hard to
                              > > provide world class racing in the US. Between Geoff Proctor and
                              > > myself we have over 15 years of experience managing and, in
                              Geoff's
                              > > case racing, at a World Cup and World Championship level. Not
                              that
                              > > we are not above criticism, we are harsher on ourselves than
                              anyone
                              > > else could be.
                              > >
                              > > The recent results of Ryan Trebon are proof that what we are
                              doing is
                              > > succeeding. He left the US after winning only 2 of the 4 USGPs he
                              > > raced and then was able to finish 9th in a UCI Cat 1 in Belgium
                              this
                              > > past weekend. The class of US racing is getting better and
                              better,
                              > > as you stated in your DVD "Transition," at a USGP last season.
                              > >
                              > > I respect what each and every promoter is undertaking to organize
                              a
                              > > race and we can go back in time, even you Adam, and thank guys
                              like
                              > > Clark Natwick and Lyle Fulkerson, for paving our way for us.
                              Those
                              > > guys really did the hardest work and put thier butts on the line
                              for
                              > > the sport.
                              > >
                              > > What the USGP needs is the support and patience of the cross
                              > > community to understand that what we are trying to do is
                              > > complicated. We are always playing with fire and there is no way
                              to
                              > > do that in a communist open forum. If we do that, the whole thing
                              > > will certainly collapse. For instance, it was very hard to make a
                              > > decision to go to California and not to Highland Park. Craig
                              > > McCallan and Steve Litvin were nothing but professional to work
                              with
                              > > and I think we still have a great relationship. They ran a great
                              > > race and I would go back there in a heartbeat with a USGP. That
                              > > said, from a national perspective we thought it would be a good
                              idea
                              > > to try to have races in the Northern California. Now we cannot
                              just
                              > > pick one, we have to find a way to get 2. The thinking behind
                              that
                              > > when the series was founded in a conversation between myself and
                              > > Charles Pelkey at Monopoli, Italy, was that we need to make it
                              > > reasonable for riders to travel. Especially the Juniors and U 23,
                              > > but also those like Anne Knapp, who besides being the best woman
                              in
                              > > US Cross History, works for a living and cannot fly around the
                              > > country each week.
                              > >
                              > > So the point there is that we need to deal with peoples feelings
                              and
                              > > emotions and this cannot be done in a public forum. Would you
                              like
                              > > to get fired from a job in front of all your peers? Even if you
                              were
                              > > great at what you do. But the company changed directions. Well
                              > > that is how we feel every day. Someone, will always damn us
                              because
                              > > we cannot go everywhere and from the start, we thought 6 races
                              over 3
                              > > weekends is enough.
                              > >
                              > > So that is just number one on a long list of challenges. We are
                              > > taking into account the thought of each and every promoter and
                              trying
                              > > to meld them together into a series. A huge challenge that Lyle
                              > > Fulkerson can probably attest to. And as a National Series, we
                              are
                              > > striving to step up from the status of a great US race to that
                              which
                              > > attracts more people to our sport to spectate. Cross is the best
                              > > discipline in Cycling for spectators. Maybe track can also be
                              > > interesting, I do not really know. But we are taking into account
                              > > things outside that might affect us, like other pro sports and
                              other
                              > > local activities around each race. I can only say that I think
                              it
                              > > is far more complicated than meets the eye.
                              > >
                              > > While I also would like to be organized 2 years in advance it is
                              also
                              > > not really reasonable for us with such a short history. Remember,
                              > > that the New England Series and the MAC have a head start. We
                              are
                              > > growing and learning. And People like Tom Simpson are not going
                              to
                              > > commit to a race or a date until they have at least had one year
                              > > under thier belt with a USGP. Also, you know yourself from your
                              > > experience in Worcester that it is hard to commit to a race so
                              > > early. Remember that your Worcester race was on the USGP calender
                              > > until you cancelled for lack of funding. To avoid the trials and
                              > > tribultations of that, we are doing our best to make sure we have
                              > > solid promoters. We do not want to have Super Cup surprises in
                              > > Septmeber. We have done everything we can to bend over backwards
                              > > with the USGP promoters to not push them until we at least
                              understand
                              > > them and their challenges. This includes being patient to see
                              what
                              > > they do with their races. After 2 seasons we now think that we
                              can
                              > > start to offer each and every promoter more and more in the way of
                              > > best practices we have learned from the races around the country
                              as
                              > > well as our European experience.
                              > >
                              > > Ok, enough I think, as Myles said, that is my 2 cents. I
                              appreciate
                              > > everyones effort to get this done and make it work. We would
                              like to
                              > > do our part and we hope that at least some of you have gotten
                              benefit
                              > > out of the USGP existing. Such as increased interest, or as Myles
                              > > mentioned increased racers at a weekend before or after a USGP in
                              the
                              > > area.
                              > >
                              > > Sincerely Your
                              > >
                              > > Bruce
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, Adam Hodges Myerson <adam@c...>
                              wrote:
                              > >>
                              > >> Organizers,
                              > >>
                              > >> I think it's important to think back to why this group of US UCI
                              > > cyclo-cross
                              > >> organizers exists, and why there's a national cyclo-cross racing
                              > > calendar
                              > >> with healthy, stable, individual races across the country.
                              > > Essentially, it
                              > >> was a reaction to the lack of organization of the national series
                              > > at the
                              > >> time. The rest of us were organized, had our dates set a year in
                              > > advance
                              > >> with no problem, and were working together. As late as September,
                              > > the bomb
                              > >> of the SuperCup was regularly dropped on us, which left everyone
                              > > scrambling
                              > >> to get out of the way to save their own races.
                              > >>
                              > >> When the SuperCup went away, what was left? Again, a healthy,
                              > > stable, NRC of
                              > >> individual race organizers across the country. High level 'cross
                              > > didn't die,
                              > >> it blossomed with the room it head above its head.
                              > >>
                              > >> For the group of US organizers at this point, it's not reasonable
                              > > for the
                              > >> USGP to operate in a vacuum or to assume that all the other US
                              UCI
                              > >> organizers should have to plan around it while it operates on a
                              > > different
                              > >> timetable than the rest of us. The USGP only exists because of
                              the
                              > > work of
                              > >> individual promoters who were already organizing successful
                              events.
                              > > How is
                              > >> it that we find ourselves once again in the situation where every
                              > > race in
                              > >> the country has its dates set other than the national series,
                              when
                              > > it should
                              > >> be the other way around?
                              > >>
                              > >> The fact that we need to know our dates more than a year in
                              advance
                              > > is not a
                              > >> negative; it's a reflection of the kind of organization
                              necessary to
                              > >> organize a quality, stable event that's rooted and has support in
                              > > its
                              > >> community and the racing scene. Races should have stability,
                              > > history, and
                              > >> tradition, or should be working towards that. Yearly date changes
                              > > disrupt
                              > >> that, and have a ripple effect that disrupts the entire calendar.
                              > > If the
                              > >> USGP is supposed to set the standard, then it should be organized
                              > > better,
                              > >> and sooner, than all of the other US races.
                              > >>
                              > >> If the USGP needs to reconsider its dates, it needs to do so in
                              an
                              > > open way
                              > >> that involves discussion with ALL the events on the NRC. It can't
                              > > operate as
                              > >> a wrecking ball like the SuperCup did. The scene is much too
                              > > unified now to
                              > >> allow that to take place.
                              > >>
                              > >> We've seen that the NW races have committed to their dates. We
                              > > haven't heard
                              > >> from California, but we have heard from Bruce that there needs
                              to be
                              > >> geographical flow to the GP schedule. At the same time, we hear
                              that
                              > >> Gloucester is getting pressured to go earlier.
                              > >>
                              > >> Logically, if the NW is set then I would expect the second race
                              to
                              > > be in CA,
                              > >> and the finals to be in Gloucester. However, since Gloucester has
                              > > to go
                              > >> early, you'd expect it to perhaps be the first race in the
                              series.
                              > >>
                              > >> My expectation would be that the GP would set it's dates, and
                              > > consider
                              > >> moving it's races around on those dates, so as not to disrupt the
                              > > schedule
                              > >> or operate at the expense of other race organizers who are
                              > > announcing their
                              > >> dates in good faith.
                              > >>
                              > >> I'm sympathetic to the pressure Gloucester is under right now.
                              But
                              > > let's say
                              > >> they do move forward 2 weeks, to the 14/15 of October. First,
                              that
                              > > could be
                              > >> possible, and they could swap with New Gloucester, ME for those
                              > > dates and
                              > >> maintain the flow of the calendar. But we've heard no discussion
                              to
                              > > that
                              > >> effect yet, and we need to if this is a possible scenario.
                              > >>
                              > >> Second, moving forward will not address the risk of damage to the
                              > > course you
                              > >> wish to avoid. Anyone who was at Maine this year on the weekend
                              > > Gloucester
                              > >> is talking about moving to remembers it as the muddiest race
                              we've
                              > > had all
                              > >> season so far. We had a week of rain in New England that didn't
                              end
                              > > until
                              > >> Sunday. What would have happened if Gloucester was on that date
                              > > this year?
                              > >> Would you have to move to September?
                              > >>
                              > >> Everyone on this list, and every cyclo-cross rider in the US,
                              > > supports and
                              > >> wants to see a successful USGP, myself included. We need BOTH a
                              > > national
                              > >> racing calendar of events week in and week out, as well as a
                              > > national series
                              > >> that brings all the best riders together for a few select races.
                              > > Every
                              > >> organizer on this list is willing to be flexible, open, and
                              > > cooperative with
                              > >> the USGP to make sure that it's a success. But it needs to go
                              both
                              > > ways, and
                              > >> we all need to be part of that process if it's going to go
                              forward
                              > > in a
                              > >> successful way.
                              > >>
                              > >> Mike's e-mail was reasonable, in my opinion, and reflected what I
                              > > think many
                              > >> of us are feeling. We're all ready to go, and none of us want to
                              > > have our
                              > >> seats kicked out from under us.
                              > >>
                              > >> So Bruce, what I think we all need to hear is, what exactly are
                              your
                              > >> desires, what are your limiters, and what are the possible
                              > > scenarios?
                              > >>
                              > >> Adam
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >> on 11/30/05 3:33 PM, finasport1 at finasport@a... wrote:
                              > >>
                              > >>> Dear Mike.
                              > >>>
                              > >>> I appreciate the situation and we are doing our best to get this
                              > >>> clarified. As you read from Paul, Gloucester does have issues
                              > > with
                              > >>> the date. We are also having issues, largely due to the fact
                              that
                              > >>> the UCI needs dates set before the season even ends. That is
                              > >>> challenging to say the least. We would like to have the same
                              > > dates
                              > >>> every year, but as is the case for 2006 it looks like that might
                              > > not
                              > >>> be possible. There are so many different scenarios floating
                              right
                              > >>> now that it is not even reasonable to explain them all.
                              > >>>
                              > >>> Other complaints that we faced this year that may or may not be
                              > >>> solvable are that teams such as TIAA CREF and last season,
                              Maxxis
                              > > did
                              > >>> not appreciate that we were going coast to coast to coast this
                              > >>> season. They want their full support vehicles there and were
                              > > unable
                              > >>> to have that since it involved that travel.
                              > >>>
                              > >>> Not that this matters either, but from what I have heard there
                              > > will
                              > >>> be a change in the UCI points counting system that may make it
                              > > less
                              > >>> reasonable to have UCI races everywhere. Adam will have to fill
                              > > us
                              > >>> in. This may impact the decisions of promoters in the future
                              but
                              > > I
                              > >>> am not clear as to how yet.
                              > >>>
                              > >>> Mike, I wish I could be more clear but until it is done, it is
                              not
                              > >>> done. I am sorry for that. We will do our best.
                              > >>>
                              > >>> Bruce
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>> --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hebe" <mhebe@e...> wrote:
                              > >>>>
                              > >>>> Paul, Bruce, Geoff and my fellow UCI promoters
                              > >>>> I understand the desire to set a distinct date for an East
                              Coast
                              > >>> USGP, that carries on, in case Gloucester may not be the choice
                              at
                              > >>> some point. My concern as a promoter and as the Director of the
                              > > MAC
                              > >>> series is that a move in dates for 2006 will make both the New
                              > >>> England and the Mid-Atlantic UCI series revert back to the
                              drawing
                              > >>> board, as it relates to scheduling.
                              > >>>> The impact of a date change from the last weekend in October
                              will
                              > >>> directly impact no less than eight-ten other UCI events. As it
                              > > stands
                              > >>> now there are ZERO date conflicts for the UCI races on the East
                              > >>> Coast, sixteen in total. The NECCS & MAC series have worked
                              > >>> diligently to ensure this, while keeping dates open for
                              Michigan &
                              > >>> NC. As promoters we have all went to great lengths to solidify
                              our
                              > >>> dates for 2006, even earlier this year.
                              > >>>> Unless there is a date issue with the Gloucester venue, or
                              > >>> Gloucester will not be the USGP venue, I respectfully request
                              > > that NO
                              > >>> change in date be made for 2006. Any change in date could be
                              > >>> implemented in 2007. We are too close to the NATS promoter's
                              > > meeting
                              > >>> to ask promoters to go back to their respective venues and
                              request
                              > >>> date changes.
                              > >>>> Thank you in advance for your consideration.
                              > >>>> Regards,
                              > >>>> Mike Hebe
                              > >>>> Race Director Lower Allen Classic UCI C2
                              > >>>> Director VERGE Mid-Atlantic Cyclocross series
                              > >>>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • finasport1
                              Dear Myles Congrats on getting free of the Nyquil! It took me 2 years with Betty Ford to kick that habit. Thank you also for your thoughts and insights. You
                              Message 14 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Dear Myles

                                Congrats on getting free of the Nyquil! It took me 2 years with
                                Betty Ford to kick that habit.

                                Thank you also for your thoughts and insights. You are pretty much
                                spot on. The further challenge that we have is that there are not
                                just 2 regions in this country. There is Wisconson and Kansas City
                                and the Southeast and So Cal etc etc. So there is a lot of pissing
                                off possible. That said, we would love to settle on the sale dates
                                each year. There is no question of that. We are even working on
                                that this year and hope to accomplish that. The venues might move
                                around but we want to stay with those dates. We are trying our best.

                                Thanks
                                Bruce




                                --- In USAICO@yahoogroups.com, myles romanow <bikeguy11968@y...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > I agree with Tom, and yet offer perhaps an alternate view??
                                >
                                > It seems that many of us want to know WHEN/WHERE the USGP's are, so
                                we can schedule our events. Or get peice of mind..
                                >
                                > Now, let me just say, yes, We do need to know when and where the
                                USGP's are, preferrably in a timely fashion (read before nats
                                meeting/inscription time.) It is the 400 lb gorilla blah blah blah.
                                >
                                > Also for the record, I do think that Adam is playing mediator
                                fairly well. As a series co-ordinator and uci cross higher up type,
                                perhaps some of his frustration does come out into forum. But to be
                                fair, his frustrations are a result of a huge commitment to the
                                sport... A commitment that many of us share, but again to be fair, I
                                think he does shoulder a slightly higher burden than most of us..
                                ANYWAY back to my original point, which does lurk herein.
                                >
                                > But..
                                >
                                > What effect will the usgp's REALLY have on us? Let's be honest.
                                If an "unpleaseant" usgp schedule is handed out, what will really
                                happen? Will we descend into chaos changinh dates all over the place
                                like a bunch of ninnies trying to accomplish ???? Will we cancel
                                races because the 8 guys that travel to the GP's can't make our
                                venues? Will we then descend into bickering matches because "my race
                                is bigger than your race" and I should get my pick of the dates??
                                Will races get cancelled because of it??
                                >
                                > Truly, I don't know.. Personally, I'd like to THINK that nothing
                                would happen.. And from my encounters with most of the race organizer
                                types out there that are all kind, mostly mature (hey it's bike
                                racing) people, I am fairly certain of that.. But we all want to
                                put on the best possible races, and I think that because of that we
                                all have sort of the same motivation.. Get the most best racers to
                                our venues, to attract the most marketing dollars. And have some
                                fun.. Especially the fun.
                                >
                                > GP guys.. I have to sympathize with them a little bit. They are
                                in an unfortunate situation, in that whatever they do, they are bound
                                to piss of somebody. And when you factor in the cyclical repetitive
                                nature of UCI race organization (they guys that do it do it year
                                after year...) that's not good... Solutions? Keep the schedule
                                exactly the same all the time? But that doesn't fly with Nationals
                                moving around every 2 years.. Therefore the GP's should move to
                                restore the balance of East-West.. And therefore someone is getting
                                pissed off...
                                >
                                > Realistically I think the Gp's need to move to a known calendar..
                                Such as "4 west coast 2 east coast w east coast nationals.. for two
                                years, then the opposite for the next two years... It's not rocket
                                science.. Also realistically, due to the effort put forth in
                                scheduling the ne/ma race scene, I would expect the DATES of the gp's
                                to be fairly constant, meaning plus or minus 1 week from what they
                                were now.. So that means they could be the same time, week earlier,
                                or week later then they were this year. This allows for a change of
                                venue, different promoters to get in on the action, blah blah blah.
                                It also allows for some semblance of plannign for purposes of Verge,
                                etc.. Realistically I don't think its impossible for the GP people to
                                contact organizers mid Nov to ask if they are interested in next
                                years hosting. Again I think the onus is on the GP guys to contact
                                promoters and ask if they want the status, rather than the promoters
                                killing each other to try and get it..
                                >
                                > I'm off dayquil. I guess that's my 35 cents for the day..
                                >
                                > Myles
                                >
                              • Tim Hopkin
                                As the organizer of the North Carolina Grand Prix - UCI weekend that went up against the USGP on the west coast on November 19-20, I must say I was pleased
                                Message 15 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
                                • 0 Attachment

                                  As the organizer of the North Carolina Grand Prix – UCI weekend that went up against the USGP on the west coast on November 19-20, I must say I was pleased with the turn out of Elite racers in North Carolina.  We had 49 men on Saturday and 43 on Sunday, there were 12 Elite women on each day.  Was I nervous about having the event go up against a USGP, yes but being the optimist I believed that I was offering an east coast option that might entice riders looking for UCI points and cash.  Yes, the USGP did have all the stars but there were plenty of other top riders that came to NC and put on an excellent show with exciting racing both days.

                                   

                                  I think as others have said if we as promoters put on a quality event the riders will come and that should be our goal, great cross races.  If, we happen to be blessed to be chosen to be a part of the USGP wonderful.  I think the efforts by this group to not have UCI events on the same coast on the same weekend are probably even more valuable.  I appreciate the opportunity to offer UCI events in NC and not have them conflict with the MAC and New England races.  I look forward to meeting everyone in RI and putting some faces to the names.

                                   

                                  Tim Hopkin

                                  NC Cyclo-Cross Series / Winter Cup

                                  North Carolina Grand Prix

                                  828 697-4884

                                   

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of myles romanow
                                  Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:12 AM
                                  To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates

                                   

                                  I agree with Tom, and yet offer perhaps an alternate view??

                                  It seems that many of us want to know WHEN/WHERE the USGP's are, so we can schedule our events.  Or get peice of mind..

                                   

                                  Now, let me just say, yes, We do need to know when and where the USGP's are, preferrably in a timely fashion (read before nats meeting/inscription time.)  It is the 400 lb gorilla blah blah blah. 

                                   

                                  Also for the record, I do think that Adam is playing mediator fairly well.  As a series co-ordinator and uci cross higher up type, perhaps some of his frustration does come out into forum. But to be fair, his frustrations are a result of a huge commitment to the sport... A commitment that many of us share, but again to be fair, I think he does shoulder a slightly higher burden than most of us.. ANYWAY back to my original point, which does lurk herein. 

                                   

                                  But..

                                   

                                  What effect will the usgp's REALLY have on us?  Let's be honest.  If an "unpleaseant" usgp schedule is handed out, what will really happen?  Will we descend into chaos changinh dates all over the place like a bunch of ninnies trying to accomplish ????     Will we cancel races because the 8 guys that travel to the GP's can't make our venues?  Will we then descend into bickering matches because "my race is bigger than your race" and I should get my pick of the dates??  Will races get cancelled because of it??  

                                  Truly, I don't know.. Personally, I'd like to THINK that nothing would happen.. And from my encounters with most of the race organizer types out there that are all kind, mostly mature (hey it's bike racing) people, I am fairly certain of that..   But we all want to put on the best possible races, and I think that because of that we all have sort of the same motivation.. Get the most best racers to our venues, to attract the most marketing dollars. And have some fun.. Especially the fun. 

                                   

                                  GP guys.. I have to sympathize with them a little bit. They are in an unfortunate situation, in that whatever they do, they are bound to piss of somebody.  And when you factor in the cyclical repetitive nature of UCI race organization (they guys that do it do it year after year...) that's not good... Solutions?  Keep the schedule exactly the same all the time?  But that doesn't fly with Nationals moving around every 2 years.. Therefore the GP's should move to restore the balance of East-West.. And therefore someone is getting pissed off...

                                   

                                  Realistically I think the Gp's need to move to a known calendar.. Such as "4 west coast 2 east coast w east coast nationals.. for two years, then the opposite for the next two years...  It's not rocket science.. Also realistically, due to the effort put forth in scheduling the ne/ma race scene, I would expect the DATES of the gp's to be fairly constant, meaning plus or minus 1 week from what they were now.. So that means they could be the same time, week earlier, or week later then they were this year.  This allows for a change of venue, different promoters to get in on the action, blah blah blah.  It also allows for some semblance of plannign for purposes of Verge, etc.. Realistically I don't think its impossible for the GP people to contact organizers mid Nov to ask if they are interested in next years hosting.  Again I think the onus is on the GP guys to contact promoters and ask if they want the status, rather than the promoters killing each other to try and get it..

                                  I'm off dayquil. I guess that's my 35 cents for the day..

                                   

                                  Myles

                                   

                                   

                                • Adam Hodges Myerson
                                  ... I didn t get involved with this kind of thing in high school, and I don t intend to get involved in it now. I can imagine that when I heard rumors that the
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    on 12/1/05 11:09 AM, finasport1 at finasport@... wrote:

                                    > To Adam. I appreciate your kind words. We have had our differences
                                    > but I would gladly put them behind us. I have simply heard from
                                    > various people around the US that you have predicted that we would
                                    > not be around much longer. Unless you know something I do not, then
                                    > you are mistaken. The USGP is stable and solvent and while some
                                    > people would like to see us do more and bigger, we have chosen a
                                    > conservative path to grow this that can be counted on for years to
                                    > come. Sponsorship is always hard to come by but that said, we do not
                                    > make promises we cannot keep and therefore we expect no September
                                    > surprises.

                                    I didn't get involved with this kind of thing in high school, and I don't
                                    intend to get involved in it now.

                                    I can imagine that when I heard rumors that the GP was having a hard time
                                    maintaining sponsorship or getting new sponsors, I might have conjectured to
                                    someone that the GP wouldn't last in it's current format.

                                    Since I can't recall where I heard that from, or who I might have been
                                    conversing with, I would never have considered it something worth repeating,
                                    taking seriously, going to you with, or posting on this board.

                                    If something I may have posed as a question or concern based on conjecture
                                    in an off-hand conversation I don't even fully recall has now been amplified
                                    and come back to you as me predicting the downfall of the GP, I apologize
                                    for starting that ripple. That's not my position, nor is it my hope.

                                    I think I've established my reputation here as being open, up front, fair,
                                    and honest to a fault. My only agenda is good communication, good
                                    organization, respect and cooperation, with a professional US cyclo-cross
                                    circuit as the end goal.

                                    Adam
                                  • Rogers, Justin
                                    All, Usually I just read the streams of e-mail from the cross promoters and stay out of your way. You are the experts at what you do and I think you all should
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      All,

                                      Usually I just read the streams of e-mail from the cross promoters and
                                      stay out of your way. You are the experts at what you do and I think you
                                      all should be commended on your openness and willingness to discuss and
                                      plan. Not every discipline has a group like yours, it is pretty cool
                                      what you have here.

                                      That said, the arguments and the "he said, she said game" does nothing
                                      to get anyone closer to the goal of having a solid Cross Calendar for
                                      next year. You are all under a lot of pressure due to the timing of the
                                      season. The UCI inscription period is not easy to swallow when several
                                      of you are still in the process of preparing for and running your
                                      events. Please keep in mind, we all want the same thing, you may be from
                                      the East coast the West Coast the Mid-West or wherever but you are all
                                      people who love the spot and want to see it grow so lets keep this civil
                                      as we all prepare for the next season.


                                      Thank you for letting me add my two cents.




                                      Justin Rogers

                                      National Events Director

                                      USA Cycling, Inc.

                                      One Olympic Plaza

                                      Colorado Springs, CO 80909

                                      Phone: 719-866-3266

                                      Fax: 719-866-4628



                                      This message is intended only for the named recipient. If you are not
                                      the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying,
                                      distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this
                                      information is strictly prohibited.


                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                      Of Adam Hodges Myerson
                                      Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:32 AM
                                      To: USAICO
                                      Subject: Re: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates

                                      on 12/1/05 11:09 AM, finasport1 at finasport@... wrote:

                                      > To Adam. I appreciate your kind words. We have had our differences
                                      > but I would gladly put them behind us. I have simply heard from
                                      > various people around the US that you have predicted that we would not

                                      > be around much longer. Unless you know something I do not, then you
                                      > are mistaken. The USGP is stable and solvent and while some people
                                      > would like to see us do more and bigger, we have chosen a conservative

                                      > path to grow this that can be counted on for years to come.
                                      > Sponsorship is always hard to come by but that said, we do not make
                                      > promises we cannot keep and therefore we expect no September
                                      > surprises.

                                      I didn't get involved with this kind of thing in high school, and I
                                      don't intend to get involved in it now.

                                      I can imagine that when I heard rumors that the GP was having a hard
                                      time maintaining sponsorship or getting new sponsors, I might have
                                      conjectured to someone that the GP wouldn't last in it's current format.

                                      Since I can't recall where I heard that from, or who I might have been
                                      conversing with, I would never have considered it something worth
                                      repeating, taking seriously, going to you with, or posting on this
                                      board.

                                      If something I may have posed as a question or concern based on
                                      conjecture in an off-hand conversation I don't even fully recall has now
                                      been amplified and come back to you as me predicting the downfall of the
                                      GP, I apologize for starting that ripple. That's not my position, nor is
                                      it my hope.

                                      I think I've established my reputation here as being open, up front,
                                      fair, and honest to a fault. My only agenda is good communication, good
                                      organization, respect and cooperation, with a professional US
                                      cyclo-cross circuit as the end goal.

                                      Adam




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                                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    • Mike Hebe
                                      Justin, If you would bring copies of Inscription forms to Nats for the promoters meeting we could probably all fill them in there & get them in your hands at
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Justin,
                                        If you would bring copies of Inscription forms to Nats for the promoters
                                        meeting we could probably all fill them in there & get them in your hands at
                                        the same time.
                                        Just a thought.
                                        Mike Hebe

                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "Rogers, Justin" <jrogers@...>
                                        To: <USAICO@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 12:01 PM
                                        Subject: RE: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates


                                        > All,
                                        >
                                        > Usually I just read the streams of e-mail from the cross promoters and
                                        > stay out of your way. You are the experts at what you do and I think you
                                        > all should be commended on your openness and willingness to discuss and
                                        > plan. Not every discipline has a group like yours, it is pretty cool
                                        > what you have here.
                                        >
                                        > That said, the arguments and the "he said, she said game" does nothing
                                        > to get anyone closer to the goal of having a solid Cross Calendar for
                                        > next year. You are all under a lot of pressure due to the timing of the
                                        > season. The UCI inscription period is not easy to swallow when several
                                        > of you are still in the process of preparing for and running your
                                        > events. Please keep in mind, we all want the same thing, you may be from
                                        > the East coast the West Coast the Mid-West or wherever but you are all
                                        > people who love the spot and want to see it grow so lets keep this civil
                                        > as we all prepare for the next season.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Thank you for letting me add my two cents.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Justin Rogers
                                        >
                                        > National Events Director
                                        >
                                        > USA Cycling, Inc.
                                        >
                                        > One Olympic Plaza
                                        >
                                        > Colorado Springs, CO 80909
                                        >
                                        > Phone: 719-866-3266
                                        >
                                        > Fax: 719-866-4628
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > This message is intended only for the named recipient. If you are not
                                        > the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying,
                                        > distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this
                                        > information is strictly prohibited.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                        > Of Adam Hodges Myerson
                                        > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:32 AM
                                        > To: USAICO
                                        > Subject: Re: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates
                                        >
                                        > on 12/1/05 11:09 AM, finasport1 at finasport@... wrote:
                                        >
                                        >> To Adam. I appreciate your kind words. We have had our differences
                                        >> but I would gladly put them behind us. I have simply heard from
                                        >> various people around the US that you have predicted that we would not
                                        >
                                        >> be around much longer. Unless you know something I do not, then you
                                        >> are mistaken. The USGP is stable and solvent and while some people
                                        >> would like to see us do more and bigger, we have chosen a conservative
                                        >
                                        >> path to grow this that can be counted on for years to come.
                                        >> Sponsorship is always hard to come by but that said, we do not make
                                        >> promises we cannot keep and therefore we expect no September
                                        >> surprises.
                                        >
                                        > I didn't get involved with this kind of thing in high school, and I
                                        > don't intend to get involved in it now.
                                        >
                                        > I can imagine that when I heard rumors that the GP was having a hard
                                        > time maintaining sponsorship or getting new sponsors, I might have
                                        > conjectured to someone that the GP wouldn't last in it's current format.
                                        >
                                        > Since I can't recall where I heard that from, or who I might have been
                                        > conversing with, I would never have considered it something worth
                                        > repeating, taking seriously, going to you with, or posting on this
                                        > board.
                                        >
                                        > If something I may have posed as a question or concern based on
                                        > conjecture in an off-hand conversation I don't even fully recall has now
                                        > been amplified and come back to you as me predicting the downfall of the
                                        > GP, I apologize for starting that ripple. That's not my position, nor is
                                        > it my hope.
                                        >
                                        > I think I've established my reputation here as being open, up front,
                                        > fair, and honest to a fault. My only agenda is good communication, good
                                        > organization, respect and cooperation, with a professional US
                                        > cyclo-cross circuit as the end goal.
                                        >
                                        > Adam
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Rogers, Justin
                                        The UCI likes them returned electronically (easier to read when they are typed) but if anyone needs hard copies I can bring them along. Justin ... From:
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          The UCI likes them returned electronically (easier to read when they are
                                          typed) but if anyone needs hard copies I can bring them along.



                                          Justin


                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                          Of Mike Hebe
                                          Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 11:16 AM
                                          To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates

                                          Justin,
                                          If you would bring copies of Inscription forms to Nats for the promoters
                                          meeting we could probably all fill them in there & get them in your
                                          hands at the same time.
                                          Just a thought.
                                          Mike Hebe

                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "Rogers, Justin" <jrogers@...>
                                          To: <USAICO@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 12:01 PM
                                          Subject: RE: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates


                                          > All,
                                          >
                                          > Usually I just read the streams of e-mail from the cross promoters and
                                          > stay out of your way. You are the experts at what you do and I think
                                          you
                                          > all should be commended on your openness and willingness to discuss
                                          and
                                          > plan. Not every discipline has a group like yours, it is pretty cool
                                          > what you have here.
                                          >
                                          > That said, the arguments and the "he said, she said game" does nothing
                                          > to get anyone closer to the goal of having a solid Cross Calendar for
                                          > next year. You are all under a lot of pressure due to the timing of
                                          the
                                          > season. The UCI inscription period is not easy to swallow when several
                                          > of you are still in the process of preparing for and running your
                                          > events. Please keep in mind, we all want the same thing, you may be
                                          from
                                          > the East coast the West Coast the Mid-West or wherever but you are all
                                          > people who love the spot and want to see it grow so lets keep this
                                          civil
                                          > as we all prepare for the next season.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Thank you for letting me add my two cents.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Justin Rogers
                                          >
                                          > National Events Director
                                          >
                                          > USA Cycling, Inc.
                                          >
                                          > One Olympic Plaza
                                          >
                                          > Colorado Springs, CO 80909
                                          >
                                          > Phone: 719-866-3266
                                          >
                                          > Fax: 719-866-4628
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > This message is intended only for the named recipient. If you are not
                                          > the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying,
                                          > distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this
                                          > information is strictly prohibited.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                          > From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                          > Of Adam Hodges Myerson
                                          > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:32 AM
                                          > To: USAICO
                                          > Subject: Re: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates
                                          >
                                          > on 12/1/05 11:09 AM, finasport1 at finasport@... wrote:
                                          >
                                          >> To Adam. I appreciate your kind words. We have had our differences
                                          >> but I would gladly put them behind us. I have simply heard from
                                          >> various people around the US that you have predicted that we would
                                          not
                                          >
                                          >> be around much longer. Unless you know something I do not, then you
                                          >> are mistaken. The USGP is stable and solvent and while some people
                                          >> would like to see us do more and bigger, we have chosen a
                                          conservative
                                          >
                                          >> path to grow this that can be counted on for years to come.
                                          >> Sponsorship is always hard to come by but that said, we do not make
                                          >> promises we cannot keep and therefore we expect no September
                                          >> surprises.
                                          >
                                          > I didn't get involved with this kind of thing in high school, and I
                                          > don't intend to get involved in it now.
                                          >
                                          > I can imagine that when I heard rumors that the GP was having a hard
                                          > time maintaining sponsorship or getting new sponsors, I might have
                                          > conjectured to someone that the GP wouldn't last in it's current
                                          format.
                                          >
                                          > Since I can't recall where I heard that from, or who I might have been
                                          > conversing with, I would never have considered it something worth
                                          > repeating, taking seriously, going to you with, or posting on this
                                          > board.
                                          >
                                          > If something I may have posed as a question or concern based on
                                          > conjecture in an off-hand conversation I don't even fully recall has
                                          now
                                          > been amplified and come back to you as me predicting the downfall of
                                          the
                                          > GP, I apologize for starting that ripple. That's not my position, nor
                                          is
                                          > it my hope.
                                          >
                                          > I think I've established my reputation here as being open, up front,
                                          > fair, and honest to a fault. My only agenda is good communication,
                                          good
                                          > organization, respect and cooperation, with a professional US
                                          > cyclo-cross circuit as the end goal.
                                          >
                                          > Adam
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >





                                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        • Mike Hebe
                                          Can you send/resend the 06-07 inscription. I can not find an electronic copy. Thanks, Mike Hebe ... From: Rogers, Justin To:
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Can you send/resend the 06-07 inscription. I can not find an electronic
                                            copy.
                                            Thanks,
                                            Mike Hebe

                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: "Rogers, Justin" <jrogers@...>
                                            To: <USAICO@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 1:20 PM
                                            Subject: RE: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates


                                            > The UCI likes them returned electronically (easier to read when they are
                                            > typed) but if anyone needs hard copies I can bring them along.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Justin
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                            > From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                            > Of Mike Hebe
                                            > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 11:16 AM
                                            > To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: Re: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates
                                            >
                                            > Justin,
                                            > If you would bring copies of Inscription forms to Nats for the promoters
                                            > meeting we could probably all fill them in there & get them in your
                                            > hands at the same time.
                                            > Just a thought.
                                            > Mike Hebe
                                            >
                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > From: "Rogers, Justin" <jrogers@...>
                                            > To: <USAICO@yahoogroups.com>
                                            > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 12:01 PM
                                            > Subject: RE: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >> All,
                                            >>
                                            >> Usually I just read the streams of e-mail from the cross promoters and
                                            >> stay out of your way. You are the experts at what you do and I think
                                            > you
                                            >> all should be commended on your openness and willingness to discuss
                                            > and
                                            >> plan. Not every discipline has a group like yours, it is pretty cool
                                            >> what you have here.
                                            >>
                                            >> That said, the arguments and the "he said, she said game" does nothing
                                            >> to get anyone closer to the goal of having a solid Cross Calendar for
                                            >> next year. You are all under a lot of pressure due to the timing of
                                            > the
                                            >> season. The UCI inscription period is not easy to swallow when several
                                            >> of you are still in the process of preparing for and running your
                                            >> events. Please keep in mind, we all want the same thing, you may be
                                            > from
                                            >> the East coast the West Coast the Mid-West or wherever but you are all
                                            >> people who love the spot and want to see it grow so lets keep this
                                            > civil
                                            >> as we all prepare for the next season.
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >> Thank you for letting me add my two cents.
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >> Justin Rogers
                                            >>
                                            >> National Events Director
                                            >>
                                            >> USA Cycling, Inc.
                                            >>
                                            >> One Olympic Plaza
                                            >>
                                            >> Colorado Springs, CO 80909
                                            >>
                                            >> Phone: 719-866-3266
                                            >>
                                            >> Fax: 719-866-4628
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >> This message is intended only for the named recipient. If you are not
                                            >> the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying,
                                            >> distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this
                                            >> information is strictly prohibited.
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >> -----Original Message-----
                                            >> From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                            >> Of Adam Hodges Myerson
                                            >> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:32 AM
                                            >> To: USAICO
                                            >> Subject: Re: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates
                                            >>
                                            >> on 12/1/05 11:09 AM, finasport1 at finasport@... wrote:
                                            >>
                                            >>> To Adam. I appreciate your kind words. We have had our differences
                                            >>> but I would gladly put them behind us. I have simply heard from
                                            >>> various people around the US that you have predicted that we would
                                            > not
                                            >>
                                            >>> be around much longer. Unless you know something I do not, then you
                                            >>> are mistaken. The USGP is stable and solvent and while some people
                                            >>> would like to see us do more and bigger, we have chosen a
                                            > conservative
                                            >>
                                            >>> path to grow this that can be counted on for years to come.
                                            >>> Sponsorship is always hard to come by but that said, we do not make
                                            >>> promises we cannot keep and therefore we expect no September
                                            >>> surprises.
                                            >>
                                            >> I didn't get involved with this kind of thing in high school, and I
                                            >> don't intend to get involved in it now.
                                            >>
                                            >> I can imagine that when I heard rumors that the GP was having a hard
                                            >> time maintaining sponsorship or getting new sponsors, I might have
                                            >> conjectured to someone that the GP wouldn't last in it's current
                                            > format.
                                            >>
                                            >> Since I can't recall where I heard that from, or who I might have been
                                            >> conversing with, I would never have considered it something worth
                                            >> repeating, taking seriously, going to you with, or posting on this
                                            >> board.
                                            >>
                                            >> If something I may have posed as a question or concern based on
                                            >> conjecture in an off-hand conversation I don't even fully recall has
                                            > now
                                            >> been amplified and come back to you as me predicting the downfall of
                                            > the
                                            >> GP, I apologize for starting that ripple. That's not my position, nor
                                            > is
                                            >> it my hope.
                                            >>
                                            >> I think I've established my reputation here as being open, up front,
                                            >> fair, and honest to a fault. My only agenda is good communication,
                                            > good
                                            >> organization, respect and cooperation, with a professional US
                                            >> cyclo-cross circuit as the end goal.
                                            >>
                                            >> Adam
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • Rogers, Justin
                                            All, Here are the electronic Inscription forms for 06-07. Please let me know if there is anything I can help with. Best regards, Justin Rogers National Events
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Dec 1, 2005
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              All,

                                              Here are the electronic Inscription forms for 06-07.

                                              Please let me know if there is anything I can help with.


                                              Best regards,







                                              Justin Rogers

                                              National Events Director

                                              USA Cycling, Inc.

                                              One Olympic Plaza

                                              Colorado Springs, CO 80909

                                              Phone: 719-866-3266

                                              Fax: 719-866-4628



                                              This message is intended only for the named recipient. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.


                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hebe
                                              Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 11:31 AM
                                              To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates

                                              Can you send/resend the 06-07 inscription. I can not find an electronic copy.
                                              Thanks,
                                              Mike Hebe

                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: "Rogers, Justin" <jrogers@...>
                                              To: <USAICO@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 1:20 PM
                                              Subject: RE: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates


                                              > The UCI likes them returned electronically (easier to read when they are
                                              > typed) but if anyone needs hard copies I can bring them along.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Justin
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                              > From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                              > Of Mike Hebe
                                              > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 11:16 AM
                                              > To: USAICO@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: Re: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates
                                              >
                                              > Justin,
                                              > If you would bring copies of Inscription forms to Nats for the promoters
                                              > meeting we could probably all fill them in there & get them in your
                                              > hands at the same time.
                                              > Just a thought.
                                              > Mike Hebe
                                              >
                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > From: "Rogers, Justin" <jrogers@...>
                                              > To: <USAICO@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 12:01 PM
                                              > Subject: RE: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >> All,
                                              >>
                                              >> Usually I just read the streams of e-mail from the cross promoters and
                                              >> stay out of your way. You are the experts at what you do and I think
                                              > you
                                              >> all should be commended on your openness and willingness to discuss
                                              > and
                                              >> plan. Not every discipline has a group like yours, it is pretty cool
                                              >> what you have here.
                                              >>
                                              >> That said, the arguments and the "he said, she said game" does nothing
                                              >> to get anyone closer to the goal of having a solid Cross Calendar for
                                              >> next year. You are all under a lot of pressure due to the timing of
                                              > the
                                              >> season. The UCI inscription period is not easy to swallow when several
                                              >> of you are still in the process of preparing for and running your
                                              >> events. Please keep in mind, we all want the same thing, you may be
                                              > from
                                              >> the East coast the West Coast the Mid-West or wherever but you are all
                                              >> people who love the spot and want to see it grow so lets keep this
                                              > civil
                                              >> as we all prepare for the next season.
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> Thank you for letting me add my two cents.
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> Justin Rogers
                                              >>
                                              >> National Events Director
                                              >>
                                              >> USA Cycling, Inc.
                                              >>
                                              >> One Olympic Plaza
                                              >>
                                              >> Colorado Springs, CO 80909
                                              >>
                                              >> Phone: 719-866-3266
                                              >>
                                              >> Fax: 719-866-4628
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> This message is intended only for the named recipient. If you are not
                                              >> the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying,
                                              >> distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this
                                              >> information is strictly prohibited.
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> -----Original Message-----
                                              >> From: USAICO@yahoogroups.com [mailto:USAICO@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                              >> Of Adam Hodges Myerson
                                              >> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:32 AM
                                              >> To: USAICO
                                              >> Subject: Re: [USAICO] Re: Gloucester USGP dates
                                              >>
                                              >> on 12/1/05 11:09 AM, finasport1 at finasport@... wrote:
                                              >>
                                              >>> To Adam. I appreciate your kind words. We have had our differences
                                              >>> but I would gladly put them behind us. I have simply heard from
                                              >>> various people around the US that you have predicted that we would
                                              > not
                                              >>
                                              >>> be around much longer. Unless you know something I do not, then you
                                              >>> are mistaken. The USGP is stable and solvent and while some people
                                              >>> would like to see us do more and bigger, we have chosen a
                                              > conservative
                                              >>
                                              >>> path to grow this that can be counted on for years to come.
                                              >>> Sponsorship is always hard to come by but that said, we do not make
                                              >>> promises we cannot keep and therefore we expect no September
                                              >>> surprises.
                                              >>
                                              >> I didn't get involved with this kind of thing in high school, and I
                                              >> don't intend to get involved in it now.
                                              >>
                                              >> I can imagine that when I heard rumors that the GP was having a hard
                                              >> time maintaining sponsorship or getting new sponsors, I might have
                                              >> conjectured to someone that the GP wouldn't last in it's current
                                              > format.
                                              >>
                                              >> Since I can't recall where I heard that from, or who I might have been
                                              >> conversing with, I would never have considered it something worth
                                              >> repeating, taking seriously, going to you with, or posting on this
                                              >> board.
                                              >>
                                              >> If something I may have posed as a question or concern based on
                                              >> conjecture in an off-hand conversation I don't even fully recall has
                                              > now
                                              >> been amplified and come back to you as me predicting the downfall of
                                              > the
                                              >> GP, I apologize for starting that ripple. That's not my position, nor
                                              > is
                                              >> it my hope.
                                              >>
                                              >> I think I've established my reputation here as being open, up front,
                                              >> fair, and honest to a fault. My only agenda is good communication,
                                              > good
                                              >> organization, respect and cooperation, with a professional US
                                              >> cyclo-cross circuit as the end goal.
                                              >>
                                              >> Adam
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >





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